[Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

(Thread IKs: dead gay comedy forums)

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm only two chapters in but I'm really enjoying "The A B C of Communism" by Bukharin and Preobrazhensky as a high-level overview/summary of Marxist economic theory. Big recommend for anyone looking to find something to read in this space.

I really like Preobrazhensky because he is one of the very first modern Marxist economists (or economic theoretician depending where you look at). It's really a leap of perspective when you read something like this after at the tail-end of an econ course (like I have)

Preobrazhensky, "Taxation in Russia" posted:

[...]
Those raising these objections have either reasoned falsely or else are simply stupid. For in reality taking for granted that in Moscow the monthly revenue from the increase in fares, the industrial and other taxes are 30 milliard roubels, that the merchants, artisans and others shift the taxes on the consumers by increasing prices who, then, are these consumers? On the one hand workers and clerical employees, on the other hand, however, the artisans, peasants, dealers and speculators, the remains of the bourgeoisie, in short, the petty-bourgeois elements. Assuming that half the taxes will be shifted to the shoulders of the working-class and the other half upon the non-proletarians, what is the result? The half, i.e. 15 milliards, that fall on the shoulders of the working-class must be replaced by the Soviet government; the other half, however, represents the net revenue of the government. The Soviet government is not in the least concerned as to how the bourgeois elements shift this burden from one group to the other. Its task is only the following: approximately ascertaining in what degree the taxes burden the workers and clerical employees and raising their wages to correspond. When we consider that the workers are a minority of the consumers in the entire population, we find that the net revenue greatly exceeds the sum that the State has to repay to the working-class.

The work of the Soviet government in the near future will consist of a further systematic increase in taxation especially upon luxuries an retail enterprises (delicatessens in the Tverskaia) that cater exclusively to the needs of the bourgeoisie. The working-class, whose indignation is aroused at the sight of all these caf�s, florists and confectioners, as well as by the enormous profits of the traders and speculators, must support the government�s taxation policy with all the means in its power. For if we permitted unrestricted trade � and no one even thinks of abolishing it � we still are able to keep the profits of the traders and speculators in the entire country down to a minimum. This power is exercised in an unfeeling taxation of all non-State enterprises and in the privileges extended to the working part of the population. The working-class can but greet each new tax. It must see to it that the government replaces the losses that arise from the resulting increase of prices. In its turn, the Soviet government considers this compensation as its primary duty.

In no way do we overestimate the role of these taxes in our budget, but anyone who will lake the trouble to make the necessary calculations will come to the conclusion that, in the coming year, we will be able to cover 10% of the revenue that we are at present deriving from the issue of paper money. That means that, in our attempt to establish a firm foreign exchange, we will be able by means of taxation, either to reduce the emission of notes by 10% or increase our expenditures for production by the same amount.
[...]

this is a savvy idea. So, to summarize, taxes upon the proletariat were always to be budgeted into immediate and direct returns of use (a railway tax is immediately levied into the railway), whereas the state revenue was to be obtained from taxes upon conspicuous consumption, tariffs (including export tariffs which is an incredible move), speculation, superfluous commerce, etc.

he is absolutely one of the guys to read on matters of practical marxism and economics imho

# ? Dec 6, 2021 17:12

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:24

MLSM: Apr 3, 2021; by Azathoth

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm only two chapters in but I'm really enjoying "The A B C of Communism" by Bukharin and Preobrazhensky as a high-level overview/summary of Marxist economic theory. Big recommend for anyone looking to find something to read in this space.

The chapter on religion is exceptionally great.

# ? Dec 6, 2021 17:25

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

dead gay comedy forums posted:

I really like Preobrazhensky because he is one of the very first modern Marxist economists (or economic theoretician depending where you look at). It's really a leap of perspective when you read something like this after at the tail-end of an econ course (like I have)

this is a savvy idea. So, to summarize, taxes upon the proletariat were always to be budgeted into immediate and direct returns of use (a railway tax is immediately levied into the railway), whereas the state revenue was to be obtained from taxes upon conspicuous consumption, tariffs (including export tariffs which is an incredible move), speculation, superfluous commerce, etc.

he is absolutely one of the guys to read on matters of practical marxism and economics imho

It basically explains the mindset at least in part of the present-day PRC.

# ? Dec 6, 2021 17:49

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

Truga posted:

lmfao internet is so stupid

Yes

# ? Dec 6, 2021 20:55

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

Irish minister for finance just reviewed pikettys new book for the irish times and didn't like it???

Paywalled but some of you have them doohickeys that let you read this trash anyway

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...ction-1.4732380

# ? Dec 7, 2021 02:59

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

hello everyone

# ? Dec 7, 2021 03:33

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

quote:

Finally, a number of moral considerations are brought into the argument against us. - We are told that we form our judgments like the savage Hottentots. The Hottentot says: "When I steal my neighbour's wife, it is good; when he steals my wife, it is bad." The bolsheviks, it is contended, resemble these savages, for they say: "When the bourgeoisie uses force to crush the proletariat, it is bad; but when the proletariat uses force to crush the bourgeoisie, it is good."

Those who argue thus, do not know what they are talking about. In the case of the Hottentots we are concerned with two equal individuals who are stealing one another's wives for identical reasons. But the proletariat and the bourgeoisie are not on equal terms. Proletarians comprise an enormous class, bourgeois form a comparatively small group. The proletariat is fighting for the liberation of all mankind ; but the bourgeoisie is fighting for the maintenance of oppression, wars, exploitation. The proletariat is fighting for communism, the bourgeoisie for the preservation of capitalism. If capitalism and communism were one and the same thing, then the bourgeoisie and the proletariat could be compared to the two Hottentots. The proletariat is fighting solely on behalf of the new social order. Whatever helps in the struggle is good; whatever hinders, is bad.

gently caress yeah dude

# ? Dec 7, 2021 10:26

tokin opposition: Apr 8, 2021; I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

GalacticAcid posted:

hello everyone

# ? Dec 7, 2021 10:38

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

# ? Dec 7, 2021 10:41

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

lmfao

# ? Dec 7, 2021 16:57

Lady Militant: Apr 8, 2020; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

Southpaugh posted:

Irish minister for finance just reviewed pikettys new book for the irish times and didn't like it???

Paywalled but some of you have them doohickeys that let you read this trash anyway

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...ction-1.4732380

i still cannot believe piketty can't pay attention long enough to read m&e. im one of the c-spam white noise posters who says poo poo like "i googled red alert 3 hentai" and iv loving read it holy poo poo

# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:14

Lady Militant: Apr 8, 2020; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

GalacticAcid posted:

hello everyone

hi!!!

# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:14

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

https://twitter.com/peakcapitolism/status/1468402900745523202

# ? Dec 8, 2021 03:21

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

why does Stalin, the largest Bolshevik, not simply eat the others?

# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:58

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

vyelkin posted:

why does Stalin, the largest Bolshevik, not simply eat the others?

Whatever else may be said of Stalin, he was most certainly not the largest Bolshevik

# ? Dec 8, 2021 05:15

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

largest bolshevik left standing

# ? Dec 8, 2021 05:33

wynott dunn: Aug 9, 2006; What is to be done?

Who or what can challenge, and stand a chance at beating, the corporate juggernauts dominating the world?

Raskolnikov38 posted:

largest bolshevik left standing

# ? Dec 8, 2021 06:40

tokin opposition: Apr 8, 2021; I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

the capitalist unbirths the labor of the worker for his own gain

# ? Dec 8, 2021 11:08

MLSM: Apr 3, 2021; by Azathoth

Raskolnikov38 posted:

largest bolshevik left standing

# ? Dec 8, 2021 11:30

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Raskolnikov38 posted:

largest bolshevik left standing

Man reality tv has gone off the rails

# ? Dec 8, 2021 11:52

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

Yond Yezhov has a lean and hungry look: he thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.

# ? Dec 8, 2021 16:19

LittleBlackCloud: Mar 5, 2007; xXI love Plum JuiceXx

Deified Data posted:

tbh it sucks that twitter has made it so whenever someone says they're ML I have to check if they mean ML or fash with a displaced Stalin fetish, and I say this as someone with a Stalin fetish

in CPUSA we have had several encounters with something called "patriotic socialists" which I think is like the Infrared thing. Or maybe just larouchites? Also join CPUSA.

# ? Dec 8, 2021 18:36

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

LittleBlackCloud posted:

in CPUSA we have had several encounters with something called "patriotic socialists" which I think is like the Infrared thing. Or maybe just larouchites? Also join CPUSA.

parenti style patriotism or nazi style?

# ? Dec 8, 2021 21:18

hot witch divorcee: Jan 4, 2021; is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

Torpor posted:

parenti style patriotism or nazi style?

its nazbol poo poo basically

haz in particular unironically believing in the trad alpha poo poo

# ? Dec 8, 2021 21:41

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

oppa nazi style

# ? Dec 8, 2021 21:44

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

LittleBlackCloud posted:

in CPUSA we have had several encounters with something called "patriotic socialists" which I think is like the Infrared thing. Or maybe just larouchites? Also join CPUSA.

Yeah they're definitely infrared guys, also caleb maupin but he's basically a wannabe larouch anyway so yes

Torpor posted:

parenti style patriotism or nazi style?

They have 2 modes, evoking Superpatriotism when they're looking to make friends and Tucker Carlson any time the subject of imperialism, settler colonialism, and the concept of humans that aren't lily-white, straight, and cis present themselves. Made fast friends with all the British TERF weirdos who were just biding their time for a "socially conservative socialism" moment that has not come and never will. I feel like literally all of these guys exist only on Twitter. Peter Coffin thought this would be the right vehicle for them so that should really tell you everything you need to know lmao

# ? Dec 8, 2021 21:45

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

GalacticAcid posted:

oppa nazi style

# ? Dec 8, 2021 21:46

MeatwadIsGod: Sep 30, 2004; Foretold by Gyromancy

# ? Dec 9, 2021 01:34

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

LittleBlackCloud posted:

in CPUSA we have had several encounters with something called "patriotic socialists" which I think is like the Infrared thing. Or maybe just larouchites? Also join CPUSA.

The racist socialist tendency is so odd. Htory shows it's political suicide (strasserism nazbol, more recently twp) but the dumbest intellectuals keep trying to revive it.

They're practically asking to get Long Knife'd.

# ? Dec 9, 2021 01:49

MLSM: Apr 3, 2021; by Azathoth

LittleBlackCloud posted:

Also join CPUSA.

They�re notoriously full of cops. Join PSL instead if you feel the need to join a party.

# ? Dec 9, 2021 07:11

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Dreddout posted:

The racist socialist tendency is so odd. Htory shows it's political suicide (strasserism nazbol, more recently twp) but the dumbest intellectuals keep trying to revive it.

They're practically asking to get Long Knife'd.

it's pretty much the evangelical christian / jesus camp version (with american flaghumping characteristics) of the left-cathbol ideology that had 12 guys on twitter professing it in 2017-2018

# ? Dec 9, 2021 07:36

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-cathbol ideology that had 12 guys on twitter professing it in 2017-2018

Are those the Tradinistas

# ? Dec 9, 2021 08:02

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

If I wanted to join a party to tell me to vote for the democrats I'd just join the DSA

# ? Dec 9, 2021 08:29

tokin opposition: Apr 8, 2021; I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

lenin would want me to join, and vote for, the GOP

# ? Dec 9, 2021 08:36

Lyndon LaRouche: Sep 5, 2006; by Azathoth

Mr. Lobe posted:

If I wanted to join a party to tell me to vote for the democrats I'd just join the DSA

tokin opposition posted:

lenin would want me to join, and vote for, the GOP

# ? Dec 9, 2021 10:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

tokin opposition posted:

lenin would want me to join, and vote for, the GOP

wrong leader

https://twitter.com/HenryKrinkIe/status/949738042625052672

# ? Dec 9, 2021 10:22

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

The notion of cops being in CPUSA doesn't really bother me - if anything it's almost a point of pride if true lol. "We're the org big enough for them to bother infiltrating" (which probably isn't true, I'm sure cops are everywhere)

Their notion of a broad base unity against fascism is pretty dumb as A) they seem to think the GOP is uniquely bad, and B) they don't understand that unity is impossible if the people you're unifying with (democrats) would prefer fascism to communism anyway

My main gripe with CPUSA right now is they've got some pretty agreeable statements out there supporting stuff like decolonization and denouncing chauvinism, which is fine, but it seems like every member I come across has a different idea of what this means if they don't just outright disagree with it. Everyone seems to have had the same idea of "let's join CPUSA and drag them in our direction" with the chauvinists being the most recent effort. No one seems to respect their program and everyone wants to influence a new one.

I don't know I'd really like to join an org but every time I psych myself up to look at CPUSA I find another thing that disappoints me

# ? Dec 9, 2021 17:17

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

Deified Data posted:

My main gripe with CPUSA right now is they've got some pretty agreeable statements out there supporting stuff like decolonization and denouncing chauvinism, which is fine, but it seems like every member I come across has a different idea of what this means if they don't just outright disagree with it. Everyone seems to have had the same idea of "let's join CPUSA and drag them in our direction" with the chauvinists being the most recent effort. No one seems to respect their program and everyone wants to influence a new one.

i won't say anyone should join cpusa, but i think it's a good sign when an org is a site of struggle and people are joining it to change it for the better, assuming it actually has structures where members can see themselves as part of a collective that makes decisions about What To Do, instead of yet another avenue of individual self-expression.

no one can be a communist all by themselves. even joining a reading group is a step up from complete isolation.

# ? Dec 9, 2021 17:52

Pentecoastal Elites: Feb 27, 2007

the one thing I think CPUSA has going for it is that it's going to be harder for liberals to appropriate the word "communism" than it will be, or has been, for them with "socialism"

# ? Dec 9, 2021 18:01

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:24

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

it�s always so weird that if you are fan of a sports team you expect them to keep training and work hard to figure out their problems and be the best, even if they just won a championship there is still progress that can be made.

if you are a fan of your country it doesn�t need to do poo poo and is the best even though it doesn�t rank anywhere in anything, or do anything particularly well, and this is doubly true if the country just royally screwed the pooch.

# ? Dec 9, 2021 18:03

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