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I sure hope Vulpes somehow scripts in Ben F. somehow dumped into the modern world, polishing his glasses while huffing up a vape storm of weed
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Dec 15, 2021 16:17
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Binary Badger posted:I sure hope Vulpes somehow scripts in Ben F. somehow dumped into the modern world, polishing his glasses while huffing up a vape storm of weed He's sort of already there. Franklin's ghost was a surprisingly major supporting character in Duggan and Posehn's Deadpool. Comics!
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Dec 15, 2021 21:02
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The ghost of Benjamin Franklin also appears in the film How High when the protagonists find Benjamin Franklin's prototype bong in the Harvard archives. I believe this makes How High part of the Marvel Extended Universe.OnimaruXLR posted:Clea as sorceror supreme is cool, but is there some rule now that says everybody has to wear Steven's pajamas if they take over his job?
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Dec 15, 2021 21:36
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I read Secret Wars. Wasn't crazy about it. The stuff in the first issue where the Ultimate Marvel Universe and the real Marvel universe went to war seemed way more fun and interesting than the god Doom stuff. I guess all the potentially entertaining stuff about the Battleworld is in the side stories? Still seems a bad move to have this wild setting where every country is themed around a different superhero or villain, and then set the whole story in just one of those countries. And was the whole thing really just to end the Ultimate Universe except for Miles Morales? Does anyone other than Reed even know what happened? Are the characters still the same characters in some way? like, the people who weren't in the rafts when the two universes destroyed each other, is there any continuity for them between the old multiverse and the new multiverse? Or are they all new people recreated in the image of the people of the old multiverse? Do they have the same souls?
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Dec 15, 2021 22:59
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They also fixed Doom’s face for a while, leading to Infamous Iron Man. Everyone is still pretty much the same, and hardly anyone remembers. Cosmic beings know this is the 8th universe, pre SW being the 7th. Al Ewing’s current Defenders run is exploring the old universes. This weeks issue took place in the fourth. Secret Wars had a ton of good tie ins. None of them are necessary for the larger narrative, but they’re all a lot of fun. Thors, Runaways, Siege, Infinity Gauntlet, E is for Extinction, 1872, Battleworld, Master of Kung Fu, Starlord and Kitty Pryde, X-Men ‘92, and plenty more are worth reading. And the Last Days books like Silver Surfer, The Mighty Avengers, and Ms. Marvel were all good books taking place during the last incursion. Secret Wars was a whole mood. The one event that didn’t feel like a slog, and people were excited for the tie ins after getting over the initial idea that all the Marvel books were being interrupted.
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Dec 15, 2021 23:46
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Gripweed posted:Does anyone other than Reed even know what happened? The Richards family and the Future Foundation do and judging from the end Doom too. I feel like Johnny Storm and the Thing do but then they're not in the scene where Reed and Franklin are making new universes and they got shoved back to Earth so maybe not? As far as other characters:
As for continuity, that's a sticky wicket where people seem to remember just enough to suit whatever writer's writing a book at a time. Like for example Kamala Khan's first face-to-face interaction with Carol Danvers was in one of her Last Days issues but after SW they don't have another introduction, which implies that Kamala and Carol still met near the end of the world... and I guess they just remember the world not ending then? Captain America and Iron Man haven't ever mentioned beating the poo poo out of each other at the end of the universe, but Stark and Reed's Dyson sphere space station they made during the lead up to SW is still floating around as a plot element in the current X-Men series. It's all a very "don't think about it too much" situation. The rest of your questions are almost more philosophical. Like at this point basically every character in Marvel has died at least once, and they almost always come back in new bodies instead of popping back in to their old corpses, whether it's a cloned body or them just stepping out of a portal or some poo poo. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 00:14
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Secret Wars is just kind of a Doom story about what he would do with ultimate power, and it turns out that even though his intentions were good and he did in fact save some universes, he's still got a huge complex regarding Reed. The tie ins are all mostly fun though.
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Dec 16, 2021 00:26
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I also read Secret Wars and Ewing's Ultimates series recently and one big thing I took away from the narrative was that ultimately the larger implications of the story in a cohesive fictional universe were only meaningful as commentary on the joke of trying to view Marvel comics as one coherent story. Or you know, it's just a show, I should really just relax.
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Dec 16, 2021 00:54
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TwoPair posted:The rest of your questions are almost more philosophical. Like at this point basically every character in Marvel has died at least once, and they almost always come back in new bodies instead of popping back in to their old corpses, whether it's a cloned body or them just stepping out of a portal or some poo poo. But it is established that there is an afterlife in universe 616. So a new body isn't an issue as long as it's the same soul. But presumably the afterlife was also destroyed along with the universe. Or at least I assume it was, because there are multiple characters who can enter the afterlife at will and could simply have hidden people there until they were able to figure out another plan. So if everyone's physical bodies were destroyed, and the afterlife was destroyed, what if anything of the person pre-Secret Wars exists in the new multiverse? Also, does the new multiverse have bad universe? Universes that are full of death and suffering like the Marvel Zombies Universe or the cancerverse? And if so, has Reed ever faced the moral implications of creating universes based off a child's whim?
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Dec 16, 2021 01:12
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Come to think of it, there are multiple characters who have pull in Hell. Has there ever been a story where someone was like, "you need to lay low for awhile. Don't worry, I've got a place no one will look for you" and they stash them in a safehouse in hell? Surely Dr. Strange or Puck or that sword lady from the X-Men must've done something like that at some point.
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Dec 16, 2021 04:02
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Gripweed posted:Come to think of it, there are multiple characters who have pull in Hell. Has there ever been a story where someone was like, "you need to lay low for awhile. Don't worry, I've got a place no one will look for you" and they stash them in a safehouse in hell? Surely Dr. Strange or Puck or that sword lady from the X-Men must've done something like that at some point. Apparently during the X-Men vs. Inhumans period, half of the X-Men did operate out of Limbo with the help of Magik, as it was the safest place from the Terrigen clouds.
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Dec 16, 2021 04:20
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glitchwraith posted:Apparently during the X-Men vs. Inhumans period, half of the X-Men did operate out of Limbo with the help of Magik, as it was the safest place from the Terrigen clouds. That owns. I didn't follow that event, who won?
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Dec 16, 2021 04:51
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Gripweed posted:Also, does the new multiverse have bad universe? Universes that are full of death and suffering like the Marvel Zombies Universe or the cancerverse? And if so, has Reed ever faced the moral implications of creating universes based off a child's whim? Yeah it does and no Reed hasn't. It's one thing that's given me a small chuckle like "Wow Franklin Richards is hosed up". But hey cut the kid some slack, when you're creating a multiverse worth of worlds, there's only so many variations of "and everyone lived happily ever after" you can do.
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Dec 16, 2021 05:03
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Gripweed posted:That owns. I didn't follow that event, who won? Nobody. It was bad.
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Dec 16, 2021 05:13
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Gripweed posted:That owns. I didn't follow that event, who won? No one, classic hero vs. hero Like right near the end Queen Medusa is informed that Terrigen mists are killing mutants and are on the verge of dispersing across the planet and therefore killing all mutants. Nobody ever told her that part before, because as is the case with most modern X-Men media, Hank Goddamned McCoy hosed up*. So after she is told Medusa decides to render the gas inert using some sci-fi doodad Moon Girl and Forge whipped up. But then, as is custom with hero v. hero fights, they unite against another faction, which in this case is Emma Frost. The big reveal is that Cyclops died very early on, before anyone knew the gas was poison to mutants, but Emma was so pissed she engineered this whole plan to kill all Inhumans as retribution and when she's found out she busts out a bunch of loving Sentinels she's reprogrammed and everybody, the X-Men included, are like "Emma what the gently caress?" So they beat her and Emma goes into hiding, then shortly after the Inhumans show bombed hard and Disney bought Fox so hey let's just forget that whole thing and bury the Inhumans entirely, then Emma came back and no one discussed it again. *okay tbf to the mutants/Hank, Medusa already knew the cloud was toxic but they weren't destroying the clouds because the terrigen is sacred to Inhuman culture and they were performing operations to get mutants out of the way of the cloud (because it's a fuckin big green cloud and not hard to track) and thought that was a good enough fix until a better option a la a mutant vaccine or something. It's only after it's discovered that the cloud is dispersing that Hank keeps it to himself like a loving idiot. e: VVV not anymore, mutants cured death TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 05:37
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Cyclops is dead?
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Dec 16, 2021 05:51
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Gripweed posted:Cyclops is dead? Get a load of Ben Urich over here.
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Dec 16, 2021 05:57
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TwoPair posted:(I'm sure I've forgotten someone but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.)
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Dec 16, 2021 06:08
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The timeline here was: 2005: House of M ends with the Scarlet Witch declaring "No More Mutants", which was justified by then-EiC Joe Quesada as an attempt to put "a genie back in the bottle" (similar to undoing 'everyone is one big happy family' with Civil War, and getting rid of Married Spider-Man) where there are a too many mutants in comics. I believe at least some people speculated at the time that it was also a workaround to avoid letting Fox get the rights to any new characters introduced as mutants thanks to the very broad right granted by the old lovely X-Men movie contract. While Iron Man the movie was still a few years out, Marvel Studios was developing it (and the idea of a Marvel Studios Universe) by the time House of M was published, so it's entirely possible. Some people also speculate Marvel is going to "write out" the X-Men, though they were still publishing countless X-Books. 2012: Marvel Comics runs the Avengers vs. X-Men event, which undoes the "No More Mutants" thing and new mutant characters start appearing again. 2013: In the Marvel "Infinity" event, Black Bolt blows up the Terrigen chambers and a bunch of characters with Inhuman ancestors start developing powers, most famously Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel. This is clearly an attempt to provide an alternate origin story for new characters that might otherwise have been mutants, and people again speculate that Marvel is going to "write out" the X-Men, despite Marvel putting out a shitload of X-Books. 2014: Marvel Comics is really pushing the Inhumans, with several books spinning out of Infinity. Marvel Studios announces that an Inhumans movie is going to be part of "Phase Three", with a tentative release date of 2018. People are still speculating that Marvel is going to replace the X-Men with Inhumans, despite them publishing dozens of X-Books a month in comparison to 3-5 Inhumans books in any given month. 2015: Marvel Studios starts introducing Inhumans on the Agents of SHIELD show. Marvel Comics publishes the Secret Wars mega-event, which yet again is seen as where they're going to write out of the X-Men. Secret Wars tie-in series include Star-Lord & Kitty Pryde, Age of Apocalypse, two Deadpool series, E is For Extinction, House of M, Old Man Logan, X-Men '92, X-Tinction Agenda, Years of Future Past, and several other series featuring X-Men. The Inhumans get a single Secret Wars tie-in mini-series. 2016: Marvel Studios takes the Inhumans movie off the schedule and announces it will be a television series. Coming out of Secret Wars, Marvel announces four Inhumans books (two team books + Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl) and more than twice as many X-Books. This is where the M-Pox stuff where the aforementioned Terrigen Mists are killing mutants plotline comes in, and people believe this is now definitely the time they're going to write out the X-Men. In late 2016, the "Inhumans vs. X-Men" mini-series/event launches. 2017: In March of 2017 Marvel Comics wraps up the "X-Men are dying from Terrigen Mists" story at the end of IvX. The "ResurrXion" follow-up launched a bunch of new titles for both families, again with more X-Books than Inhumans books. Over at Marvel Studios, Inhumans debuts on ABC in September 2017, running through early November. It is not well received. In December 2017 there is a formal announcement about Disney pursuing the purchase of various Fox division. 2018: In May, ABC officially cancels the Inhumans television series. Cyclops came back from the dead in complicated ways prior to House of X/Powers of X, though it's true he also died in House of X and was resurrected on Krakoa too.
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Dec 16, 2021 06:41
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Anyone else gets whiplash from the new hulk series going from "the hulk alters are all a family who are trying to protect Bruce" to "SPACESHIP HULK WITH ABUSIVE BRUCE BANNER!"
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Dec 16, 2021 07:05
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Edge & Christian posted:
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Dec 16, 2021 10:32
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Edge & Christian posted:2018: In May, ABC officially cancels the Inhumans television series. Also 2018: Wolverine's claws get really hot. coincidence???
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Dec 16, 2021 10:59
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if you do a board with red string about marvel conspiracies, the central node always has to be HOT CLAWS!?
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Dec 16, 2021 13:13
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Siegkrow posted:Anyone else gets whiplash from the new hulk series going from "the hulk alters are all a family who are trying to protect Bruce" to "SPACESHIP HULK WITH ABUSIVE BRUCE BANNER!" I ain't reading that poo poo, lmao
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Dec 16, 2021 14:13
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I mean...it's all well and good to try and deduce editorial intent solely through clinical numbers-crunching and, y'know what? at the end of the day that probably does give the best insight into business decisions. But it also largely ignores the context of the stuff that's inside these books, which is what most readers will end up paying attention to, which is probably what led them to these impressions about the so-called Inhumans push/X-Men censure. I don't think we can discount the fact that there was a very large Inhumans push. These were nobody characters from a nothing franchise who were thrust very quickly into the forefront of stories, teams, team-ups, and major events, with new appearances in print, cartoons, and live-action shows. If you were like me and just generally couldn't care less about these characters, well, let me tell you that it was very noticeable no matter where you looked. And...why, really? As we know, it certainly wasn't because they were printing money left and right. But just because there wasn't an attempt to have them personally headline as many books as Deadpool or Wolverine doesn't mean that they didn't suddenly feel very crammed into the Marvel universe, and often in ways that felt very artificial, very mandated. And this isn't an impression you'd easily get if you just went off of raw numbers. In the meantime, let's be very real that the X-Men books that were out there sucked so hard. It's certainly a stretch to imagine that Marvel might've intentionally mandated for the X-line to put out awful books for years on end when good ol' incompetence would account for the same result, but would it be as outrageous to suggest that the X-books might not have been at the top of their creative or artistic priority list for at least some time for some reason or another, at least not with the same sort of driven passion that put Inhuman after Inhuman in new books and shows every other month? That on an editorial level, the general mindset might been that, well, they could just churn out as many dozens of X-titles a month as long as people kept scooping them up, without actually caring so much about what it is they actually put in these books other than to swap around the team rosters once in a while, put a different color or adjective on the title, and then call it a day? And I feel like we can say this even more confidently nowadays that we've seen the fruits of what happens when Marvel does put in the least bit of effort they could into this franchise; the difference is frankly mind-boggling. And that's not even talking about the content that they did end up putting into the X-books, which was nonstop stories about the mutants losing and losing and dying and losing again and again to the point that this became an actual point of contention to be rectified by the time Hickman rolled in. While the Inhumans were up-and-rising royalty to be sidled-up next to Iron Man and Captain Marvel, the X-Men got turned into literal lepers scrounging for scraps on whatever deserted island or abandoned military base that would house them, and you can not understate the sort of impression that this leaves on the audience and the setting at large; these books practically felt like they were written so that X-Men fans felt bad about being X-Men fans after reading them. Whether or this could possibly have been editorially-mandated, much less all the way on down from Perlmutter himself, is not something anyone could truly guess at, but either way it still didn't feel like an issue that anyone in charge seemed particularly interested in addressing for a very good long while. It might not have been that they were trying to get rid of their X-Men, which would be a crazy notion considering the amount of books that line could carry, but that maybe nobody in the offices was particularly incentivized to give these books the creative and artistic energy that they needed, in spite of the huge followings that they had. And there's really only a finite amount of reasons why that could've been. Again, these are things that cold hard numbers couldn't really tell us, but that become uncomfortably credible when we look inside the pages. The amount of books on the shelf only tell one half of the story; there are other contexts that give other impressions.
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Dec 16, 2021 14:16
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:if you do a board with red string about marvel conspiracies, the central node always has to be HOT CLAWS!? If I remember right, hot claws came along after Aaron introduced the idea of Phoenixverine, so I assume someone was just saw that and went "Hm, what if just hot claws though?"
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Dec 16, 2021 14:20
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Hot claws was just a misunderstanding after some writers were overheard discussing sexy Santa.
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Dec 16, 2021 15:13
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Lobok posted:Hot claws was just a misunderstanding after some writers were overheard discussing sexy Santa. Have we ever seen Santa Claus and Logan in the same room, though? 
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Dec 16, 2021 15:15
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OnimaruXLR posted:If I remember right, hot claws came along after Aaron introduced the idea of Phoenixverine, so I assume someone was just saw that and went "Hm, what if just hot claws though?"
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Dec 16, 2021 15:20
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BrianWilly posted:In the meantime, let's be very real that the X-Men books that were out there sucked so hard. It's certainly a stretch to imagine that Marvel might've intentionally mandated for the X-line to put out awful books for years on end when good ol' incompetence would account for the same result, but would it be as outrageous to suggest that the X-books might not have been at the top of their creative or artistic priority list for at least some time for some reason or another, at least not with the same sort of driven passion that put Inhuman after Inhuman in new books and shows every other month? I dunno man, no matter how you wanna theorize, the X-Men have never been unpopular (well okay except back from they were first introduced and people didn't really care for them that much) and no matter what push they're giving other characters, it's extremely tinfoil hat-y to suggest that they were intentionally putting bad creators on X-books and/or not trying to make good X-stuff. quote:I don't think we can discount the fact that there was a very large Inhumans push. These were nobody characters from a nothing franchise who were thrust very quickly into the forefront of stories, teams, team-ups, and major events, with new appearances in print, cartoons, and live-action shows. Honestly that's why I liked a lot of the Inhuman books. Aside from them just being good in general, they were actually introducing new characters to the world. Comic fans constantly bemoan the lack of innovation in the Big 2 but every time they get new characters (especially new heroes) they tend to flop because people just don't give them enough of a shot. Like, I like a lot of the Krakoa stuff in X-Men, but at the end of the day a whole lot of it is the same ol characters that we've seen for the past 40something years in a new setting. (tbf, they've introduced a lot of new characters via the Arakko mutants but there's been so little focus on them I don't see many sticking around to become big fan faves) tl;dr Inhumans were good and I want them to get a push again. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 15:22
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JordanKai posted:Have we ever seen Santa Claus and Logan in the same room, though? They do both come from Canada... Which makes me wonder, has Santa ever tangoed with Alpha Flight?
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Dec 16, 2021 15:27
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JordanKai posted:Have we ever seen Santa Claus and Logan in the same room, though? Don't be ridiculous, if Logan was Santa, kids would leave out a beer instead of milk and cookies
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Dec 16, 2021 15:30
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BrianWilly posted:I mean...it's all well and good to try and deduce editorial intent solely through clinical numbers-crunching and, y'know what? at the end of the day that probably does give the best insight into business decisions. But it also largely ignores the context of the stuff that's inside these books, which is what most readers will end up paying attention to, which is probably what led them to these impressions about the so-called Inhumans push/X-Men censure. quote:In the meantime, let's be very real that the X-Men books that were out there sucked so hard. It's certainly a stretch to imagine that Marvel might've intentionally mandated for the X-line to put out awful books for years on end when good ol' incompetence would account for the same result, but would it be as outrageous to suggest that the X-books might not have been at the top of their creative or artistic priority list for at least some time for some reason or another, at least not with the same sort of driven passion that put Inhuman after Inhuman in new books and shows every other month? Donny Cates is making bad Hulk comics as we speak, and I don't think it's part of a plan to eliminate the Hulk because they can't get the titular movie rights back from Universal. quote:That on an editorial level, the general mindset might been that, well, they could just churn out as many dozens of X-titles a month as long as people kept scooping them up, without actually caring so much about what it is they actually put in these books other than to swap around the team rosters once in a while, put a different color or adjective on the title, and then call it a day? And I feel like we can say this even more confidently nowadays that we've seen the fruits of what happens when Marvel does put in the least bit of effort they could into this franchise; the difference is frankly mind-boggling. quote:And that's not even talking about the content that they did end up putting into the X-books, which was nonstop stories about the mutants losing and losing and dying and losing again and again to the point that this became an actual point of contention to be rectified by the time Hickman rolled in. While the Inhumans were up-and-rising royalty to be sidled-up next to Iron Man and Captain Marvel, the X-Men got turned into literal lepers scrounging for scraps on whatever deserted island or abandoned military base that would house them, and you can not understate the sort of impression that this leaves on the audience and the setting at large; these books practically felt like they were written so that X-Men fans felt bad about being X-Men fans after reading them. There were some definite, concrete, and ultimately meaningless things where -- allegedly at the direction of Perlmutter -- the X-Men (and Fantastic Four, and Monica Rambeau?) were edited off of "vintage" t-shirts in favor of characters like Doctor Strange, Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Iron Fist. which is about the strongest concrete proof of any sort of erasure. There was also the period where there was no Fantastic Four book, which did seem like an actual "this isn't making us any money in film or comics, ditch it for now" move. Marvel Comics made a lot of money on X-Men books before, during, and after the period where people believe they were being depushed/written off. Fantastic Four didn't, so they actually stopped making the comic, not just (in the eyes of fans) pushing out a bunch of lovely Fantastic Four comics they didn't try hard enough on. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 15:46
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They had the Fantastic Four availability removed (unless you had already unlocked the characters) from video games like Marvel Heroes too, which was really weird at the time.
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Dec 16, 2021 15:59
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BrianWilly posted:Again, these are things that cold hard numbers couldn't really tell us, but that become uncomfortably credible when we look inside the pages. The amount of books on the shelf only tell one half of the story; there are other contexts that give other impressions. Related, I'd heard somewhere at some point that the Heroes Reborn event was to include an aborted/nixed before it could get rolling plan to split mutants off into their own universe. Is there anything to that or is it just dumb internet speculation? JordanKai posted:Have we ever seen Santa Claus and Logan in the same room, though? I'm the best there is at what I do...and what I do is reward the nice
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Dec 16, 2021 18:46
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TwoPair posted:Don't be ridiculous, if Logan was Santa, kids would leave out a beer instead of milk and cookies In Australia they leave out beer, Ireland they do Guinness, the UK leaves out sherry.
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Dec 16, 2021 19:03
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getting through the US as fast as possible to get to the good countries who actually put out something Santa wants to drink
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Dec 16, 2021 19:10
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site posted:getting through the US as fast as possible to get to the good countries who actually put out something Santa wants to drink There's a bunch of places that leave out food for his reindeer or horses (some places he has horses).
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Dec 16, 2021 19:12
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Skwirl posted:In Australia they leave out beer, Ireland they do Guinness, the UK leaves out sherry. drat Santa's way cooler than I thought
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Dec 16, 2021 19:16
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Skwirl posted:There's a bunch of places that leave out food for his reindeer or horses (some places he has horses). I'd hate to be a parent in one of those countries and have to eat a bite of the hay so my kids think Santa's horses were there
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Dec 16, 2021 19:17
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