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Idk that kinda felt like the show got hijacked.
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Dec 16, 2021 06:25
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RatHat posted:So is Jack just a relatively harmless tax avoider who happens to be really good at swordfighting then? Who's also super chill about being a patsy.
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Dec 16, 2021 06:25
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It was pretty clear early on that he was a red herring But I do agree that the whole opening plot thing from the first episode with the death of that one guy just kind of got dropped for most of the series.
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Dec 16, 2021 06:29
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RatHat posted:So is Jack just a relatively harmless tax avoider who happens to be really good at swordfighting then? I wonder how much of the evidence was just there to frame him, as he claimed. Honestly, I still think that should have been Paul F Tompkins in the role, though. I wonder if he really is the Swordsman and he'll end up being Kate's trainer as the stinger for the next adventures of New Hawkeye
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Dec 16, 2021 08:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:But I do agree that the whole opening plot thing from the first episode with the death of that one guy just kind of got dropped for most of the series. I dunno - they do bring it quite a lot.
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Dec 16, 2021 09:58
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live with fruit posted:Hugh. Not gonna lie, was kinda hoping it rhymed wuth "huge".
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Dec 16, 2021 10:39
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My feeling on these developments are Jack's arrest is a ruse. Not real cops, not a real arrest. Nothing about that scene made me think anybody really cared about what was happening. It's harder to logic this one out but it's also possible that Hawkeye didn't know who Fisk was until after the blip. Yeah if he's going after big bads Fisk should be near the top of that list but that doesn't mean he had any intel on him. Fisk could have been below his radar and we don't know Clint had direct contact with him in regards to the hit on Echo's uncle (it's uncle, right? I feel like I've seen some of you say dad though so maybe I'm wrong), he was just tipped off by an informant. There's plenty of time for him to learn who Fisk is before current events unfold. Only used spoiler tags in case anybody hasn't seen the new episode.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:32
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Inspector 34 posted:My feeling on these developments are It was her dad that was killed. "Uncle" is Fisk.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:34
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Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll most likely rewatch all of this over the next few months since I'm kinda half off work at the moment taking care of our baby and have been watching lots of tv. I like the Fisk development thought since he kicks rear end in the role and I'm glad to see some of the good stuff from the Netflix series recognized and incorporated.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:51
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Just putting this out there but maybe Clint didn't go after Fisk because Fisk can beat the poo poo out of him
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Dec 16, 2021 12:51
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This show definitely feels more densely packed with minutiae than the other programs. WandaVision had too much weird back and forth to fit this much interpersonal drama, Winter Soldier never got more involved than an action movie, Bucky rehabilitation notwithstanding. Loki was literally nothing BUT interpersonal drama because the stakes were simultaneously impossibly high but also impossibly low. At the end of episode 5, we have 5 distinct plots: Maya Yelena Clint getting home for Xmas Jack/Dead Uncle and now the kingpin stuff That’s a lot to squeeze into 30 minutes. Luckily instead of introducing a new previously unknown villain in the final episode of the series, they went ahead did it at the rear end-end of episode 5.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:52
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Bust Rodd posted:At the end of episode 5, we have 5 distinct plots: I don't think it's that much. - Maya's subplot is pretty much resolved. - Yelena needs an emotional resolution with Clint (which can tie into the next point) but there isn't really any plot stuff to do. - Clint getting home for Christmas is what happens after everything else is done and can be handled in a couple of minutes. - The last two do need some plot development but they're almost certainly going to be related.
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Dec 16, 2021 13:30
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Bleck posted:Just putting this out there but maybe Clint didn't go after Fisk because Fisk can beat the poo poo out of him Probably. Fisk beat the living tar outta the Punisher. Bowman will get slaughtered.
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Dec 16, 2021 13:40
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Yeah I think if the Archery superhero tried to go toe to toe with a 450 lb juggernaut in a Kevlar suit he’d probably not do to well. If only my boy Hawkeye had some kind of ranged option, a way to injure or even incapacitate Fisk as a distance, perhaps even lethally… unfortunately for Clint I’m not sure where he’d even find such a miraculous weapon! Maybe the dwarf from Ragnarok could forge him an epic armament, but who knows, it seems like the stuff of legend. Edit: between this show and Black Widow, it’s sad but also kind of fitting that pretty much all of Natasha’s characterization happens posthumously. The entire scope of her character has massively expanded since she died. That’s kind of unique.
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Dec 16, 2021 13:53
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Vintersorg posted:Probably. I’m talking about the one where he just reduces some henchman to paste in the car door
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Dec 16, 2021 14:46
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Bust Rodd posted:The entire scope of her character has massively expanded since she died. That’s kind of unique. She's the Jesus Christ of the MCU. Maybe they can fast forward a couple hundred years and people will worship her. 
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Dec 16, 2021 15:20
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Killing Fisk would be easy. Killing Fisk in a way that didn’t set off whatever “find my killer’s family and torture them to death very slowly to send a message” protocols he had in place. Look, he’s the motherfucking Kingpin, his real powers aren’t a lasercane and arrowproof tailoring, it’s having a network set up to absolutely gently caress up anyone who gets on his wrong side. Hell, he’s probably got a team setup to murder the “avenge me” team if they decide to retire now Kingpin’s dead, and they’ll not chicken out because they’ll (rightly) assume a third team exists to deal with them too. There are reasons why Daredevil had three excellent seasons merely fighting Kingpin to a standstill. He’s a goddamn S-tier Marvel villain within his own sphere of influence. The unfriendly neighbourhood supervillain. Clint is right to be scared of him.
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Dec 16, 2021 15:23
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Parkingtigers posted:Killing Fisk would be easy. Killing Fisk in a way that didn’t set off whatever “find my killer’s family and torture them to death very slowly to send a message” protocols he had in place. Clint's family was sand at the time
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Dec 16, 2021 16:01
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I cannot believe how insufferable these takes are
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Dec 16, 2021 16:03
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VagueRant posted:The Kingpin reveal is hollow meta drama and I hate it. It means nothing to Kate Bishop, it adds no drama for the actual characters. Yeah, I thought it was really silly for an MCU property to end with a reveal of a random huge badguy none of the main characters actually know. 
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Dec 16, 2021 16:09
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twistedmentat posted:He would not have gone after the Track Suit Mafia without the tip off. They were probably below his notice, but then the tip off was probably;y "hey these guys are more dangerous than they look", when that's not at all true And it isn't like he ever wiped his hands and said "All done!" with the Tracksuit Mafia/Kingpin. He took out a cell of mooks, killed Maya's Dad, got tipped off that the Yakuza would be in one spot, flew to Japan to take out that guy, and before he could get back to NYC to take out Kingpin, Natasha talked him down. So. Give me my No Prize. GORDON fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 16:12
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Daduzi posted:Yeah, I thought it was really silly for an MCU property to end with a reveal of a random huge badguy none of the main characters actually know. I mean it was also crap in this instance.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:13
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Bleck posted:I cannot believe how insufferable these takes are Goons in a marvel thread are on another level; I've learned to just accept it. 
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Dec 16, 2021 16:15
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The thing that bugs me about MCU shows is, at what point does someone put in an email to the Avengers mailing list already? I mean poo poo half of them live within a couple hours' drive of Manhattan.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:16
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Nail Rat posted:The thing that bugs me about MCU shows is, at what point does someone put in an email to the Avengers mailing list already? I mean poo poo half of them live within a couple hours' drive of Manhattan. Do they still operate under the Sokovia Accords? It probably isn't just a quick "Come help lol" text anymore. It's probably, literally, a binding UN resolution to get The Hulk out of bed.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:19
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Daduzi posted:Yeah, I thought it was really silly for an MCU property to end with a reveal of a random huge badguy none of the main characters actually know. Thanos sucked poo poo in the films up until Infinity War.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:19
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Bust Rodd posted:Luckily instead of introducing a new previously unknown villain in the final episode of the series, they went ahead did it at the rear end-end of episode 5. I would imagine it's probably going to be a different case, where instead of introducing the big bad of the season at the last minute they introduce a big bad for someone else (Maya or Daredevil), for her team (the Young Avengers) or possibly for the entire series if there's more seasons planned while her mom, Eleanor, is Kate's major villain for this season, having been introduced right at the start of the season. Doctor Spaceman posted:I don't think it's that much. Yeah, the feeling I get is that in the next episode Kate, Clint and Yelena will plan to spoil a party that will force the truth out of Eleanor, with Kate concentrating on her while Clint and Yelena have their own confrontation for a short while. The two could wrap up simultaneously, or Clint could convince Yelena early so that the two of them help take out further threats while Kate confronts her mom. After which, Jacque's fate will be decided based on it, and they can set up Kingpin for further shows/seasons as someone higher up the ladder than Eleanor. Kate still gets a win and emotional catharsis by confronting and defeating her mom, while the story is shown to be bigger than that. Nail Rat posted:The thing that bugs me about MCU shows is, at what point does someone put in an email to the Avengers mailing list already? I mean poo poo half of them live within a couple hours' drive of Manhattan. The Avengers don't really exist anymore, since most of the major central characters like Steve, Tony and Natasha are dead, while Thor is off in space doing his own thing. Bruce appears to be working with Carol and others, but he seems to be doing as a new thing without making it an "Avengers", since they don't really have a central base or team or anything. He doesn't even seem to be doing heroics, so much as research and training. tsob fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 16:20
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I wanna see (Hawkeye/Loki) kingpin become multiverse aware and start extending his network into that poo poo, eventually becoming an uneasy ally in the inevitable fight against Kang.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:26
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Parkingtigers posted:Killing Fisk would be easy. Killing Fisk in a way that didn’t set off whatever “find my killer’s family and torture them to death very slowly to send a message” protocols he had in place. We don’t know what Fisk’s deal is in this world yet. He could have Ares himself as his bodyguard. All we know is that Clint, a guy who’s assassinated international terrorists and crime lords and fought space monsters didn’t want to be on his radar. So we’ll see what the deal is next week.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:28
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GORDON posted:Do they still operate under the Sokovia Accords? It probably isn't just a quick "Come help lol" text anymore. It's probably, literally, a binding UN resolution to get The Hulk out of bed. It’s better that we just ignore them
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Dec 16, 2021 16:29
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Kingpin’s multiverse plot from Into the Spider-verse is very good, you could transplant that
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Dec 16, 2021 16:29
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Necrothatcher posted:I mean it was also crap in this instance. I remember people being pretty hype v  v
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Dec 16, 2021 16:32
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Jagermonster posted:We don’t know what Fisk’s deal is in this world yet. He could have Ares himself as his bodyguard. All we know is that Clint, a guy who’s assassinated international terrorists and crime lords and fought space monsters didn’t want to be on his radar. So we’ll see what the deal is next week. My current theory is that His wife is in witness protection from Fisk. Fisk wants the watch so that he can somehow find her. It is not that Clint is physically afraid of Fisk, but knows that his wife could be in danger from Fisk turning his eye to Clints life.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:38
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Jagermonster posted:We don’t know what Fisk’s deal is in this world yet. He could have Ares himself as his bodyguard. All we know is that Clint, a guy who’s assassinated international terrorists and crime lords and fought space monsters didn’t want to be on his radar. So we’ll see what the deal is next week. It seems less like he doesn't want to be on Kingpin's radar and more like Clint didn't want to bother with any of this at all, and was aware that Kingpin didn't want to be on anyone's radar either. He had no intention of dealing with Kingpin at all until the Ronin suit appeared, and even when it did his major focus throughout has been to bury it and make sure it can't come back to haunt him. He's treated the Tracksuit Mafia as a joke, and didn't seem to think the larger force controlling them, i.e. Kingpin, was worth dragging himself back into this for rather than being scared of him as such. Going after Kingpin would basically irrevocably drag him, and more importantly, his family into that life though. Which is why it'll probably be a problem for someone else, either in other shows or other seasons.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:41
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I once saw Kingpin described as the Nick Fury of Crime, so yea, even super murder machine Ronin mode Clint Barton would be hard pressed to take him down. Yelena and Kate have something going on, so it would probably not be hard for Kate to set up some kind of meeting to hash things out. Maybe they fight, but Clint just has to tell Yelena what happened on Vormir, how he tired to die for Nat, but she died for him, so she could in some way absolve herself of her sins and give Clint a chance to be with his family. Why she didn't think of her own, we can't be known, even though the reason is they probably did know what the BW movie was going to be when they wrote Endgame. Maybe Nat just knew her own family was going to be find, and Clint would not be without his. Though that begs the question how did Natasha not know that Yelena was dusted? Anyways, Clint has been torn up about Nats death since then, and that just needs to come out in front of Yelena.
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Dec 16, 2021 16:47
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it is still weird to me that Yelena is so sure Clint's to blame for Nat's death. like, what is she basing that on besides presumably the word of the person who hired her? even knowing he was the Ronin and thus a Bad Guy, she's a loving assassin who's here on a paid hit RIGHT NOW. and even if Nat never mentioned her best friend in the world Clint (I don't remember poo poo about the Black Widow movie, can't recall if Nat and Yelena had any adult contact beyond that film) a cursory Google search probably turns up how close they were, given the in-universe mythologizing of the Avengers. is it just "two people went to Vormir, only he came back"? because I don't know why of any possible scenario of what happened she'd assume he murdered her instead of any of the other Thanos related possibilities. weird conclusion to jump to i like yelena but the moralizing she does to Kate comes across as pretty obnoxious coming from a professional assassin who's only here because some villain paid her to murder an Avenger. Nat would never
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Dec 16, 2021 17:05
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twistedmentat posted:I once saw Kingpin described as the Nick Fury of Crime, so yea, even super murder machine Ronin mode Clint Barton would be hard pressed to take him down. "It was a cool way to die."
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Dec 16, 2021 17:14
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I want to see the Yelena/Kate buddy cop spinoff.
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Dec 16, 2021 17:17
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live with fruit posted:Also, we know that everybody looks the same across the multiverse. Charlie Cox is probably just what Daredevil looks like. When the film he appears in has 3 radically different looking Peters Parker? That's your take?
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Dec 16, 2021 17:31
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ookiimarukochan posted:When the film he appears in has 3 radically different looking Peters Parker? That's your take? Thanks for the unlabeled Spiderman spoiler.
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Dec 16, 2021 17:47
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