COVID-19: People on the internet are judging me for going outside. It used to be the reverse.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > COVID-19: People on the internet are judging me for going outside. It used to be the reverse.

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Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

I really feel the prior 2 posts embody the gulf between reasonable prudence and living in unreasonable fear.

If you were recovered from COVID and then got double vaccinated, you faced about zero risk going out this summer in Denmark. It would be unreasonable to stay locked down needlessly, bordering on irrational. Mental health issues would be a bigger concern, frankly.

Ed: maybe you're American, and assume it's as bad everywhere else?

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 18, 2021

# ? Dec 18, 2021 17:20

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:13

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Wang Commander posted:

Those lewys aren't gonna body themselves!

Did you know that everything from influenza A to chickenpox virus can cause lewy bodies in nerve cells?

It's almost like viruses do damage to your body and being sick is bad for your health. And this is a thing a bunch of people are only learning now about coronavirus because they are obsessively reading about it, not because the concept that viruses cause damage to your body when you become sick is a new idea that is unique to coronavirus.

Like you should avoid getting a cold, because getting a cold sucks, and you get sneezy and sick, but you shouldn't worry about a cold because rhinovirus causes cells to release immunosuppressive cytokines as part of their infection to partially evade the immune system and then spin that into colds being a form of AIDS. Going through each biochemical effect of a virus explains why a virus makes you sick, but it's a huge leap to turning each one into some condition you now have. Lewis body dementia isn't 'you have any Lewis bodies anywhere in your brain tissue", it's a condition where you have so overly many your brain tissue is unable to function.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 17:46

Wang Commander: Dec 27, 2003; by sebmojo

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Dec 18, 2021 18:17

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Wang Commander posted:

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

it's true, I always text my group of friends, "anyone want to mindlessly eat some treats with me?"

# ? Dec 18, 2021 18:33

Judakel: Jul 29, 2004; Can't post for 9 years!

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Your trying to say it's more infectious then measles, one of the true airborne diseases that spreads so fast and openly that before.vaccines being in the same vicinity of where a patient had it caused infection

Stop posting bullshit pre print idiots from Twitter and stop trying to say the world.is.ending because you want attention, it's been two pages of this

Look at this idiot:

https://twitter.com/NY1/status/1472...genumber%3D2979

# ? Dec 18, 2021 18:36

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Wang Commander posted:

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

3 people were found to have parkinsons like illness after covid, maybe related to their infection. Out of the billion people that have had coronavirus.

Finding some one in a million rare thing and pretending it's common is the same logic that has people scrolling endlessly through twitter doing the math that the covid vaccine has lead to 10 deaths (out of 5 billion doses given) and then mentally spinning out of control that if they have to get vaccines yearly that means that they need to sell their unvaxxed sperm because all the heart damage will accumulate and kill them.

Rhinovirus infects T-cells in the nose, if you get several colds a year every year do you eventually come down with AIDS?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 18:41

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Wang Commander posted:

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

You got a source for your claim about young people "getting Parkinson's"?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-there-a-link-between-covid-19-and-parkinsons-disease#Parkinsons-like-symptoms-in-COVID-19

So three people exhibited Parkinson's-like symptoms. Two responded to medication and the third got better untreated.

They didn't "get Parkinson's".

"Two men, aged 45 and 58 years, and one woman, aged 35 years, reported slowness of movement accompanied by muscle stiffness, muscle spasms, irregular eye movement, and tremor.

All three showed reduced function of the brain’s dopamine pathway system on imaging tests. Two of the three responded positively to medication and one recovered spontaneously."

What source are *you* relying on?

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 18, 2021

# ? Dec 18, 2021 19:21

UCS Hellmaker: Mar 29, 2008; Toilet Rascal

Judakel posted:

Look at this idiot:

https://twitter.com/NY1/status/1472...genumber%3D2979

Measles is an airborne virus, and it's radically different then covid, which is highly known. Stop trying to post gotcha bullshit

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:06

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

'Long Covid' is definitely a thing but as someone mentioned, it seems to really gently caress up unvaccinated people a lot more while being fairly rare in vaccinated people.

Also viruses are generally just lovely

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:06

Wang Commander: Dec 27, 2003; by sebmojo

Alctel posted:

'Long Covid' is definitely a thing but as someone mentioned, it seems to really gently caress up unvaccinated people a lot more while being fairly rare in vaccinated people.

Also viruses are generally just lovely

Do you have a citation for this?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:09

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Wang Commander posted:

We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this

I have, in fact, not seen this

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:12

Thorn Wishes Talon: Oct 18, 2014; by Fluffdaddy

Seriously, what the gently caress.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:13

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

hey guys, if you search "penis loss streptococcus infection" you can find multiple cases.

my research shows the average person has hundreds of streptococcus bacteria on every square inch of their body.

If every bacteria only has a .0001% chance of developing into penis fall off then by my math that means that within an hour you have nearly a hundred percent chance of losing your penis.

This is how medical research works, right?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:15

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

This is the kind of poo poo that takes so little effort to drop onto the thread, that people are supposed to spend their effort to rebut every time

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:19

UCS Hellmaker: Mar 29, 2008; Toilet Rascal

That and the covid causes diabetes!!! It's the steroids making people's glucose levels go nuts that is common treatment. Their insulin stabilizes once the steroids get tapered down.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:22

Thorn Wishes Talon: Oct 18, 2014; by Fluffdaddy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/18/omicron-variant-denmark/

quote:

Highly vaccinated countries thought they were over the worst. Denmark says the pandemic�s toughest month is just beginning.

COPENHAGEN � In a country that tracks the spread of coronavirus variants as closely as any in the world, the signals have never been more concerning. Omicron positives are doubling nearly every two days. The country is setting one daily case record after another. The lab analyzing positive tests recently added an overnight shift just to keep up.

And scientists say the surge is just beginning.

As omicron drives a new phase of the pandemic, many are looking to Denmark � and particularly the government institute devoted to testing, surveillance and modeling � for warnings about what to expect.

The emerging answer � even in this highly vaccinated, wealthy northern European country � is dire. For all the defenses built over the last year, the virus is about to sprint out of control, and scientists here expect a similar pattern in much of the world.

�The next month will be the hardest period of the pandemic,� said Tyra Grove Krause, the chief epidemiologist at Denmark�s State Serum Institute, a campus of brick buildings along a canal.

Ever since the omicron variant emerged in November, the best hope has been that it might cause less severe sickness than the delta version it is competing with, which in turn might make this wave more manageable and help the transition of covid-19 into an endemic disease. But Denmark�s projections show the wave so fully inundating the country that even a lessened strain will deliver an unprecedented blow.

Scientists caution that the knowledge of omicron remains imprecise. Denmark�s virus modelers have many scenarios. But even in a middle-of-the-road scenario, Danish hospitals will soon face a daily flow of patients several times beyond what they�ve previously seen.

�This will overwhelm hospitals,� Grove Krause said. �I don�t have any doubt about it.�

In her office building, where she works with a six-person modeling team, she tried to explain why omicron amounts to such a setback in the fight against the pandemic. She likened the virus to a flood, and she described how vaccines, under earlier variants, had acted like two barrier walls safeguarding the health system. One barrier resulted from the vaccines� ability to reduce the probability of infection, keeping spread low. The other barrier stemmed from the diminished likelihood of severe sickness and death. Both barriers had some holes, but together, they ensured that the floodwaters never got too high.

But now, she said, the first barrier has been largely removed. Denmark�s data shows people with two doses to be just as vulnerable to omicron infection as the unvaccinated. Those who�ve received boosters have better protection � a sign of hope � but meanwhile, about 3 in 4 Danes have yet to receive a third dose, making the majority of the country vulnerable.

That dynamic, coupled with a variant far more transmissible than the one from last winter, means any Danish person is now dramatically more likely to come in contact with the virus � including the old and the frail, as Denmark�s demographics skew older, like much of the West. The water will now flow through the holes in the second wall.

On her double-monitor computer, Grove Krause pulled up the institute�s latest projections, which scientists were still tweaking before releasing them to the public on Saturday. The range of possibilities is wide, but the very best scenario � which is unlikely, she said � shows daily hospitalizations matching the peak of last year. In most of the other scenarios, the numbers soar into the stratosphere.

Denmark�s hospitals have never had more than 1,000 covid 19 patients at any given time, last winter�s peak. But by early January, in a moderate scenario, hospitals could be seeing 500 new covid patients arriving every day. If omicron�s transmissibility winds up on the higher end, and it proves just as severe as the delta variant, with a strong ability to evade vaccines, daily admissions could reach 800.

And then there is the matter of infections. Before this wave, Denmark had never seen more than 5,000 cases in a day. On Friday, it logged more than 11,000 new cases. Within a week, in a moderate scenario, case numbers could hit 27,000. And into January? The institute�s estimates climb higher still, off the Y-axis.

With the surge coming into view, Denmark this month cut the opening hours for bars and restaurants, urged people to work from home, and closed schools seven days earlier than planned for Christmas break. Grove Krause cautioned that the projections didn�t take into account the government�s further moves announced Friday, which include the closure of cinemas and theaters. But even a full lockdown, she said, �won�t stop this from getting out of control.�

Denmark�s projections are taken seriously around the world, because they are informed by an all-encompassing coronavirus surveillance system designed specifically for moments like this � when the nature of the virus is quickly shifting.

The system starts with testing: Denmark swabs more people than almost any other country � at a per capita pace seven times that of the United States. The tests, which are free for both citizens and travelers, then arrive at the State Serum Institute, as well as at a sister facility on the other side of the country. Lab technicians identify the positives within 24 hours. And by the following day, they know which variant is responsible for every case.

A portion of the positives are then fully genetically sequenced, delivering an extra layer of insight � allowing researchers not only to see mutations, but also to potentially understand who infected whom.

�We�re seeing things pretty much in real time,� said Arieh Cohen, head of development at the lab that processes test results and conducts the initial variant analysis.

What that data has shown, so far, is that the hospitalization rate is slightly lower for omicron than it is for delta � though because hospitalizations lag behind infections, and because omicron infections hit only recently, scientists say the results will be more meaningful in a couple of weeks.

Scientists have also identified how omicron was seeded throughout the country, first from travelers inbound from Africa, and then through several superspreader events. A just-published paper from the institute and other researchers described a Christmas party attended by about 150 people. Most were vaccinated. And yet 71 tested positive for omicron.

Initial omicron cases in Denmark have been concentrated disproportionately among people in their 20s � an age group that normally has mild symptoms, and whose infections might be missed by countries that test less. Some scientists at the institute think Denmark�s wave is a week or two ahead of other Western countries. But others say many countries could already be experiencing the same pattern, with the young � who are most likely to travel and socialize � jump-starting community spread.

�There�s a chance that Denmark is capturing the spread that other countries are missing,� said Marc Stegger, whose team analyzes genomic data.

This is very bad.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:27

brugroffil: Nov 30, 2015

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Measles is an airborne virus,

So is SARS-COV-2

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:35

smoobles: Sep 4, 2014

I don't think it's a good idea to intentionally catch Omicron, even if you saw some tweets that called it mild.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:38

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

brugroffil posted:

So is SARS-COV-2

It's literally not.

This is that thing where a layman use of a word is different than a formal definition in some field and people think the dumb scientists are just stupid and getting it wrong.

Like go call something negative reinforcement in front of a behavioral psychologist or "likelyhood" in front of a statistician if you want to have the same sort of endless fight where you declare you are right because they won't agree something you are calling that is the same thing they are using the word for.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:42

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

smoobles posted:

I don't think it's a good idea to intentionally catch Omicron, even if you saw some tweets that called it mild.

Nobody here is advocating that.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:42

Fritz the Horse: Dec 26, 2019; ... of course!

Suzera posted:

To be clear if you're referencing what I said, when I said earlier that something seemed reasonable, I didn't mean it's correct as much as I meant it doesn't seem to run counter to other things I know about (or at least hangs in the contextual framework it is used in) and the logic seemed valid enough to me so I had no counterargument to add. I added the disclaimer about not knowing enough about virology beforehand for a reason, with the implication being I could not make a good soundness judgement on the plausibility of sars-cov-2 evolving to a more nasal infection. That was intended to be a soft discussion closer on that subbranch. I also doubt I'll get enough expertise anytime soon to render any confidence of soundness judgement on that particular either. Viral genetic stuff seems a lot more opaque to me than even the grittier antibody stuff.

No I don't recall your post, mine was more toward several peoiple making sweeping generalizations about SARS-CoV-2 evolution (in both directions!). I just grabbed three papers mostly at random to try to make the point there's a tremendous amount of complexity involved in viral evolution and that complexity was not part of the earlier conversations itt.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:45

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

Wang Commander posted:

Do you have a citation for this?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00460-6/fulltext

If you are vaccinated and get a breakthrough infection that is serious and symptomatic (which by itself is a lot less likely to happen if you are vaccinated) then you still have half the chance of getting long covid than a vaccinated person and even then it's less serious

I'm not saying go and start spitting in each others mouths or anything but at this point if you are double or treble vaxxed, under 60 and otherwise healthy your chance of getting long covid is really small

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:46

nexous: Jan 14, 2003; I just want to be pure

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

It's literally not.

This is that thing where a layman use of a word is different than a formal definition in some field and people think the dumb scientists are just stupid and getting it wrong.

Like go call something negative reinforcement in front of a behavioral psychologist or "likelyhood" in front of a statistician if you want to have the same sort of endless fight where you declare you are right because they won't agree something you are calling that is the same thing they are using the word for.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronvirus-covid-airborne-public-health-agencies/amp

https://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/covid-gets-airborne

https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/coronavirus-information/about-the-virus/is-the-coronavirus-airborne

You can be pedantic about what particle size is the cutoff for airborne transmission, or you can just admit that it spreads through the air (as well as droplets)

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:49

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Wang Commander posted:

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

plz use the technical term 'bon bons'

# ? Dec 18, 2021 20:59

brugroffil: Nov 30, 2015

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

It's literally not.

This is that thing where a layman use of a word is different than a formal definition in some field and people think the dumb scientists are just stupid and getting it wrong.

Like go call something negative reinforcement in front of a behavioral psychologist or "likelyhood" in front of a statistician if you want to have the same sort of endless fight where you declare you are right because they won't agree something you are calling that is the same thing they are using the word for.

The WHO and CDC literally recognized it as airborne in the spring. Bit ridiculous it took them that long to admit it, but they did. They finally listened to the experts who had been saying for over a year it was airborne.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencenews.org/article/coronvirus-covid-airborne-public-health-agencies/amp

nexous posted:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronvirus-covid-airborne-public-health-agencies/amp

https://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/covid-gets-airborne

https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/coronavirus-information/about-the-virus/is-the-coronavirus-airborne

You can be pedantic about what particle size is the cutoff for airborne transmission, or you can just admit that it spreads through the air (as well as droplets)

the fishmechs of the world could argue about what specific point on the particle size continuum we were on for a while, but it's been Officially Recognized as being spread by aerosoles (sub 50 microns) for a while. Now they're just wrong if they continue to insist otherwise.

brugroffil fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 18, 2021

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:07

UCS Hellmaker: Mar 29, 2008; Toilet Rascal

brugroffil posted:

So is SARS-COV-2

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:31

Stickman: Feb 1, 2004

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

�Switch to�?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:34

Judakel: Jul 29, 2004; Can't post for 9 years!

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Measles is an airborne virus, and it's radically different then covid, which is highly known. Stop trying to post gotcha bullshit

Covid is airborne, though.

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronvirus-covid-airborne-public-health-agencies

Judakel fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 18, 2021

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:37

brugroffil: Nov 30, 2015

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

It has been officially recognized as spread by aerosol since this spring. It is airborne.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:48

nexous: Jan 14, 2003; I just want to be pure

If it wasn�t airborne, cloth masks would actually be useful

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:49

Wang Commander: Dec 27, 2003; by sebmojo

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

Ballistic droplets going under doors and through vents? Lingering in the air of a restaurant to infect dozens for hours? Your position is that covid works like throwing a ping pong ball at something and all I can say is drat you got one hell of a spin on that virus.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:55

Vorik: Mar 27, 2014

Wang Commander posted:

Covid creates a lot of them and the plan for covid is "we all get it several times a year". It's not insane to think that could add up to "overly many" over time. We've seen young healthy people get Parkinson's within a year of getting this, no one should want a repeat of the loving sleepy sickness just so we can mindlessly consume treats.

Oh word? That's crazy

# ? Dec 18, 2021 21:55

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

As I've understood it, it's one of those situations where clinically the distinction is quite large, but in practical terms it is entirely meaningless. I'm no safer with a sick co-worker near me if they have something airborne versus something that travels via droplets that just so happen to fly through the air very well because they can be very small indeed. I'm personally of the opinion that the distinction was used early on to give people a false sense of safety

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:05

Malloc Voidstar: May 7, 2007; Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

COVID was considered to be "droplet-based" instead of airborne early on because the CDC misinterpreted a study in 1962
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:12

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

hey guys, if you search "penis loss streptococcus infection" you can find multiple cases.

my research shows the average person has hundreds of streptococcus bacteria on every square inch of their body.

If every bacteria only has a .0001% chance of developing into penis fall off then by my math that means that within an hour you have nearly a hundred percent chance of losing your penis.

This is how medical research works, right?

Not sure I'm going to trust someone that can't read an FDA advisory page correctly to explain how medical research works.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:25

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Droplet, well docemented proven and it's not something that can switch to an airborne style of infection. It's a whole different classification and standards. Think tb and measles as the big old boys here.

Good job regurgitating half century old research instead of any of the wide body of aerosol studies that have been done in the past year.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:30

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

It's literally not.

This is that thing where a layman use of a word is different than a formal definition in some field and people think the dumb scientists are just stupid and getting it wrong.

Like go call something negative reinforcement in front of a behavioral psychologist or "likelyhood" in front of a statistician if you want to have the same sort of endless fight where you declare you are right because they won't agree something you are calling that is the same thing they are using the word for.

Airborne vs aerosol vs droplet doesnt really matter - the miasma theory was always correct and should never have been erroneously discredited

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:37

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

mastershakeman posted:

Airborne vs aerosol vs droplet doesnt really matter - the miasma theory was always correct and should never have been erroneously discredited

actually all disease is called by the coronavirus.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 22:57

nexous: Jan 14, 2003; I just want to be pure

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

actually all disease is called by the coronavirus.

Do you have a peer reviewed paper to back this up?

# ? Dec 18, 2021 23:12

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:13

Illuminti: Dec 3, 2005; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Hellblazer187 posted:

Yeah, I'm with you guys on the self imposed lockdown. I've been essentially nowhere except the grocery store or the vet since March 2020. I am mentally totally loving fried. I am allowed to go do things like BJJ class or go to restaurants but I still refuse because it's unsafe. And people treat you like you have three heads.

No loving poo poo.

You know there are other things you can do besides pressing your heaving face and body against another heavily breathing and sweating man, right? Also you can, like, eat outside? Have a picnic?

You don't have to live like a medieval monk in a state of permanent flagellation.

People treat you like you have three heads because your risk assessment is insane.

# ? Dec 18, 2021 23:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > COVID-19: People on the internet are judging me for going outside. It used to be the reverse.

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