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Spudd posted:All loporrits are good and are my friends
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Dec 24, 2021 16:49
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Clarste posted:Eh, I got the impression that it's leading up to a "mad scientist using forbidden magicks to revive his dead wife" kinda thing. First of all why else would they even mention Athena, and second of all there's this obsession with immortality in particular, not just strength. They mention Athena probably because in mythology Erichthonius is the offspring of Athena and Hephaestus. Which to me says that the current Lahabrea is the latter and definitely a future final floor boss.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:06
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Clarste posted:Eh, I got the impression that it's leading up to a "mad scientist using forbidden magicks to revive his dead wife" kinda thing. First of all why else would they even mention Athena, and second of all there's this obsession with immortality in particular, not just strength. Eh, I see the immortality as a part of this reaction to the dominant culture where the ancients seek to build an environment and die when they feel its right. Its culture where willingly dying after a long career is seen as normal, even if those close to them are heartbroken. But it sounds like from Ericthonos's telling that it might have been a accident or escaped test subject in pandaemonium that killed her. So then Lahabrea becomes obsessed with obtaining power and resilience so he doesn't die before its right, then asked himself 'why even die at all, when we can use our powers to become GODS!'. And then why not just throw off the self-imposed shackles about making creatures 'for the star' or 'valuing the arts and culture of others'. The ancients already justify myriad cruelties to their creations unthinkingly, lets openly embrace this path of chaos and cruelty to become gods! These lines from the song seem relevant. Come here! Drink deep! Break free! Stand strong! Walk free! Go forth!
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Dec 24, 2021 17:11
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With bard at 90 I'm now working on my third role quest, and while the ranged one is way better than melee and mostly better than caster, it feels like a missed opportunity. The conflict should've been about what causes Yotsuyu in the first place, not people buttmad Hien didn't execute Tsuyu on the spot.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:19
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The tank role quest is the only one I’ve done so far. It asks the question, “can we make Gridania and by extension Kan-e-Senna interesting?” The answer ended up being “no, and also this is written like a healer role quest but with a tank solo duty at the end.”
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Dec 24, 2021 17:24
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SettingSun posted:They mention Athena probably because in mythology Erichthonius is the offspring of Athena and Hephaestus. ...omitting a lot of really messed up details here.
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Dec 24, 2021 17:59
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Natural 20 posted:Wait is the dancer questline literally a story about Dynamis in disguise? Yes! In fact it seems like it's about dealing with a precursor of the Final Days. The Totentanz is the same as the Blasphemy thing, but it only affects people in extreme emotional distress.
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Dec 24, 2021 18:07
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Dark Knight had been tapping into a form of creation magic before Shadowbringers, too.
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Dec 24, 2021 18:29
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OddObserver posted:...omitting a lot of really messed up details here. Sometimes (a lot of the time) Greek myth is gross. But that doesn't change the outcome!
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Dec 24, 2021 18:41
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SettingSun posted:Sometimes (a lot of the time) Greek myth is gross. But that doesn't change the outcome! Well, it may suggest unpleasant things about the relationship of Lahadad and Athena in this setting, and the former's character, though I suppose given how common that sort of thing is in Greek myth, I may be reaching way too far with this guess.
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Dec 24, 2021 18:48
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Pharohman777 posted:Eh, I see the immortality as a part of this reaction to the dominant culture where the ancients seek to build an environment and die when they feel its right. I mean, those ideas aren't mutually exclusive, I just think we are 1000% going to fight a zombie Athena at some point. While obviously their relationships are loosely based on the Greek gods, that itself is not a reason to namedrop a dead Athena unless that is going to be what the entire plot revolves around.
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Dec 24, 2021 18:57
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OddObserver posted:Well, it may suggest unpleasant things about the relationship of Lahadad and Athena in this setting, and the former's character, though I suppose given how common that sort of thing is in Greek myth, I may be reaching way too far with this guess. They also usually use names with only the barest link to the mythology, often with none at all, so it's possible they won't be leaning on it more than being important names in myth.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:01
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Clarste posted:I mean, those ideas aren't mutually exclusive, I just think we are 1000% going to fight a zombie Athena at some point. While obviously their relationships are loosely based on the Greek gods, that itself is not a reason to namedrop a dead Athena unless that is going to be what the entire plot revolves around. We get to the bottom of Pandemonium, tear off Lahabrea's mask and it's just Nybeth Obdilord again. 'It was ME, Azem! It was ME ALL ALONG!'
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Dec 24, 2021 19:03
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OddObserver posted:Well, it may suggest unpleasant things about the relationship of Lahadad and Athena in this setting, and the former's character, though I suppose given how common that sort of thing is in Greek myth, I may be reaching way too far with this guess. Don’t think too literally about the names. Hades doesn’t have a wife he abducted, Hermes isn’t a scoundrel who loves to steal things
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Dec 24, 2021 19:08
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Harrow posted:The tank role quest is the only one I’ve done so far. It asks the question, “can we make Gridania and by extension Kan-e-Senna interesting?” The answer ended up being “no, and also this is written like a healer role quest but with a tank solo duty at the end.” None of the role quests I've done so far(melee dps, magic dps, healer) really felt like they needed me to be those roles. I could have done those quests as any job and nothing would really change about them. Gearhead posted:We get to the bottom of Pandemonium, tear off Lahabrea's mask and it's just Nybeth Obdilord again. Awww son of a bitch.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:10
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Gearhead posted:We get to the bottom of Pandemonium, tear off Lahabrea's mask and it's just Greg
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Dec 24, 2021 19:12
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No, we fight gregs evil goateed counterpart from the First!
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Dec 24, 2021 19:28
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Pharohman777 posted:No, we fight gregs evil goateed counterpart from the First! Greg isn’t sundered. He’s from the world of Final Fantasy V
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Dec 24, 2021 19:29
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Eimi posted:With bard at 90 I'm now working on my third role quest, and while the ranged one is way better than melee and mostly better than caster, it feels like a missed opportunity. The conflict should've been about what causes Yotsuyu in the first place, not people buttmad Hien didn't execute Tsuyu on the spot. It's not about that It's about the jealousy those with dead loved ones feel for those who survived
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Dec 24, 2021 19:40
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In all seriousness, though, I am kind of wondering about this mess with Pandemonium. Thus far: 1) Lahabrea's wife is dead, and he's apparently thrown himself into his work. The implication is that the death was not timely. 2) We have the upper level head warden of Pandemonium having turned into a vampire, claiming that it was to help with Lahabrea's work. 3) Someone is feeding information to Elpis that everything is Just Fine Here, Thank You. My prediction: Someone, perhaps not Lahabrea, was playing with Creation Magic, and Athena has been merged with another dangerous Mythical Beast like how Phoenix was accidentally merged with a dead soul. Maybe some kind of a vampire. Lahabrea is trying to figure out how to split her from the creation without killing her again.. perhaps because he cannot bring himself to see her die again... But he's developed a blind spot, and the dangerous monster she's become is 'helping' his work by subverting Pandemonium.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:41
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Rhonne posted:None of the role quests I've done so far(melee dps, magic dps, healer) really felt like they needed me to be those roles. I could have done those quests as any job and nothing would really change about them. I feel like healer fits their role quest the most because it's all about metaphorically healing the scars of Ala Mhigo.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:43
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Rhonne posted:None of the role quests I've done so far(melee dps, magic dps, healer) really felt like they needed me to be those roles. I could have done those quests as any job and nothing would really change about them. Ranged DPS is ostensibly about needing range to fight a flying blasphemy, except my WoL did as a dancer, and I don't think he can get quite enough air on the charkrams for that. And of course it promptly landed for the fight anyway.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:49
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Healer role quests isn't really about Kan-E either, it's about the importance of remembering that you don't live in the forest alone and that your fellow residents are hurting from the same things you are--a lesson for both the elementals and the human residents.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:49
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The big issue I have with this talk of Lahabrea coming up as the mind behind everything is that often when Themis talks about making a report either he or Erichthonius make it sound like he's going to report to Lahabrea. And while there's some merit to him still being the one causing problems, Emet-Selch explicitly says that the Convocation are well versed in rooting out falsehoods so I doubt Lahabrea is going behind their backs. Even if Themis is on a fact-gathering mission because the Convocation suspects Lahabrea, Themis will absolutely not be reporting his findings to Lahabrea. Now, Lahabrea being an indirect source of the issue is a much more likely case, as he's already the driving purpose that Hesperos focused on when he got hit with whatever's going on.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:55
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Onean posted:Now, Lahabrea being an indirect source of the issue is a much more likely case, as he's already the driving purpose that Hesperos focused on when he got hit with whatever's going on. My guess would be that Lahabrea has been either kept completely in the dark and whatever is really behind it is keeping him in the dark, or he's been enthralled somehow. Considering that Lahabrea is the Ascian who was so overcome with anguish over the state of the world that he worked himself to complete annihilation, I could see him putting himself into a position where getting either entrapped OR completely kept in the dark is possible. And, ironically, would give him something in common with Thancred.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:59
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Hesperos probably wanted to gently caress Lahabrea which has got to be extra awkward for Eric
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Dec 24, 2021 20:01
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Comedy option: Athena has been turned into JENOVA.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:08
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Gearhead posted:Comedy option: Athena has been turned into JENOVA.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:12
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Hogama posted:Final tier is just Athena∙BIRTH, Athena∙LIFE, Athena∙DEATH, and Athena∙SYNTHESIS. In all honesty, though, unless they brainwash everyone AGAIN I have a hard time imagining that they make Lahabrea into a directly responsible party here. Nobody would've trusted him with the terrible work of building Zodiark if he'd actually gone supervillain. Now what is interesting, is introducing the idea that Lahabrea had a son who is an expert in binding magics. Could this be who The Watcher was based on?
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Dec 24, 2021 20:18
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Remember that Lahabrea is a title. Even if this Lahabrea was involved, the Lahabrea that made Zodiark might be someone else.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:36
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Hellioning posted:Remember that Lahabrea is a title. Even if this Lahabrea was involved, the Lahabrea that made Zodiark might be someone else. There's a lot of incidental info that suggests that the Lahabrea who made Phoenix is the Lahabrea who made Zodiark.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:37
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Gearhead posted:In all honesty, though, unless they brainwash everyone AGAIN I have a hard time imagining that they make Lahabrea into a directly responsible party here. Nobody would've trusted him with the terrible work of building Zodiark if he'd actually gone supervillain. Now what is interesting, is introducing the idea that Lahabrea had a son who is an expert in binding magics. Ooo, great point! The ENTIRE moon is a giant physical prison for Zodiark, so the design would have to be in a way that there is one way in or out, and thats through the 6 brands where aether is allowed to circulate. Designing the material composition of the moon, calculating the geometry of the core, making blueprints and scale models of the brands and moon to test stuff... Yeah, I could see Ericthonos being the main designer behind the moon itself even if he didn't have the power to see his vision though. He probably sacrificed himself to form Hydaelyn, and she pulled on all his memories to construct the moon in that chaotic moment when the world was split 14 ways and everything hadn't come apart completely.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:48
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I need to double check the warding glyph that appears in Pandemonium leading down to the next level as well. It has the design language we've come to expect from the Ancients, but I didn't have a chance to grab a screenshot to compare against the greater seal of Lahabrea. For the sake of comparison: 
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Dec 24, 2021 21:12
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Gearhead posted:I need to double check the warding glyph that appears in Pandemonium leading down to the next level as well. It has the design language we've come to expect from the Ancients, but I didn't have a chance to grab a screenshot to compare against the greater seal of Lahabrea.  I got you.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:39
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Eimi posted:
Interesting. That matches nobody's design that I recognize. Warding symbols and circles seem to take part of the art of the Convocation glyph and then repeat it radially. The first tease that Venat used to be Azem is on the Zodiark ward itself, for instance, she still uses what seem to be Azem's markers. This is what the Convocation's artwork should look like, flipped to the correct orientation. Minus, Azem.  Azem's design is speculated to feature both sunrays and a symbol vaguely like a heart somewhere in it. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 22:02
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Rhonne posted:None of the role quests I've done so far(melee dps, magic dps, healer) really felt like they needed me to be those roles. I could have done those quests as any job and nothing would really change about them. I liked the ShB version where the story doesn't really demand the role, but you're following your party of light counterpart so it felt appropriate
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Dec 24, 2021 22:19
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Hellioning posted:Remember that Lahabrea is a title. Even if this Lahabrea was involved, the Lahabrea that made Zodiark might be someone else. For what it's worth, I think 'Lahabrea made Zodiark' was a misconception from Shadowbringers and its patches (particularly the impression of an ownership of sorts in the Etched in the Stars quests), because it sounds like it was Fandaniel that made Zodiark.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:08
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Cleretic posted:For what it's worth, I think 'Lahabrea made Zodiark' was a misconception from Shadowbringers and its patches (particularly the impression of an ownership of sorts in the Etched in the Stars quests), because it sounds like it was Fandaniel that made Zodiark. Fandaniel identified the problem. But as the Seat of Phantomology it logically would've fallen to Lahabrea to do the designs. And Zodiark's statue appears IN The Words of Lahabrea during the Academia dungeon. As a note, I just realized another oddity in that warding sign. The Council is associated with the color red, for their masks, except Azem, who is associated with gold, perhaps in association with the sun. But what is up with this funky blue-purple color on that ward? This is not a color I normally associate with the Ancients. That's the color of magic associated with Voidsent and Dalamud Cults. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 23:11
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Alright folks what will the Saint of Nymeia give you this year? I’m hoping for a pack of platinum triple triad cards
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Dec 24, 2021 23:15
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thetoughestbean posted:Alright folks what will the Saint of Nymeia give you this year? I’m hoping for a pack of platinum triple triad cards I got a weird strip of leather with metal on one end. What am I supposed to do with this?
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Dec 24, 2021 23:51
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