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Xand_Man posted:Eh, my hope is that Trump either kicks it or is so obviously infirm that they have to run someone else and the primary exacerbates the Republican party's faultlines How infirm would he have to be. He gives incoherent rants and slurs his words and can barely walk 10 feet and they cheer and scream and insist he's the healthiest golden god in the world. If he's in the star trek beep beep robot chair I think they'd just be like "he's immortal, praise the god-emperor".
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Dec 22, 2021 22:56
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pseudanonymous posted:If he's in the star trek beep beep robot chair I think they'd just be like "he's immortal, praise the god-emperor". Ben Garrison would be drawing Trump in power armor.
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Dec 22, 2021 23:18
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:They believe Donald John Trump has been planning for decades (possibly longer for the time control crowd) to accomplish this goal, this is the Plan they are Trusting. The details of this plan vary a lot by the telling, but essentially it would involve the entire united states military, or some extremely loyal core of it at least, simultaneously rising up and arresting every bad person and putting all the good people in charge of a military dictatorship that would summarily execute everyone that they don't like. This why you had a lot of that "replaced by a clone" stuff in the past. The idea being that, despite trump sitting around eating cheeseburgers and not enacting the Plan, he was actually secretly arresting these people and replacing them with harmless clones as to not alert the other evil globalists. Seems like someone planted the seeds for expanding and excusing the imprisonment and murder of anyone the USG doesn't like when it inevitably becomes a fascist dictatorship. Democrats, liberals, leftists, and anyone else who gets in the way are pedophiles who feed on a chemical produced by terrified children, so don't worry when they're black bagged. Just making the world safer. Say your prayers. Real Pre-Nazi Germany type beat.
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Dec 22, 2021 23:41
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Noam Chomsky posted:Seems like someone planted the seeds for expanding and excusing the imprisonment and murder of anyone the USG doesn't like when it inevitably becomes a fascist dictatorship. Yup lol, even if you've sniffed enough inhalants to believe what Qanon purports, their conclusion is still fundamentally about fascist mass-murder and installing a dictator. I don't think the Qanon types would care one iota if Trump didn't actually execute people so long as they get their dictator installed. Everything they claim is just worked backward from that conclusion to justify it. I'm also afraid of a Trump/Desantis ticket (if they collaborate or the torch is passed to Desantis, at least). Gaetz and MTG have floated making Trump speaker of the house so I'd bet good money a significant amount of GOP congress has an alternate plan though. Here's some pre-Nazi-Germany poo poo right here: 1. Win house in 2022 2. Install Trump as Speaker 3. Impeach or coup Biden & Harris (Rs been digging their heels on 6 Jan investigations cause they like the idea of an unaccountable militia at their beck and call, they will absolutely do it again if they get the chance) 4. This term doesn't count against limits, also we can fix the elections for good now, also what good are term limits anyway when you think about it? The stupidest and shittiest possible option so I'm gonna be holding my breath for another year.
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Dec 23, 2021 00:23
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Rob Rockley posted:1. Win house in 2022 FWIW attempting a coup against the largest military in the world seems dumb even for Trump & Co. I doubt anything real spicy will happen before 2024 where they can make a claim on CIC
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Dec 23, 2021 02:13
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Trump and DeSantis can't run on the same ticket without writing off Florida. Unless Trump changes his state of residency, they would be ineligible for Florida's electoral votes by the 12th Amendment. Trump would just change his residence to NYC. It's not even a stretch.
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Dec 23, 2021 04:49
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Mercury_Storm posted:Evangelicals, I thought, only voted for Trump so they could get a SC justice that had been post-humorously approved by Phyllis Schlafly, the original culture warrior and progenitor of them ever giving a gently caress about abortion. Everything is just another point to score in the endless culture war. There’s not a project with an end goal any more. It’s just go go go until the ovens at the camps are running day and night and the smoke blots out the sun.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:06
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Zeroisanumber posted:Trump would just change his residence to NYC. Didn’t Cheney change his residence on day of the deadline to not be in violation of that law?
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Dec 23, 2021 05:09
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"Install Trump as Speaker of the House, impeach Biden and Harris and make Trump president" is a frightening thing, and it's even well within the rules of how things work (I know Republicans don't give a poo poo about the rules, but it's still advantageous for them if they can do it legally). That said, I don't think it's likely. The GOP will probably take the House next year so it'd be easy to bring up articles of impeachment for Biden and Harris, but they'd still need 66 senators to vote to remove them, and that seems unlikely. There's 34 seats up for election in the Senate next year: 20 Republican, and 14 Democrat. Even if the GOP holds all their seats and flips all the Dem seats, that still would only give them 64 seats. They'd need two Dems to vote with them to impeach Biden and Harris, and I don't think that's likely. Not impossible, but I think even Manchin and Sinema would be against such a blatant power grab.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:26
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Xand_Man posted:FWIW attempting a coup against the largest military in the world seems dumb even for Trump & Co. I doubt anything real spicy will happen before 2024 where they can make a claim on CIC You are assuming the largest military in the world is largely or even significantly interested in opposing the coup or getting involved. Like people mocked me in this thread for it earlier, but loving seriously; January 6th was a test run. The GOP learned unambiguously that they face no consequences - not anyone who matters - for failing a coup. Even if we assume the military gets involved this time; so loving what? The facts as they stand are this: The penalty for failing to seize power through violence in the US is, for those who matter, nothing. The reward for succeeding to seize power through violence in the US is, obviously, everything. What reason is there, then, to not try again? And again? We saw the 2000 Election, and we are seeing the response to Jan 6th. Liberals are neither willing nor able to meaningfully provide resistance to fascism and the Democrats are more concerned with decorum than democracy. This is largely an unrealistic scenario, I agree, but that's only because there's basically no need for an insurrection since the Dems will get trounced electorally in 2024.
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Dec 23, 2021 07:27
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People Got Sick at a Conspiracy Conference. They’re Sure It’s Anthrax. https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7wz5a/people-got-sick-at-a-conspiracy-conference-theyre-sure-its-anthrax A group of unvaccinated people who attended a huge conspiracy conference in Dallas earlier this month all became sick in the days after the event with symptoms like coughing, shortness of breath, and fever. Instead of blaming the global COVID pandemic, however, the conspiracy theorists think they were attacked with anthrax.
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Dec 23, 2021 13:02
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I agree that any impeachment and removal of Biden+Kamala is virtually impossible, but what worries about the Speaker Trump scenario is that we’ll get 2 straight years of “won’t someone rid me of this meddlesome priest” hints from him. He’ll be constantly saying poo poo like “boy if only lyin’ Biden and cheatin’ Kamala were out of the way, I could fix all this”. The online right-wingers will be screaming for brave patriots to step up to the plate, and the talking heads on Fox News will be tumescent at the idea of covering a Biden or Harris assassination.
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Dec 23, 2021 14:55
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BiggerBoat posted:People Got Sick at a Conspiracy Conference. They’re Sure It’s Anthrax. Are they breaking out in black pus filled lesions? No? Probably not anthrax then. Like, the dumb lies they tell themselves are just so pathetically dumb.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:22
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Wouldn’t giving Trump speakership of the House require him to actually show up and do work?
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Dec 23, 2021 15:28
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Murgos posted:Are they breaking out in black pus filled lesions? No? Probably not anthrax then. Oh, good. I was worried. I read stuff like this and then remember it whenever centrists and wishy washy liberals try to tell me that we really need to really reach out to these poor, disaffected people and address their "economic anxiety" instead of shunning them like lepers. This is cult like levels of behavior gone disturbingly mainstream. It will take something closer to deprogramming than reaching out on the issues and I don't see how a political party can do that - especially one as ineffectual and hapless as the Democrats - or even through the media since 99% of these dorks only ever consume their own RWM version of the news anyway. They're not all Q Loonies but something like 80% of GOP voters believe the election fraud/stolen poo poo so let that sink in for a minute. That means 4 out of every 5 of your family members, coworkers are people sitting next to you in a movie theater that are Republicans strongly believe in a demonstrably untrue fact, not just the crazies.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:47
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Twelve by Pies posted:"Install Trump as Speaker of the House, impeach Biden and Harris and make Trump president" is a frightening thing, and it's even well within the rules of how things work (I know Republicans don't give a poo poo about the rules, but it's still advantageous for them if they can do it legally). That said, I don't think it's likely. The GOP will probably take the House next year so it'd be easy to bring up articles of impeachment for Biden and Harris, but they'd still need 66 senators to vote to remove them, and that seems unlikely. There's 34 seats up for election in the Senate next year: 20 Republican, and 14 Democrat. Even if the GOP holds all their seats and flips all the Dem seats, that still would only give them 64 seats. They'd need two Dems to vote with them to impeach Biden and Harris, and I don't think that's likely. Not impossible, but I think even Manchin and Sinema would be against such a blatant power grab. Yeah, it’s still unlikely they would procedurally do that. But so was stopping Biden from being inaugurated. The result was Trump and Republican congressmen planning a violent coup attempt to get around that fact. If Rs control the house in a year I’m gonna start sweating: it will definitely occur to Them that they only have a couple people in their way. They will absolutely try to use violence if they think they can get away with it. And this thread exists because they have plenty of donkey brained morons who can be motivated to do so the instant trump starts yelling for the “second amendment people” to fix his problems again. As for the military and security situation: it was unthinkable a year ago a horde of mouth breathers could just waltz into the capitol in session to try and murder the Vice President and Speaker in order to install a senile game show host as dictator, but they nearly succeeded. I think at this point Rs are dragging their heels on the Jan 6 issue not because they are worried they’ll get in trouble, and more that they want to ensure they can try to do it again.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:01
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For whatever reason I bounced off 1984 pretty near the beginning. Is there a scene in it where something is explained to someone clearly and with supporting evidence and then they just reject it for something made up right there on the spot that contradicts all the evidence? Not for any reason, just to be contrary? Because if not then the book didn’t go far enough.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:05
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Murgos posted:For whatever reason I bounced off 1984 pretty near the beginning.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:13
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Dr Christmas posted:Wouldn’t giving Trump speakership of the House require him to actually show up and do work? Lol if you think he'd be required to do any work.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:27
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Murgos posted:For whatever reason I bounced off 1984 pretty near the beginning. It's more about the state using its power to rewrite history and force a false narrative on people rather than people seeking out or producing their own pseudo-reality because the real one isn't racist enough for them, etc. The whole reason the book got put through the public school system is likely because it was deemed that the message was against THE COMMIES  , who would clearly inflict this sort of unreality upon us if they were in control, ironically, instead of for-profit corporations under capitalism who realized there was a large chud market.The book really doesn't go far enough in a sense because we have multiple networks with 24/7 hate cycles that strongly appeal to chuds instead of just a two-minute hate mandated by a nebulous all-controlling state. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 16:35
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There's also the 1984-metanarrative where you really can make anything up and some press outlet will pick it up if it fits their perception. https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/824388930975916032
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Dec 23, 2021 16:38
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Mercury_Storm posted:It's more about the state using its power to rewrite history and force a false narrative on people rather than people seeking out or producing their own pseudo-reality because the real one isn't racist enough for them, etc. The whole reason the book got put through the public school system is likely because it was deemed that the message was against THE COMMIES Fox is 1984. They've got all the double think, the double plus good language, the 2 minutes of hate, the shifting enemy to suit the day. Fox is absolutely what the book is trying to warn you about. Edit: vvv Ministry is Truth, thanks I couldn't remember the name. Instead of it being a government entity, we got it as a corporate one. eSporks fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 16:45
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From 1984 I think it's specifically the Ministry of Truth that you can point to and say this is something that could evolve from where we are, Fox and the larger right-wing media ecosystem. Emmanuel Goldstein, "ignorance is strength", the purposeful elimination/vitiation of words and the inability to think complex thoughts once no longer having the words to articulate them.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:34
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I'm reminded of the time some years ago when Amazon discovered that they didn't actually have the rights to publish a Kindle edition of a certain book. So they just silently removed it from every device in the world, with no notifications or explanations or anything. It was just gone, like it had never been there. The book in question, of course, was 1984, because the universe's sense of humor is like that.
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Dec 23, 2021 22:25
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indiscriminately posted:From 1984 I think it's specifically the Ministry of Truth that you can point to and say this is something that could evolve from where we are, Fox and the larger right-wing media ecosystem. Emmanuel Goldstein, "ignorance is strength", the purposeful elimination/vitiation of words and the inability to think complex thoughts once no longer having the words to articulate them. 1984 is one of my favorite books of all time. When I was a teen reading it for a first time, the thing I found silly was O'Brien and presumably given we can safely assume he does speak for the Party, the Party, being cartoonishly evil with his whole power for power's sake. Then as I grew older, yeah. I still say that's the literal definition of what separates extreme conservatism from fascism; the fascist sees violence and cruelty as ends, not means. The first part of the 'boot stamping on a human face' quote is more relevant and chilling to our times than the actual famous one-liner. quote:There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:19
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https://twitter.com/debdrens/status/1474515496976408577?s=21
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Dec 25, 2021 00:23
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This condenses the entire Q phenomenon into one screengrab. The person who wrote that has spent the past five years being the loving worst and alienating everyone close to them, and every time they suffered consequences for it they could say "The motherfucking PRESIDENT agrees with me  " And now it's not enough and everything is starting to get dark and cold
DarklyDreaming fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 00:35
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"I've been CRYING because an adult got a vaccine" sure is a take but here we are. Lots more fun fun ahead I'm afraid.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:05
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Guavanaut posted:There's also the 1984-metanarrative where you really can make anything up and some press outlet will pick it up if it fits their perception. Not as good as the gorilla channel but still a solid fakepost here 
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Dec 25, 2021 01:05
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I like to occasionally challenge some of these types with regards to the death penalty (that they all universally support) by saying something along the lines that I'm against the government having the power to murder people. It doesn't always get through but every once in a while I can see a glimmer of recognition there.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:51
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Another fun one is to say you're against the death penalty because the Declaration of Independence says we have an inalienable right to life. A lot of people don't know what the word "inalienable" means so any defense that boils down to "But if they do something bad enough they've forfeited that right" is at odds with the definition of the word.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:19
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The actual answer that the founders would respond with is that only property-owning males are people. And while the hypothetical person you would argue with would never vocally agree with that definition, in their vile little hearts they would think so too.
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Dec 25, 2021 12:50
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Phobophilia posted:The actual answer that the founders would respond with is that only property-owning males are people. And while the hypothetical person you would argue with would never vocally agree with that definition, in their vile little hearts they would think so too. Did Timothy McVeigh own property? Because even if you go a step further and specify white property-owning males, I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the people that have been executed and/or these people would like to see executed are property-owning white males.
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Dec 25, 2021 13:12
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Did Timothy McVeigh own property? Because even if you go a step further and specify white property-owning males, I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the people that have been executed and/or these people would like to see executed are property-owning white males. Something something rewarded by the patriots something something accolades and action-earned-land awaits.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:38
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Phobophilia posted:The actual answer that the founders would respond with is that only property-owning males are people. Are you sure this is what they would say? My understanding of racial/sexual/economic ideology in that period is that they'd still acknowledge women and poor men, even slaves, as people, they just wouldn't accept the idea that being a person means you're entitled to the rights of a citizen. Basically the same way we think of children today - "sure, they're people, but because of their shortcomings we can't give them all the rights normal people get." And that paternalism is ultimately dehumanizing but I can't imagine any of the American founders I've read saying "only property-owning males are people at all" Did any of the founding fathers actually say that, because if so I'd love to read it, or are you exaggerating their already-outrageous prejudice to make a point?
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Dec 25, 2021 14:45
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Did any of the founding fathers actually say that, because if so I'd love to read it, or are you exaggerating their already-outrageous prejudice to make a point? If nothing else you can look at Thomas Jefferson owning slaves, raping his slaves, having children with said slaves, and keeping his own slave-rape children owned as slaves by his own family. If that doesn't tell you what that man thought about non-whites as people I'm not sure what could be more blatant. Or that whole all men created equal, liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness thing being in the same document that contains the 3/5ths compromise and the rules that only white, male property owners are allowed to vote.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:49
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Zebulon posted:If nothing else you can look at Thomas Jefferson owning slaves, raping his slaves, having children with said slaves, and keeping his own slave-rape children owned as slaves by his own family. If that doesn't tell you what that man thought about non-whites as people I'm not sure what could be more blatant. The matter isn't what he thought internally (impossible to know, important not to care) but what he said (or would say) and that seemed based not on the idea that black people, poor people, or women were not people but that they were lesser people who had to be protected paternalistically. Jefferson was a moral monster, all the founding fathers were by my understanding, but I don't think the record of their political discourse at all suggests that this is true: Phobophilia posted:The actual answer that the founders would respond with is that only property-owning males are people. Jefferson's writings actually suggest a totally failed attempt to reconcile his rape-butchery with some awareness that black people are people who deserve better. And to this end he draws in scientific racism, economic justification, ludicrous fantasizes of slaves becoming colonizers. So I think he and other founders would say "of course every person in this country is a person but..." Just like a modern reactionary might say today. Phobophilia posted:And while the hypothetical person you would argue with would never vocally agree with that definition, in their vile little hearts they would think so too. I think it'd be more accurate to say the founders would also never vocally agree with that definition of who are or are not "people." Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 15:09
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The Declaration of Independence is also just a weird hypocritical document that was more international propaganda than a consistent statement of principles. The original draft included a passage blaming slavery on King George, although this was deleted at the insistence of the other southern delegates because they couldn't stand implying maybe the slave trade was a bad thing even in the course of cynically using it to denounce an enemy.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:34
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Zebulon posted:
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Dec 25, 2021 17:30
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The Constitution makes an extremely important legal distinction between people and citizens. Some rights are granted to people, other rights are only granted to citizens.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:44
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