A big flaming stink posted:I'm aware she's inferring from the announcement, I'm merely remarking on how blatantly obvious it is that the CDC seeks to save number rather than lives So, you're lying and pretending this is an "admission" of whatever you want to assign to it. A big flaming stink posted:So regarding that updated guidance: This is not any kind of representative for the CDC. You're just making things up and assigning them to tweets. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 05:26
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Sharkie posted:Reuters? I was referring to how A big flaming stink was pretending like Ranney is from the CDC and/or Biden administration...
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Dec 28, 2021 05:32
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Calling everyone liars for saying in simple terms what they see and hear is neither a convincing rhetorical technique nor a politically persuasive strategy.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:33
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SKULL.GIF posted:Calling everyone liars for saying in simple terms what they see and hear is neither a convincing rhetorical technique nor a politically persuasive strategy. Agreed. No idea how you could get mad at that reading, esp with the reuters ref. That lady calling out the CDC is almost certainly 100% right. Just hard to say "they admitted their purpose" from that tapper tweet.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:36
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Glory to Italia!
ILL Machina posted:Agreed. No idea how you could get mad at that reading, esp with the reuters ref. That lady calling out the CDC is almost certainly 100% right. Just hard to say "they admitted their purpose" from that tapper tweet. A shame then that the user with the rapsheet full of posting things from twitter and misrepresenting them posted a tweet from tapper and said that "they admitted their purpose". (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 05:42
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I don't think it's useful to point out that somebody was factually wrong. It's better to ask yourself whether a post *feels* correct. If it feels correct, it's good enough imo.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:44
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Discendo Vox posted:So, you're lying and pretending this is an "admission" of whatever you want to assign to it. Discendo Vox posted:A shame then that the user with the rapsheet full of posting things from twitter and misrepresenting them posted a tweet from tapper and said that "they admitted their purpose". lmao shut the hell up, dude. i did not loving claim that the woman was a rep from the CDC. you're so loving focused on debate lord bullshit that you cant read a simple turn of phrase ILL Machina posted:Agreed. No idea how you could get mad at that reading, esp with the reuters ref. That lady calling out the CDC is almost certainly 100% right. Just hard to say "they admitted their purpose" from that tapper tweet. to reiterate, my intention was to say taht the CDC themselves admitted that they were concerned with the economy rather than lives. Hell, I was working off of this post to begin with: Mellow Seas posted:Seems like they are doing it based on data of when patients are most contagious and a desire to avoid major staffing shortages across... well, everything, given how fast Omicron is spreading. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 06:10
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Holding you accountable for what you say isn't "debate lord bullshit", and misrepresenting tweets to try to score owns isn't a "turn of phrase" except by the most abusive rationale.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:20
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So is the debate over whether the change in isolation guidance is coming from employer pressure or not, or simply over whether the CDC specifically admitted what journalists have already figured out.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:23
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VitalSigns posted:So is the debate over whether the change in isolation guidance is coming from employer pressure or not, or simply over whether the CDC specifically admitted what journalists have already figured out. I think the second part. Well, more that CDC openly admitted, I guess. Although I still have no idea who A big flaming stink was trying to claim by saying "them" in their post with the interview clip with Ranney. Who was clearly stating her [most likely correct] opinion and is not a part of the CDC/Biden administration. E: TBH, I really hope A big flaming stink, along with everyone posting about this, actually watches that interview. It's clearly more than just the headline. It's pretty re-affirming with Ranney stating that those who are vaccinated, asymptomatic, and test positive are not infectious after 5 days. Of course that only helps companies with vaccine mandates. Here's to hoping Biden's vaccine mandate to companies > 100 people will be upheld in SCOTUS's ruling next month(-ish) Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 06:26
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VitalSigns posted:So is the debate over whether the change in isolation guidance is coming from employer pressure or not, or simply over whether the CDC specifically admitted what journalists have already figured out. It was the former, then someone said admitted so it's now the latter.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:28
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lol imagine if the mods actually did anything about the various people trolling
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Dec 28, 2021 06:57
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Discendo Vox posted:A shame then that the user with the rapsheet full of posting things from twitter and misrepresenting them posted a tweet from tapper and said that "they admitted their purpose". please do not weaponize post histories. that is "remembering things" and it is illegal, sir Herstory Begins Now posted:lol imagine if the mods actually did anything about the various people trolling look it's fine, they'll get to banning the most blatant rereg in D&D history at some point before the 2022 midterms
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Dec 28, 2021 06:57
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Sedisp posted:Just go reprogram 150 million people propagandized since birth Bing bong so simple. So what, you think you're bring the US to socialism if you just tell enough excuses? I'm sick as hell of ivory-tower revolutionaries insisting that over half of the American populace are anti-American traitors who need to be purged from all political involvement because they've been brainwashed by insert-group-here into wanting to destroy American society.
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Dec 28, 2021 07:00
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Main Paineframe posted:So what, you think you're bring the US to socialism if you just tell enough excuses? I'm sick as hell of ivory-tower revolutionaries insisting that over half of the American populace are anti-American traitors who need to be purged from all political involvement because they've been brainwashed by insert-group-here into wanting to destroy American society. Ivory tower revolutionaries or MSNBC? I personally wish more people would embrace Maoism but the whole deplorables and "well they're in a red state what can you do" poo poo isn't coming from the left, it's coming from the center at the present moment. How many anti-American traitors who love Putin and hate """democracy""" are there at this point?
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Dec 28, 2021 07:03
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Craig K posted:please do not weaponize post histories. that is "remembering things" and it is illegal, sir (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Please do not question the_steve probations, and generally being insufferable. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours. Kalit fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 07:04
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Quote this post for a 12 hour probation of Joc Pederson mid-HR swing with pearls in full display Had considered doing the Soler Game 6 HR but nothing short of a 100k would be worthy of that
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Dec 28, 2021 07:13
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Praxis Prion posted:Not only that, but the American Heart Association just came out with new guidelines telling healthcare workers not to delay CPR for covid-positive patients in order to put PPE on first. loooooool I will be in full droplet precautions before I do a single compression gently caress youuuuuuuuuuu
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Dec 28, 2021 07:15
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Epic High Five posted:Quote this post for a 12 hour probation of Joc Pederson mid-HR swing with pearls in full display TBH, I was more of a fan during the Glavine era of Atlanta. But this will suffice. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 28, 2021 07:17
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Epic High Five posted:Quote this post for a 12 hour probation of Joc Pederson mid-HR swing with pearls in full display alright this sounds sufficiently novel that i want to see what it is also cmon the loving delta CEO asked the CDC to shorten the isolation period a week ago and people still asking how i figured out they care more about number than lives? https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-ceo-asks-cdc-cut-quarantine-time-breakthrough-covid-cases-2021-12-21/ quote:"With the rapid spread of the Omicron variant, the 10-day isolation for those who are fully vaccinated may significantly impact our workforce and operations," Bastian wrote. "Similar to healthcare, police, fire, and public transportation workforces, the Omicron surge may exacerbate shortages and create significant disruptions." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 28, 2021 07:18
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LeeMajors posted:loooooool I will be in full droplet precautions before I do a single compression gently caress youuuuuuuuuuu tbh I was amazed to hear mouth to mouth was still standard...it's been like 10 years since I got certified and got my EMT poo poo but even then the norm was "just crack those ribs whatever you can breathe into them is a waste of time" But like...breaking ribs so people spit all over you while you are unprotected in every sense to save like 5 seconds? lmao no fuckin way, nobody ever expected me to stick around in a dangerous environment and I'm not gonna pretend COVID is some kind of magical exception
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Dec 28, 2021 07:19
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Herstory Begins Now posted:lol imagine if the mods actually did anything about the various people trolling Oh they did the_steve has probed anyone speaking against the succ zone posters as per usual.
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Dec 28, 2021 07:20
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socialsecurity posted:Oh they did the_steve has anyone speaking against the succ zone posters as per usual. it's messy work, but someone's gotta do it Epic High Five posted:tbh I was amazed to hear mouth to mouth was still standard...it's been like 10 years since I got certified and got my EMT poo poo but even then the norm was "just crack those ribs whatever you can breathe into them is a waste of time" there are precious few situations where I would even consider performing cpr, and even fewer during a pandemic. On a related note, it's v good that I'm not an emt Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 07:20
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Herstory Begins Now posted:it's messy work, but someone's gotta do it I'm lucky in a sense I guess because I tested out of my class at #2 but every offer was "$7.25/hr but unlimited overtime" and like I literally could not afford to do that so thanks for the lifeskills I guess lmao Real fun rear end job tho, no shortage of stories for social events with randos
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Dec 28, 2021 07:25
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Epic High Five posted:Ivory tower revolutionaries or MSNBC? I personally wish more people would embrace Maoism but the whole deplorables and "well they're in a red state what can you do" poo poo isn't coming from the left, it's coming from the center at the present moment. How many anti-American traitors who love Putin and hate """democracy""" are there at this point? The person I was quoting is literally doing the "well they're pro-capitalism, what can you do" schtick, and I don't think there's a whole lot of centrists here, so it sounds like there's at least one or two people on the left dismissing half the population as unreachable deplorables! In my opinion, that stance is actually worse than "well they're in a red state what can you do". At least the red-state thing speaks to real issues regarding geographic constraints on organizing and propagandizing, and the way the urban-rural split disrupts labor solidarity and impacts options for community organizing. Throwing up your hands and just writing off 50+% of the American population because capitalists control the media frustrates the utter hell out of me. Not only is it politically nihilistic to the point of practically being surrender, but it's also like hocking a big fuckin loogie at the efforts of early workers' movements who were able to win significant victories under far worse conditions. Personally, I think the correct path forward for the left is to spend a decade or two organizing in their communities and workplaces, instead of daydreaming about a leftist president conducting mass political purges.
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Dec 28, 2021 07:26
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Epic High Five posted:tbh I was amazed to hear mouth to mouth was still standard...it's been like 10 years since I got certified and got my EMT poo poo but even then the norm was "just crack those ribs whatever you can breathe into them is a waste of time" Mouth to mouth is not at all standard but still makes appearances in class via pocket masks. I think layperson courses focus on airway clearance and continuous compressions nowadays. Otherwise breaths are performed by bag valve mask. But yeah I resuscitate for a living and we use gloves/gown/PAPR on all arrests because between advanced airways and chest compressions they are droplet fiestas.
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Dec 28, 2021 07:28
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LeeMajors posted:Mouth to mouth is not at all standard but still makes appearances in class via pocket masks. Airway clearance always got the #1 priority treatment so I guess it makes sense. I just wish the job itself actually paid a living goddamned wage because I really think I would've loved doing it but couldn't afford the newbie wages at the time and didn't savor the "chain smoking anxiety disorder guy with PTSD" long term standard I saw so much. Did enjoy my time in firehouses and talking food and coffee tho Now instead I'm doing remote consulting from McMurdo for a prestigious clown college and it's a lot less satisfying Anyway I've got 4 more images reserved for rando probations so if anybody wants one just let me know with a quote
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Dec 28, 2021 07:39
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Epic High Five posted:Airway clearance always got the #1 priority treatment so I guess it makes sense. I just wish the job itself actually paid a living goddamned wage because I really think I would've loved doing it but couldn't afford the newbie wages at the time and didn't savor the "chain smoking anxiety disorder guy with PTSD" long term standard I saw so much. Did enjoy my time in firehouses and talking food and coffee tho Job hasn't gotten any better! Most places a basic is lucky to make over ten an hour. And most firehouses don't take basics. The firefighters make good money but it's a bitch to get in that takes years at most places. Basically there's a reason ems is a tire fire and pay is one of those
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Dec 28, 2021 07:54
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Job hasn't gotten any better! Most places a basic is lucky to make over ten an hour. And most firehouses don't take basics. The firefighters make good money but it's a bitch to get in that takes years at most places. Basically there's a reason ems is a tire fire and pay is one of those My experience as a trainee paying to be there was that firehouses had EMT-Ps who were twitchy nicotine addicts in a building designed to faciliate both working out AND napping in a recliner while watching golf. No EMT-Bs tho, but we rolled out in response to private services so that may have been why I'd have been more jaded about it if I didn't find so many cooking-obsessed people to chat with in the language of food service $10 an hour is a huge upgrade from what I was offered by anybody (they had full info on how we did on practical and state tests) at the time lol. Pretty much my own personal ideal of "job that would be amazing under communism but horrific under the status quo", with "industrial kitchen worker" coming in as a close 2nd
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Dec 28, 2021 07:59
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Epic High Five posted:Airway clearance always got the #1 priority treatment so I guess it makes sense. I just wish the job itself actually paid a living goddamned wage because I really think I would've loved doing it but couldn't afford the newbie wages at the time and didn't savor the "chain smoking anxiety disorder guy with PTSD" long term standard I saw so much. Did enjoy my time in firehouses and talking food and coffee tho Wages are significantly better in large departments but the burnout is real—especially the last couple years. I started with no experience as an EMT around 9$ hourly in a slow rural system over a decade ago and I’m making more than triple that now. Now I’m grizzled, salty and have seen and done some incredible things. Without ego I can say I’ve saved dozens of lives, which is pretty loving cool. We are still largely behind the curve on shift diff and poo poo like that, so we will always have a retention problem for young people who don’t want to work night shift forever. But things have certainly improved. Go work part time somewhere! Also, it’s day one poo poo that you appropriately isolate yourself because you can’t help anyone when you’re dead from viral pneumonia and so I will still fully isolate myself in aerosolizing scenarios. Every time.
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Dec 28, 2021 08:00
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Epic High Five posted:tbh I was amazed to hear mouth to mouth was still standard...it's been like 10 years since I got certified and got my EMT poo poo but even then the norm was "just crack those ribs whatever you can breathe into them is a waste of time" When I first became a medic, the training was pretty much "Equal parts compression with rescue breathing" and has evolved over the years to the point that now the training is "Don't stop chest compressions for any reason, including to give oxygen to the person." If we're doing 2 person CPR we have someone using a BVM to give them oxygen that way while we do constant chest compressions. If you don't have 2 people you just do chest compressions until you get 2 people. Even as far back at the early 2000's when they believed rescue breathing was just as important as compressions, we were already being trained to just let them die, rather than do mouth-to-mouth yourself. Like covid is just the new thing in the long list of things you can catch from doing mouth to mouth. Our department technically has little one-way masks in our jump bags, that you can put over a person's mouth and breath through it, and it's not supposed to allow anything to come back from that person to you through the tube. But in this day and age I wouldn't even use that last-ditch option. If I don't have a BVM and someone to squeeze it they just simply don't get rescue breathing. Speaking of covid... I was informed on a medical call tonight that every single hospital bed in every hospital in our ambulance service's network, is currently full. And ambulances at little rock are averaging 2 hours sitting at the loading bay, -before- they will even allow them to offload a patient. The family of the elderly patient we were transporting to the ER was informed they had no choice in which hospital she was being taken to, and that upon arrive she would be triaged, placed in a wheelchair, and rolled right the gently caress into the ER. So the family should expect to sit with her for hours before a doctor would see her. We aren't even in the post-christmas covid wave yet. Things here are going to get bad(tm)
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Dec 28, 2021 08:12
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Main Paineframe posted:It doesn't seem like you're talking about systems at all here? It sounds like you're really talking about people, but if you acknowledged that it was all about people, you'd have to confront the core question: why is it that they believe the person telling them "this is impossible" instead of the person telling them "this is possible"? Sounds like the latter has done a really lovely job winning folks' trust and building a movement! If it's people vs people, then you can't avoid that question. But by swapping out one side for "systems", you can pretend that you've been defeated by magic wizard words materializing from nowhere, instead of facing up to your own failure to persuade. What? Not really mate. The idea that there is a class of people who benefit from current systems in place and seek to support them when they are part of it, or that people can exist inside and also against certain systems is not exactly groundbreaking philosophical work from where I am sat. The idea that "X amount of people benefit from Y current system and therefore have a preponderance to do Z" seems like fairly basic way of stating a social system. It's not saying "the evil hive mind of X seeks to preserve Y in order to murder everyone who thinks we should do A". It's simply looking at social trends and those systems and going "huh that's interesting". They believe the person because systems usually prefer to be preserved and, currently, a lot of people haven't seen the system fail bad enough (for them) that they choose to disagree. If you have a police department that is known to be corrupt but you've been told from birth by various different tv shows, radio plays, newspaper articles and books that "the police are here to protect you" then you usually go to the default assumption of "this must be a localised problem". This may be accurate but it also ignores the full scope of how mucked up the entire system is. You ascribe it to local factors as opposed to critiquing the whole edifice of what "policing" is. But people who have suffered under such a system consistently simply go "no, it's not individuals the entire system is hosed". This disconnect obviously has different tipping points for different people, and different groups of people, for obvious reasons such as class factors and so on. To say "you've done a lovely job" is understandable, but people usually gravitate back to what they believe works and, for many older people or people who are currently comfortable, that will be the current set up. This, unfortunately, does not seem to be sustainable in even the medium term. The systems that currently exist and give the appearance of providing Justice and so on, will continue to do less at providing Justice and instead simply provide the appearence of it. As the ability for them to exploit people becomes more and more egregious, such as if the Supreme Court continually blocked anything a state (by state I mean both places like Florida and also the idea of the Polity of the USA) does to the left of Pinochet, then increasingly critique will become a thing and disdain also. If you look at things like the war of independence in Ireland, it seems far more likely that if things are frustrated for long enough things come to the boil after some inciting event that then creates an excess of distrust in the current systems. Also, on a separate and purely personal note I think that condescension does no-one using it any favours and this seems to be a constant factor for many people here. The need to be personally invested in the act of argumentation more than the act of understanding is not especially helpful and I think is demeaning to the dignity of trying to talk through problems. poo poo-posting is better if only because it is usually short. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 09:34
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Main Paineframe posted:So what, you think you're bring the US to socialism if you just tell enough excuses? I'm sick as hell of ivory-tower revolutionaries insisting that over half of the American populace are anti-American traitors who need to be purged from all political involvement because they've been brainwashed by insert-group-here into wanting to destroy American society. Cool imagined posting enemy. I legitimately do not understand what in the world you're trying to argue here when my point is systems need to be changed not the entirety of the human species you goober. Fwiw I am a sub 50k a year public sector trans poc so noooooot sure who ivory tower anything is being directed at. The reflection in your monitor I assume.
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Dec 28, 2021 10:40
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LeeMajors posted:Mouth to mouth is not at all standard but still makes appearances in class via pocket masks. it's 'circulation, airway, breathing' now, from 'Airway, breathing, circulation' previously rescue breathing w cpr only shown benefits in drug overdoses, drownings, and resp arrests... otherwise no difference. Maintaining coronary perfusion via chest compressions is biggest key to getting rosc, so constant compressions are more important than pausing for breaths.
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Dec 28, 2021 14:06
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A big flaming stink posted:
E: also no, not doing CPR in a covid patient without PPE. If there was somehow amazing data transmission rates were zero, maybe. But I know it isn't that because that poo poo is aerosolized everywhere during CPR. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 14:38
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Ravenfood posted:When did the CDC (or representatives of the CDC) admit that? Or did you quote a link where someone unaffiliated with the CDC said that they thought the CDC was signaling that (which they are?). It isn't really necessary for the CDC to just say so, because there are other pieces of evidence that support the conclusion that that's what they did. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-ceo-asks-cdc-cut-quarantine-time-breakthrough-covid-cases-2021-12-21/ ^^ This article from Reuters from one week ago lays out that Ed Bastian (the CEO of Delta -- the airline, not the variant) "asked in a letter to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky seen by Reuters that the agency's recommended quarantine period for anyone who tests positive with a breakthrough COVID-19 infection be reduced to five days from the current 10," In his letter, he suggested that one could end isolation with appropriate testing. Lo and behold, the CDC changed its guidelines today to that very thing, though they rather left out that little bit about "appropriate testing," must have been a typo. When asked for comment by the article, the CDC declined. Most recent evidence shows that the average amount of days for viral clearance (that is, like, the point at which the virus is no longer propagating and one is no longer contagious) occurs at 5.5 days for vaccinated people, and at 7.5 days for the unvaccinated. According to the CDCs own website, ending isolation at 5 days results in about a 40% chance of transmission. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-options-to-reduce-quarantine.html In other words, they aren't only not "following the science." They're not even following their own conclusions, and it doesn't require a spokesperson at the CDC to directly say why for us to know that. Ershalim fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 14:48
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Yinlock posted:This is how the ruling class would prefer things to go, that whole "pandemic" thing will sort itself out once enough poors die, no need to cause a fuss over it. COVID was over the moment the ruling class worked out that its survivable if you have enough money, and its mostly a poor person's disease anyways. Now they just want everyone to go back to work and accept that infection is inevitable.
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Dec 28, 2021 14:49
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Ershalim posted:It isn't really necessary for the CDC to just say so, because there are other pieces of evidence that support the conclusion that that's what they did. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-ceo-asks-cdc-cut-quarantine-time-breakthrough-covid-cases-2021-12-21/ I object to quoting a video with a person saying the same thing and claiming the video says the CDC is "admitting it".
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Dec 28, 2021 14:57
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Nix Panicus posted:COVID was over the moment the ruling class worked out that its survivable if you have enough money, and its mostly a poor person's disease anyways. Now they just want everyone to go back to work and accept that infection is inevitable. and the president! but there was a terrible tragedy and he survived
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Dec 28, 2021 14:59
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Ravenfood posted:I object to quoting a video with a person saying the same thing and claiming the video says the CDC is "admitting it". Oh, well I guess that's true. I think it would be strange for the CDC to directly state that it was the center for disaster capitalism instead of disease control even now. Our government is more or less married to maintaining the illusion that it has interests other than money when it's blue. Carry on then.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:03
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