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Did Boris Johnson come down with COVID before Trump? I remember Johnson was out for like multiple weeks with a very serious case, but he bounced back to everyone's disappointment. If he could survive and shrug it off nobody with wealth and power was going down so all the lockdowns were really just inconveniences
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Dec 28, 2021 15:03
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Nix Panicus posted:Did Boris Johnson come down with COVID before Trump? I remember Johnson was out for like multiple weeks with a very serious case, but he bounced back to everyone's disappointment. If he could survive and shrug it off nobody with wealth and power was going down so all the lockdowns were really just inconveniences Tell that to Herman Cain 
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Dec 28, 2021 15:06
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Kalit posted:Tell that to Herman Cain Herman Cain already had one foot in the grave and another on a skateboard, though.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:15
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Josef bugman posted:What? Not really mate. The idea that there is a class of people who benefit from current systems in place and seek to support them when they are part of it, or that people can exist inside and also against certain systems is not exactly groundbreaking philosophical work from where I am sat. The idea that "X amount of people benefit from Y current system and therefore have a preponderance to do Z" seems like fairly basic way of stating a social system. It's not saying "the evil hive mind of X seeks to preserve Y in order to murder everyone who thinks we should do A". It's simply looking at social trends and those systems and going "huh that's interesting". Systems do not "prefer to be preserved", because systems don't have a will. Once again, it's a cop-out to avoid confronting the reality of wide public support for the things you don't like, as well as the fact that the only way to dismantle these systems is by spending a long time convincing people and winning them over. It's been a while since you spoke authoritatively on what you imagined American problems to be despite not being American yourself. But the overall problem with American police isn't that they're corrupt, though all armed social enforcers throughout history have been particularly vulnerable to corruption. The overall problem with American police is that they're active enforcers of white supremacy. This has been their primary purpose since their founding, and it's still clearly understood that way by a sizeable chunk of the population, even if these days it's all thinly cloaked in vague rhetoric about "bad neighborhoods" and "the wrong sort of people". Frankly, hypothesizing about leftist popular discontent reaching the levels of literal civil war and revolution in the foreseeable future because of a slightly-more-conservative Supreme Court is practically delusional. The left, as yet, has been unable to even muster "Tea Party movement" levels of popular discontent. People are mad, sure...but they're throwing in with the fash, because the modern left has lost touch with the populace and essentially handed the working class over to the far-right. And to be completely honest here? I assumed you were just talking bullshit because you didn't understand America, having never been there. But you live in the UK, so I would have thought that you would know better than to compare the Irish War of Independence of all things to social conditions in the US.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:32
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Fauci admits on national television that it is due to employer pressure, so I guess we can say "them" in this context. https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/status/1475614249766559748
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Dec 28, 2021 15:48
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Really gotta thread that needle of some people gotta die but we absolutely can't disrupt that supply chain. Too bad for you if you're immunocompromised and have to work at the meatpacking plant I guess.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:53
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Judakel posted:Fauci admits on national television that it is due to employer pressure, so I guess we can say "them" in this context. Non-partisan fact check: Fauci is not part of the CDC. This is misinformation taken out of context to slander our beloved institutions. Five Pinocchios. Do better.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:54
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Anthony Fauci is also not a CDC representative. Fauci has also been a problem as a communicator for a very long time because his position is normally functionally a senior grant administrator, not a comms figure.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:57
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Fauci not being part of the CDC doesn't make his message in that video that we need people back on the job, or the CDC's recent guideline decision any better. If anything its another pointed indicator of how the guidelines may be influenced.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:07
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Nix Panicus posted:Non-partisan fact check: So I know you're not serious here (but someone will be along shortly to post it in seriousness) but I expect different things from someone who is part of the explicitly political government groups working on COVID and the CDC. I expect one to be making political calculations and the other to not be. The CDC clearly is making them and its upsetting but still somewhat different. Because Fauci isn't internal, it makes it clear that the pressure isn't just from business directly, but from the Biden administration as well. Which is really lovely, but I expect business interests to have captured the White House and for that to change their messaging. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 16:08
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Judakel posted:Fauci admits on national television that it is due to employer pressure, so I guess we can say "them" in this context. What's the controversial here? It seems obvious on its face that we can't have a 10 day quarantine with omi considering how contagious it is and how mild it appears to be for the vaccinated. Anyway, dice rolled. Was out at a pizza sports bar in a southern tourist town last night. Great pizza, no masks, coughing to the left and the right of us. Fingers crossed!
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Dec 28, 2021 16:12
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Discendo Vox posted:Anthony Fauci is also not a CDC representative.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:12
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How are u posted:Was out at a pizza sports bar in a southern tourist town last night. Great pizza, no masks, coughing to the left and the right of us. Fingers crossed! Completely indistinguishable from something you'd see on Jimmy Dore's twitter.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:13
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Discendo Vox posted:Anthony Fauci is also not a CDC representative. Do you have opinions on agencies like the CDC weighting economic/political factors so much more heavily than health factors? Is this a new development, or is it just more visible with something like COVID?
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Dec 28, 2021 16:17
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An overwhelming majority of Americans think it's okay to go out to bars and restaurants and if Omicron isn't changing that I don't really see what will - maybe an extremely lethal variant, but let's hope we don't find out. I don't think we can put much blame on forums poster How are u (or Jimmy Dore, for that matter) for covid's persistence.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:18
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How are u posted:What's the controversial here? It seems obvious on its face that we can't have a 10 day quarantine with omi considering how contagious it is and how mild it appears to be for the vaccinated. Why do you feel that’s obvious?
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Dec 28, 2021 16:18
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How are u posted:What's the controversial here? It seems obvious on its face that we can't have a 10 day quarantine with omi considering how contagious it is and how mild it appears to be for the vaccinated. If we really cared about stopping it the opposite would still be true, more quarantine to prevent the spread. Like this is nakedly money taking precedence over people.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:26
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FizFashizzle posted:Why do you feel that’s obvious? Well if everyone is going to get it we need to keep society running. Anyway, we were some of the only people in the entire town wearing masks around. Got a few dirty looks from some rednecks in word shirts, bit otherwise no big deal. Interesting how every single dang tourist masked up for the masks required federal park buildings. Mask mandates work if the lovely electeds have the will to enact them. Looking forward to going back home where we have a mandate.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:28
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kdrudy posted:If we really cared about stopping it the opposite would still be true, more quarantine to prevent the spread. Like this is nakedly money taking precedence over people. Not just money! People also care about going out to dine and be served by a faceless server whose ability to pay rent or put food in their own stomach is entirely dependent on how generous you're feeling and how well the server jumped through your tip-earning hoops!
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Dec 28, 2021 16:29
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I know you mostly just want to fact check these days, but do you have opinions on agencies like the CDC weighting economic/political factors so much more heavily than health factors? Is this a new development, or is it just more visible with something like COVID? I don't know that they have weighted economic or political factors more heavily- I'd need to actually dig into the evidence base for the guideline change, which as far as I can tell no one has done in the thread in favor of slamming twitter links. Reducing quarantine periods often has to do with backfire effects related to overall compliance and/or capacity factors; if you can get people to actually limit their exposure behavior during the period where there's actual risk, it can be better than a broader requirement that they breach. The CDC isn't going to just ignore economic factors, either, inasmuchas people who can't work under guidelines for an extended period of time wind up, well, not following the guidelines. In this case, the rationale appears to be based on when in the disease period transmission is occurring. The MMWRs may be a good source on this, but I don't see anything in the immediate last couple weeks, and this change is probably the product of a few different sources. CDC has a reputation of being somewhere in the middle as an organization, not as independent of the administration as NIH or NAS, but also not as vulnerable to industry capture as USDA or FDA. I don't have a lot of insight into their culture, but I know that like a lot of US public entities, they're simultaneously a) the best, or close to the best, minds in the world at what they do and b) ridiculously, absurdly hamstrung due to many decades of underfunding and sabotage. IIRC their giant campus in GA was due to go under active renovation when the pandemic hit, which probably hasn't helped. Some context I wrote up on Fauci a couple years back from one of his previous embarrassing statements: Discendo Vox posted:Briefly, on Fauci and NIH:
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Dec 28, 2021 16:30
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kdrudy posted:If we really cared about stopping it the opposite would still be true, more quarantine to prevent the spread. Like this is nakedly money taking precedence over people. https://twitter.com/zak_toscani/status/1475614666567008256 It's a clear move to say 'working at Walmart is more important than your health. Now get to work you worthless bum'
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Dec 28, 2021 16:31
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Honestly this CDC poo poo just feels like the logical endpoint after they told people to stop wearing masks back in May.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:34
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Mellow Seas posted:An overwhelming majority of Americans think it's okay to go out to bars and restaurants and if Omicron isn't changing that I don't really see what will - maybe an extremely lethal variant, but let's hope we don't find out. I don't think we can put much blame on forums poster How are u (or Jimmy Dore, for that matter) for covid's persistence. I kind of hope we do find out, mers ifr with omicron contagion is one of the mildest things that could snap Americans out of it I think
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Dec 28, 2021 16:34
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Nix Panicus posted:COVID was over the moment the ruling class worked out that its survivable if you have enough money, and its mostly a poor person's disease anyways. Now they just want everyone to go back to work and accept that infection is inevitable. kdrudy posted:If we really cared about stopping it the opposite would still be true, more quarantine to prevent the spread. Like this is nakedly money taking precedence over people. Science and medicine in the US has nearly always been about money, not about public health, helping people or pure discovery (with some notable exceptions). The way our medical system is set up is proof of that, nevermind all the other examples of companies doing blatantly illegal things to get their drugs on the market or to screw over patients because they don't want to pay. The examples of ripping off people for life-saving treatments or making cures accessible only to those that can afford it. This includes public health institutions, who ultimately feel it is their position to advise elected politicians and then enact the plan and messaging those politicians choose, even if those plans and messaging go against what is best practice or in the best interests of the public (because the politicians allegedly represent the will of the public). Ironically, upping the standard of care for everyone would save a lot of money in the long run but that's not next quarter's profits, which is what really matters.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:39
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Lib and let die posted:Not just money! People also care about going out to dine and be served by a faceless server whose ability to pay rent or put food in their own stomach is entirely dependent on how generous you're feeling and how well the server jumped through your tip-earning hoops! My post about it kinda got eaten by the owners of ski resorts et al are Very Mad
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Dec 28, 2021 16:40
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Discendo Vox posted:Anthony Fauci is also not a CDC representative. Forget the forest, this person is so fixated on a single tiny branch he can't even see the individual tree.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:40
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GreyjoyBastard posted:My post about it kinda got eaten by I'll believe it when it's signed into law. Talk is cheap.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:41
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Wang Commander posted:I kind of hope we do find out, mers ifr with omicron contagion is one of the mildest things that could snap Americans out of it I think MERS has a ~33% IFR, so you want tens of millions of Americans dead? That's your best case scenario? Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 16:41
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't know that they have weighted economic or political factors more heavily- I'd need to actually dig into the evidence base for the guideline change, which as far as I can tell no one has done in the thread in favor of slamming twitter links. Reducing quarantine periods often has to do with backfire effects related to overall compliance and/or capacity factors; if you can get people to actually limit their exposure behavior during the period where there's actual risk, it can be better than a broader requirement that they breach. The CDC isn't going to just ignore economic factors, either, inasmuchas people who can't work under guidelines for an extended period of time wind up, well, not following the guidelines. In this case, the rationale appears to be based on when in the disease period transmission is occurring. The MMWRs may be a good source on this, but I don't see anything in the immediate last couple weeks, and this change is probably the product of a few different sources.: The funny thing is the tweet of that interview on CNN that kicked off this discussion actually had Ranney talking about it. But apparently most people ITT didn’t even bother watching it  As far as newer studies/research about it that Ranney mentioned, I’m not easily finding them. But that’s just based on a quick google search for keywords and not reading through them. Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 16:43
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Lib and let die posted:I'll believe it when it's signed into law. Talk is cheap. Good news, then: the proposal survived drafting, public comment, and review (aka the incredibly boring and mostly mandatory federal regulation process). The final rule was announced Nov 22 and the first raises go into effect January 30. https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20211122
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Dec 28, 2021 16:48
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Good news, then: the proposal survived drafting, public comment, and review (aka the incredibly boring and mostly mandatory federal regulation process). The final rule was announced Nov 22 and the first raises go into effect January 30. quote:US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR ANNOUNCES FINAL RULE TO INCREASE MINIMUM WAGE FOR WORKERS ON FEDERAL CONTRACTS BEGINNING JAN. 30, 2022 So we're nationalizing the restaurant industry? Otherwise I'm not sure what this has to do with server/served culture in the US when it comes to hospitality industries. Why would you provide information on federal workers when the callout was specifically on diner culture in the US (eta: and its role in a public push to Get Back To Business)?
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Dec 28, 2021 16:51
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Main Paineframe posted:Systems do not "prefer to be preserved", because systems don't have a will. Once again, it's a cop-out to avoid confronting the reality of wide public support for the things you don't like, as well as the fact that the only way to dismantle these systems is by spending a long time convincing people and winning them over. Sorry, just to pick up on this bit, but systems are built to be self preserving. There's a reason that the king's kid is the next king, it's not because the vast majority of peasants are pro-serfdom.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:52
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't know that they have weighted economic or political factors more heavily- I'd need to actually dig into the evidence base for the guideline change, which as far as I can tell no one has done in the thread in favor of slamming twitter links. Reducing quarantine periods often has to do with backfire effects related to overall compliance and/or capacity factors; if you can get people to actually limit their exposure behavior during the period where there's actual risk, it can be better than a broader requirement that they breach. The CDC isn't going to just ignore economic factors, either, inasmuchas people who can't work under guidelines for an extended period of time wind up, well, not following the guidelines. In this case, the rationale appears to be based on when in the disease period transmission is occurring. The MMWRs may be a good source on this, but I don't see anything in the immediate last couple weeks, and this change is probably the product of a few different sources. Thanks. I'll admit that adjusting guidance to maximize compliance is not something that I've thought of. My expertise is just in the biology of it, and the current data suggests that omicron can be transmitted from asymptomatic individuals at 8+ days, nevermind delta which is still circulating -- I'm not confident enough in any single data source to post and defend it here but we know that five day isolation for "improving" but positive individuals is clearly incorrect advice because it sends a great number of infectious individuals with marginally effective masks out into the workforce. Consequently, they must be considering other factors. I can't imagine it comes down to "ah, nobody is gonna quarantine for 10 days anyway" when this comes down the pipe immediately after business interests (e.g. airlines) recommended shortening quarantine.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:52
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Discendo Vox posted:Anthony Fauci is also not a CDC representative. Who cares. He is involved in public health decision-making. That's good enough and gives one insight into the logic behind this move.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:54
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Mellow Seas posted:MERS has a ~33% IFR, so you want tens of millions of Americans dead? That's your best case scenario? We've all been hit hard with the "end of history" ray our whole lives, anything that snaps us out of it before we commit full national suicide is good yeah
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Dec 28, 2021 16:54
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Mellow Seas posted:An overwhelming majority of Americans think it's okay to go out to bars and restaurants and if Omicron isn't changing that I don't really see what will - maybe an extremely lethal variant, but let's hope we don't find out. I don't think we can put much blame on forums poster How are u (or Jimmy Dore, for that matter) for covid's persistence. This is kind of where I’m at with it all. Our society has failed to handle COVID even remotely adequately from the beginning, and I don’t see that reversing course anytime soon. I live in a major American city with some of the tightest restrictions in place in the country, and most people still don’t really care. Sure, they put the mask on if they walk into a store or a Starbucks or something. But business or work meetings? Social settings? Ha. The predominant attitude I encounter on a daily basis is, “Meh, if you’re vaxxed gently caress it, you’re fine.” I’m not defending that attitude at all, but it definitely makes it hard for me to see how current trends of apathy amongst large swathes of the populace re: COVID precautions are going to change barring some kind of “black swan event escalation of COVID”. ~40% of the country is actively hostile towards them because of their political beliefs, and “not giving a poo poo” has definitely set in with large portions of the rest.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:54
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tokyo reject posted:This is kind of where I’m at with it all. Our society has failed to handle COVID even remotely adequately from the beginning, and I don’t see that reversing course anytime soon. I live in a major American city with some of the tightest restrictions in place in the country, and most people still don’t really care. Sure, they put the mask on if they walk into a store or a Starbucks or something. But business or work meetings? Social settings? Ha. The predominant attitude I encounter on a daily basis is, “Meh, if you’re vaxxed gently caress it, you’re fine.” Yeah people don't seem to get that this is the new normal
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Dec 28, 2021 16:56
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Judakel posted:Who cares. He is involved in public health decision-making. That's good enough and gives one insight into the logic behind this move. You refusing to know things about how the government works, or what Fauci's position is, or what his communications have been, does not give you insight.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:56
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Lib and let die posted:So we're nationalizing the restaurant industry? Otherwise I'm not sure what this has to do with server/served culture in the US when it comes to hospitality industries. Why would you provide information on federal workers when the callout was specifically on diner culture in the US (eta: and its role in a public push to Get Back To Business)? Because it applies to tipped workers in restaurants et al on and closely related to federal land. It's not that relevant to the get back to business component, insofar as ski resorts that have to pay their employees $15/hour rather than peanuts would still like their employees working, but you were also (rightly) complaining that diner / tip culture in the US kinda sucks. This is good news on that front for the people it covers, and for the tea leaves on the Biden administration's various factions apparently not ALL being opposed to a $15 minimum wage increase.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:57
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The working class aren't throwing in with the far right, the working class are primarily the targets of the far right, because they're mostly nonwhite and women. And they primarily don't vote, because they correctly recognise there being nothing in it for them, on top of there being massive efforts by both parties to make sure they don't vote, and they don't have the option to vote for a candidate who represents them. The left is continually, actively, violently and murderously suppressed by both major political parties through every means available to them.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:58
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