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CoT is the first book I ever had to wait for and, oddly enough, I remain fond of it. I think its structure around the Cleansing is pretty cool, in particular.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:57
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Yeah I still don't really get the hate, I read it when it came out and enjoyed it, and read it in full each time I go through the series and enjoy it.
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Jan 11, 2022 14:19
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Hollismason posted:I think its in the books that Ashaman that are bonded can't be compelled by their Aes Sedai. It is. They talk about it in AMOL, the Tower sister's plan is to bond the strongest Dedicated she can find and force him to tell her who has the most potential for the other sisters to bond. That plan doesn't work because shenanigans, but they do mention specifically that her plan wouldn't have worked anyway because you can't use the bond to compel a channeler.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:54
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Ahh okay I'll pay closer attention when I get back to amol, it's by necessity the one I've read the fewest times...
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Jan 11, 2022 17:56
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Gambor posted:It is. They talk about it in AMOL, the Tower sister's plan is to bond the strongest Dedicated she can find and force him to tell her who has the most potential for the other sisters to bond. That plan doesn't work because shenanigans, but they do mention specifically that her plan wouldn't have worked anyway because you can't use the bond to compel a channeler. It's how their bond is done, the male one is different and can be used to compel female channelers. The female version can't compel male channelers. Different weave or something like that. The male version is almost like the three oaths, the way the sister bonded to Logain talks about it. She has to follow his orders even if he's not actively doing anything to compel her.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:31
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That's something that *for sure* won't make it into the show. They've already neutered sai'din and sai'dar. Man, I really hope the next season is better than the last 2 eps of the first. Reflecting on it, it was pretty rough and they seem to be making huge changes just for their own sake.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:34
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How are u posted:That's something that *for sure* won't make it into the show. They've already neutered sai'din and sai'dar. The last 2 episodes were directly and hugely impacted by COVID interrupting filming and then introducing a bunch of restrictions. This limited things like hand-to-hand combat scenes, the Blight scenes, and others. On top of that, Mat's actor dropped out leaving them trying to figure out a way to reshoot/plot their way through. For instance, I am like 99% sure that Loial was not going to get stabbed originally, instead it would have been Mat being stabbed or the dagger taken away. There may have been changes made to fit with their overarching plot, but there were also changes forced on them by circumstances.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:50
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Yeah I'm less concerned about the quality of the final two episodes and more concerned about the frantic pacing of the entire season due to the episode amount and runtime.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:25
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Bunch of disjointed thoughts below. Apologies RE: Nerdy Nightly I like how they were upset that random MacGuffins were added in episode 8 with no prior introduction. The Horn of V and the Sa-angreal. And they hated the "she has a tell" and the "defense" of Fal Dara, just like this thread hated them. In their review of the book they liked that the horn had been mentioned like 100 times by the time they even made it to Shadar Logoth. They were upset the book prologue was cut. They liked that it started to explain what's at stake, as the show hasn't really attempted to explain the stakes at all and is a major weakness. And they made a point that turning the show into the mystery of "who is the dragon?" kind of comes at the expense of developing what makes the non-dragon characters special. And they were mad the show just withheld the information to figure out Rand was the Dragon all along. I also just re-watched the Red Letter Media review of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. And their major complaint is that everything is just so fast and tries to not give the viewer enough time to think about how dumb anything is. They just relentlessly move the plot forward without any time for anything to breath and just shoehorn in MacGuffins out of nowhere. "The movie is like an outline for 3 seasons of a tv show" - Rich Evans. I feel like we're getting the JJ Abrams/Rian Johnson: Disney Star Wars approach to adapting WoT and that is not a good thing. And right now we're in the "force awakens" stage of bargaining that for a first chapter of the installment it was a decent start, IF they fix the problems in future installments and go someplace interesting with it. And that IF is doing a lot of heavy lifting right now and we saw how poorly that turned out for Star Wars. Can Rafe and company still turn this into an amazing show and adaption? Yes. I'd grade the first season a C+. It was acceptable, but it could have been a lot better... but it also could have been a lot worse. Even if it stays at this quality I'll still watch the whole thing. But I don't feel confident recommending it to people IRL yet.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:16
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oh yeah the horn reminds me that presumably there's no need for a hunt of the horn so no Gaul and no faile and no reason for slayer to be in the two rivers and and and. Sure am glad some book nerd who isn't me got to consult that giving perin a wife to fridge would have no plot significance 
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Jan 11, 2022 20:27
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In what way does the Horn being hidden under the throne of Fal Dara instead of at the bottom of a pool of liquid saidin mean there will be no Hunt for The Horn? You seem to be assuming that the location is public knowledge and not a closely guarded state secret. There's no evidence of that.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:32
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The horn is found, stolen, recovered, and blown by the end of book 2, we don't even meet Faile or other Hunters until book 3. They can still establish that the hunt has been called even if we, the viwers/readers, know that it's already been found, which is literally what happens in the book. Or we can make a bunch of assumptions based on nothing. The fact is the show is going to keep being different from the books in various ways. If you can't accept that very fundamental truth that it's not a 1-to-1 direct adaption, then just don't watch and save yourself (and everyone else) the torture of you wasting your time.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:41
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:The fact is the show is going to keep being different from the books in various ways. If you can't accept that very fundamental truth that it's not a 1-to-1 direct adaption, then just don't watch and save yourself (and everyone else) the torture of you wasting your time. Pretty sure that folks can both accept this and also critique it. I enjoyed 7/8ths of this season and look forward to season two.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:56
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How are u posted:Pretty sure that folks can both accept this and also critique it. I enjoyed 7/8ths of this season and look forward to season two. Well I enjoyed all of it. NOW WHAT
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Jan 11, 2022 20:56
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How are u posted:Pretty sure that folks can both accept this and also critique it. I enjoyed 7/8ths of this season and look forward to season two. Pretty sure making a giant assumption of all the characters they will cut because of one change isn't critique. You can check my post history in this thread and see that I have also been critical of minor changes they've made like Nynaeve's background or Mat's dad but I haven't jumped to the conclusion that those changes are going to remove characters or change major plot points.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:14
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Pretty sure making a giant assumption of all the characters they will cut because of one change isn't critique. Did I say characters cut? Sorry if I was unclear. What I was referencing when I said I'm *sure* they won't put in the show was the idea that the male-initiated bond on a power-wielding woman could compel her into obedience, while the bond initiated by a woman onto a power-wielding man can not. They really seem like they're afraid to get into gender essentialism at all, so far, so I would expect that to be cut.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:37
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I don't think the need for the hunt for the horn has been cut, but I don't see how they have time for it. Seeing as they didn't even have time to mention the Horn's existence or explain what it does before digging it up from under the throne.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:12
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How are u posted:Did I say characters cut? Sorry if I was unclear. What I was referencing when I said I'm *sure* they won't put in the show was the idea that the male-initiated bond on a power-wielding woman could compel her into obedience, while the bond initiated by a woman onto a power-wielding man can not. Submarine Sandpaper posted:oh yeah the horn reminds me that presumably there's no need for a hunt of the horn so no Gaul and no faile and no reason for slayer to be in the two rivers and and and. Also, I'm lazy and won't go find it, but the same thing was said when the episode aired. People are assuming that there will be no Great Hunt because in the show there exist a small number of people who secretly already know where it is.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:30
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Is that the same user?
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Jan 11, 2022 22:31
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is that the same user? No. Which really begs the question why the first one decided they were the one being spoken to.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:32
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is that the same user? It is not, you can tell by the quotes having different names. That's my point, in fact.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:33
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th3t00t posted:I don't think the need for the hunt for the horn has been cut, but I don't see how they have time for it. Seeing as they didn't even have time to mention the Horn's existence or explain what it does before digging it up from under the throne. Someone points to a boastful knight in a random town. "A thousand idiots like him rode out this spring to hunt across the world for that horn. so they can sound it at the Last Battle, and we've already found it." Just like that, the TV show has explained everything important the books did.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:37
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seaborgium posted:It's how their bond is done, the male one is different and can be used to compel female channelers. The female version can't compel male channelers. Different weave or something like that. Obviously we'll never know, but it does make me wonder if the weave the Asha'mon are using to bond Aes Sedai is interacting with the existing weave from the Oath Rod somehow. Like maybe if an Asha'mon bonded a Windfinder, he wouldn't be able to compel her the same way because there's no Three Oaths affecting her for the weave to latch onto. 
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Jan 11, 2022 23:04
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Well I enjoyed all of it. Go back to Shayol Ghul, fuckman Killer robot posted:Someone points to a boastful knight in a random town. "A thousand idiots like him rode out this spring to hunt across the world for that horn. so they can sound it at the Last Battle, and we've already found it." Just like that, the TV show has explained everything important the books did. I'm not worried that the entire world hasn't been established yet, but this would be a really lovely way to do it. Show, don't tell and all that. I suspect the Chase for the Horn will be a significant arc of the second season's beginning, and the importance of the Horn can be spoiled out over two or three episodes. Show what happens when even the rumor of the horn gets out, people dropping everything to go to Tear when a Hunt is called, people selling a dozen fake imitations, people willing to steal and kill over those same fakes... Meanwhile the gang are desperately trying to get it back and can't explain just what it is they're chasing
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Jan 11, 2022 23:06
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DarkHorse posted:Go back to Shayol Ghul, fuckman How exactly do you show that and not tell it? It's entirely exposition.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:07
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They could just call the hunt for the horn because a darkfriend got the loving horn and holy poo poo we gotta get that back.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:15
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DarkHorse posted:Go back to Shayol Ghul, fuckman Why would it be lovely when it's exactly what the books did, telling about how the Hunt for the Horn is going on and people everywhere are looking for it and/or selling it without really ever having it more than background and rumor? It was just a thing of distant rumor that got repeated again and again and it was only "in the now" when an actual Hunter comes up and then it's just part of their backstory. It won't get the repeating again and again, but in exactly the same way that the TV show didn't have a dozen different inns and farmhouses for Rand and Mat to visit, or how there weren't a dozen different scenes setting camp between Taren Ferry and Shadar Logoth, or how Elayne's not going to complain about Nynaeve's snoring a dozen times. Because I can say that five books into my reread RJ sure liked to tell, rather than show, and he sure liked to do both repetitively in a way that would need hundreds of episodes of show to bring to the screen.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:43
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The Great Hunt isn't much better than the first novel with this time it being another Macguffin that the group has to go after. The story gets much better book 3 onward so them working in stuff from 3 and such would be a good thing.
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Jan 12, 2022 01:49
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I remain optimistic because the things I think are most important which are 1) the characters and 2) the various cultures and factions have been handled well so far. For example the warder/Aes Sedai dynamic, or the traveling people. I just hope they do justice to the complexity of the Seanchan. That they’re conquerors who enslave channelers, yet leave the places they conquer often better off for the average people who live there than before is pretty fascinating. I think they will though. The show has actually been more nuanced in their depiction of some characters than the early books were. Liandarin being one example. I even felt some sympathy towards her at one point. theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jan 12, 2022 |
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Jan 12, 2022 03:01
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The big gold pacifiers were a little bunk though.
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Jan 12, 2022 03:47
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Invalid Validation posted:The big gold pacifiers were a little bunk though. I could understand some sort of mask looking kind of good, in theory, but yeah those seemed weird. Damane speak, plenty.
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Jan 12, 2022 03:54
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Yeah people were like "they removed the collars because it could be kinky" and its like "uh, and pacifiers are supposed to be less kinky?"
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Jan 12, 2022 03:55
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They are exactly the right amount of extra for the Seanchan, which is like the empire of extra. Also please enjoy this map from instagram which is also very extra. 
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Jan 12, 2022 04:11
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MegaZeroX posted:Yeah people were like "they removed the collars because it could be kinky" and its like "uh, and pacifiers are supposed to be less kinky?" More likely leashes presented a difficulty or danger on set.
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Jan 12, 2022 04:24
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They could just have collars a bracelets without the leashes. The mouth thing is dumb.
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Jan 12, 2022 04:30
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Hollismason posted:They could just have collars a bracelets without the leashes. The mouth thing is dumb. From memory, they did have collars and bracelets. It just that they also added the mouth things.
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Jan 12, 2022 04:49
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Killer robot posted:Someone points to a boastful knight in a random town. "A thousand idiots like him rode out this spring to hunt across the world for that horn. so they can sound it at the Last Battle, and we've already found it." Just like that, the TV show has explained everything important the books did. All they had to do was have the characters talk about the horn a couple times earlier in the season… but they didn’t
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Jan 12, 2022 05:23
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Hellbore posted:From memory, they did have collars and bracelets. It just that they also added the mouth things.  Yeah they do have separate bracelets and fancy metal neck pieces things that seem to be conspicuously made of the same kind of metal. So maybe they are just doing away with the leashes and changing the design. But then why the pacifiers also? And the neck pieces look rather too bulky to carry around, conceal, and slap on people by surprise against their will as happens quite often in the books.
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Jan 12, 2022 05:26
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We're going to have to wait and see damane on screen for more than a couple of minutes to be sure. For all we know, the "pacifiers" are a ceremonial thing for important occasions like this landing. Not necessarily claiming that they are, just that we have very little screen time at this point.
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Jan 12, 2022 05:29
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Hargrimm posted:
I read something that theorized the gags were inspired by specific (horrible) slave gag devices but I can't find the article now.
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Jan 12, 2022 05:57
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