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They can force the bbc onto a more commercial footing if they want but to compete with Netflix and co it’ll just have to track younger and woker + it’ll backfire massively as the older generation that moans about left-wing bias also watches strictly etc religiously and will whinge immediately about any interruption to the flow of their light entertainment slurry Even the powers behind the scenes are dreaming with the idea that without the dead hand of the state tipping the scales the media landscape would rebalance in their favour. twitch/tiktok already ate murdoch alive he’s just so necrotic he hasn’t noticed yet Rustybear fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 11:06
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There are nuggets of golden corn in the BBC, but they are embedded in a huge piece of poo poo. Sure you can rifle through and separate all the nuggets of golden corn from the poo poo, but at the end of the day, you'll still just have poo poo covered nuggets of corn. I find it equally odd that people are defending literal state propaganda and brainwashing because said propaganda machine produces some content that they enjoy.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:21
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josh04 posted:Incredibly odd libertarian turn in the thread imo, bringing out "the free market will provide so there's no need for a socialised alternative", "gently caress you got my youtube videos" and even "taxation is theft". Peter Kropotkin on The Great French Revolution posted:After the night of August 4, these urban insurrections spread still more. Indications of them are seen everywhere. The taxes, the town-dues, the levies and excise were no longer paid. "The collectors of the taille are at their last shift," said Necker, in his report of August 7. "The price of salt has been compulsorily reduced one-half in two of the revolted localities," the collection of taxes "is no longer made," and so forth. "An infinity of places" was in revolt against the treasury clerks. The people would no longer pay the indirect tax; as to the direct taxes, they are not refused, but conditions were laid down for their payment. In Alsace, for instance, "the people generally refused to pay anything until the exempts and privileged persons had been added to the lists of taxpayers." Does that make the French communards some kind of Ron Paul weirds for being able to tell the difference between a fair tax with representation, a tolerable tax, and a tax that was a trifle to the rich but an excuse to harass the poor? Or the poll tax rioters? Or the water meter refusers? The BBC isn't well trusted. ScotNats say it has a unionist bias, Brexiters say it has a remainer bias, leftists say it has a fiscal right bias, conservatives say it has a social left bias, young people say it isn't relevant to them, regions say it ignores them. They all might even all be right, it has a specific establishment bias that somehow manages not to protect it from a wrecker establishment. The only way I can think of to begin unpicking that is to have communities decide what terms to payment are acceptable in return for what level of involvement, and the only way I can think of realistically implementing that is by funding it from general taxation and income and having a part of the programming decided by participatory budget, which has been shown (generally, but especially and repeatedly in Latin America) to heavily reduce both perceived and actual corruption and community disengagement overnight. Or they can keep doing what they do in a wrecking environment and then probably get wrecked.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:22
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How was the BBC during the Labour years again? Ie were they still a party mouthpiece but against the Tories? Folk (in general) still trust the BBC, so cynically, this could also be seen as a move to strip the next, non Tory, government of one of their main propaganda machines. It's not like the Tories care because they've got hooks in almost all other news outlets.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:23
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Kin posted:How was the BBC during the Labour years again? The Graun in 2003 posted:an academic analysis that shows the corporation displayed the most "pro-war" agenda of any broadcaster.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:28
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Kin posted:How was the BBC during the Labour years again? Kindof, yeah, but the Tories really went out of their way to control it via appointments, threats/regulation and policies. e: More blairite than anti-Tory I guess.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:28
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fuctifino posted:There are nuggets of golden corn in the BBC, but they are embedded in a huge piece of poo poo. Sure you can rifle through and separate all the nuggets of golden corn from the poo poo, but at the end of the day, you'll still just have poo poo covered nuggets of corn. Brainwashing. lol not quite. As for state propaganda, please show me where the state propaganda is any different from the line taken by corporate owned media? You think it'll get better when the BBC is on the FTSE500?
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Jan 17, 2022 11:30
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Guavanaut posted:Does that make the French communards some kind of Ron Paul weirds for being able to tell the difference between a fair tax with representation, a tolerable tax, and a tax that was a trifle to the rich but an excuse to harass the poor? Or the poll tax rioters? Or the water meter refusers? I'm not defending the BBC in its current incarnation or the concept of BBC News in any incarnation. I think leftists should and usually do perceive that the license fee is a boondoggle deliberately attached to a state service to emphasise that it is a burden on individual taxpayers and that the license fee is largely irrelevant to the question of "should we have a socially-run entertainment service". As someone mentioned upthread, "the tories will always make this bad" is not an argument we accept when it's about busses, trains or healthcare.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:31
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forkboy84 posted:Brainwashing. lol not quite. Using long running embedded soap opera storylines to alter public opinion is just, erm... what then? e: The whole 'We must save the BBC' energy has the same vibe as people who think the same about the Labour party. fuctifino fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 11:32
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we should have a socially run media platform but the bbc is not that, not anything close to that, and not salvageable into that being state-owned/sponsored doesn't mean anything when the state in question is a capitalist one, see also the police.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:39
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fuctifino posted:Using long running embedded soap opera storylines to alter public opinion is just, erm... what then? Nonsense? Although you're probably right, EastEnders has a history of raising awareness and understanding about all sorts of health and social issues.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:42
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Failed Imagineer posted:Found a compelling case for the existence of the Beeb this morning https://twitter.com/ProdTally/status/1361093867626504194
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Jan 17, 2022 11:51
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fuctifino posted:Using long running embedded soap opera storylines to alter public opinion is just, erm... what then? I think the line between brainwashing & propaganda is a lot thicker than you. Miles wide. I also think that in the scheme of the BBC's sins, Eastenders being anti-cannabis or whatever the gently caress you're mad about is pretty loving low down. To be clear, I think the BBC is worth saving despite what it is today. Because of what it can be, and what it has been. Nobody here is denying the BBC as it stands is poo poo. But if you can't see the value of a state funded but independently run news & media source that doesn't have advertisers to kowtow to then I don't really know what to say. That the BBC hasn't been independently run in ages is kind of a moot point. Think why the the Tories, even after having completely compromised the BBC still want to get rid of it.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:58
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forkboy84 posted:I think the line between brainwashing & propaganda is a lot thicker than you. Miles wide. I also think that in the scheme of the BBC's sins, Eastenders being anti-cannabis or whatever the gently caress you're mad about is pretty loving low down. The cannabis stuff was a commercially embedded storyline on ITVs Coronation Street, not the BBC, and I only mentioned that as I saw first hand how long running stories can be embedded into soap operas to condition the public. I mentioned it because a senior retired police chief drunkenly boasted to people I know that the the government and police had been regularly embedding storylines in Eastenders to condition the public since the launch. I've mentioned all of this in previous posts, but I've tried to bold the important part. If that isn't a form of brainwashing to you, then I really don't know what to say. quote:To be clear, I think the BBC is worth saving despite what it is today. Because of what it can be, and what it has been. Ah so I was right, it's exactly the same vibe as 'We must save the Labour Party'. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:06
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i no longer care about the BBC, and want to know which poster has returned in Prole form
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Jan 17, 2022 12:06
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fuctifino posted:a senior retired police chief drunkenly boasted to people I know that the the government and police had been regularly embedding storylines in Eastenders to condition the public since the launch. I think the BBC is pretty shite but c'mon lol this is some third hand conspiracy poo poo, you can't expect people to take this as fact.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:09
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Disgraceful of the BBC to have Dot Cotton look directly into the camera for twenty minutes and repeatedly tell me to murder and eat my dog. Also, the characters from The Archers are gangstalking me, I can tell because of the daily broadcasts I get from them on my tooth fillings.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:10
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forkboy84 posted:I think the line between brainwashing & propaganda is a lot thicker than you. Miles wide. I also think that in the scheme of the BBC's sins, Eastenders being anti-cannabis or whatever the gently caress you're mad about is pretty loving low down. Here's the distinction that needs to be made. The BBC as is always reflects bias towards the government, whoever that government may be. If it is replaced by the Tories, its replacement will always reflect bias towards the Tories regardless of who is in power - unless the Tories somehow offend the owner, by, for instance, not doing everything he wants. It would be like replacing a state run newspaper with the Daily Mail.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:11
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It's a shite situation when defending the stick they beat you with is your best option.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:12
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Carrier posted:I think the BBC is pretty shite but c'mon lol this is some third hand conspiracy poo poo, you can't expect people to take this as fact. Without hard evidence, no. But it's helped form my opinion. The people the ex police chief boasted to were board members of Norml-UK, UKCSC and other orgs who I know and trust well, and they all reported identically after that famed NCC dinner. Said police chief then drunkenly boasted that they were going to embed a VC funded storyline in Coronation Street to condition the public to accept medi weed, and low and behold, 9 months later there was the Izzy story that mysteriously ran side by side with Tendo Consulting's and Privateer Holdings #EndOurPain marketed campaign. I have an informed opinion that isn't based out of some whackjob conspiracy. I was at the heart of all of this as it was happening.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:19
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Jedit posted:Here's the distinction that needs to be made. The BBC as is always reflects bias towards the government, whoever that government may be. If it is replaced by the Tories, its replacement will always reflect bias towards the Tories regardless of who is in power - unless the Tories somehow offend the owner, by, for instance, not doing everything he wants. It would be like replacing a state run newspaper with the Daily Mail. This implies that we won't have a thousand year
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Jan 17, 2022 12:20
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On the subject of weed, yesterday was my 13th anniversary of being sentenced for my cannabis crimes. I managed to find the local newspaper's text of the article:quote:A CANNABIS campaigner who admitted supplying the class C drugs to other pain sufferers has escaped a jail sentence - but received a stern warning from a judge. 
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Jan 17, 2022 12:24
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Is there somewhere we can find out about specific examples of this on the BBC? Like what Eastenders stories were being pushed by the government, as opposed to just confirming to typical social standards because of limited imagination?
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Jan 17, 2022 12:28
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HopperUK posted:Is there somewhere we can find out about specific examples of this on the BBC? Like what Eastenders stories were being pushed by the government, as opposed to just confirming to typical social standards because of limited imagination? I haven't watched it in years and don't follow any storylines, and can only guess. The police chief didn't go into specifics, as he was purely focused on wooing the other attendees with 'look how much power we have' to get them to sign up to the NCC. He failed, on account of being a drunken letch, and the fact he wanted the NCC to be nothing more than a dictatorship where everyone had to blindly agree to his decisions. And for the record, everyone at the dinner thought he was bullshitting about being able to embed stories until the Izzy story started airing.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:34
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gently caress was that 13 years ago? I remember thinking if they'd sentenced you for that it was probably going to be legal by the time you were done anyway... naive! You posted those amazing audio clips of your fiddle playing and what you said about why you were posting them... heartless they even considered it. Of all the goon made media I lost in hard drive crashes that still annoys me the most.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:37
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fuctifino posted:I haven't watched it in years and don't follow any storylines, and can only guess. The police chief didn't go into specifics, as he was purely focused on wooing the other attendees with 'look how much power we have' to get them to sign up to the NCC. He failed, on account of being a drunken letch, and the fact he wanted the NCC to be nothing more than a dictatorship where everyone had to blindly agree to his decisions. Yeah but that was on Corrie, you said, right? They also have product placement on Corrie. The idea that outside interests can get stories placed there isn't startling at all. I'm concerned specifically with the BBC since that's what we're all talking about. And 'please put a storyline in your soap to convince people that medical cannabis is okay to use' isn't really horrifying which is why I would like examples of more sinister versions of this.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:39
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IllusionistTrixie posted:This implies that we won't have a thousand year That is the purpose of getting rid of the BBC, yes. Got a PM from Prole, claiming their real identity - although of course that cannot be proven. I will not pass it on, nor would I even if they hadn't asked me not to, but I can tell you that they are definitely not Pissflaps. Hopefully they are on the level and will be back soon.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:40
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HopperUK posted:Yeah but that was on Corrie, you said, right? They also have product placement on Corrie. The idea that outside interests can get stories placed there isn't startling at all. I'm concerned specifically with the BBC since that's what we're all talking about. And 'please put a storyline in your soap to convince people that medical cannabis is okay to use' isn't really horrifying which is why I would like examples of more sinister versions of this. Yes, but he boasted that the police and government had been inserting storylines in Eastenders since the soap's launch. And the inserted Coronation Street storyline was sinister, as it was designed to freeze out any chance of home growing or non-profit social supply. It's sinister, because they reconditioned the public into finally accepting that cannabis was a good medicine, but not the non pharm stuff, as that could cost you your mind, home, baby, job, partner, liberty, life, reputation etc., but not this safe cannabis in a spray bottle. It's sinister because the storyline wasn't publicly identified as being commercially purchased. It's sinister because cannabis is still out of reach of many sick people, and sick people are still being needlessly arrested and prosecuted for the crime of wanting to be well. It's sinister because all this happened alongside a complete takeover and VC funded astroturfing of the entire community. Genuine activists didn't get a say in any of it. It's sinister when I've had friends who ended up committing suicide rather than face prosecution and be without their meds. Isomermaid posted:Of all the goon made media I lost in hard drive crashes that still annoys me the most. There's a load of mp3s archived here if you want: https://soundcloud.com/stuwyatt fuctifino fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 12:48
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presumably they do this with corrie also tho
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Jan 17, 2022 12:49
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the tv license is a regressive tax, it's easy enough to dodge but lots of people wouldn't steal a paperclip from work and worry about these things you can hide behind wanting to reform the bbc or w/e but you need to start with the funding structure as the money drives everything else
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Jan 17, 2022 12:51
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The daytime soap Doctors definitely had public information stories inserted in it, I know because I knew someone who used to be a freelance scriptwriter and the producers would say we need a storyline about diabetes to tie in with this government health programme or whatever. She definitely had to do a couple of weed psychosis stories. It would not be at all suprising if this is true of EastEnders as well.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:55
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Jedit posted:Here's the distinction that needs to be made. The BBC as is always reflects bias towards the government, whoever that government may be. If it is replaced by the Tories, its replacement will always reflect bias towards the Tories regardless of who is in power - unless the Tories somehow offend the owner, by, for instance, not doing everything he wants. It would be like replacing a state run newspaper with the Daily Mail. This gets mentioned a lot but I'm not sure how much I agree. The BBC is careful to temper criticism whenever the license fee is being waved around, but I remember plenty of criticism of ID cards when Blair was trying to get them thrown around. And Brown didn't exactly get favourable coverage - in fairness this is during the election period but even so - note that everyone gets a chance to comment but there's no mention of the actual comments she made that made him say she was bigoted. If you want to say the BBC is biased towards the establishment then that I would accept, but then I don't think that's a good reason to keep it around. At least if it is replaced by a private entity, it won't have that veneer of impartial authority that it currently claims. Plenty of "the truth is in the middle" folks just implicitly trust the BBC and that is incredibly damaging.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:59
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If we accept that the BBC is a state mouthpiece that also, in its non-political programming, produces some excellent stuff, then I'd ask what we would actually gain by losing it? We'd lose the good stuff, but it's not like the 'independent' media isn't also stuffed full of Tories who'd do just as much to body any perceived left-wing threat. As far as I can see, minus the BBC we'd just be in exactly the same place we are now but with none of the niche documentaries etc and even more private control over the media landscape. Hardly any great victory really. The only big problem with the organisation (relative to any other media org) is that we're conditioned to see it as this completely impartial, trustworthy source, but surely we can challenge that without tearing the whole thing down? I don't know, I don't really care with a capital C, but I'd miss a lot of the BBC's output if it was gone.
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Jan 17, 2022 13:00
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drat it, now I'm curious. Oh well. Please be
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Jan 17, 2022 13:00
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I also hope Seaside Loafer is doing well and has recovered from his ordeal, what a lovely bloke.
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Jan 17, 2022 13:01
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 Good Health Sea Loaf
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Jan 17, 2022 13:04
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Yeah all that said I won't celebrate the death of the BBC or anything. But I've been resigned to this outcome for a while already, and at this point the BBC has inflicted so much damage on the left that we can't even save it if we wanted to. Imagine if Corbyn comes out to defend the BBC now - that will just be taken as further proof of a left wing bias and the Tories will eviscerate it anyway.
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Jan 17, 2022 13:05
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ThomasPaine posted:If we accept that the BBC is a state mouthpiece that also, in its non-political programming, produces some excellent stuff, then I'd ask what we would actually gain by losing it? We'd lose the good stuff, but it's not like the 'independent' media isn't also stuffed full of Tories who'd do just as much to body any perceived left-wing threat. As far as I can see, minus the BBC we'd just be in exactly the same place we are now but with none of the niche documentaries etc and even more private control over the media landscape. Hardly any great victory really. The only big problem with the organisation (relative to any other media org) is that we're conditioned to see it as this completely impartial, trustworthy source, but surely we can challenge that without tearing the whole thing down? The point I suppose is that people itt are not generally advocating its removal, but also not proposing to expend serious energy in defending it. You're right that the BBC disappearing wouldnt be a "great victory" but I'm also not going to lose any sleep over it.
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Jan 17, 2022 13:07
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the license fee is a regressive stealth tax & should be abolished, and any state broadcaster will inherently be a state propaganda tool, but "broadcasting as a public service" is nonetheless a noble ideal & should be protected imo. Bit baffled that this is a controversial take in here. Stuff like the kids programming, sports coverage & so on is unambiguously good, & the free market cannot be trusted to replicate it however, this is not so much a "perfect/good" argument as "perfect/pretty much terrible but nonetheless does some good, & the private sector will happily take over all the terrible stuff anyway so it's still a net benefit to have the exact same poo poo but with some actual good as well". Like, the reason for the sustained political attack on the BBC is precisely because of the public service stuff, the state already gets all the other terrible poo poo it wants from the BBC everywhere else e: sebzilla posted:The point I suppose is that people itt are not generally advocating its removal, but also not proposing to expend serious energy in defending it. You're right that the BBC disappearing wouldnt be a "great victory" but I'm also not going to lose any sleep over it. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 13:10
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The license fee is a regressive tax but also a completely optional one whether or not you actually watch BBC stuff, so...
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Jan 17, 2022 13:15
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