(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Ardennes posted:Granted, while I am sure there are secrets to glean, at the same time Chinese tech is always there in many ways. I would say the fear is stripping any possible advantages away from the US by merging any useful tech into existing Chinese systems. Yeah thats def most realistic thing that would happen. Whether it shows up in their current air fighters as an upgrade package or in a new one is whats up in the air in the scenario.
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Jan 26, 2022 15:55
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| # ? May 27, 2024 06:35 |
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Ardennes posted:Granted, while I am sure there are secrets to glean, at the same time Chinese tech is always there in many ways. I would say the fear is stripping any possible advantages away from the US by merging any useful tech into existing Chinese systems. Between the F-117 shootdown, the Bin Laden UH-60 crash, and all of the evidence of leaks from either the F-22 and F-35 teams or their subcontractors, it’s not like any of the technology or materials are secret, so much as time consuming to produce. By all accounts China and Russia’s new aircraft are very capable, they just entered service later than their American counterparts. A lot of the Technological Advantage stuff seems to be cope as NATO realized they would get rolled over by Warsaw Pact at any time from the early 70’s on, coupled with the 1991 Gulf War being a turkey shoot perfectly timed to redefine the US military in the public imagination. Seriously - I’m beginning to wonder if the US hadn’t rolled over Monkey Model T-72s would the public still go along with a new Sergeant York every fiscal year? Read up on the Bush-era conventional land systems projects - all insanely expensive boondoggles that went on for a decade or more! New Amtrak for the Marines - overcomplicated expensive piece of poo poo. M109 Replacement (named ”Crusader” while the Iraq War was starting) - overcomplicated expensive piece of poo poo. Stryker - mixed results, MGS was an overcomplicated expensive piece of poo poo. Putting a million sensors and computers on a system may not be driven by military necessity, I hate to say it. This is a public forum, but just the amount of stuff in a NATO artillery formation that won’t work because the Russians are leaps and bounds better at Electronic Warfare really takes the shine off the Network Centric Warfare approach that we’d always have an unbeatable technological edge and can transmit and network anything, all the time, with no consequences. We started training our signallers as linesmen again, after getting rid of the trade in 2006 because “who needs field phones in the age of satellites and computers?” Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 16:36 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 15:55
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Didn't China already steal the f35 design and then strip out all the useless poo poo and make it a functioning plane
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Jan 26, 2022 16:00
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Jose posted:Didn't China already steal the f35 design and then strip out all the useless poo poo and make it a functioning plane Yes. They also made a domestic turbofan engine for it, albeit with Russian assistance, while Very Smart Defence Commentators were still insisting that China could never produce a domestic engine, or even handle the machining or production of materials. As proof they said that China was incapable of producing points for ballpoint pens. Then they said well, it could never be as good as Russian engines (the implication being even those are nowhere near  engines), and by all accounts its very good. Then they said that China could never produce them in any number, and they seem to have. Finally, they said China would be unable to modify or update them, but it seems like they’ve been making steady improvements without disrupting production.What’s wild is that whenever this happens, nobody ever admits that they were wrong. Being a Defence Commentator seems to be the easiest loving job in the world because you just have to say that fan blades or high temperature alloys are too sophisticated for the Workshop of the World to produce, and when they do you get to dismiss it out of hand and move on to the next thing. Seriously - go back 5-10 years and you’ll see speculation that China was just producing airframes without engines to intimidate the west and for domestic Communist propaganda, that none of the aircraft would enter service, it’s insane.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:11
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Cao Ni Ma posted:The thing that keeps military budget analysts awake at night is them getting the extremely expensive boondoggle and actually making it work and for cheaper than they ever could. Not an issue for the military industrial complex because now they can lobby some congressmen/senators to buy their new boondoggle thats better than the old one at twice the price. They already have a working version of a f35 equivalent which by all appearances should start carrier operations in the next few years.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:11
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GlassEye-Boy posted:They already have a working version of a f35 equivalent which by all appearances should start carrier operations in the next few years. Uh excuse me Very Smart Defence Commentators assured me that China could never refit, modernize, crew or sail an aircraft carrier, not even 5 years ago and that it was all a bluff for domestic consumption.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:13
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The US spent however many millions developing computer-derived aiming tables and radar-fuzed shells for artillery The Soviets just crammed 300 tubes per kilometer of frontage
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Jan 26, 2022 16:13
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Frosted Flake posted:Uh excuse me Very Smart Defence Commentators assured me that China could never refit, modernize, crew or sail an aircraft carrier, not even 5 years ago and that it was all a bluff for domestic consumption. the mind of the Han is too shaped by their Confucian roots to accept that both air and sea could be combined into one vessel, they simply cannot perceive such a thing
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Jan 26, 2022 16:14
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It’s for real you guys honest the Russians will invade at the exact time and place we expect them to https://twitter.com/afp/status/1486351699237289990?s=21
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Jan 26, 2022 16:15
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https://twitter.com/EclecticHams/status/1485874644586573824
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Jan 26, 2022 16:17
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Frosted Flake posted:Between the F-117 shootdown, the Bin Laden UH-60 crash, and all of the evidence of leaks from either the F-22 and F-35 teams or their subcontractors, it’s not like any of the technology or materials are secret, so much as time consuming to produce. By all accounts China and Russia’s new aircraft are very capable, they just entered service later than their American counterparts. Yeah, in the 1990s, the MiC clearly started turning out mostly unworkable or flawed designs, many of them not entering service even after years of funding. (It happens but the OICW project went on for years and produced nearly nothing besides a grenade launcher.) I would say the Navy is in as bad of a shape: LCS is worthless, as is the Zumwalt and the Ford class is still not combat operational. Most of the rest of the Navy are a bunch of Cold War designs if not ships besides the Virginia class. Then you have the Air Force which is intentionally trying to trash some of its most successful planes just to push you know what. Admittedly, I don’t think most of the upgraded Cold War tech is THAT bad but certainly Russia and China have caught up. Also, yeah the Gulf War more anything was about PR. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:26 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 16:20
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sullat posted:During the 100 years war the English and French signed a truce, and so the French told their mercenaries that they didn't need them any more, could they please go away? Instead the mercenaries settled down and set themselves up as bandits and terrorized the countryside worse than the English. So the French, thinking quickly, invaded Asturias and Switzerland for the main purpose of sending the mercenaries off somewhere else to die. Both expeditions were soundly thrashed, so it was a success. lol this is fascinating to think about. i assume the swiss one was the old zurich war. which was the austrian one?
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Jan 26, 2022 16:23
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The Chinese would absolutely roll us in an actual fight but I feel like people are overestimating Russia a bit. I’m gonna guess the mafia state manufactured goods built by a labor force drinking floor cleaner might be cutting corners.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:28
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sexpig by night posted:the mind of the Han is too shaped by their Confucian roots to accept that both air and sea could be combined into one vessel, they simply cannot perceive such a thing what are you talking about, that's just fengshui
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Jan 26, 2022 16:29
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deathbysnusnu posted:The Chinese would absolutely roll us in an actual fight but I feel like people are overestimating Russia a bit. I’m gonna guess the mafia state manufactured goods built by a labor force drinking floor cleaner might be cutting corners. NATO is completely unprepared for a war with Russia and it's not even close.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:35
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copy posted:lol this is fascinating to think about. i assume the swiss one was the old zurich war. which was the austrian one? Not Austria, Asturias in Spain. Here.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:39
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Like the MiC has been making Tesla tier designs long before Elon Musk even thought of doing anything with his life besides being a slaveowner failson, the US military is at the point of collapse if it weren't for its marketing campaign that the Nazis would consider excessive
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Jan 26, 2022 16:41
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sullat posted:Not Austria, Asturias in Spain. Here. oh thanks. pardon my illiteracy lol
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Jan 26, 2022 16:43
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Ardennes posted:(It happens but the OICW project went on for years and produced nearly nothing besides a grenade launcher.) That was also an expensive, fragile piece of poo poo that required several complex sensors and a computer to function. It was withdrawn almost immediately from its Afghanistan trial, where most troops reported leaving it in the vehicles or FOB rather than lug it around. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, in both launcher and munition, the M79 (entered service 1961) was a better system. It’s the perfect example of the MIC running up the expense to do what the French army does with bullet-trap rifle grenades for a tenth of the cost.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:43
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I have personally witnessed a man wielding a similar weapon defeat dozens of well-trained, well-armed soldiers. Putin should beware.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:47
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Frosted Flake posted:Seriously - go back 5-10 years and you’ll see speculation that China was just producing airframes without engines to intimidate the west and for domestic Communist propaganda, that none of the aircraft would enter service, it’s insane. The defense industry commentariat are like every other journalistic field, in the sense that they will never be fired so long as they say what their paymasters want to hear.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:53
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Al-Saqr posted:It’s for real you guys honest the Russians will invade at the exact time and place we expect them to imminent russian invasion in 2 weeks forever
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Jan 26, 2022 16:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJhHjACjJjA
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Jan 26, 2022 17:00
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https://twitter.com/CatholicClod/status/1486020369064632325
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Jan 26, 2022 17:00
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https://youtu.be/YZ4z0QhD92Y
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Jan 26, 2022 17:06
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I hope Ukraine never joins nato because gently caress nato. Russia is completely justified in preventing another border state from joining a hostile military alliance controlled by the fourth reich, hth
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Jan 26, 2022 17:15
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deathbysnusnu posted:The Chinese would absolutely roll us in an actual fight but I feel like people are overestimating Russia a bit. I’m gonna guess the mafia state manufactured goods built by a labor force drinking floor cleaner might be cutting corners. I still don't see how any of these theoretical battles between the US against China or Russia don't end with nukes Like yeah it would be funny if China just blew a carrier out the water but then Biden would get the call while sundowning and that's the end of the world
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Jan 26, 2022 17:23
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Frosted Flake posted:That was also an expensive, fragile piece of poo poo that required several complex sensors and a computer to function. It was withdrawn almost immediately from its Afghanistan trial, where most troops reported leaving it in the vehicles or FOB rather than lug it around. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, in both launcher and munition, the M79 (entered service 1961) was a better system. Tangentially related, but it isn't just the MIC. It's everything to do with US public sector spending. It's grifting, incompetence, and corruption from top to bottom. Read this short article about one of the most banal things possible, an investment plan for railroads in Connecticut, and you'll see what I mean: quote:In effect, CTDOT is spending around $700 million annually on a system that, within the state, includes 385 single-track-km for Metro-North service and another 288 single-track-km on lines owned by Amtrak. Substantial spending projects in the United States, on military things as on so much else, are almost universally incredibly corrupt or incredibly incompetent or both. Military stuff is high-profile because it's flashy and gets in the news whenever the US wants to bomb people, but US spending is rotten from top to bottom and instead of ever improving anything or leading to a good end product, it wastes enormous amounts of resources on useless bullshit that makes contractors rich but never produces anything of value. If there's one big reason why China is going to eat the US's lunch in the long run, it's this.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:33
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Imagine how much cheaper our government would be if it just employed workers to do work. It's got to be at least one order of magnitude
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Jan 26, 2022 17:44
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vyelkin posted:Tangentially related, but it isn't just the MIC. It's everything to do with US public sector spending. It's grifting, incompetence, and corruption from top to bottom. Read this short article about one of the most banal things possible, an investment plan for railroads in Connecticut, and you'll see what I mean: Because this is a topic I've worked on--specifically CT rail and climate resiliency--I thought I could add a tiny bit more context. A huge problem for CTDOT (and DOTs in general) is that they're all stupid political footballs that are handicapped by legislatures from doing a lot of their work in house. Like the article says, it results in huge amounts of planning work being outsourced to consultants which jacks up the costs, proposed expensive rear end boondoggles, and ropes in politicians who want the donations. CTDOT has issues where they don't have the engineering and planning staff on hand that they need to be able to at the very minimum push back on all the dumb consultant bullshit. They're also required to outsource a lot of poo poo to the private sector that they really shouldn't have to. Which is really loving frustrating because the needs of the rail system are pretty straight forward: new rolling stock, new rails, straightening out some dumb curves and bottlenecks, and electrification and double tracking of the branch lines. We can't even get modernized bridges in some spots because the old swing bridges are "historic" and the local property owners fight replacement. So instead millions are spent on literally reinventing machinery to cast new parts and bearings for bridges that haven't been built in more than a century.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:54
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ikanreed posted:Imagine how much cheaper our government would be if it just employed workers to do work. It's this. Literally this.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:55
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I guess this means the moment of truth is here, whatever is in that written response probably sealed ukraines fate one way or another https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1486380384699011085?s=20
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Jan 26, 2022 18:08
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I dunno. Guys who get into terrorism tend to be really dumb. Even the seemingly normal middle class dudes who gravitate to terrorism are deficient in some of their thinking. the generally logical sequence of events im envisioning is that while telling the guy to knock it off the police said btw theres free mandarin classes at the vocational center to which the guy responded oh hm that does sound like a more constructive use of my time than learning how to be a terrorist
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Jan 26, 2022 18:15
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Minenfeld! posted:Because this is a topic I've worked on--specifically CT rail and climate resiliency--I thought I could add a tiny bit more context. A huge problem for CTDOT (and DOTs in general) is that they're all stupid political footballs that are handicapped by legislatures from doing a lot of their work in house. Like the article says, it results in huge amounts of planning work being outsourced to consultants which jacks up the costs, proposed expensive rear end boondoggles, and ropes in politicians who want the donations. CTDOT has issues where they don't have the engineering and planning staff on hand that they need to be able to at the very minimum push back on all the dumb consultant bullshit. They're also required to outsource a lot of poo poo to the private sector that they really shouldn't have to. Thanks for this, that's a great addition and unfortunately confirms all my prior assumptions about the fundamental problem at hand.
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Jan 26, 2022 18:16
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NVUA1/status/1486370892359864327 any day now
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Jan 26, 2022 18:18
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https://mobile.twitter.com/walterlekh/status/1486353068648288260
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Jan 26, 2022 18:22
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https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1486069001507717126
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Jan 26, 2022 18:22
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i dont understand i thought we were saving ukraines democracy shouldnt that mean that we need to do what their president wants and not the other way around
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Jan 26, 2022 18:25
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quote:Russia could invade at any moment, and it’s hard to see how Vladimir Putin, after calling up such a large force and publicly and angrily making his demands, can back off now without losing a lot of face. This whole thing feels like 100,000 of Anton Chekhov’s guns hanging on 100,000 walls. Once they’re introduced, they have to go off. The very real threat of a full-out land war in Europe for the first time in decades is absolutely terrifying. quote:My first reaction to the news that the Biden administration was considering beefing up NATO’s eastern flank with U.S. troops was, well, Putin got his wish. So much of this conflict has been the West scrambling to react to Putin, who imagines himself encircled by NATO forces ready to pounce and swallow up Ukraine. Now, he’s getting the exact thing he said he didn’t want. One of his demands was that NATO military posture be rolled back to 1997 levels, but now, as a direct result of his actions, NATO is even closer and more bristly than it was before. That’s not necessarily a bad thing for Putin, though. For one thing, it lends credence to his claim that NATO is breathing down his neck—how and why the alliance’s troops got there notwithstanding. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 18:28 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 18:25
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| # ? May 27, 2024 06:35 |
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Oh I'm sorry, is Zelensky trying to not get his country destroyed?
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Jan 26, 2022 18:27
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