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TipTow posted:https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489369384300785667?s=20&t=ozl_viHlgnMwJKTJRQUa7Q I love how Turkey at the same time does this and grants Ukraine licence to manufacture Turkish drones locally.
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Feb 4, 2022 15:58
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I love how Turkey at the same time does this and grants Ukraine licence to manufacture Turkish drones locally. I did notice that, and it seemed a little suspicious. How common is it for a country to just build their own munitions plant in another rather than ship the arms? That seems pretty risky from an IP standpoint. Unless this is supposed to be a U.S.S. Liberty thing.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:04
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QuoProQuid posted:the response to the reporter is absurd. if you are going in front of the press to make an outstanding claim about what Russia has done or is planning to do, you need to have something that is going to substantiate it. I mean, do they though? If the US is saying "this is what Russia's going to do," then the proof is if/when Russia does it. And if Russia doesn't do it (either because they changed their minds or if they weren't going to do it in the first place), then nothing about the situation has actually changed.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:05
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TipTow posted:I did notice that, and it seemed a little suspicious. How common is it for a country to just build their own munitions plant in another rather than ship the arms? That seems pretty risky from an IP standpoint. Unless this is supposed to be a U.S.S. Liberty thing. Happens all the time. Any major arms contract to a country with a bit of leverage will contain a 'x amount to be manufactured in country' clause. That's one of the reasons that Australia ditched their submarine contract with France and shifted to the US/UK offer - at every stage the proportion of the contract that was going to be produced in Australia was getting cut down.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:08
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean, do they though? If the US is saying "this is what Russia's going to do," then the proof is if/when Russia does it. And if Russia doesn't do it (either because they changed their minds or if they weren't going to do it in the first place), then nothing about the situation has actually changed. The goal is deterrence, yes, but at the very least they could have said they surveyed a set where the video is supposed to be filmed, or identified individual actors who were hired to participate, or intercepted emails or calls discussing the operation. When you throw out a seemingly baseless accusation like that, it only escalates the tensions. See also: how Russia claimed in a similar fashion that US wanted to stage a chemical attack in Ukraine. If you can't reveal anything, you might as well wait until the video is released and you evacuate your sources, and then immediately slam undeniable evidence of foul play.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:45
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean, do they though? If the US is saying "this is what Russia's going to do," then the proof is if/when Russia does it. And if Russia doesn't do it (either because they changed their minds or if they weren't going to do it in the first place), then nothing about the situation has actually changed. well, then it's unfalsifiable, isn't it? i suppose my core frustration is that it's the job of a free and robust press to push the government to back up its claims and to provide some semblance of public oversight. i understand the statement was primarily for russia and not a domestic audience but the state department should not be surprised when journalists want more information nor should they imply reporters believe russian misinformation when they don't uncritically accept whatever the us government is telling them this is ultimately tangential to the larger crisis (for which i believe russia is the unambiguous aggressor), but these kinds of interactions annoy me
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Feb 4, 2022 16:50
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QuoProQuid posted:well, then it's unfalsifiable, isn't it? Notably, also, that the willingness of the press to disseminate any and all official proclamations has served Russia extremely well since 2014, as it has made it incredibly easy for them to muddy the waters, especially combined with the usual bothsidism. Also, really, the proper to response to someone bringing up Alex Jones is to say that yes, that's the level as which Russian state media operates. Frankly it won't surprise me if the CIA thought they uncovered some major plot, but that was just the TV Zvezda producer deciding what to run on one Saturday night.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:57
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QuoProQuid posted:well, then it's unfalsifiable, isn't it? It's quite likely they have little more evidence beyond chatter that something is the sort of being meaningfully considered and have nothing more they can say without blowing sources. But raising awareness of others' escalatory schemes is not itself escalatory in itself.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:24
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It's all noise. Anyone paying attention can work out that Russia didn't start a massive mobilisation process months ago because Putin knew that in a few weeks that Ukraine was going to commit an atrocity somwhere in the Donbass that independent media won't be permitted to access.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:36
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  Russia is leading 2-1 atm. Futsal (indoor 5v5 version of soccer) is really big in EE.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:38
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Somaen posted:I'll try if I have an idea what are you actually arguing for aside from NATO disbanding I'm pointing out that NATO's interests lie in a peaceful resolution so as to not disrupt the status quo and, barring that, imposing as much cost as possible on Russia without spilling a single drop of troop blood or shaking their markets (in a way that affects elections). As such they're not going to back down from a confrontational position, but at the same time their intent to follow through on that is hamstrung, and if they can't kinetically impede an invasion then their best case scenario is that Russia tears itself apart diplomatically, economically, and militarily fighting Ukraine with as little political cost to themselves. So they lust for Ukrainian blood. As much as possible (well not too much, as that can quickly turn into a refugee crisis). The harder the Ukrainians fight by themselves the more cost they impose on Russia, and the harder Russia goes the more NATO leadership can bear the political cost of sanctions while Putin has to deal with increasing domestic unrest. This calculus is what informs NATO positions. Ukrainians and Russians of course have agency and can make their own choices in how to resolve their differences 
Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 18:00
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That's a weird way to put it. By that logic Ukrainians also lust for Ukrainian blood, and Putin lusts for Russian blood
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Feb 4, 2022 18:06
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Tangential news https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/ China cranking NATO https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1489564305494355979 Hungary cranking Ukraine Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 18:09
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Flavahbeast posted:That's a weird way to put it. By that logic Ukrainians also lust for Ukrainian blood, and Putin lusts for Russian blood Yeah the crucial bit missing from that chain of logic is that the costs NATO wants to impose on Russia only accrue if Russia invades. Nothing bad happens to Russia if it just doesn't start a war.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:12
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Putin is of course free to call things off. He has agency.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:13
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lol, our gov decided to blow their pegasus tokens on SEVEN THOUSANDS attack attempts on 500 devices belonging to the Supreme Audit Office employees, y'know the one entity whose stated goal is to control gov overreach.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:30
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Anne Frank Funk posted:lol, our gov decided to blow their pegasus tokens on SEVEN THOUSANDS attack attempts on 500 devices belonging to the Supreme Audit Office employees, y'know the one entity whose stated goal is to control gov overreach. I'd Like to See Ol Kaczynski Wriggle His Way Out of THIS Jam! Ah, well...
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Feb 4, 2022 18:38
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Well, duh
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Feb 4, 2022 18:42
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As a our local Lithuanian goon I have an opinion: Piss Good night gentlemen. I shall be cradling my cepelinas in my fallout shelter.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:03
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I think GBS is the other way.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:40
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Hungary has blocked Ukraine's accession to NATO's cyber center CCDCOE And more interesting news: Joint Forces Operation: no ceasefire violations yesterday This is the second time in two weeks no ceasefire occured.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:25
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Somaen posted:https://theins.ru/news/248363 I don't think this was given enough attention with goons who not unlike Putin love geostrategizing and are bored with Russia internal affairs. Kadyrov abducted the wife of a former federal judge (a lot of speculation why not the judge himself, they technically have immunity from persecution) because he has overlordship over every Chechen in the world. Reason why he done it is the sons of said judge live in Sweden and complain a lot about Kadyrov. The story started escalating, there was a 400000 men (yes, only men) rally in Grozny demanding bloody vendetta and a chechen member of parliament of pro Putin party uploaded a video swearing blood feud and promising beheading of the entire judge's family and everyone who translates the video into Russian. This made enough noise for Peskov having to say his powerful words of who knows what are we gonna do if russian law clashes with chechen blood feud. Complicated subject, impossible to tell, really. Also said it should handled by Duma ethics commitee, death threats surely by dealt with by ethics commetee. Finally Putin and Kadyrov had a personal meeting which wad interesting because 1. At night 2. At night when Putin's press people already reported him being in Beijing. 3. Meeting was denied by Kremlin at first but than Kadyrov posted a bunch of pictures from inside the Kremin. Kremlin than corrected itself and explained that Kadyrov reported to the president about Chechen vaccination rates and other nonsense. Nominally liberal Gasprom owned (lol) media Echo Moskvy posted a piece that this story is being forced by cowardly West because fascist Kiev fears furious Chechen fighters. In conclusion want to post a thing, I forgot where I read it that there are 2 decision makers in Russia: Putin and Kadyrov. The difference between them is that Putin makes decisions for the whole of Russia except Chechnia. And Kadyrov makes decisions in Chechnia except when in the rest of Russia. Sekenr fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Feb 5, 2022 |
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Feb 5, 2022 03:25
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I’m strongly doubting a 400k protest in a town of 300k.
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Feb 5, 2022 03:35
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Pripyat got some visitors! https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1489631583665627136?s=20&t=Ms5GQUMzwI3NRrwJS3yNmw
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Feb 5, 2022 03:47
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Here is the piece about the rally. I dont know what to beleive considering the state of journalism in Chechnia https://www.ekhokavkaza.com/a/na-miting-protiv-yangulbaevyh-v-groznom-sobrali-byudzhetnikov-i-studentov/31683249.html
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Feb 5, 2022 03:47
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Significant staffing movements confirmed by satellite overflight of several marshalling grounds, with significant build ups corresponding to the arriving elements or departures towards forward deployment close to the Ukrainian border. Lots of Rosguardia airlifting spotted heading towards Belarus and Crimea. Russian amphibious ships made port call at Latakia; might be intending to link up with the Pacific Fleet SAG that passed Suez before crossing the Bosporus. Also https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1489595458292957203
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Feb 5, 2022 04:23
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Conspiratiorist posted:Significant staffing movements confirmed by satellite overflight of several marshalling grounds, with significant build ups corresponding to the arriving elements or departures towards forward deployment close to the Ukrainian border.
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Feb 5, 2022 05:13
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Sekenr posted:Here is the piece about the rally. I dont know what to beleive considering the state of journalism in Chechnia
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Feb 5, 2022 05:36
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Bloomberg’s error today should clear up any doubt on how harmful the alarmist, conspiracy-minded US approach is. People are going to get seriously hurt if the west keeps this up. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-04/statement-on-publishing-error quote:Statement on Publishing Error With journalism like this, you’re not meeting Russian journalism where it’s at. You aren’t even that serious.
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Feb 5, 2022 05:43
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Yeah, publishing an article 8 years late is kinda sloppy.
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Feb 5, 2022 05:46
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OddObserver posted:Yeah, publishing an article 8 years late is kinda sloppy. What are you referring to?
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Feb 5, 2022 05:50
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mawarannahr posted:What are you referring to? 
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Feb 5, 2022 05:51
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mawarannahr posted:Bloomberg’s error today should clear up any doubt on how harmful the alarmist, conspiracy-minded US approach is. People are going to get seriously hurt if the west keeps this up. Seriously, what's the comedy of errors that goes from "single media outlet loving up" to "people getting seriously hurt"? And how is this the fault of "tHe WeSt"?
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Feb 5, 2022 05:53
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Cugel the Clever posted:lol, sure, some Ukrainian private on the frontlines is going to be perusing Bloomberg and decide that because a single media outlet is reporting invasion, it's time to _____? This escalates tensions and the more it happens, the easier and more readily will intervention be justified and enacted. I think the reason these articles were posted today is in part from the yet unsubstantiated statements the state department made very soon after getting in a row over phrasing with the Ukrainian president. Manufacturing consent is a controversial topic here, but I think this is what it looks like.
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Feb 5, 2022 06:00
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mawarannahr posted:This escalates tensions and the more it happens, the easier and more readily will intervention be justified and enacted. I think the reason these articles were posted today is in part from the yet unsubstantiated statements the state department made very soon after getting in a row over phrasing with the Ukrainian president. Manufacturing consent a controversial topic here, but I think this is what it looks like. Surprise, someone commenting on a topic without knowing there's been a war going on and off for nearly 8 years likes quoting racist genocide denier and dictator lover.
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Feb 5, 2022 06:05
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mawarannahr posted:This escalates tensions and the more it happens, the easier and more readily will intervention be justified and enacted. I think the reason these articles were posted today is in part from the yet unsubstantiated statements the state department made very soon after getting in a row over phrasing with the Ukrainian president. Manufacturing consent is a controversial topic here, but I think this is what it looks like.
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Feb 5, 2022 06:09
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OddObserver posted:Surprise, someone commenting on a topic without knowing there's been a war going on and off for nearly 8 years likes quoting racist genocide denier and dictator lover. Can you explain a little more what that has to do with this topic? Cugel the Clever posted:It was a private media corporation where someone who didn't know how to use their CMS properly accidentally published a draft article. It happens pretty frequently! It's not part of some wild conspiracy, just the product of boundless human incompetence. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy. I think the actions and statements that preceded this event made it much likelier to happen and contributed to the circumstances whereby it emerged. The government of the US seems motivated to increase tensions, and this is what I think is catalyzing a similar media process as the lead up to the 2003 Iraq invasion. That’s just my hypothesis, for which I have no strong evidence but a personal conviction based on things that have happened before. mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Feb 5, 2022 |
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Feb 5, 2022 06:20
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mawarannahr posted:Can you explain a little more what that has to do with this topic? Well, congratulations. You're living up to your literary hero by ignoring more than 13,000 dead, millions of refugees, and the country that single-handedly caused it staging troops in a way consistent with invasion because the only thing that exists outside US for your ilk are pawns for evil US plots. https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485862078091042816?cxt=HHwWgIC53YDs654pAAAA (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 5, 2022 06:34
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OddObserver posted:Well, congratulations. You're living up to your literary hero by ignoring more than 13,000 dead, millions of refugees, and the country that single-handedly caused it staging troops in a way consistent with invasion because the only thing that exists outside US for your ilk are pawns for evil US plots. Who do you think my literary hero is? What, specifically, is flawed about what I suggest is happening? Maybe I’ll learn something. … and what’s the tweet relevant to?
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Feb 5, 2022 06:55
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mawarannahr posted:What are you referring to? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
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