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Eric the Mauve posted:It's difficult to move upward from a number you named but your best bet is "from talking to other companies I've come to realize I've been undervaluing myself but you're still my first choice, if you can do $210K I'm in." You might at least get them up to $200, the worst thing they can do is draw the line lower. Wouldn't this scenario actually be fairly benign since the employer also named a number? As a candidate, I'd have some questions if you told me you expected to pay 200 and then offered me 160
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Feb 4, 2022 17:51
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I do at least have a bit of leverage in that I know they have been trying for months to fill a couple of other positions and I happen to know a few people that are looking and could do those jobs, and let them know. Of course I'm not going to share their names/contact info until after I've signed an agreement.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:01
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aperfectcirclefan posted:I did one of the interviews, it seemed to go well. I managed to "negotiate" them to 60k and hybrid. They said they'd get back to me by the end of the day with a proper job offer. 24 hours later and still nothing lmao. I think you mentioned something similar like this before about being ghosted, and while you should absolutely keep applying to more jobs in the meantime, HR is always significantly slower than they tell you. If they tell you "by the end of the week" or earlier, it's probably gonna be at least two weeks before you actually hear back. If they tell you two weeks, it'll probably be more than a month. Almost every single office job I've ever interviewed for (whether I got rejected or got an offer) took at *least* a week longer to get back to me than they said. One time I was certain that I wasn't going to be hired because there had been radio silence for over a month- then I got the job offer like two days later. I can only actually think of one company that said "we'll get back to you next week" that actually got back to me the next week. TL;DR- don't lose hope, they might still get you an offer, but keep applying elsewhere in the meantime. You'll get something!
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Feb 4, 2022 18:25
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HR has lots of important things to take care of before they can tackle sending out offers: 9am - 10am: Catch up on gossip and tv shows from yesterday 10am - 11:30am: debate where to go to lunch 11:30 - 1pm: lunch 1pm - 4:30pm: make the rounds in the office and moan about how busy you are. Starbucks run! 4:30pm: send status update to hiring committee with insufficient details on salary negotiations, leave for the day.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:48
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Ended up with an offer on an exciting position and a 40% salary increase because of the advice in this thread. It's simultaneously exciting and depressing that a smidge of arrogance creates so much gain. While filling out background check forms, I was bitching to my partner about how tedious it was. They said: "Just suck the dick and move on." It's sound advice, and I'm currently working on making a poster with that statement in Live Laugh Love font to hang in my work area.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:03
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Chaotic Flame posted:Wouldn't this scenario actually be fairly benign since the employer also named a number? As a candidate, I'd have some questions if you told me you expected to pay 200 and then offered me 160 Most people don’t negotiate and most people who do attempt to negotiate would take 160 if they threw out 180.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:20
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Woolwich Bagnet posted:Starting comp negotiations today in 2 1/2 hours so that's going to be fun. I caved and gave them a number at the start because I hadn't read enough, but it was 70% higher than what I make now, so I don't feel too bad about that. I also asked them what salary they would expect to pay and it was ~10% higher even than what I asked, so I think I have a hole to dig myself out of maybe. They want me bad enough that they had the VP of the department sell me even harder on it earlier this week. Since this post is too long for a thread title an we please restore the old thread title? “Never give a number JFC.” The reason the thread title was that was due to the number of goons stumbling into this thread like Woolwich has here (no offense dude) only after they screwed up. The thought being that people scrolling past the title would at least pick up “don’t give a number” before shooting themselves in the foot. Alternate title: Read this thread BEFORE interviewing. JFC Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 20:26
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Alternately, “Just Suck the Dick and Move On” works too 
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Feb 4, 2022 20:33
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Well, had the meeting. She asked me what I was looking for, I went to 210, we settled on 190, so I'm happy. On top of that a good starting bonus, and 60k for all moving related costs. And stock and LTI. But I'm not counting that because lol. And 20% salary bonus target at 100% funding. Company has gone through IPO, has several drugs in stage 2 and 3 clinical, so maybe it will be worth a lot in 2-3 years. Or maybe it will be worth nothing. Moved my title up 4 levels though so that's a win in itself as I can always leave in a year or two and make another leap. And I didn't even know this thread existed until this morning. I am dumb and overworked. edit: I will never make that mistake again though!
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Feb 4, 2022 20:39
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holy gently caress in re 60k moving costs are you relocating from like Moscow to San Francisco or something
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Feb 4, 2022 20:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:holy gently caress in re 60k moving costs are you relocating from like Moscow to San Francisco or something He's relocating to the Home of the Mole Men.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:holy gently caress in re 60k moving costs are you relocating from like Moscow to San Francisco or something Chicago to Boston. It's waaay more than I was expecting.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:04
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Woolwich Bagnet posted:Chicago to Boston. It's waaay more than I was expecting. ha ha join us in  thread
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Feb 4, 2022 21:10
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Hi all, I've followed the thread for some time and attribute reading this stuff years ago as a critical part of recognizing my own value, and starting to be way more assertive professionally in many different ways. It works positively emotionally, even if I've only had a few financial victories. I'm a licensed mental health therapist, over the last 2 years COVID really changed our landscape. Laws regulating teletherapy rapidly loosened in this and many states, and several national and local providers popped up online offering teletherapy contract work, essentially making a private practice much simpler and not requiring an office. I've had this passive stream of income for some time now. I left my full time job about two weeks ago. I was earning $74k a year, very good in this field. This was burnout and toxic workplace related and I didn't have a firm job in place. I'm exhausted by doing therapy sessions nonstop and it isn't emotionally sustainable for more than like 20 hours per week. Truthfully I've been thinking about some different sort of work with my licenses. I have a part time job on Mondays that pays well hourly but will never go full time, and I'm earning over $90 (minus contracting tax) per session for private practice, so I'm in a situation where I'm earning pretty decently right now but don't really want to go full time with the private practice. As a unmarried person without children I can keep myself afloat for the foreseeable future. An interesting position did come up and I just got the offer from a major national agency! It's something different, I'll be doing some therapy but there's other major roles too and a limit on the therapy role. It's a good offer, $100k per year which was the max of their quoted range. This is a newer program they are very excited about, and they have turned down a few therapists before me; they want to move quickly. PTO is 23 days a year, my last job was nearly 30 after 3 years, the 401k match doesn't kick in for a year; it's nice that it's hourly pay instead of salary and paid holidays, those are both new to me. As a result of accepting this job I'll need to quit my monday position, stop taking new private practice patients, move my existing ones to the evenings, and probably let them start dropping from treatment over the next several months without replacing them. This was always the plan when I started thinking about this job. I do have my sister's wedding coming up in May which I'll need off. I think my PTO bank is starting at 0, I REALLY wish that wasn't the case. I left the call at expressing great interest and needing the weekend to think it over. So I have the weekend to think over how I want to play this. I want to ask for more, maybe focus on the starting PTO balance, but when I look it all over my BATNA is really weak. I could walk away and play around with more private practice work from home for some time until something else comes along, but I don't want to do that forever either. Knowing the field this both a pretty great offer and something different which is really important to me. It might be a while before I find something tangential that pays like this again... it almost feels like the smartest thing is to just take the offer straight out. Jesus it's hard to just straight up accept an offer after you start thinking this way though!
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Feb 4, 2022 21:16
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If you just got the offer you can even frame it as a one-off thing when you fire it back. E.g. "thanks for the offer, [pleasantries go here] [Negotiation on salary and terms go here] Oh, and my sister's wedding is in May, so I'll be there on dates [a-b]. Since I'd start this spring, how would we handle this w.r.t. PTO accrual?" Just phrase it as "oh, here's x, how do we solve" instead of asking permission or anything.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:39
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ha ha join us in Excellent. I'll be flying out there in a couple of weeks to look at places to stay. Want to stay in Boston or East Boston. Commutes suck.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:51
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Macaroni Surprise posted:it almost feels like the smartest thing is to just take the offer straight out. I mean, here's the thing: imagine your roles are sort of swapped and there's this really cool poop-emoji bobble-head you want to buy off SA-Mart. You say "I'll take it for $100" and the seller says "I was thinking more like $120." Are you going to flip out and buy them a red "motherfucker" title? Or would you just say "well, dude, it's $100 or nothing"? The company has already sunk a bunch of time and energy into vetting you. You say they've tried and rejected past candidates, so you're the best they've seen so far. Why would they immediately burn that bridge when they could just politely say "no, offering you even $5 more would cause our entire company to go bankrupt." Your poor BATNA just means they if they say "we don't wanna negotiate" then you're going to take whatever they offered you in the first place. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't try asking for more first.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:15
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PTO is a thing that's either negotiable or not, but you won't know until you ask. If you think you're near the top salary wise I'd still go a bit higher there and then ask for the additional PTO. If they say "we can't budge on salary" then they'd more likely do the other, or vice versa. JohnCompany posted:Oh, and my sister's wedding is in May, so I'll be there on dates [a-b]. Since I'd start this spring, how would we handle this w.r.t. PTO accrual?" Yeup, that's not a negotiation thing, that's just a "How to deal with this". May is 3 months out, that's plenty of time.
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Feb 4, 2022 23:20
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Even if PTO isn't negotiable asking for it and being told "not negotiable sorry" is a useful way to segue into "well then in that case I'm going to need more salary."
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Feb 4, 2022 23:50
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:holy gently caress in re 60k moving costs are you relocating from like Moscow to San Francisco or something Our relocation, the actual packing and move is 100% covered, and we got $20k for incidentals, pretty sure we're taking a bath on the relocation. If you have a boat, RV/camper, motorcycle etc moving that poo poo, or sell/rebuy adds up really fast 60k sounds nice but the movers alone are gonna cost 30 and airfare/hotel/car rental/take out etc adds up fast Currently writing this from the couch of my ~$300/day Airbnb waiting for the movers to arrive (day 10 so far), gonna eat some of my $30 pizza delivery from last night
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Feb 5, 2022 00:26
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Democratic Pirate posted:HR has lots of important things to take care of before they can tackle sending out offers: Lol I wish buddy.
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Feb 5, 2022 01:45
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One thing about the pto conversation - there's a couple points of negotiation there, where you could negotiate how much you accrue per year, and how much they would front load it. So they may not budge on your yearly pto earning rate, but you may be able to get them to add 1 week on top of your balance for the first year. Some systems have you earn it per per period worked, others just load the whole balance in (usually with employees under contract).
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Feb 5, 2022 01:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:holy gently caress in re 60k moving costs are you relocating from like Moscow to San Francisco or something I would swear that at least twice companies have mentioned covering closing costs as potentially part of relo, but I didn't have a house either time so they moved on to other costs.
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Feb 5, 2022 02:57
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Boot and Rally posted:
I posted this about six weeks ago. The hiring manager said the group was expanding and will need new management in about 6 months. Five weeks ago I told them I'd be more comfortable with a position that retains or advances me as a manager, so I'd like that role. They pulled the offer an hour later. I was fine with it. They emailed me yesterday to say that things may have changed, but they didn't say that role was now open. I'm certain the HR person doesn't like me while the hiring manager is very interested, so the HR person is a bigger obstacle than usual. I'd like a new job, but not on the back of a goat rodeo.
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Feb 5, 2022 03:42
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Boot and Rally posted:I posted this about six weeks ago. The hiring manager said the group was expanding and will need new management in about 6 months. Five weeks ago I told them I'd be more comfortable with a position that retains or advances me as a manager, so I'd like that role. They pulled the offer an hour later. I was fine with it.
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Feb 5, 2022 04:00
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Dik Hz posted:This reads like 100% bullshit to me and you'd be trapped in the customer facing non-manager role for as long as they can string you along. One million percent this. It's this exactly.
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Feb 5, 2022 04:22
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Shipon posted:drat I should have asked in here earlier, I just finished the hiring process for an engineering (non-software) position for after I finish grad school this summer and in the initial screening call they told me the target range was 120-130k, and when I got the offer letter it was for 130k. They called me up the day before the offer letter was sent to tell me what the offer was - would that have been the time to negotiate or after I got the letter? It felt like it was pretty quick and on the spot and while I'm by no means displeased with the offer I wonder if I could have gotten a bit more (it's too late for that though I suppose). can I ask what type of engineering and in what area of the US? i am looking for electrical engineering positions and I think I have been completely hosed on salary for the last four years. but its somewhat close to what everyone else (out of college) got for the area. stump collector fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Feb 5, 2022 |
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Feb 5, 2022 08:32
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stump collector posted:can I ask what type of engineering and in what area of the US? i am looking for electrical engineering positions and I think I have been completely hosed on salary for the last four years. but its somewhat close to what everyone else (out of college) got for the area.
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Feb 5, 2022 09:32
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Ok, this may be dumb and I’m overthinking it. I signed the offer and addendum for my new position, but they haven’t counter-signed and given me a fully executed copy. I also haven’t gone through background check, etc. I haven’t given notice at my current company yet. I was planning on giving notice Monday, but should I hold off until I get a fully executed copy of the agreement? We’re an at-will state, so it’s not like they can’t yank the rug out whenever. Am I being paranoid?
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Feb 6, 2022 00:52
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Assuming you sent them yours Friday they could’ve simply not had time to read it yet. That said, no reason to move before they properly countersign and deliver you a legally binding document, the onus is on them here.
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Feb 6, 2022 01:02
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I didn't tell my last company I was leaving until the background check was complete and I had a firm start date. My opinion was until I had all that in writing, the job I was applying for was just wishes and aether.
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Feb 6, 2022 01:26
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Whenever I send a signed offer back, I always say "please confirm when you receive this and everything is settled on your end so I can deliver my notice" which seems to work to emphasize the priority.
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Feb 6, 2022 02:15
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Yeah not to make you nervous because 99% it will go through and everything will be fine but definitely don't give notice at your current job until new job confirms that you are Hired with a scheduled starting date.
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Feb 6, 2022 02:19
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In this WFH economy maybe just don’t give notice at all and double dip.
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Feb 6, 2022 03:22
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I'd be careful with that if you're under contract. 90% of the time that could be fine but there's certainly ways to get hosed up if new place finds out and it's a violation of what you signed.
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Feb 6, 2022 03:29
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I waited until my background check cleared as well before giving notice. Glad I waited because it took 2.5 months!
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Feb 6, 2022 04:28
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Democratic Pirate posted:In this WFH economy maybe just don’t give notice at all and double dip. I did this, I’d have to say (not that anyone is specifically asking) to really evaluate your life/situation carefully, what seems a good deal can quickly double up your burnout rate. I’ll hope for others to have better outcomes if they do go for this setup.
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Feb 6, 2022 06:21
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I've seen job positions get closed after someone had a signed offer letter, and I've seen new hires back out after signing. Don't put in your notice until you have the paperwork.
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Feb 6, 2022 07:25
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So when we say "Have the paperwork" and such, can someone who knows explain or link to some resource that goes into what is meant by that particularly? I mean, I know that an offer of employment has the new hire and a designee of the company sign it, but I don't know the process much beyond that, even though I've been hired a few times, since it's always a blur.
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Feb 6, 2022 10:48
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A background check is always going to be the long pole if the company requires it. Otherwise whatever they have you sign is enough.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:21
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