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Still a pretty small population, and we have probably good odds on suppressing summoning in our characters' lifetimes, so who knows?
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Feb 6, 2022 06:28
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thetoughestbean posted:Louisoix became a primal as well, as did the handmaiden to the queen of Bozja. Louisoux was imprisoned by Bahamut and tempered, Save the Queen (the sword) imprisoned Misija's ancestor when the Blades of Gunnhildr killed her. Primals likely hold themselves together better in the lifestream same as an Ancient, simply because of Aetheric Density. The fact that Primals are also beings of pure aether means they can likely retain their form in the lifestream much easier. But we know eventually they run out, that's the whole deal with Hydaelyn/Venat, they were slowly fading away and would eventually die once they ran out of aether, sinking into the lifestream to be reborn like anyone else. Jetrauben posted:It might also just take time, and of course Ysayle, and Haurchefant, and Papalymo, and Minfilia, all have a reason to wait before cycling themselves back in to be born again: you. Yes, you pull them back out even (much like in EW you can pull Hades and Hythlodaeus out of the Lifestream).
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Feb 6, 2022 06:36
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The logic of 'primal people are stuck there' would only really be able to use the Aitiascope as evidence if someone who channelled a primal was dead noticeably longer than anyone else while still being there, but that's just not true. The actual list of the dead we see in that, in chronological order of their deaths, was... 1. Rhytatyn (level 49, 2.0) 2. Livia (level 50, 2.0) 3. Moenbryda (level 50, 2.4) 4. Haurchefaunt (level 57, 3.0) 5. Ysayle (level 59, 3.0) 6. Nybeth Obdilord (level ??, 3.4) 7. Ilberd (level 60, 3.5) 8. Papalymo (level 60, 3.5) 9. Asahi (level 70, 4.3) 10. Minfilia (complicated, but somewhere between level 50, 2.55 and level 76, 5.0) 11. Amon/Fandaniel (level 83, 6.0) Ysayle isn't even the earliest death of the people we do see, so there's no evidence at all to claim that she's special. For extra bonus points: The undead NPCs in the Palace of the Dead also still seem to have their souls and memories, if only barely with connection to their actual bodies. This makes the actual earliest departed-without-soultrapped spirit we have to measure Mad Snake, who died at Cartenau. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 07:02
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Nessus posted:Ysayle was the only one who seemed to do it repeatedly and presumably independently Ysayle also had the same superpower as the WoL (or one of the same superpowers). Maybe you had to be a hear feel thinker to get fine control over that stuff.
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Feb 6, 2022 13:34
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FuturePastNow posted:Ysayle also had the same superpower as the WoL (or one of the same superpowers). Maybe you had to be a hear feel thinker to get fine control over that stuff. This is my new favorite term for those with the Echo and I look forward to using it exclusively.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:58
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If Zenos could lick the aether rock to become Shinryu again, that means Ryne could probably turn on Shiva mode at will now if she had a power source
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Feb 6, 2022 17:29
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FuturePastNow posted:If Zenos could lick the aether rock to become Shinryu again, that means Ryne could probably turn on Shiva mode at will now if she had a power source Honestly, at that point I'm gonna say they've just reverse engineered transformation magic the Ancients used. Seeing as Summoning Magic is very much just modified Creation Magic in the first place, summoning a shell of aether around yourself to be clad in the flesh of a divinity is basically what Hades does when he turns into a big spooky demon man thing. Especially because I'm pretty certain the Hydealyn look is Venat's personal transformation, as is Elidibus' WoL appearance based on his own battle transformation (hence having the same face as his younger self Themis whilst transformed). Just with an external aether fuel instead of the internal one that Ancients could have for the Shiva/Tsukuyomi/Shinryu transformations.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:35
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I know it wouldn't make sense and would go against the point of the Coils story, but I was a little sad Louisoux/Phoenix didn't pop up in the "ALL THE PRIMALS ARE HERE" sequence. Like, I wanted a little shot of Fourchenault quietly praying to himself, asking his father to look after his kids, and then Phoenix just explodes fourth, flying through the sky and into the ship while everyone is confused about where that primal came from.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:50
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Rhonne posted:I know it wouldn't make sense and would go against the point of the Coils story, but I was a little sad Louisoux/Phoenix didn't pop up in the "ALL THE PRIMALS ARE HERE" sequence. On that note, I can't be the only one who thought they were going to call the ship Louisoix when Fourchenault started making his speech, right?
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Feb 6, 2022 19:33
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DanielCross posted:On that note, I can't be the only one who thought they were going to call the ship Louisoix when Fourchenault started making his speech, right? Nope. Also Ragnarok feels kinda inappropriate if you consider its original meaning.
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Feb 6, 2022 21:08
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I expected the ship to look more like the one on the artwork
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Feb 6, 2022 21:11
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OddObserver posted:Nope. Also Ragnarok feels kinda inappropriate if you consider its original meaning. I mean it sort of is the twilight of the gods. Both Zodiark and Hydaelyn are dead, as is the entity that necessitated their creation.
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Feb 6, 2022 21:16
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To be honest, before the ship launched I had no idea what was supposed to be the front of the ship.
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Feb 6, 2022 22:53
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DanielCross posted:On that note, I can't be the only one who thought they were going to call the ship Louisoix when Fourchenault started making his speech, right? Was 100% certain they were calling it Louisoix's Hope in the vein of Nyunkrepf's Hope, yeah.
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Feb 6, 2022 23:14
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Kyrosiris posted:Was 100% certain they were calling it Louisoix's Hope in the vein of Nyunkrepf's Hope, yeah. 
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Feb 6, 2022 23:36
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Abhorrence posted:I mean it sort of is the twilight of the gods. Both Zodiark and Hydaelyn are dead, as is the entity that necessitated their creation. also aren’t all the primals that got summoned from the mothercrystal superdead now? like that was sort of the impression I got with them giving their aether up to the ragnarok. idk what happens when your aether gets turned into warp juice
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Feb 7, 2022 00:16
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kitten emergency posted:also aren’t all the primals that got summoned from the mothercrystal superdead now? like that was sort of the impression I got with them giving their aether up to the ragnarok. idk what happens when your aether gets turned into warp juice I doubt that, just because that'd completely take all those primals off the board, but it's the sort of thing they'd have to actually discuss, which they probably won't for a while. Which beast tribe do you think would actually be on board with testing that theory, though?
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Feb 7, 2022 00:45
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kitten emergency posted:also aren’t all the primals that got summoned from the mothercrystal superdead now? like that was sort of the impression I got with them giving their aether up to the ragnarok. idk what happens when your aether gets turned into warp juice They're not any more dead than when they get killed normally by the WoL, I don't think. It runs on regular ol' aether, not souls or whatever. Also, summoners can still summon them during their rotation 
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Feb 7, 2022 00:51
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Begemot posted:They're not any more dead than when they get killed normally by the WoL, I don't think. It runs on regular ol' aether, not souls or whatever. I wonder if we'll ever get any lore on what exactly Summoners are doing when they summon Ifrit/Garuda/Titan at 90. Are they just even more powerful egis? Did we pick up proper summoning from the loporrits?
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Feb 7, 2022 00:55
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Also primals seem pretty chill now? Bickering Garuda and Susano pretty much drained them of any remaining danger or menace they might've had, but it was also great. Bring on my new primal friends, I love them all.
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Feb 7, 2022 00:55
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Well as with a lot of FF things, it feels like it's more self-referencing FF8's airship and wrapping it in with the XIV Ragnarok internment hulks, etc. Same way how Bahamut draws on the FF staples more than D&D or the mythical fish. Now and then you might have something more strongly to its real life mythos like Scathach and Dunscaith but at the same time Cuchulainn is only loosely related by being present in the same set of raids, but with no greater lore implication. And then you have the Lucavi version which is altogether unrelated.
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Feb 7, 2022 00:57
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Rhonne posted:I wonder if we'll ever get any lore on what exactly Summoners are doing when they summon Ifrit/Garuda/Titan at 90. Are they just even more powerful egis? Did we pick up proper summoning from the loporrits? I think so, yeah. Kind of a shame we don't get any explanation for new abilities anymore, honestly. Some of the stuff in Shadowbringers and Endwalker could really use it, like summoning Phoenix or the DRK shadow clone.
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Feb 7, 2022 00:57
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Begemot posted:I think so, yeah. Kind of a shame we don't get any explanation for new abilities anymore, honestly. Some of the stuff in Shadowbringers and Endwalker could really use it, like summoning Phoenix or the DRK shadow clone. DRK's at least gets a nod in the level 80 quest description. Fray says it doesn't count as a reunion.
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Feb 7, 2022 00:59
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Cleretic posted:I doubt that, just because that'd completely take all those primals off the board, but it's the sort of thing they'd have to actually discuss, which they probably won't for a while. idk, “let us super murder your god or we’re all gonna die and/or you’re gonna get to see how essential sharlayan sees you” is a pretty effective argument.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:04
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Professor Beetus posted:Also primals seem pretty chill now? Bickering Garuda and Susano pretty much drained them of any remaining danger or menace they might've had, but it was also great. Bring on my new primal friends, I love them all. Well the primals reflect the wishes of those who summon them, and in that moment everyone is summoning the primals so that they can save the world together. It makes sense that they'd have a much more positive attitude what summoned for that reason.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:10
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Rhonne posted:Well the primals reflect the wishes of those who summon them, and in that moment everyone is summoning the primals so that they can save the world together. It makes sense that they'd have a much more positive attitude what summoned for that reason. Even if Garuda still is racist against Landwalkers she helps, which is very funny to me.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:14
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kitten emergency posted:summoner strikes me as the “job that would get you the most weird glances from passerby” I enjoyed this bit of stormblood where they play this dialogue and cut over to the WoL with this expression 
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Feb 7, 2022 01:15
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Professor Beetus posted:Also primals seem pretty chill now? Bickering Garuda and Susano pretty much drained them of any remaining danger or menace they might've had, but it was also great. Bring on my new primal friends, I love them all. I feel like that menace was already pretty low given that this was the xpack where we killed (a) a primal made out of (if I recall correctly) the entirety of the Garlean Empire's belief in their ideals and (b) a primal formed by the sacrifice of half the Ancients at the height of their power -- moderately weakened by the sundering. And we're well past "I would kill your god for fun" so yeah, not a lot of menace. Plus the menace of early primals is tied to the idea of beast tribes as an implacable foe willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy civilization, and that idea was rightfully thrown in the trash.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:32
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We also found both a cure of tempering and a way to recreate the WoL's immunity to getting tempered in the first place.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:35
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Yeah, I feel like as much as they've focused on this being an end to the Hydaelyn/Zodiark saga, it's also sort of an end to the Primals as we know them. No longer are they some impossible obstacle that only the Warrior of Light (and seven conveniently-on-hand Echo Users) can defeat, they're something any sufficiently powerful warrior can do battle with if they're summoned with malicious purpose...and the befriending of all the Eastern and Western Beast Tribes seems to have put us on the path such that aggressive summonings are likely to be far, far less frequent than they were before. Not only is our title of "Warrior of Light" going to be less important going forward, even our status as "Eikon Slayer" isn't going to be as unique or important anymore.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:59
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Rhonne posted:Well the primals reflect the wishes of those who summon them, and in that moment everyone is summoning the primals so that they can save the world together. It makes sense that they'd have a much more positive attitude what summoned for that reason.
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Feb 7, 2022 02:08
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Professor Beetus posted:Also primals seem pretty chill now? Bickering Garuda and Susano pretty much drained them of any remaining danger or menace they might've had, but it was also great. Bring on my new primal friends, I love them all. I want to go on the Susano party bus.
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Feb 7, 2022 02:49
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Unlucky7 posted:I want to go on the Susano party bus. See, this goon gets it. I love how pumped up Susano is both times we see him. Pumped to fight, pumped to save the world. I bet if you summoned him to get on the party bus he would be pumped for that too; the Andrew W.K. of primals.
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Feb 7, 2022 03:53
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You know, going back to before he was first summoned, Bunchin suggests that the kami will overlook your trespass on holy ground if you reunite the treasures and instead delight in your mischief-making. Susano was totally their way of rewarding you.
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Feb 7, 2022 04:39
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iPodschun posted:It’s this and also there’s dialogue from Livingway about the Loporrits’ form of creation magic that doesn’t involve tempering others, in contrast to the creation/summoning magic taught by the Ascians. Although this would not actually stop Primals from being able to temper people. The specific change they describe is that the method the Ascians taught includes a fervent desire to spread/expand their faith. Which leads to Primals who want to gain more followers starting with their initial summoners. The actual process of Tempering is just Aetheric Corruption/alignment, similar to how Sin Eaters and Voidsent are born. This is why Alisaie’s Porxie can cure it, as the Porxie simply undoes the alignment shift. In theory therefore you can temper anyone provided you have something to corrupt/misalign their Aether. So Primals being focal points of an Aetheric Element are still able to Temper, they just won’t automatically do so anymore. This is also why you have standard Leviathan tempered and the completely transformed squid people. You can cure the former but not the latter. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 05:23
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Professor Beetus posted:See, this goon gets it. I love how pumped up Susano is both times we see him. Pumped to fight, pumped to save the world. I bet if you summoned him to get on the party bus he would be pumped for that too; the Andrew W.K. of primals. Unlucky7 posted:I want to go on the Susano party bus. Give us more hosed up primal fusions a la Eden. I want to see Rasano/Suvana, or even Sephisano/Suphirot.
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Feb 7, 2022 06:50
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The Amal'jaa, Kobolds, etc have no reason to summon their primals again because you have personally solved all of the problems that got them to that situation to begin with. We might find new primals in Meracydia or the New World but that just means more peoples' problems to solve.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:15
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FuturePastNow posted:The Amal'jaa, Kobolds, etc have no reason to summon their primals again because you have personally solved all of the problems that got them to that situation to begin with. Actually, I suspect that at least one of the tribes does still have reason, they just aren't mad enough to do it right now. The Ixal came into conflict with the Shroud because of rampant logging, but we've seen no evidence that the reason they did that rampant logging has actually been solved. They live in Xelphatol, and Xelphatol sucks for arable land you could grow trees on, but Ixali construction still relies heavily on lumber. Either someone needs to teach them alternate building methods, or someone's gonna need to find a better place to get wood. We solved the purely interpersonal issues between beast tribes and the main cities, but we didn't do squat to solve more substantial problems like resource scarcity.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:27
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Cleretic posted:Actually, I suspect that at least one of the tribes does still have reason, they just aren't mad enough to do it right now. The Ixal came into conflict with the Shroud because of rampant logging, but we've seen no evidence that the reason they did that rampant logging has actually been solved. They live in Xelphatol, and Xelphatol sucks for arable land you could grow trees on, but Ixali construction still relies heavily on lumber. Either someone needs to teach them alternate building methods, or someone's gonna need to find a better place to get wood. Isn't the reason they live in Xelphatol to begin with because the Elementals evicted them from the Shroud due to the clear cutting, at which point they basically decided to keep taking lumber from the Shroud as a "gently caress you" to the Elementals for kicking them out?
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Feb 7, 2022 13:31
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So you're saying that to solve the Ixal's problems, I need to kill the Elementals.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:46
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