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These all sound like decent why but what if... Get this... We give the city a health bar?!
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Feb 3, 2022 03:50
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OnimaruXLR posted:I honestly don't know how you do a team game that isn't just Ultimate Alliance style without it turning into a massive counter-productive cost sink. Especially when the characters all have wildly distinct gimmicks. They did actually make a UA-style Justice League game. By all accounts it was forgettable at best.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:08
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Gaz-L posted:The issue is that with an open world, you make one space. With those big linear levels, you have to make several bespoke ones for each mission. That's usually what videogames are, yes. Superman can fight in literally any environment on the planet or in the universe and sticking him in a city the whole game seems like a colossal waste. Especially since it's a place he's meant to keep clean and pristine.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:03
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Lobok posted:That's usually what videogames are, yes. Superman can fight in literally any environment on the planet or in the universe and sticking him in a city the whole game seems like a colossal waste. Especially since it's a place he's meant to keep clean and pristine. You're missing their point. One of the hallmarks of a Sonic game's design, even back in the Genesis days, is that their stages have to be enormous by comparison to other games in the same genre, because Sonic covers so much ground so quickly. A single Sonic level might mostly be hallways, platforms, and rails, but it still covers more square footage than you might find in a whole other game. As such, in a theoretical Superman game where he's both super-fast and can fly, any level you put him in is going to have to be enormous simply to represent the pace he's moving at. An open world would have to be massive, while a planned level would have to be the size of another game's open world. It's a lot of work, even if most of that virtual space is mostly liminal and empty.
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Feb 6, 2022 22:44
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Ok, let's try a different tack. If I'm missing any point it's because I don't see a lot of use in comparing to Sonic platforming games where the entire point is traversal. The point and and fun of a Superman game is not going at supersonic speeds to get from point A to point B. Superman has very basic traversal and so trying to build a game with that as its starting point seems... misguided. Saying that a Superman game can't exist because it has to be open world Metropolis and that city has to be unfathomably big to appease players who want to go Mach 5 from one end of the other does a disservice to the rest of him. You can't give players everything they want and so I'm saying put flying around aimlessly through empty air at the bottom of the list. With every superhero game there are sacrifices and I think you could still have a successful game if you gave players more of what they want in other areas. If it's not open world and/or Metropolis you can you can have fights take place in all kinds of exotic, extreme environments. Fights in those environments can have more destruction. They can be more destructible. Enemies and enemy encounters can be created with way more opportunities for his utility powers. Enemies can be huge. Graphics should be way better and more detailed. I'm not going to go on because this is already an effortpost but I trust that other people can imagine how a game structured like all the others out there that aren't GTA or Spider-Man could still be awesome.
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Feb 7, 2022 02:05
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Maybe if you trapped Superman somewhere... And there was this fog so it was hard to see how big the city is. And then you forced him to do things, like fly through giant rings...
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Feb 7, 2022 02:58
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Lobok posted:Ok, let's try a different tack. If I'm missing any point it's because I don't see a lot of use in comparing to Sonic platforming games where the entire point is traversal. The point and and fun of a Superman game is not going at supersonic speeds to get from point A to point B. Superman has very basic traversal and so trying to build a game with that as its starting point seems... misguided. Saying that a Superman game can't exist because it has to be open world Metropolis and that city has to be unfathomably big to appease players who want to go Mach 5 from one end of the other does a disservice to the rest of him. Ultimately you're arguing for a Superman game where Superman can't fly. Which is the kind of thing that will literally make the game a punchline
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Feb 7, 2022 04:51
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Oh my god, I am not arguing for a game where Superman does not fly. Just that Superman can be more than just the one idea people latch onto for an open world Metropolis. He can have aerial combat, he can have places he can fly to, he can have things to catch or people to save or vehicles to chase all with flying. He can fight bosses as big as a mountain and you fight them without ever touching the ground.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:24
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I don't think people would be horribly upset if Superman flew at the speed of an Ace Combat plane through a map the size of the PS4 Spider-Man map. Maybe give players a series of missions above the clouds to really let them go hog wild with speed and distance
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Feb 7, 2022 06:08
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One of the appeal of Superman stories is the idea of Clark Kent doing his thing, suddenly hearing someone crying for help and seeing him do the "run towards the camera and rip open the shirt to reveal the 'S stands for Hope'" thing. But as fantastic as it is to see that whole bit down really well, doing it in gameplay would probably feel really tedious after the 10th time.
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Feb 7, 2022 10:22
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Simply make it a Dead by Daylight clone where you're like Prankster or Toy Man trying to rob a full scale Metropolis, and Superman is the "monster" who's gonna stop you as soon as he notices you.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:14
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JordanKai posted:I don't think people would be horribly upset if Superman flew at the speed of an Ace Combat plane through a map the size of the PS4 Spider-Man map. Maybe give players a series of missions above the clouds to really let them go hog wild with speed and distance I think more than the actual size it would be the invisible barriers and the view that would annoy players the most. In Superman Returns the area surrounding Metropolis was so empty and barren they may as well have set the game in the bottle city of Kandor for how isolated it was. Or Las Vegas! In PS4 Spider-Man it's better because there are at least very simple textures that stretch to the horizon so you can see that New Jersey or Long Island do in fact exist even if you can't get to them.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:34
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I feel like broadly Lobok is simply saying it's possible to have a good Superman game without necessarily giving him a sandbox as big as the universe and letting you free roam at the speed of light. I don't think they should be on trial for not having a fully fleshed out AAA Superman pitch at the ready. I'm not saying nobody is making good points, but their base argument is "A good Superman game is possible". Which it is.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:47
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SonicRulez posted:I feel like broadly Lobok is simply saying it's possible to have a good Superman game without necessarily giving him a sandbox as big as the universe and letting you free roam at the speed of light. I don't think they should be on trial for not having a fully fleshed out AAA Superman pitch at the ready. I'm not saying nobody is making good points, but their base argument is "A good Superman game is possible". Which it is. Agreed that it's difficult, mainly due to how overpowered he is, but also doable like you said. You could have a plot device where Brainiac domes off a city or maybe do some kind of procedural generation like No Mans Sky - except that's more of an exploration game. Also, nerfing Superman's powers via kryptonite and poo poo feels like a cop out. I don't know how you do it though and really constrain him. Arkham Asylum kind of artificially hemmed in Batman pretty well to where unleashing him in City felt really expansive but Batman can't fly off to the moon so it's not really an issue. You could maybe set it on different planets where there's only one or two things really worth checking out and the rest is just landscapes and poo poo. Maybe separate the levels into set pieces that borrow from the movies (find Luthor's base, rescue x, y, z people, fly to the fortress of solitude/solve puzzzles, race around to landmarks and poo poo to save trains/planes, a big Zod battle in the city, a few Clark Kent missions, etc.) Or just stick him in the bottled city of Kandor and make him figure out how to get out = walls established. I think that last one is the best bet but Supes is kind of like Green Lantern where translating his powers to a videogame format is quite hard. GL can make anything he wants with his ring and also fly but we have 8-10 buttons here. I think a Dr. Strange game that uses some Inception style level manipulation that borrows from Soul Reaver could be cool but how do you account for all his spells? Hulk: Ultimate Destruction handled the idea of an overpowered hero very well but Hulk can't fly.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:48
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They all call me mad but I still say the best idea for a supes game has him depowered and regaining his abilities piece by piece, and not open world, have him be escaping from Brainiac's prison or Warworld or something (also the powers usage is a KOTOR style wheel in my mind shut up it would work)
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Feb 7, 2022 17:03
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I think that could be a good game (I guess anything could be, conceptually) but it would have to overcome the intense deriding it would get from the moment it got unveiled.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:41
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Opopanax posted:They all call me mad but I still say the best idea for a supes game has him depowered and regaining his abilities piece by piece, and not open world, have him be escaping from Brainiac's prison or Warworld or something Metroidopolis
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Feb 7, 2022 17:47
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instead of complaining about how his flight speed isn't comic accurate at least complain about something interesting like he can't shoot mini supermen out of his fingers
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Feb 7, 2022 17:53
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site posted:instead of complaining about how his flight speed isn't comic accurate at least complain about something interesting like he can't shoot mini supermen out of his fingers No Super Ventriloquism is a deal breaker for me.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:56
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thebardyspoon posted:I think that could be a good game (I guess anything could be, conceptually) but it would have to overcome the intense deriding it would get from the moment it got unveiled. Pretty much, it's like how Shattered Dimensions was a terrific Spider-Man game that everyone hated because it didn't have open world web slinging
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Feb 7, 2022 18:11
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BiggerBoat posted:No Super Ventriloquism is a deal breaker for me. if you can't get Jimmy Olsen to marry a gorilla what's even the point
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Feb 7, 2022 18:17
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BiggerBoat posted:Agreed that it's difficult, mainly due to how overpowered he is, but also doable like you said. I think honestly the bottle city idea is pretty solid. There's been a bunch of times Braniac's done that to Metropolis. Heck, you could even go with the fairly common modern idea that Smallville is fairly close to Metropolis and have the dome include some of the surrounding area, which would let you have a couple of 'home' areas, like the Kent farm and maybe the Planet building. Maybe even have it be an excuse for hemming the power level down slightly (only artificial sunlight, so Superman has to be careful with how hard he goes or he'll run out of juice). I still think the basic idea of Superman Returns is clever, but it runs up against the fact that most players wanna smash stuff more than they want to protect it. Maybe have the mechanics be similar to Hulk Ultimate Destruction or Prototype, but with moves and incentives to NOT smash up the city. Like, you throw a tank or robot but you can then fly up super-fast and punch it before it hits the building. So you get to save the city AND do a sweet move.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:22
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SonicRulez posted:I feel like broadly Lobok is simply saying it's possible to have a good Superman game without necessarily giving him a sandbox as big as the universe and letting you free roam at the speed of light. I don't think they should be on trial for not having a fully fleshed out AAA Superman pitch at the ready. I'm not saying nobody is making good points, but their base argument is "A good Superman game is possible". Which it is. Yes. And it's not like I'm actually against the idea of the sandbox city game for Superman on principle. But assuming limited resources, and tech that doesn't far surpass what we have now, I imagine that type of game for him specifically would end up with the worst aspects of open world games but lack the best aspects. And not be a showcase for what Superman can truly do. The difficulty in arguing about this is the lack of similar examples he could follow. God of War (either the original ones or the new one) does a number of things I'd like to see but the structure of those games often rely on ignoring that Kratos could punch through or jump over the obstacles in his way and I don't think that kind of hand-waving would be acceptable for Superman so there'd need to be more creative ways of halting his progress if that was the broad type of game chosen. The original games are linear, instead of the Zelda-style hub world thing they did with the new GoW, and would be an easier fit I think. But also, Superman being able to jet off to wherever isn't just a How problem --meaning creating a vast world-- but a Why one. If Superman, and the players, are given something to focus on for story and gameplay reasons in a relatively limited area, it's easier to accept that he can't/won't blast off into the sky. Fans love Superman helping/saving people, and while you don't need to make the whole game one long escort mission there are ways to incorporate that kind of imminent danger into missions and combat so that it seems natural to keep Superman within some kind of boundaries because he's not just going to leave. He's going to handle the problems in front of him, and using that you can lead him from area to area.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:22
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site posted:if you can't get Jimmy Olsen to marry a gorilla what's even the point Well, I'd play it if you could tie Louis Lane to the front of a truck and drive it off a cliff.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:06
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site posted:if you can't force Jimmy Olsen to marry a gorilla what's even the point I mean, c'mon. Jimmy never entered into those unions willingly
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Feb 7, 2022 21:44
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SonicRulez posted:I feel like broadly Lobok is simply saying it's possible to have a good Superman game without necessarily giving him a sandbox as big as the universe and letting you free roam at the speed of light. I don't think they should be on trial for not having a fully fleshed out AAA Superman pitch at the ready. I'm not saying nobody is making good points, but their base argument is "A good Superman game is possible". Which it is. Superman musou on Apokilips. You're welcome.
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Feb 8, 2022 01:50
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Superman musou on Apokilips. I would also take apokolips dbz boss rush with some exploration/puzzle/crime-solving in between
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Feb 8, 2022 02:51
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site posted:if you can't get Jimmy Olsen to marry a gorilla what's even the point You can, you just have to find a very well hidden sidequest trigger. El Gallinero Gros posted:Superman musou on Apokilips. You have no idea what I would do for an Avengers/X-Men/Justice League Musuo.  
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Feb 8, 2022 06:19
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JordanKai posted:You can, you just have to find a very well hidden sidequest trigger. I've floated that very idea in this thread, a Secret Invasion musou would be faboo
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Feb 8, 2022 08:28
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As I grow older, I come to believe every franchise should have a musou series. Yes even whatever you thought of to counter me.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:55
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SonicRulez posted:As I grow older, I come to believe every franchise should have a musou series. Yes even whatever you thought of to counter me. I mean, the Murder, She Wrote musou was a pretty big disappointment after the Titus Groan musou, I can understand them stepping back a bit on their original plans.
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Feb 8, 2022 19:35
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SonicRulez posted:As I grow older, I come to believe every franchise should have a musou series. Yes even whatever you thought of to counter me. Paper Girls, where you drive over hundreds of time-traveling weird future humans on a Huffy bike. Smoke cigarettes for a buff.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:52
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what the gently caress is a muso and why do i already hate it?
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Feb 9, 2022 07:08
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Soonmot posted:what the gently caress is a muso and why do i already hate it? Have you ever played Dynasty Warriors?
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Feb 9, 2022 07:20
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No, but it does sound cool, so I guess I don't hate that word, if that is what it is.
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Feb 9, 2022 18:59
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Soonmot posted:what the gently caress is a muso and why do i already hate it? It's basically a third person, over the shoulder melee hack-n-slash up game with your hero character taking on hundreds of low level enemies at a time. Fight your way from point A to Point B where you need to typically attack or defend some objective, at which point a higher level enemy will show up and you will have to defeat them and scatter their troops. Repeat. There's often time based bonuses for finishing a certain objective quickly or finding a secret path leads you to a different story branch. A lot of it can be BS if you are trying for one specific goal. Dynasty Warriors is the OG with a cast inspired by The Romance of The Three Kingdoms novels. Hyrule Warriors is probably the biggest new one in a few years, done in Legend Of Zelda style with a pretty deep roster. I think there was a Gundam series in the PS2/PS3 era that played the same way.
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Feb 9, 2022 19:16
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Persona 5 Strikers/Scramble is probably the one that demonstrates that the framework is flexible though. (I really dislike the basic musou gameplay loop, but P5S feels more like a Persona game that has some musou elements than the typical musou with IP loosely stapled on like Gundam or Zelda)
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Feb 9, 2022 19:44
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One Piece’s Pirate Warriors is a lot of fun. All the characters and their strange powers give a lot of variety to a normally repetitive gameplay loop.
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Feb 9, 2022 20:53
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Venom would be a really fun musou character. Basically play like Prototype but mowing down armies of skrulls
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Feb 10, 2022 13:55
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The Hulk also.Open Marriage Night posted:One Piece’s Pirate Warriors is a lot of fun. All the characters and their strange powers give a lot of variety to a normally repetitive gameplay loop. Pirate Warriors is what led me to my initial conclusion that every franchise should have one.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:52
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