|
yeah I'd feel differently if these truckers were hiring someone to drive their trucks
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 01:38 |
|
|
You're both dumb, these aren't even mostly truckers, and they're hated by most of those that are.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2022 21:04
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:yeah I'd feel differently if these truckers were hiring someone to drive their trucks well they are literally at the protests driving their trucks so its a non factor
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
owner-operators own their means of production but must still labor to make money from it. that's the textbook definition of the petit bourgeoisie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:well they are literally at the protests driving their trucks so its a non factor They're rentals.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2022 21:31
|
|
|
ugh that's why enterprise has been out of big rigs recently
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
Who cares, even truckers (usually a bulwark of leftist thought) can be fascists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
croup coughfield posted:owner-operators own their means of production but must still labor to make money from it. that's the textbook definition of the petit bourgeoisie. See the local corner shop owner or green grocer or whatever yeah they have a stake in the system, but its a paltry unenviable one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 00:36
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:proletarians being generally more politically reliable than petite bourgeois isn't a super hot take. Calling owner-operators petite bourgeois is sort of a hot take, but the sort of debt obligations they are under seems to fit the general method of exploitation the PB faces in imperialist countries. I'd argue its an awful take. Owning (or more likely, trying to pay off) the depreciating asset as a condition of even participating in the job would mean uber drivers and door dash are petit-boug. EVERY strata of society who is not rich is exploited through debt, its not an identifiable trait of the middle class per se.. quote:The real hot take would be to argue that owner-operators are lumpen. My lazzaroni does 185 quote:proletarians can still be dumbasses, I know I am, but there's a reason Marxists identify them as the class that will be the foundation of any socialist revolution. The Bolsheviks were able to concretely bring in peasants and oppressed nationalities, but I'm not sure how the peasantry aspect applies in the US. I don't think it does, honestly. I think just like Mao made the urban proletariat secondary to the peasantry, a U.S. revolution would probably be lumpen first, as proletariat in the classic hammer swinging factory worker/miner are in a tiny minority. A 21st century left movement is going to look and operate extremely differently in many ways from 20th century ones, and I think many of the old signifiers aren't going to be there. The material conditions on the ground in the u.s. are a bunch of retail and service workers trying to hold it together while surviving in a predatory ecosystem of eternal grift with the boug having entirely run out of ideas and just stealing the copper out of the wall. This shares overall themes with, but is also very different from, the Russian peasantry and proletariat being terrorized by the tzar and Chinese peasantry trying to survive both Imperial Japanese invaders and their homegrown fash and the collapse of the United Front. Additionally, I assert the entire concept of 'lumpen' should be trashed. With the exception of being a state/corporate enforcer, or being a criminal that preys on other poor people, saying some kinds of labor and survival are inherently inferior is wrong. In addition, saying a non-working, non-elderly adult who is out of the workforce for good is *lesser* than a worker is also a terrible concept. Ronwayne has issued a correction as of 01:13 on Feb 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 01:03
|
|
|
This trucker nonsense must be understood as a new and somewhat alarming development in the reactionary right. The people on the ground are chumps, but someone behind it? Aren't. This poo poo is basically recon by fire in the western states, probing for weaknesses, experimenting with strategy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 01:23
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:the owner operator is the middle peasant constantly oscillating between destitution, debt bondage and some minor accumulation of wealth hm yes we should support the fascists because they own their personal means of production 
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 01:48
|
|
|
StratGoatCom posted:This trucker nonsense must be understood as a new and somewhat alarming development in the reactionary right. The people on the ground are chumps, but someone behind it? Three things that north america is absolutely chock full of is guns, fuel, and motor vehicles, in retrospect, them branching out with the latter one isn't too surprising, and having a tactical asset that can move itself is pretty handy. This also made me picture a company-sized force of street fash dorks pouring out of a semi-truck trailer instead of the usual clown car uhaul thing they do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 02:13
|
|
|
Ronwayne posted:Three things that north america is absolutely chock full of is guns, fuel, and motor vehicles, in retrospect, them branching out with the latter one isn't too surprising, and having a tactical asset that can move itself is pretty handy. that's a lot of nazi farts you have to breath to get to the cool zone
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 02:16
|
|
|
Crazypoops posted:that's a lot of nazi farts you have to breath to get to the cool zone If we get lucky, they'll start killing each other.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 02:45
|
|
|
I am farticus
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
Ronwayne posted:Three things that north america is absolutely chock full of is guns, fuel, and motor vehicles, in retrospect, them branching out with the latter one isn't too surprising, and having a tactical asset that can move itself is pretty handy. Yeah, and figuring out how use both those resources and troops effectively is what's being trialed here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 03:38
|
|
|
It's a pretty obvious evolution of the Trump parades and alt-right convoys into Portland and other cities.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 03:39
|
|
|
StratGoatCom posted:They're rentals. They are renting trucks from owners? That means they are poor and can’t afford to be there. They are owner operators or are you claiming that these are random weirdos renting trucks to larp as truckers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:04
|
|
|
My dad's a trucker and let me tell you that the owner-operator thing is a massive scam. The comparison to Uber is not far off, you're still working for a massive conglomerate that treats you like poo poo and you're not technically an employee because you "own" the truck. If you're long haul you basically only get to come home like 4 days out of a month.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:21
|
|
|
Let's not forget these are nominally over the right of truckers to spread pestilence wherever they go because it's a free country goddammit
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:23
|
|
|
Vernii posted:hm yes we should support the fascists because they own their personal means of production You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state The cops are against them the media is against them basically the entire intelligence apparatus is against them and that makes them fascists Here’s a thought: Trudeau is at best a slimy corporate fascist and most likely a puppet of Nazi deputy prime minister Chrystia lebenstraum
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:25
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state lmao. They're just disappointed that Canada hasn't killed as many Unnütze-Essers as America over the past two years, and not being allowed to kill themselves and others doesn't make it a police state.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Let's not forget these are nominally over the right of truckers to spread pestilence wherever they go because it's a free country goddammit We are already living on a crumbling disease ridden fascist state of decay ruled over by these people  Servant class vs ruling class down vs top But you are trying to frame it as a horizontal thing
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:We are already living on a crumbling disease ridden fascist state of decay ruled over by these people It's possible for a thing to be very bad, even when there's something else that's much worse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:40
|
|
|
Chamale posted:lmao. They're just disappointed that Canada hasn't killed as many Unnütze-Essers as America over the past two years, and not being allowed to kill themselves and others doesn't make it a police state. I am going to find out what these truckers want because I’m tired of just writing off people and automatically believing what some Ned price looking bureaucrat on the tv says about them
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
Yea western governments surrendered to Covid a long time ago, the culture war over vaccinations is just to push the blame onto the individual. Just like whenever the bourgeois state fails.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state kindly do not poo poo the thread up with gimmick posts about the loving assholes who have occupied, shat up, woken up and tried to murder an entire appartment build's inhabitants in my country's capital, please and thank you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 11:32
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:I am going to find out what these truckers want because I’m tired of just writing off people and automatically believing what some Ned price looking bureaucrat on the tv says about them Fascist apologetics? In MY C-SPAM?!
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 12:39
|
|
|
Yes, let's hear out what the Canadians waving Trump and Confederate flags have to say about public health. Clearly they have some sort of anxiety about non-white people being alive and near them
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 12:41
|
|
|
gosh why don't the cops simply gas and beat them
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 12:45
|
|
|
Some of those who work forces Are the same that block concourses
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 13:13
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state none of this is true except the bit about how Trudeau sucks the cops are with the protesters and have been facilitating their actions, overseeing their resupply operations, preventing counter-protesters from getting near them, and refusing to do anything to stop them even when they threaten others or violate court orders to stop honking their horns, for example. the police claim there are jurisdictional barriers preventing them from doing anything (not true) or make absurd claims like "oh those jerrycans could be full of water" as the protesters walk past them and then use the jerrycans to refill trucks within sight of the police. when left-wing or indigenous protesters have tried much tamer protests or occupations in the past, these same police have beaten the poo poo out of them, cleared their encampments, and thrown them in jail the media and politicians are also not against them, they have been fully embraced by the right wing of Canadian politics (the Conservatives and everyone farther right than them) and by the right wing of the Canadian media which is doing its best to make them seem like reasonable protesters and not Nazis, and by the right wing in the US which is holding massive fundraisers for them, giving them nonstop coverage on Fox News, talking them up at Trump rallies, and threatening lawsuits against any websites that pull their fundraising pages for being Nazis or even just for being set up by scammers the organizers of the protest are not truck drivers, they are QAnon conspiracy theorists who think Covid is a hoax invented by Bill Gates to inject 5G microchips into our blood. That is not a joke or hyperbole, that is what they have written in legal documents. These far-right conspiracy theorists have seized on the truck driver vaccine mandate as something they think will be a populist pretext to bring people to their side, not because they are actually truck drivers mad about the mandate. Other organizers have been caught on live voice chat talking about how they think Hitler had good ideas and they don't want you to know about his good ideas for some mysterious reason protesters have been proudly displaying swastikas, confederate flags, and antisemitic banners, and when the media comes by to film or photograph those people the others around them make no efforts to show disapproval or remove them, they just welcome them as fellow travelers and listen to what they have to say as they thoughtfully explain that every Covid vaccine was created by a Jew to kill the rest of us other protesters were confronted by people living in an apartment building downtown who were being kept awake by honking throughout the night, so the protesters responded by waiting until the middle of the night, locking the doors to the building shut, and trying to light it on fire, but were thankfully incompetent enough that the fire was put out before anyone was hurt their actual demands are for Canada to rescind all public health measures and for Justin Trudeau to resign and maybe face trial for treason, because the organizers think he is a communist who is using Covid as cover to do the Muslim Great Replacement. Again, not hyperbole. healthcare workers are commuting to work in disguise because protesters have threatened to commit violence against them if they're recognized as healthcare workers in public, and people of colour are being harassed in the streets for the crime of living in downtown Ottawa, while the politicians who live in wealthy suburbs are doing just fine meanwhile 90% of actual truck drivers in Canada are vaccinated, in line with the rest of the Canadian population, and those 90% are pretty angry that this reactionary movement is coopting their legitimate struggle as essential workers during the pandemic to agitate for Nazi poo poo. The Nazis are getting tens of millions of dollars in fundraising while actual truckdrivers struggle to get $20,000 to sue their bosses for wage theft or unsafe working conditions also meanwhile, other Canadians are suffering from months or years of healthcare rationing because our hospital beds are all filled with conspiracy theorists on ventilators. someone I know has spent nine months waiting for an operation to see whether or not they have cancer, because our healthcare capacity has been stretched to breaking point by these "fed up Canadians who don't want a police state" but instead want a white ethnostate where we all get sick and die of a preventable disease. the protesters go on and on about how public health measures are violating their freedom, obviously completely ignoring my friend's freedom to not get sick and die of treatable cancer they are Nazis, OP, and you claiming that they're the persecuted working class is you falling for Nazi propaganda about how the only true representatives of the downtrodden Canadian people are blood and soil fascists. the fact that Justin Trudeau sucks doesn't mean that everyone who hates him is automatically a comrade, the same way Joe Biden sucks but that doesn't mean some nutjob is correct if they say he sucks because he's a communist who wants to seize the means of production and redistribute them to ISIS
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state Lol at this level of delusion that you think these people are downtrodden workers mad about material conditions when they're actually mad about brown people and qanon poo poo. A large contingent of them are literally followers of some woman who declared herself Queen of Canada and encourages harassment and murder threats towards healthcare workers and teachers. The fact that you're trying to describe the current Canadian government as "fascist" is proof that you have no idea what that word even means and are using it like a child. Also lol the cops aren't against them. The cops have been openly recorded being friendly and supportive and turning a blind eye towards all the assaults these chuds are committing. The fact that the police state is on their side and only now dragging its heels towards half-assed enforcement because it's making them look weak is proof these people aren't comrades.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 14:49
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:We are already living on a crumbling disease ridden fascist state of decay ruled over by these people Please explain what you even mean, friend. The upper class and leadership of the country is to blame for the current mess of covid, and the culture war stuff about vaccines. However, I've had three family friends die from covid and others in my circle have long covid symptoms so I can also be mad at idiots denying a vaccine so they can spread death and disease while they drive around. Ty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 15:29
|
|
|
Vernii posted:
Yeah, right (neo)libs are bad and unacceptable, and them using fash as a bludgeon to keep minorities and the left powerless is literally the foundational struggle we're up against, but handing over any power or sympathy in any form to actual, poutine brownshirt street fash is even worse. Historically, fash trying to call the shots to capital was what made capital even willing to tolerate working with communists for a short while to put fascism back on its leash. Neolibs trying to maintain control while us on the left revile these nazis may make it seem we're both on the same side but we're not, we just have something we both hate more at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 15:34
|
|
|
Also the Canadian government literally doesn't meet the definition of the word. Words lose their meaning when they get thrown around loosely as a generic bad thing. And again lmao at the idea that the chuds beating up homeless people and robbing soup kitchens are actually the oppressed victims.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 15:51
|
|
|
Tricky D posted:What this trucker's protest illustrates to me is that owner-operators are petit bourge scum. I can't imagine company drivers being allowed to take company rigs on an anti-vax protest. Something like 90% of canadian truckers are vaccinated, and a lot are pissed that those protests are now speaking for them. This was never about truckers. Its solely about the american fash landing a propaganda coup to get some semblance of legitimacy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:You have no proof that they are anything other than fed up Canadians who don’t want a police state When you unironically believe that "Don't be a sucker" is hypocritical fascist police state propaganda and not a dire warning against literally this exact poo poo you're spewing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 22:11
|
|
|
I'm an intelligent socialist and I took a long and hard look a the state of the North American Anglophone countries, and after a careful and measured analysis it's clear to me the solution to the impoverishing of the working class is a centralization of the means of production in the hands of the capitalists. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 22:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 01:38 |
|
|
Probably best you keep to recommending people Apple products.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 22:40
|
|