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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

OldMemes posted:

I think. The real confusion is if the decayed Master is a destroyed version of the UNIT enemy Master body, a failed attempt to regenerate into a 14th incarnation, or a damaged version of Beevers as the 13th Master. All of which have been suggested by different writers, iirc.

BF lore -- which is what a lot of your explanation is running off of -- argues that the Beevers Master is a separate incarnation to Delgado. Eventually Beevers is scarred on Terserus.

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Strong Convections
May 8, 2008

OldMemes posted:

It's rather odd that on the Wiki, every Time Lord character has a separate page for each incarnation, but the Master has just one for every version.
Oh, it's only the Master then, just my luck that that's the one I tried to trawl through.
I was only trying to work out if I could put a face to the baldy name from the audios (like the crispy one is easy to picture), but regardless of where he fits in, if he's never appeared he's not someone I might be able to remember.

I think I'm going to have to listen to anything with Missy in the car instead of as a sleep aid. Last night as I was on the verge of sleep I heard "Oh no, I filled the world with killer plastic daffodils, come back to my quarry and see the size of my doomsday weapon" which left me wide awake and laughing.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



OldMemes posted:

It's rather odd that on the Wiki, every Time Lord character has a separate page for each incarnation, but the Master has just one for every version.

Anthony Ainley apparently declined to reprise the role for Dust Breeding, and it was rewritten to have Beevers play the Master instead, saying that the plot device of the story had rotted away the Tremas body to his decayed version. He then spends the next while body hopping, only for each new body to inevitably return to the decayed form. As a parasite, he steals the body of Bruce (the Eric Roberts character) and after escaping the time vortex, carries on using it for a while, only for it to once again rot away to to the decayed version. He's finally about to be killed for good, only for the Time Lords to give him a new regeneration cycle, with the MacQueen Master as the start of a new Time Lord body.

I think. The real confusion is if the decayed Master is a destroyed version of the UNIT enemy Master body, a failed attempt to regenerate into a 14th incarnation, or a damaged version of Beevers as the 13th Master. All of which have been suggested by different writers, iirc.

Ainley didn't decline as much as his demands were too much for BF, and they decided to go with Beevers (Ainley wanted script approval, casting approval, and wanted more money than even the actors playing the Doctor where getting.)

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Davros1 posted:

Ainley didn't decline as much as his demands were too much for BF, and they decided to go with Beevers (Ainley wanted script approval, casting approval, and wanted more money than even the actors playing the Doctor where getting.)

Which is so weird, because by all accounts he was fairly well off due to an inheritance his father had left him, which is why he pretty much just indulged his passion for cricket and playing the Master on TV without taking on many other roles during the 1980s. Perhaps it was one of those "I don't really want to do this type of work, but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings either, so I'll just make some wild demands instead of outright turning it down" kinda things.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

TinTower posted:

I mean, Chibnall's first ever episode for the entire Doctor Who franchise was the sentient sex gas episode.

The second one was the one with Ol' Shiny Tits.

To be completely fair, his third attempt, "Countrycide", did give us Captain Jack in a ruddy great tractor.

Still, one good episode out of four in both series ("Adrift" is fantastic and I will not hear slander against it :colbert:) isn't really a good enough record.

Oh, yeah, it's not an unfair thread meme or an unfair reason to be wary. The first two seasons of Torchwood sucked real bad, and even the better episodes are tainted by how much the beginning of the show makes you hate most of the characters. I don't think there's a single point in the series where Owen is likeable. It's been awhile, but I also feel like they made several half-hearted attempts to redeem him before immediately making him unnecessarily hateful again.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Bicyclops posted:

The bad one is called Exile. It's a shame that it's bad because it's an early attempt at having a woman play the Doctor, but they just play every note wrong.

I thought I'd listen to that one first to get it over with. First impressions are poor. It's bad comedy and even David Tennant can't save that. The concept isn't bad; a Doctor who gave up and retreated to a pre-An Unearthly Child state of just keeping her head down and not doing anything is a good starting point for a story. And then holy gently caress, Time Lords who regenerate by committing suicide become women to punish the consciousness of the regeneration that did that. And this is apparently doing this is some great affront to the Time Lords. Yeah, that's a real low point for Big Finish.

I had that in spoilers initially, but it's incidental to the plot and something that lovely shouldn't be buried.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Random Stranger posted:

I thought I'd listen to that one first to get it over with. First impressions are poor. It's bad comedy and even David Tennant can't save that. The concept isn't bad; a Doctor who gave up and retreated to a pre-An Unearthly Child state of just keeping her head down and not doing anything is a good starting point for a story. And then holy gently caress, Time Lords who regenerate by committing suicide become women to punish the consciousness of the regeneration that did that. And this is apparently doing this is some great affront to the Time Lords. Yeah, that's a real low point for Big Finish.

I had that in spoilers initially, but it's incidental to the plot and something that lovely shouldn't be buried.

I'd forgotten a lot of that, lol, it's so bad. I think it's also the one where the Doctor is drunk the whole time, but for some reason it feels like it was acted, written by and directed by a group of people who have never encountered alcohol in their entire lives. It probably has more weird burping in it than the first season of Rick and Morty.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

https://twitter.com/connolly_reece/status/1490280923140612096?s=20&t=5WknTZacquK6W2VkfnQTSA

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Bicyclops posted:

I'd forgotten a lot of that, lol, it's so bad. I think it's also the one where the Doctor is drunk the whole time, but for some reason it feels like it was acted, written by and directed by a group of people who have never encountered alcohol in their entire lives. It probably has more weird burping in it than the first season of Rick and Morty.

Yeah, I don't drink and even I noticed how bad the drunk acting was.

Updog Scully
Apr 20, 2021

This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.

:blastback::woomy::blaster:

:classiclol:

Also, has anyone read any of the Black Archive books? They are properly daunting, I'd love to dig into one but there's so many and they are so long. I can't imagine another TV show getting a thesis on each episode.

Also, those covers are so sexy. Who is the graphic designer?

Updog Scully fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 7, 2022

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Updog Scully posted:

Also, those covers are so sexy. Who is the graphic designer?

Oh god, they really are.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Updog Scully posted:


Also, has anyone read any of the Black Archive books? They are properly daunting, I'd love to dig into one but there's so many and they are so long. I can't imagine another TV show getting a thesis on each episode.

Also, those covers are so sexy. Who is the graphic designer?

I’ve got friends who have written some, but I’ve yet to actually read any. :sweatdrop:

The covers are the iconography of Blair Bidmead, all chopped and changed around.

Strong Convections
May 8, 2008

The_Doctor posted:

I’ve got friends who have written some, but I’ve yet to actually read any. :sweatdrop:

McGann
May 19, 2003

Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!

Random Stranger posted:

Yeah, I don't drink and even I noticed how bad the drunk acting was.

Christ, it embarassed me and I was listening to it on headphones, home alone.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Doctor Whordle!

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Doctor Whordle 3 4/6

⬜️⬜️⬜️🟧⬜️clara
⬜️🟧🟧⬜️🟧prose
⬜️⬜️🟦🟦⬜️angel
🟦🟦🟦🟦🟦roger (purely a guess fro mavailable letters, had no idea what whoroger was before they told me)

The hardest part is just thinking of Who specific 5 letter things.

Updog Scully
Apr 20, 2021

This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.

:blastback::woomy::blaster:

Doctor Whordle 4 5/6


🟧⬜️🟧⬜️⬜️ ROGER
🟦🟦🟦⬜️⬜️ GRADE
🟦🟦🟦⬜️⬜️ GRAMP
🟧⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️ FULLY
🟦🟦🟦🟦🟦 GRAFF

No idea what a Graff is. I'm a fake fan that way.

Updog Scully
Apr 20, 2021

This post is accompanied by all the requisite visual and audio effects.

:blastback::woomy::blaster:
Also, as much as I love Murray Gold, I'm hoping they bring Anna Meredith in to compose. She would be a perfect fit for the show.

Updog Scully fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 10, 2022

Unkempt
May 24, 2003

...perfect spiral, scientists are still figuring it out...

Updog Scully posted:

Doctor Whordle 4 5/6

No idea what a Graff is. I'm a fake fan that way.

The Ribos Operation, one of my favourites.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

I feel like Murray Gold probably won’t come back, but this feels so much like 2005 again (even Phil Collinson is coming back as exec producer).

Strong Convections
May 8, 2008
Never tried this type of word game before, but I can tell you it's broken.

Doesn't recognise "farts" as a word.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

I like the current composer. He manages to sneak a little of the Murray Gold bombast in without overwhelming things. I liked Murray too, but the change was fun.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


Rhyno posted:

I mean, all TW is pretty much tainted by Barrowman now, not that it was ever worth revisiting.

goddamnit what did I miss about Barrowman.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
slings his dick on people on set

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Khanstant posted:

slings his dick on people on set

Also did a "it was meant in good fun, I was a different person all those years ago, sorry if anyone got offended" non-apology

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

It's a little like Jeffrey Tambor and Arrested Development in that the way he was bad feels a little too close to his character in a way that makes a lot of it hard to watch.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Bicyclops posted:

I like the current composer. He manages to sneak a little of the Murray Gold bombast in without overwhelming things. I liked Murray too, but the change was fun.

I miss Gold’s leitmotifs though.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



BF has cast Stephen Noonan as the First Doctor in their range of First Doctor Adventures

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1492151445004505092?s=20&t=plxONX3FNB6dlfgqTpip7Q

Voice is way too high, I think.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

When did BF change their stance on hiring soundalikes or whatever to play the Doctors that had passed on? I remember many years ago they used to have a FAQ with a line that said something like "you could hire David Troughton to play his dad, Sean Pertwee to play his dad, etc" and their response was "we wouldn't want to do that because we wouldn't want to risk potentially disrespecting the memories of Hartnell, Troughton, or Pertwee". Obviously their stance on that has changed, but I was curious as to when that happened; like was it after Frazer Hines started doing his very credible Troughton impersonation during the Companion Chronicles, or was it when the Beeb hired David Warner to play Hartnell in the TV movie about the show's origins (and also to play the First Doctor in Capaldi's last couple of episodes)?

E: David Bradley, not David Warner (though Warner did of course do some DW stuff for BF)

Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 11, 2022

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Davros1 posted:

BF has cast Stephen Noonan as the First Doctor in their range of First Doctor Adventures

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1492151445004505092?s=20&t=plxONX3FNB6dlfgqTpip7Q

Voice is way too high, I think.

Yeah, it’s close, but very high.

I guess David Bradley doesn’t want to do it any more?

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



The_Doctor posted:

Yeah, it’s close, but very high.

I guess David Bradley doesn’t want to do it any more?

They said they're keen to do more with Bradley. Maybe it's an availability issue? Or maybe they want to only use him with Ian, Barbara, and Susan (since this is just First and Dodo)?

This is also part of their new "Monthly Range" schedule. They may do a Bradley set as a separate release like they did with last month's Eighth Doctor and Charley boxset (which wasn't part of the new "Monthly" boxset range).


Sydney Bottocks posted:

When did BF change their stance on hiring soundalikes or whatever to play the Doctors that had passed on? I remember many years ago they used to have a FAQ with a line that said something like "you could hire David Troughton to play his dad, Sean Pertwee to play his dad, etc" and their response was "we wouldn't want to do that because we wouldn't want to risk potentially disrespecting the memories of Hartnell, Troughton, or Pertwee". Obviously their stance on that has changed, but I was curious as to when that happened; like was it after Frazer Hines started doing his very credible Troughton impersonation during the Companion Chronicles, or was it when the Beeb hired David Warner to play Hartnell in the TV movie about the show's origins (and also to play the First Doctor in Capaldi's last couple of episodes)?

I think it was the whole Companion Chronicles and Lost Stories thing that got the whole ball rolling. Plus I think the original stance might have been more a Gary Russell thing when he was the BF producer (The CC started after he left and Nick Briggs took over).

Davros1 fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Feb 11, 2022

HappyCamperGL
May 18, 2014

i think the light at the end anniversary play was the first time big finish recast doctors in a full cast production?

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

The_Doctor posted:

I miss Gold’s leitmotifs though.

Yeah, me too. I do hope some of those come back, whoever takes the reigns.

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006

Bicyclops posted:

I like the current composer. He manages to sneak a little of the Murray Gold bombast in without overwhelming things. I liked Murray too, but the change was fun.

The composer is OK, but whoever has been doing the sound mixing for the last few years needs a good slap. I've had to watch the last 3 or so seasons with subtitles on as the music and sound effects blow out most of the dialogue in the show most of the time.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



Heads up: just had it pointed out to me that BritBox on Amazon US is streaming BLAKE'S 7.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Mr Beens posted:

The composer is OK, but whoever has been doing the sound mixing for the last few years needs a good slap. I've had to watch the last 3 or so seasons with subtitles on as the music and sound effects blow out most of the dialogue in the show most of the time.

This feels like everything lately. I've tried tweaking my own sound settings so many times, but it always feels like you're either getting blown away by sound effects or the dialogue is a whisper. Also the opening credits for everything are like three times as loud as the rest of the show. I have gotten very "old man yells at cloud" about sound mixing.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Sydney Bottocks posted:

When did BF change their stance on hiring soundalikes or whatever to play the Doctors that had passed on? I remember many years ago they used to have a FAQ with a line that said something like "you could hire David Troughton to play his dad, Sean Pertwee to play his dad, etc" and their response was "we wouldn't want to do that because we wouldn't want to risk potentially disrespecting the memories of Hartnell, Troughton, or Pertwee". Obviously their stance on that has changed, but I was curious as to when that happened; like was it after Frazer Hines started doing his very credible Troughton impersonation during the Companion Chronicles, or was it when the Beeb hired David Warner to play Hartnell in the TV movie about the show's origins (and also to play the First Doctor in Capaldi's last couple of episodes)?

E: David Bradley, not David Warner (though Warner did of course do some DW stuff for BF)

Entirely down to a change in management -- Gary Russell was strongly against the idea of recasts, while Nick Briggs and Ken Bentley are very much for it.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012
Why is Whittaker already out

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013

Flesnolk posted:

Why is Whittaker already out

3 seasons + specials is on par with most modern doctors?

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OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.

Flesnolk posted:

Why is Whittaker already out

She's been the Doctor since 2017, even if the BBC forgot to make any episodes.

Also I had a really dumb dream last night that for the 60th Anniversary special Big Finish got the rights to the Peter Cushing Dr. Who, and the story was him (recast) traveling to the main universe and trying to convince the increasingly unimpressed incarnations of the Doctor of his status.

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