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Slavvy posted:Hey so while we're here, it's the top cap bolt that you tighten to preload the bearings on those, then do up the pinch bolts, right? It looks like the same basic principle as the top triple design on a Ducati or KTM ie the top nut stops mattering after you do up the pinch bolt, because the bearing is being preloaded by the triple clamp itself. Yup you got it. Cool to see parallels in motorcycle front ends!
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Feb 10, 2022 22:11
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I do actually know someone who worked at CERN who has a fairly impressive collection of bikes that he maintains himself, and is a bit of a font of knowledge on the Honda CB range through the years. Dammit! Russian Bear posted:Yup you got it. Cool to see parallels in motorcycle front ends! Bicycle things I want on my motorbike: quick release chain links, quick release axles, being able to turn it upside-down for maintenance Motorcycle things I want on my bicycle: fucken standards you goddamn cunts. Hmm yes seat stems sized in 0.2mm increments, this is cool and good and not totally insane! Also Schrader valves, what the gently caress are those? gently caress that it's not anywhere near frail or complex or french enough, we need something far shittier and exclusive to bicycles alone!
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Feb 10, 2022 22:46
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I have absolutely zero problem with Presta valves and I'm convinced that everyone who does is doing something incredibly wrong, like failing to tighten down the screw after filling them, or is using their pump backwards or something. Pro tip: if your pump seems to suck with one type of valve or the other, get this and swap it on, it owns https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JLYDKIA/
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Feb 10, 2022 23:02
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Or, and here's an idea, not use a completely different and inferior fitting to the one that literally every other pneumatic tire on earth uses? The fitting so ubiquitous you can find a pump literally at the gas station, useable for free? Using a Schrader: shove the pump onto the valve, push the button/pump the lever until you get pressure, job done. Using a presta: carefully unwind the tiny nut off the miniature core stem a couple of turns. Manually tap the stem to break the seal. Extremely carefully put the pump fitting on, making sure it's PERFECTLY STRAIGHT so you don't bend the tiny stem, then turn the cam arm, with both hands of course because you need to make sure the head sits PERFECTLY STILL AND STRAIGHT or you'll bend the core stem. After pumping you must then very carefully reverse the above procedure. Also you can't ever just check the pressure, because the act of using the valve itself causes some pressure to escape. There is literally no advantage to them whatsoever, it is just stupid nonsense that has been permanently baked in by marketing bullshit.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:10
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Presta valves are the equivalent of shopping for brake rotors in the 2100s and all the cyberbike shops carry Buell ZTL brakes and all the cyberbike enthusiasts tell you how actually the brakes invented by Eric Buell in the 1990s are superior and really the only way to get reliable braking, which is why they have them installed them on their vintage 2050 Energica, oh you don't know what Energica is? You must be one of those consumer grade cybercyclists.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:18
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Maybe there's an advantage in not having as large a hole in a skinny road bike rim. Maybe. I don't mind presta but schrader is better for the gas station air of nothing else. gently caress Dunlop valves completely though.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:19
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I have had Presta valves on my bicycles for at least twenty years and I have never bent or damaged one. lol. Quit being a gorillaInvalido posted:gently caress Dunlop valves completely though. at least this we can agree on.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:20
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Invalido posted:Maybe there's an advantage in not having as large a hole in a skinny road bike rim. Maybe. I don't mind presta but schrader is better for the gas station air of nothing else. gently caress Dunlop valves completely though. There is no advantage, the proof of which is when I ask cycle people for any tangible advantage to them, they say dumb poo poo like this: Sagebrush posted:I have had Presta valves on my bicycles for at least twenty years and I have never bent or damaged one. lol. Quit being a gorilla Yeah the problem is definitely me not knowing how to operate a cam lever on a plastic pump, and not a lovely design from a deranged 19th century frenchman, that we already have a vastly superior alternative to, arbitrarily forcing a bespoke tool and pointlessly complicated and finicky procedure on me every time I want to put air in my tyres. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 23:26
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Not to mention keeping everything perfectly aligned is easier said than done when you're changing a flat with a hand pump in the pouring rain lol Presta valves have a singular advantage in a slightly smaller footprint for very narrow rims but I'm pretty sure most bicycles out there don't need that extra 2mm
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Feb 10, 2022 23:37
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If they were exclusive to expensive road bikes that would be great and fine, but my humble 29" MTB with it's 25mm wide hoops somehow still has to have them for some reason and that angers me.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:41
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Presta valves own, you Andres the Giant
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Feb 10, 2022 23:53
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A lot of manufacturers do dumb poo poo with tire valves and I hate it all.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:09
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Just asked a buddy who's into MTB about it, his take was that tubeless setups require sealant that aerosolizes and clogs Schrader valves much easier than Presta, and Schrader is harder to clear when it does clog. Doesn't apply to inner tube applications obviously, but 
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Feb 11, 2022 00:18
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Slavvy posted:If they were exclusive to expensive road bikes that would be great and fine, but my humble 29" MTB with it's 25mm wide hoops somehow still has to have them for some reason and that angers me. Buy some schrader wheels and inner tubes.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:24
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You want presta valves on your bike because that's what the fancy bikes like what they ride on the tour of France use. Schrader valves are what they use on bikes for children or the poors
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Feb 11, 2022 00:27
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Steakandchips posted:Buy some schrader wheels and inner tubes. Sadly I'm not made of money so I'm going to buy Schrader tubes and then just drill the holes out bigger instead. Which will be like a year from now cause I just got a five pack of presta tubes on special 
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Feb 11, 2022 00:35
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Dog Case posted:You want presta valves on your bike because that's what the fancy bikes like what they ride on the tour of France use. Schrader valves are what they use on bikes for children or the poors This is probably it. My bike pump works with either, no adapters needed, and I don’t use pumps at gas stations near me because they are loving disgusting.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:00
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Presta valves are garbage and their only possible advantage is in diameter. Schrader valves are perfectly fine. You can be as hamfisted with them as you care to be and unless you literally snap them off, they’re fine.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:27
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Fifty Three posted:Just asked a buddy who's into MTB about it, his take was that tubeless setups require sealant that aerosolizes and clogs Schrader valves much easier than Presta, and Schrader is harder to clear when it does clog. Doesn't apply to inner tube applications obviously, but Jim Silly-Balls posted:Presta valves advantage is in diameter. This is why. MTB uses 700C or 650B hoops like road so that could be why. Sealant clogs the poo poo out of Schrader. I've never had one gently caress up on me and I don't pay much attention to angles of attack or anything. unscrew valve, slam the coupler on, pull valve, fill tire, push valve, screw the valve shut, go mash. You wanna talk pains in the dick? loving gas station tire pumps Those loving chucks are always beat to six bags of hammered poo poo and never work. Toe Rag posted:This is probably it. My bike pump works with either, no adapters needed, and I don’t use pumps at gas stations near me because they are loving disgusting. Yeah this exactly. Who the gently caress wants to pay a dollar to use a hosed up tire chuck that's been gently caress knows where. Ride your [checks notes] bicycle with a minipump and put sealant in the tubes/tires. lol if your motorcycle or car doesn't have on board air.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:55
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I think the real reason bikes use presta was originally narrow rims and later on weight. At some point road bikes started moving towards narrower tires which required narrower rims. The smaller valve hole would theoretically be stronger. Older mountain bikes almost exclusively had Schrader valves, then in the 90s narrower tires became popular for cross country racing to reduce weight and rolling resistance, rims became narrower, and somebody thought to borrow the smaller valves from road bikes. Then they just kind of stuck around even though wheel preference started to swing back to wider tire and then eventually all the different larger diameters that exist now.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:40
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Lezyne has a pump head that you screw onto the valve so you can’t bend your valve, it does take a few extra seconds though. I use a lezyne pump exclusively for filling all my tires across 4 bicycles, a motorcycle and a car. There’s no rhyme or reason to bicycle things beyond ~tradition~ A lot of times and then manufacturers are too deep into a thing and that’s just how it is now because transaction costs are too high to switch. Standards in bicycle land only come about if one component manufacturer gets so dominant that everyone is forced to do the thing your engineers want (see shimano). But sometimes manufacturing wins out and says no we only want to do pressfit bottom brackets because it’s easier to make in a carbon frame.
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Feb 11, 2022 03:10
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Jazzzzz posted:Slavvy has already laid the truth down for you, but if your "very mechanically inclined" uncles-in-law suggested you unrack carbs and scope them out to see if there's crud in the float bowls as the first step in figuring out your bike's issues, they either have absolutely no clue what they're talking about or they're taking the piss
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Feb 11, 2022 03:59
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:To paraphrase Robert Downey Jr., you never unrack the carbs Ben stiller as: simple unrack Fr though you can't avoid unracking v4 carbs for anything but taking the bowls off so if you're taking them off you're going balls deep either way.
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Feb 11, 2022 05:15
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Thanks, message received. I appreciate the slap on the hand, it's just frustrating. I feel like I've been banging my face against the wall trying to figure this thing out. The symptoms are the same as I've described before. An intermittent inability to rev past 5 thousand rpms, a power dip between 3 and 4 thousand and an occasional fluctuating tach. Some days it will rev all the way to 7 thousand, but very gradually. I replaced the coil on the right side last year, and it ran very well for a few weeks, but was back to doing its old bullshit. It being intermittent feels like a fueling, vac or electrical issue to me, not mechanical. It has a new battery and new fuel pump. Neither of these things made a noticeable improvement. I found a groundwire just lying loose under the gastank, still nothing different after reattaching to the proper point. I really am just at a loss and short of taking it to a shop who may or may not have ever dealt with this type of bike before and throwing money at them, I've been left on my own to diagnose and repair as I go. Searching V4 forums has helped me make the repairs I've done so far, but this one continues to vex me. I'm willing to listen and learn, happily so, I just don't want to give up. Forgot something AGAIN. I'm leaking coolant out of the carb crossover pipes. I can tell they've been messed with before, because it looks like gray RTV was used in an attempt to seal them instead of buying the proper o rings. That's why I assumed the carbs coming out was a foregone conclusion, because those need replacing badly. gileadexile fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 07:24
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gileadexile posted:
I think you meant fuel here, only the Germans would consider water cooling carbs  Those crossover tubes are the reason why multi-carb racks are so expensive to fix and why nobody wants to do it, hence the glop of RTV from the PO. The o rings can be replaced by splitting the rack without completely removing all linkages (this is if those carbs are like my VFR) but it's going to upset the sync, at the very least. That's an annoying set of symptoms to troubleshoot on an old V4 carb bike and I don't envy you, and the value of the bike isn't really high enough to justify throwing mechanic dollars at it, so I understand the situation. But this could potentially be a ton of time or money before the light at the end of the tunnel. If you go the mechanic route, be prepared for it to be a money-is-no-object situation. If you tear it apart yourself, be prepared for it to end in frustration and a part-out. I'm pulling for you here because I love old Hondas and V4s and hate to give up on old bikes, but it's a poo poo situation.
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Feb 11, 2022 13:48
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A shituation.
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Feb 11, 2022 13:51
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Back when I had a GS750, one of its carb's pilot screws lodged itself in its pilot hole and I had to drill it out, but even using the smallest drill bit I could use, I drilled too far and made the hole too big. From then on, that cylinder was fuel-rich, and its spark plug had to be periodically scrubbed clean. I don't think I'll ever forget the time when I actually figured this out, while on the road: the bike suddenly would not accelerate beyond a certain RPM, and was just bogging, like it was 100cc past like 55 mph. I pulled over and thought about it, and exchanged the spark plug on that cylinder with a spare one that I had. The acceleration was then so fierce, like I was discovering 750ccs for the first time.
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Feb 11, 2022 15:58
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 Those are the tubes I'm talking about, one is circled in white. Pic stolen, mine is a repainted V45. And yes, it's a shituation all around. Like I said, it's developed a few issues since my purchase two years ago that leads me to believe it was patched together by the most hamfisted of PO's. (stands for piece of poo poo in this instance) Also, this is the second time a post I've made has resulted in a new thread title, so at least I have that going for me I suppose. Here, have some sooty sparkplug pictures as my thanks!    
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Feb 11, 2022 18:29
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Oh you actually did mean coolant. Yeah leaks there are somewhat common, easy to get at with the carbs out heh. Those plugs certainly do tell a tale.
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Feb 11, 2022 18:45
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Ok so the hoses you circled are for the radiator and don't connect to the carbs unless it has a bowl heater circuit, which I haven't seen on a v4 but that doesn't mean you haven't got one. You might have a leak from a hose, or a leak from one of the o-rings where the hose fittings press into the engine. Either way it's an easy straightforward fix. If it has bowl heater pipes, you can bypass those completely without issue. Those plugs though...your bike is running on 2 cylinders. Either two of them are massively overflowing with fuel, or more likely, you have a spark problem. I would start by working out which cylinders those plugs came out of, then swapping the coils around to see if the problem follows the coil or stays with the cylinder. That will tell you if you're replacing coils or taking out carbs.
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Feb 11, 2022 18:46
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Thanks guys. Nice to know that there really is a performance issue and that I'm not nuts or underestimating the performance of a 750. Going to try to do a bit of messing with it today, temps are in the mid 50s.
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Feb 11, 2022 18:49
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Will a weak spark be enough to diagnose, or swapping coils around be necessary?
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Feb 11, 2022 20:48
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gileadexile posted:Will a weak spark be enough to diagnose, or swapping coils around be necessary? Weak spark is absolutely enough. You need to set your industrial coil test rig to 4t, 12V DC feed and check. What's that, you haven't got one of those? That's a shame, guess you're swapping coils and looking at plug fouling.
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Feb 11, 2022 21:00
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Slavvy posted:Weak spark is absolutely enough. You need to set your industrial coil test rig to 4t, 12V DC feed and check. Feck. Ok, how long would it have to run on new plugs to be able to tell? Would idling in my shed be enough? I just finished taking the tank off and checking out the intake and checking the plugs the only way I know how (against cylinder head bare metal). Lost the light, but took lots of photos and videos. If any of that would be of use.
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Feb 11, 2022 22:39
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gileadexile posted:Feck. Ok, how long would it have to run on new plugs to be able to tell? Would idling in my shed be enough? I just finished taking the tank off and checking out the intake and checking the plugs the only way I know how (against cylinder head bare metal). Ok I will walk you through this step by step 1. Take the plugs out and note down which cylinders are super black and clearly not running. Replace the two black ones cause they're probably hosed at this point 2. Start the bike and ride it around until it starts to run like poo poo. This may not be necessary if it runs like poo poo immediately 2a. If it runs like poo poo immediately, briefly touch the headers one by one. The cold ones are not running and should correlate to the cylinders with the fouled plugs 2b. If it needs to be ridden before it runs like poo poo, do that, then pull the plugs and identify which ones are not running 3. Take the coils off the dead cylinders and swap them around with the ones that run. Replace any fouled plugs with new ones as they are likely permanently hosed and will confuse the situation. 4. Repeat 2a/2b. If the same cylinders are dead, you've narrowed the issue down to either the carbs or the crank pick-up for those cylinders. If the plug fouling migrates, you need new coils If any of the above sounds hard and confusing, cut your losses and take it to a mechanic.
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Feb 11, 2022 22:52
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Ok. I was just asking if I could change plugs and idle in my shed because it's in the buttcrack of winter, there is salt and cinders on the ground and didn't want to ride in 20 degree farenheit weather if it wasn't necessary. I wasn't trying to be a nuisance, I just thought asking advice in the questions thread was ok. I'll know better next time.
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Feb 11, 2022 23:02
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Bringing this to the questions thread now because I have more questions than just complaining in the discussion thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_UvjT_lZE You can kinda hear in the video that the startup whine sound (which I assume is either the starter or the fuel pump) comes on, but it's a lot longer than it usually is and seems like it's slightly higher pitch. Seems like it's the battery, right? I replaced the battery about a year ago with the same OEM battery Ducati uses after it started cranking slower and slower and then eventually wouldn't turn over. It's been plugged in almost nonstop since I last rode it at the end of December, and only unplugged from the same tender I use on my Harley when I felt like the Road Glide needed a day or two plugged in. Just before the last time I rode it, I added a 12v lead for a heated visor, and removed the 12v lead for the heated base layer stuff I use. I've since removed everything except the 12v trickle charger adapter, and everything I've added (LED lights) are all OEM parts connected to the OEM connectors. I tested the battery with a multimeter after being plugged in all night following removing the 12v visor lead, and it read 13.something. After trying to start it where it goes through that click-whine click-whine click-whine bit, the battery read 11.8. Okay, still sounds like the battery. Nobody has a compatible battery in stock near me, and I don't feel like driving farther to get one, so I ordered a new one. In the meantime, I got a power pack connected it up, and gave it a go. Turned right over. Except.. it was idling super high and seemed to be getting really hot. When I shifted into gear, it started idling lower, then higher, then lower, then higher, and seemed like it was getting hotter the whole time. I shut it off and it wouldn't start back up again; went right back to the click-whine click-whine click-whine it's doing in the video. I'm assuming the battery is bad because the power pack worked, but I'm concerned about the super high idle and how hot it seemed to be getting. I assume if there were an issue with the starter or something else that it wouldn't have even turned over, unless there's some weirdass computer issue that's causing all of that as a result of the sudden surge from the power pack. Any ideas?
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Feb 11, 2022 23:11
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Battery is hosed. Lots of EFI systems don't like hosed batteries and will run funny as a result. Also, if you have somewhat stale petrol, lots of modern EFI bikes will idle higher because they can't sustain a normal idle on barely flammable goo. Also: modern systems have long term learning ability and will adjust fuel trims based on long term trends. This memory is unaffected if you just remove the battery, but if it slowly draws down to single digit volts you often get a problem and the thing has to learn from scratch, a high and fluctuating idle would be expected. Alternatively: you induced a vacuum leak while you were loving around with your accessory poo poo. Bikes generally get hot as the engine keeps running, I'm putting that one down to psychology cause I can't think of anything that would make the bike get super hot super fast. Has it got oil in the engine? Slavvy fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 23:16
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Slavvy posted:Battery is hosed. Good point on the old fluids. It's not like it's sat for heinously long with the same gas, but it is the first time it's gotten to below freezing. My new garage isn't insulated and it gets cold as balls in there, so I assume some of that was partially it trying to loosen everything up. But yeah, there isn't oil all over the floor of my garage so empirically it has oil, but I'll check it for sure once the new battery comes in. I also didn't have the battery plate on between the battery and seat, and it just ran for like 5-10 minutes at high idle without moving, so I might just be paranoid. Eventually I have to trace down why the bike is killing batteries. I looked at my post history and I replaced the original battery in June of last year. I guess I could have gotten two duds in a row, but that seems statistically unlikely.
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Feb 11, 2022 23:29
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gileadexile posted:Ok. I was just asking if I could change plugs and idle in my shed because it's in the buttcrack of winter, there is salt and cinders on the ground and didn't want to ride in 20 degree farenheit weather if it wasn't necessary. I wasn't trying to be a nuisance, I just thought asking advice in the questions thread was ok. I'll know better next time. ? I hurt your feelings by telling you exactly what to do...? Idgi am I really that bad at English? It's not my first language but I've been learning since I was six. Strife posted:Good point on the old fluids. It's not like it's sat for heinously long with the same gas, but it is the first time it's gotten to below freezing. My new garage isn't insulated and it gets cold as balls in there, so I assume some of that was partially it trying to loosen everything up. But yeah, there isn't oil all over the floor of my garage so empirically it has oil, but I'll check it for sure once the new battery comes in. I also didn't have the battery plate on between the battery and seat, and it just ran for like 5-10 minutes at high idle without moving, so I might just be paranoid. I think you'll find the fault can be traced to the logo on the tank
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Feb 12, 2022 00:00
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