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Failed Imagineer posted:Well, there it is
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Feb 12, 2022 13:52
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Bobby Deluxe posted:This is why people should be banned from politics at 60, they don't have the neuroplasticity to adapt to new ideas. If you think Kissinger is anything other than an argument for extremely post natal abortion, you need to admit your brain has failed and you have no moral compass. Yeah but he probably always thought that. The better conclusion is "Tonty Blair should be banned from speaking"
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Feb 12, 2022 13:58
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feedmegin posted:To be a little bit pedantic, the Korean War, the brave Soviet aviators of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64th_Fighter_Aviation_Corps and their comrades in the Chinese People's Army's Air Force would like a word, here. To be much, much more pedantic - that wasn't a NATO war. I had originally called out the opening acts of World War 2, and Korea and Vietnam as wars that the US and/or UK had not had undisputed air superiority and had had a very bad time, but as we were talking about NATO (and the poster I was replying to specifically was talking about the Balkans) I thought it would be a distraction to bring them up. Of course Korea and Vietnam *are* extremely instructive too, because in both cases the USAF went into them believing their technological advantage in both planes and ordinance would let them just waltz straight through the Reds, before getting their arses handed to them because it turns out that they refused to act the way they had in the paper exercises and training that the Yanks had based their doctrine on. In particular current USAF doctrine - have a stupid-expensive plane that can *theoretically* wipe out a dozen planes before they even know it's there - is exactly where it was when F4s started getting blasted out of the sky over Da Nang by 20 year old MiGs. The F4 had a positive kill ratio, certainly, but it never even came close to achieving the domination that they'd based all of their designs - and huge amounts of money - on.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:12
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Bobby Deluxe posted:This is why people should be banned from politics at 60, they don't have the neuroplasticity to adapt to new ideas. If you think Kissinger is anything other than an argument for extremely post natal abortion, you need to admit your brain has failed and you have no moral compass. Show me the research that says over 60s can't adapt to new ideas. Stop with the ageism.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:14
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah, it's crazy to me how 'ethnicity' means so much in the former USSR. I knew a guy from Kazakhstan who insisted he was Russian because his grandparents had moved their from Russia in the Soviet times and his parents never left before independence. You'd think the whole project to build the Soviet citizen would have created a new shared identity but apparently not. I guess you were always going to reinforce those perceived divisions with the Soviet approach to constituent 'nationalities' As with all such attempts, from Rome to Britain, the "shared identity" that everyone's meant to abide by is actually just the identity of the group with the most swords/guns.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:17
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goddamnedtwisto posted:As with all such attempts, from Rome to Britain, the "shared identity" that everyone's meant to abide by is actually just the identity of the group with the most swords/guns. That's usually true but I feel like it's not quite the case with the idea of the New Soviet Man/Woman. There was obviously an ideological/moral dimension to it that can't just be written off as Russification.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:26
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Show me the research that says over 60s can't adapt to new ideas. Stop with the ageism. There is plenty of research on reduced neuroplasticity in the elderly (not on work laptop so can't link fulltext). But as you point out, it's a bit ageist nonsense to say that no-one over 60 can adapt. And I doubt the researchers are using 60 as a cutoff age since people tend to work another decade past that point now anyway
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Feb 12, 2022 14:29
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https://twitter.com/SoozUK/status/1492470815522238466 Sooz Kempner is so good at stuff like this 
fuctifino fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 14:35
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Trying to fill out an online form in preparation for 
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Feb 12, 2022 14:39
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Failed Imagineer posted:There is plenty of research on reduced neuroplasticity in the elderly I'm on phone too and about to go out but I would like to see how they control for other factors such as lack of education in earlier life (school leaving age was only raises to 16 when I was already in school, CSEs (pre GCSE there were o-levels that only about 20% (IIRC) of kids took, CSEs were introduced as a qualification for wider range of abilities but many kids left school without any qualifications. Only a small % of kids went to uni. Now I have to go out so have to suspend thoughts here.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:43
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Plus back in the day people used to huff leaded exhaust fumes directly from the pipe, as a pastime
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Feb 12, 2022 14:45
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ThomasPaine posted:Well yeah, but you're only doing that because you have the weird ingrained idea that they're somehow 'different'! I get that new arrivals from Russia would be like that but it's incredible that even after generations they basically didn't assimilate at all. I feel like the great grandchildren of even the most gammony family moving to the Costa del Sol would be turn out pretty solidly Spanish, but who knows It isn't 'great grandchildren' though, is it? Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until about 30 years ago, well within my living memory for instance. There are plenty of people living there now who moved there from Russia proper when it was all the same country, and plenty of people who were already living there when it was all part of the same country but happened to speak a slightly different Slavic language/have different customs within that same, unified country.
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Feb 12, 2022 14:54
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Failed Imagineer posted:Plus back in the day people used to huff leaded exhaust fumes directly from the pipe, as a pastime that four star used to hit just right getting light headed counting up your green shield stamps
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Feb 12, 2022 14:54
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It's not ageist to say that people shouldn't be given positions of massive global influence when they are desperately and murderously trying to hold onto an idea of how they understand the world to be. In Blair's case, neoliberalism. In Kissinger's case, nakedly evil US hegemony. At this point I don't even think it's ideology for them. Their brains have operated one way their entire lives, and now that the world is trying not to work that way, the best ideas they can come up with are essentially 'can we go back please, none of this makes sense and I don't like it.' I'm sick of seeing lords and US senators who are barely able to grasp the concept of email who are given authority to legislate social media and tech 'innovators' that are demolishing labour regulations. I get what you're saying but you have to admit the people who can stay sharp and up to date in their sixties (and especially beyond) are in the minority. Saying not all old people are like that is null and void when the political landscape of the west is led by an old man who's best political anecdote is about threatening a Latin guy who tried to get into his pool. Yes, some people are still sharp in their older years. Some people still have good ideas. But talking about neuroplasticity is not ageism, it's a recognised scientific tendency. It can be directly observed in a ton of people making very bad decisions. Clarkson and his boomer army doubting renewable energy because they read a joke about clouds and solar panels in the 80s. The last 2 US presidents. Boomers desperately trying to find justifications for having life go back to how they understand it instead of wearing a mask in shops and not going to the pub as much. I get that you're taking this personally because you're older, and I've always respected your input becaue you've had more life experience and done far more useful and interesting things with it. But you can't look at a political landscape that is almost entirely old men legislating against cloud and tell me there's not a problem. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 14:58
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ThomasPaine posted:That's usually true but I feel like it's not quite the case with the idea of the New Soviet Man/Woman. There was obviously an ideological/moral dimension to it that can't just be written off as Russification. Post WWII, Russian language had a pretty special place in the Soviet education system and in general political/professional context, being seen both as the "inter-ethnic" (межнациональный) language and the mother's tongue of the largest ethnic group within the USSR (Russians, that is). While there were certainly some availability of education in other languages, it generally wasn't as widespread (or seen as useful) as receiving education in Russian, and even then Russian would be taught as the second language. This was much more prominent in RSFSR, but was still the case in other republics. This is also the reason why a lot of Russian immigrants to those republics never bothered to learn local languages and never assimilated - they never had the reason to, since everybody around them knew how to speak Russian already, and they belonged to the The Soviet approach to cultures and ethnicities is a fascinating topic in general, as is the whole New Soviet Man thing (that tbh didn't really seem to catch on and always felt kinda, uh, stale, in the same way the whole "road to communism by year <current year + 20>" thing feels)
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Feb 12, 2022 15:00
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Russia-Ukraine crisis: UK won’t be able to fly people out - minister afghanistan is too recent to properly memory hole i guess
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Feb 12, 2022 15:03
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So, that's roughly 26,625 years worth of member contributions spaffed down the pipe then.
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Feb 12, 2022 15:10
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that's only a cover for keith's wet egg bill to date as leader
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Feb 12, 2022 15:16
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but actually we should all stay in Labour and then somehow make them into a leftist party again
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Feb 12, 2022 15:23
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if you had a new left party would you be allowed to make members sign an agreement to the effect that undertaking any activity that is at odds with leftist principles gets them chucked out, so as you don't end up with... well, the labour party like can you do that, is it allowed
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Feb 12, 2022 15:25
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the only new party you could probably set up would be like the five star party in italy, just some weird online thing with a broad base sprinkled with lunatics
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Feb 12, 2022 15:30
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Raffles, though.
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Feb 12, 2022 15:31
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crispix posted:if you had a new left party would you be allowed to make members sign an agreement to the effect that undertaking any activity that is at odds with leftist principles gets them chucked out, so as you don't end up with... well, the labour party The best you can practically do is create a party organised around principles that are repulsive to melts, such as "all people deserve dignity and respect, yes all of them", and "private property is theft", and hope that it keeps them out for a while. But there's no magic solution to entryism, and thus far there's always been 19 cunts for every 1 good egg
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Feb 12, 2022 15:32
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Labour should fund itself by having Starmer twitchstream PMQs and doing meme dances when he gets a big donation
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Feb 12, 2022 15:34
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Jel Shaker posted:the only new party you could probably set up would be like the five star party in italy, just some weird online thing with a broad base sprinkled with lunatics We already have post-Farage UKIP though?
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Feb 12, 2022 15:48
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Failed Imagineer posted:Labour should fund itself by having Starmer twitchstream PMQs and doing meme dances when he gets a big donation Starmer in a hot tub full of eggs.
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Feb 12, 2022 15:49
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Bobby Deluxe posted:This is why people should be banned from politics at 60, they don't have the neuroplasticity to adapt to new ideas. If you think Kissinger is anything other than an argument for extremely post natal abortion, you need to admit your brain has failed and you have no moral compass. wasn't he also one of the theranos supporters anyway i don't think anyone should be banned based on age, we just shouldn't vote in assholes (but lol)
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Feb 12, 2022 15:50
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Adam Something has a pretty good video about the recent history of Ukraine, including all the ways Russia has been loving with them to cause the civil war. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obMTYs30E9A He's posted another one today but I haven't watched that one yet.
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Feb 12, 2022 15:50
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Bobby Deluxe posted:It's not ageist to say that people shouldn't be given positions of massive global influence when they are desperately and murderously trying to hold onto an idea of how they understand the world to be. In Blair's case, neoliberalism. In Kissinger's case, nakedly evil US hegemony. i'm not convinced this has anything to do with age and more about how we structure our society and treat our elders
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Feb 12, 2022 15:52
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yeah i'd be wary about any solid statements about how consciousness or the brain in general work we're still at the 'it just does' stage. Like there is obviously a very material basis, no need to believe in souls or anything but that's about as grounded as it gets. And i think ultimately it comes down to this: if you get to 60 and are still in relatively good health, would you want to be written off as 'done' because your 'neuroplasticity' is reduced?
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Feb 12, 2022 16:16
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Jel Shaker posted:the only new party you could probably set up would be like the five star party in italy, just some weird online thing with a broad base sprinkled with lunatics Podemos in Spain was able to form within the last decade and became the second/third biggest party, it's now in a left-wing coalition and doing good poo poo for workers rights
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Feb 12, 2022 16:26
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What if you neuroplasticise into being really cool and good.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:35
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Clearly what we should do is measure everyone's neuroplasticity and ban them from engaging in politics if it's too low.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:44
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ThomasPaine posted:I just don't get it, if my grandparents had moved to France from Britain and I was born in France and raised in France and spoke French, I'd be French, perhaps with British heritage, but definitely French. This doesn't seem very controversial to me, but would apparently be incomprehensible to lots of people, who seem to think that there's some permanent immutable distinction between 'nationality' tied to blood. Bizarre take. I thought I'd discuss this still a bit further. In English Russians are just Russians. But in Russian language, there's two levels of being Russian: there's the russkii meaning ethnic Russians, and then you have rossiiskii which means citizens of Russia. So when you talk about someone being Russian, you need to be clear which one you mean or you might get into argument like you did. Then there's the fact that ethnic Russians formed many Russian enclaves during the Soviet years in which they practically never had any contact with the local culture or language. This is very clear in the Baltic republics where the majoritys speak very difficult to learn, non-slavic and even non-indoeuropean languages. So e.g. when Estonia became independent they only gave citizenship automatically to those who had been citizens before the Soviet occupation and the descendants of them. Other residents had to apply for citizenship and pass a language test and a constitution test, which meant most of the Russian population in Estonia was required to learn the language. Or you could just use the Soviet passport that you still had and use it to apply for citizenship of Russian Federation. Today, three decades after independence, something like 7% of Estonia's residents are not citizens. I suppose imagine that you were in an English family and your family moved to somewhere in Scotland. Then Scotland declared independence and made Scots and Gaelic the only official languages and a requirement for citizenship. What are the odds that, say, your parents would willingly assimilate, instead of sticking to the English community, watching BBC and reading Daily Mail? Maybe your kids would have a better chance of assimilating by going through the school system and conscription, but the chances are they would still identify as English because that's just how identity stuff seems to work. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 16:45
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Regarde Aduck posted:would you want to be written off as 'done' because your 'neuroplasticity' is reduced? I mean, my cutoff is 65 but yes please.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:45
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Dabir posted:Adam Something "Nato is a defensive alliance, so why would Russia be afraid of it." is the level of insightful analysis of international relations that Adam Something is bringing to the table here. While I appreciate the compilation of press briefings, he should have stuck to laughing at Elon Musk and posting about trains.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:51
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Maybe new countries wouldn't be asking to join NATO if Russia wasn't actively conquering its neighbours
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Feb 12, 2022 16:56
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Nenonen posted:I thought I'd discuss this still a bit further. Yeah, its language that is the barrier that defines most tribalism identity. People have been going to other countries can continents for thousands of years, but teaching a second language to kids only really started a century or two ago. And only then to the rich kids. And your brain finds it hard to learn languages after the age of 12. So adults get stuck in their way with their only language. So you went to France, but your kids only speak English, so they stay with their family and other english speakers. You don't get to learn about France's history or how good the place it, only how England was.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:56
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Poor little Russia, so scared of the Great Enemy, it has no choice but to invade Georgia and Crimea and forment civil war in Ukraine as a prelude to invasion there too. Oh if only all these tiny little countries that wouldn't stand a chance against Russia's army alone didn't want to join a mutual defense pact for some reason.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:00
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Nenonen posted:I thought I'd discuss this still a bit further. In English Russians are just Russians. But in Russian language, there's two levels of being Russian: there's the russkii meaning ethnic Russians, and then you have rossiiskii which means citizens of Russia. So when you talk about someone being Russian, you need to be clear which one you mean or you might get into argument like you did. This is very interesting but the Scotland example doesn't really gel because the vast majority of Scots don't speak a word of Scots or Gaelic and haven't for hundreds of years, it's not like English is still the language of the oppressive elites here now. But I take your point in the baltic context.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:02
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