(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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The Voice of Labor posted:maybe an analogy to natural selection is applicable. Lol
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Feb 12, 2022 16:56
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| # ? May 26, 2024 04:38 |
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Feb 12, 2022 17:01
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Validating your eugenicist world view leftistly
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Feb 12, 2022 17:02
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tokin opposition posted:Don't believe capitalism's hype, it's actually very bad at being efficient or cutting things down to the bone. What it's actually good at is being cruel to the person below you and calling that efficiency as a post-hoc rationalization. boosting this hugely capitalism, in terms of actual efficiency, productivity, etc is completely awful at those, even at what is considered its main effect: the generation of wealth it cannot be overstated how it is incredibly bad at that. The main reason why we are impressed with it is that, in terms of any other form of socio-economic organization (or mode of production), it leaps ahead because no other format had an explicit purpose/drive of accumulation of capital towards even greater accumulation, which has a collateral effect of generating wealth but, in comparison, even if the rate of generation of wealth has been slower, periods like the Islamic Golden Age or the Song dynasty in China had a much more profound generation of wealth than industrial capitalism. That's a tricky one to grasp. While capitalism has generated far more value in absolute terms, it doesn't build wealth in aggregate with society as other modes have done in the past. Capitalists do not build Samarkand, or the brilliant irrigation systems in Central Asia; they build Manchester.
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Feb 12, 2022 18:23
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https://twitter.com/polishXcellence/status/1487109825871982595
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Feb 12, 2022 19:01
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Validating your eugenicist world view leftistly you are consistently dumb and blindly antiscience. you think like an american reactionary
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Feb 12, 2022 20:25
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The Voice of Labor posted:maybe an analogy to natural selection is applicable. as long as a trait doesn't impede an organism's ability to survive and reproduce, it's not selected against. as long as an entity driven by capital accumulation is making billions of dollars and poisoning and oppressing the world to a satisfactory degree, dropping a few hundred million on useless sycophants and slave drivers won't, in and of itself, prevent that entity from making billions of dollars next year why would sycophants and slave drivers be useless instead of critical cogs in the oppression machine
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Feb 12, 2022 20:35
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The Voice of Labor posted:you are consistently dumb and blindly antiscience. you think like an american reactionary 
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Feb 12, 2022 20:42
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the purpose of the middle manager isn't to maximize efficiency but to maximize exploitation
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Feb 12, 2022 20:47
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The Voice of Labor posted:you are consistently dumb and blindly antiscience. you think like an american reactionary says the guy who doesn't even understand The Immortal Science 
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Feb 12, 2022 20:47
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We're getting off topic again. Which communist leader had the best bussy? (It's mao)
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Feb 12, 2022 21:01
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The Voice of Labor posted:you are consistently dumb and blindly antiscience. you think like an american reactionary I really think you should take a couple of day off the internet and interact with normal people.
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Feb 12, 2022 21:10
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The Voice of Labor posted:you are consistently dumb and blindly antiscience. you think like an american reactionary turn your monitor on
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Feb 13, 2022 01:29
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dead gay comedy forums posted:boosting this hugely I have to constantly remind myself that I have a lot of training from systems embedded in my psyche, so I find myself questioning things that people "just know," aka propaganda. A non-economic example: who won the Space Race? Well, as I'm American my first though is, "Well obviously we did, we beat the USSR to the moon!" But then you go back and look, and we got our god drat clock cleaned on every objective except the Moon landing, and it seemed the Soviets we're really trying to race us there. They didn't care, they had satellites and orbiting science labs and other poo poo to figure out rather than a literal moon shot.
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Feb 13, 2022 02:01
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tokin opposition posted:We're getting off topic again. Which communist leader had the best bussy? (It's mao) The didn't call him Iron Joe for his diiiiiiiick
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Feb 13, 2022 02:41
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Halloween Jack posted:I've been thinking about Graeber's concept of "bullshit jobs." I work in administration and I've certainly seen a lot of inefficiency over the years. I'm not sure why the profit motive doesn't continue cutting costs to the bone and eliminating unnecessary white collar jobs, if they're truly unnecessary. I want to come back to this to make another point: it is part of the profit motive to generate "bullshit jobs" because the financialization of the American economy means that bullshit jobs are more profitable than what we perceive to be productive jobs, i.e. manufacturing and socially-useful services America don't have factories anymore because it's better ROI to just plow that money into stocks and speculation and investment ventures
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Feb 13, 2022 06:01
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having not read the book but the wikipedia article on the book i'm going to take issues with what this guy terms a bullshit jobquote:The author contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs: everything i've bolded hardly qualifies as a bullshit job. the rest is middle manager bullshit that would be severely curtailed under socialism and gradually evaporate as workers management developed
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Feb 13, 2022 06:18
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Disagree on door attendants and airline desk staff. For the first you can open your door yourself or hit a Communist ADA button to open the door, and for the second why do we need to have people absorb the petient crying of boomers and other assholes? Any scheduling, question answering or accessibility aids can be automated or provided more generally. (Not to get into discussions of the utility and sustainability of air flights, which I would doubt.)
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Feb 13, 2022 06:45
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Raskolnikov38 posted:having not read the book but the wikipedia article on the book i'm going to take issues with what this guy terms a bullshit job I agree with the list. If we're living in ideal world land no one would be a "receptionist" with the low prestige that might hang over that role. You could have a front of house type role in an establishment but it wouldn't be a "receptionist". quote:duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing bloated code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive; This is the one that I'm closest to disagreeing with entirely, but in an ideal world the bags should arrive and the code goes out the door effectively feature complete and functional. Rather than the (union) baggage handlers being over worked leading to the necessity of a non union minimum wage desk role to ameliorate passengers and do basic admin. The programmers making the code should have the time to make a functional program before the next project comes up, rather than a code janitor being employed after the fact to fix and clean up a program that was implemented in a rushed or incorrect way in the first place. The book goes quite heavily into the systemic inefficiencies inherent to capitalism.
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Feb 13, 2022 15:47
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Southpaugh posted:I agree with the list. If we're living in ideal world land no one would be a "receptionist" with the low prestige that might hang over that role. You could have a front of house type role in an establishment but it wouldn't be a "receptionist". In a socialist society where workers have all the leverage over their workplace, they have zero obligation to do emotional labor on behalf of the firm. It would be customers that have to do all the sweet talking.
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Feb 13, 2022 15:50
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tokin opposition posted:We're getting off topic again. Which communist leader had the best bussy? (It's mao) uncle ho
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Feb 13, 2022 15:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:In a socialist society where workers have all the leverage over their workplace, they have zero obligation to do emotional labor on behalf of the firm. It would be customers that have to do all the sweet talking. Someone being in charge of a social space will basically always emerge imo. You need to have a human point of contact with the organisation that is running the chainsaw fighting tournament night you go to, or the cyberbrothel or the drum circle you work at or whatever. It wouldn't be "emotional labour" as we understand it there wouldn't be a bottom line to be motivated by.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:12
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Southpaugh posted:Someone being in charge of a social space will basically always emerge imo. You need to have a human point of contact with the organisation that is running the chainsaw fighting tournament night you go to, or the cyberbrothel or the drum circle you work at or whatever. It wouldn't be "emotional labour" as we understand it there wouldn't be a bottom line to be motivated by. The point is, you have to treat workers respectfully to get service under socialism - whereas in a marketized society it's the other way around where you can demand service and compel workers to bow & scrape for your money.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:19
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Under socialism the worker reserves the right to tell you to go gently caress yourself.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:23
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Raskolnikov38 posted:having not read the book but the wikipedia article on the book i'm going to take issues with what this guy terms a bullshit job 1. He's going by workers' subjective assessments, so if a worker thinks their job is bullshit, he counts it as bullshit. 2. "Bullshit" includes things that are necessary under capitalism but which are cleaning up someone else's mess. (The duct tapers to which Southpaugh alludes.) The "someone else" is usually someone higher up in the company org chart. IMO both those points make more sense in combination. There's always a degree to which any organization in any mode of production will need people to clean up inefficiencies, but under capitalism there's a lot more of that, and individual workers are best positioned to determine whether they're actually doing reasonable, necessary clean-up, or they're just covering up for obvious and redundant bullshit that could easily be eliminated, if only someone in a position of actual power could see the inefficiency. They can't. I don't want to defend everything about Graeber's approach because I haven't thought enough about it, but that seems generally correct to me. Pener Kropoopkin posted:The point is, you have to treat workers respectfully to get service under socialism - whereas in a marketized society it's the other way around where you can demand service and compel workers to bow & scrape for your money. To tie this to the "bullshit" jobs thing: in the case of a receptionist (or really any customer-facing worker) under socialism that would still ostensibly be a necessary job. The problem is that under capitalism their job is largely dealing with customers being mad because of stupid poo poo the bosses are doing. The bosses are never aware of that, precisely because the job of the receptionist has become to shield them from their own bullshit. I think anyone who's done almost any customer-facing admin work inside a company that has a sales team (who are all incentivized to make absurd over-the-moon promises that are not based in reality) has had to deal with this. It's the admin or receptionist who has to deal with the consequences of reality. They can see the bullshit. The sales team working on commission is incentivized to ignore it. Anyway, once you think about what the jobs entail and what their real role is within the larger organization, I think you can make the argument that "receptionist" under capitalism and "receptionist" under socialism are effectively different jobs. One is bullshit, the other isn't.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:26
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Southpaugh posted:Under socialism the worker reserves the right to tell you to go gently caress yourself. unironically yes quote:After several days of training about customer service at McDonald’s, a young Soviet teenager asked the McDonald’s trainer a very serious question: “Why do we have to be so nice to the customers? After all, WE have the hamburgers, and they don’t!”
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Feb 13, 2022 16:26
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Southpaugh posted:Under socialism the worker reserves the right to tell you to go gently caress yourself. My wife would trade a huge portion of her salary for this.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:26
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Southpaugh posted:Under socialism the worker reserves the right to tell you to go gently caress yourself. actually really loving awesome right to have as a service worker
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Feb 13, 2022 16:27
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DirtyRobot posted:Going from memory, there are two relevant aspects to Graeber's approach that result in those inclusions: okay that makes more sense because my argument was basically "you're still going to need to someone to direct visitors and answer questions and luggage won't magically stop going missing under socialism, so the receptionist and the person who can tell the baggage handlers to look for a bag are still needed"
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Feb 13, 2022 16:42
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Southpaugh posted:Under socialism the worker reserves the right to tell you to go gently caress yourself. well, it's a finer and more subtle point to grasp there, because we tend to imagine those differences in slices, sections, pieces to what we have right now instead of the vast structural difference (that is often not clear) that such ideas come with. In a socialist society of substantial development of worker relations, the solidarity fostered and involved there would make service to each other far more pleasant and amenable to all relevant parties the improvement of the standard of living and labor relations, the development of social welfare and so much more lead to the reduction of alienation, which is what causes Karen syndrome. It wouldn't be even a matter of having to be respectful because, in such conditions, people would be far more likely to naturally be more polite and respectful to one another
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Feb 13, 2022 17:29
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my favourite bits from blackshirts and reds was how poo poo and terrible service workers were to customers in the USSR. the classic trope of the receptionist keeping you waiting in line while she chats on the phone with her girlfriend about neighbourhood gossip, or coming in to find nobody at all because the worker had hosed off to go do mid-day shopping or just taking a nap.
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Feb 13, 2022 17:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:okay that makes more sense because my argument was basically "you're still going to need to someone to direct visitors and answer questions and luggage won't magically stop going missing under socialism, so the receptionist and the person who can tell the baggage handlers to look for a bag are still needed" i think there is also the process of managing capitalist contradictions through surplus recycling that justifies the existence of certain "do nothing" bullshit jobs
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Feb 13, 2022 17:59
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tokin opposition posted:We're getting off topic again. Which communist leader had the best bussy? (It's mao) Not even close, sorry. 
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Feb 13, 2022 18:36
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Never forget what they took from you.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:41
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PhilippAchtel posted:Not even close, sorry. what a handsome man
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Feb 13, 2022 18:42
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Feb 13, 2022 18:45
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What? You need help holding up a stage coach? Whatever you say, Soso. 
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Feb 13, 2022 18:45
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Lol.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:46
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Humanity really lost something when the USSR fell. It wasn't perfect, especially in its latter days, but that we all lost something is more and more apparent every day.
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Feb 13, 2022 19:42
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| # ? May 26, 2024 04:38 |
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You know what they call him? Soup Stalin!
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Feb 13, 2022 19:58
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