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BoldFace posted:Playing Putin's advocate for a second, despite how chaotic things have been for the past few days, I don't think there have been many casualties yet. Broken gas pipes, blown up cars, holes in the walls? Yes. People in body bags? No. There's been over 10 thousand body bags over the course of Putin's incursion of the past 8 years. The question isn't whether Russians are going to start killing people (which is what these false flags usually set up), but whether they are going to start killing many more people than they have been so far.
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Feb 19, 2022 12:31
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Selectively quoting to support your viewpoint makes for a very engaging conversation. I can post like that as well: France24 posted:"We understand all the risks. We understand that the risks are there," Zelensky told reporters.
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Feb 19, 2022 12:33
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Mesmerized by this DNR museum https://twitter.com/andante_sen/status/1494713543274508288?t=c7fUQSzSbgG4HP4guU5n7w&s=19
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Feb 19, 2022 13:24
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fatherboxx posted:Mesmerized by this DNR museum In their defence, the piece of poo poo Givi did actually look similar.
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Feb 19, 2022 13:26
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It appears the Gorton's Fisherman is a traitor to his people
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Feb 19, 2022 13:36
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Zelenskyi and Kuleba went to Munich after all. Can’t say I’m fully on board with that, but it’s probably the last real chance to make an appeal to the world that they have, in a scenario where Russia attacks government-controlled territory.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:08
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Selling the Siberian forests and gas for several times below the world market rate to China isn't paying off politically. First grandpa was forced to watch the olympics alone, recognized Taiwan as a part of China and China wouldn't recognize Crimea, now this. When someone talks about the great Russian-Chinese alignment, it's bs. https://mobile.twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1494999291802312708
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Feb 19, 2022 14:13
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https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494948705044152325 This Russian journalist crew sure is good at hiding from Right Sector saboteurs.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:20
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Somaen posted:Selling the Siberian forests and gas for several times below the world market rate to China isn't paying off politically. First grandpa was forced to watch the olympics alone, recognized Taiwan as a part of China and China wouldn't recognize Crimea, now this. I mean, he also said NATO should stop accepting new members. https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2...HJ-1pjUCJc.html Paladinus fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 14:31
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Alchenar posted:Oh well in that case I don't think that it's relevant at all. When the shooting starts then the movement of forces will be proof in themselves of what the objective was. Also the Western line has been 'invasion carries costs, also it looks like you've positioned to threaten Kiev'. Nobody has actually linked costs to a defined invasion end state which I think is probably deliberate and gives the West some space to apply leverage and escalating costs for a return to status-quo-ante. The status quo is completely untenable, that's why there is a conflict in the first place.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:38
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Paladinus posted:I mean, he also said NATO should stop accepting new members. Those statements aren’t contradictory though? I suppose in that it aligns with Russias interest it could be seen as supporting Russia but a weaker NATO also benefits China.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:42
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NATO is at its core an anti Russian alliance. I bet from the Russian perspective China looks pretty tame in comparison.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:45
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Majorian posted:I honestly don’t see that as anything more than a lame post-hoc justification for the White House getting it wrong so many times in a row over this incident. Calling out Russia’s potential invasion strategies isn’t going to defang anything. If they invade, it’s going to largely follow the Georgia ‘08 model: breakaway region provokes the national government to send in the troops, Russia send in their troops and drive them off, and the breakaway region gets a new lease on life while weakening the national government. If that does end up happening (and I’m still skeptical), the whole “leaking it to the press so they put out another flurry of panicked pieces” model isn’t going to stop it. There are quicker ways of warning Zelensky. If Russia goes forward then no history book is going to note that Biden issued multiple statements that were off by a couple days. Every day that Russia postpones though is a Ukraine that is much more prepared and has that much more time for western equipment to flow into the country. If Russia withdraws then history books are going to talk about how the strong international condemnation of the invasion contributed to that outcome. Of which Bidens multiple statements will be seen as a large part of that. I don’t see anything you’re claiming as critical here being anything more than transient and certainly not counter productive. The only way your narrative here makes any difference is if the whole border presence and build up here was just always a massive international troll and Putin and Crab and Goyle get a good sneer out of it. But before you go all in on that just reflect that this effort to field half of Russias combat equipment is incurring massive costs and will significantly reduce those units readiness for an extended period.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:53
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Murgos posted:If Russia goes forward then no history book is going to note that Biden issued multiple statements that were off by a couple days. Every day that Russia postpones though is a Ukraine that is much more prepared and has that much more time for western equipment to flow into the country. No one does anything because of what they imagine people in the future will think of them. The victor writes history anyway. The Russians obviously expected a response, but probably not this one. They want a security agreement with NATO, making the US look stupid is just icing on the cake. Rodiel fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:09
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https://twitter.com/langfittnpr/status/1494963755653943299
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Feb 19, 2022 15:14
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I dont think that outside of a small group of hard left US people anyone thinks the US is looking bad. Quite the contrary, this is probably one of the most successful uses of declassified intelligence to shape public opinion and events ever.
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Feb 19, 2022 15:14
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Belarus exercises are scheduled to conclude tomorrow too.
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Feb 19, 2022 15:17
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Alchenar posted:I dont think that outside of a small group of hard left US people anyone thinks the US is looking bad. Quite the contrary, this is probably one of the most successful uses of declassified intelligence to shape public opinion and events ever. May I see the declassified intelligence? edit: I have also heard that energy prices in Germany have been skyrocketing because the US wont allow the new gas pipeline from Russia to be turned on. I don't know what effect this has had, but it will have one in the future, as people find out why they had to pay out the rear end for power. Rodiel fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:19
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The US looks so stupid for predicting that Russia would invade Ukraine, after Russia built up hundreds of thousands of troops om the border over many months, told all women and children to evacuate the possible conflict area, and started burning all its documents at the embassy. Truly foolish for the US to believe that an invasion is imminent in such circumstances.
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Feb 19, 2022 15:23
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OctaMurk posted:The US looks so stupid for predicting that Russia would invade Ukraine, after Russia built up hundreds of thousands of troops om the border over many months, told all women and children to evacuate the possible conflict area, and started burning all its documents at the embassy. Truly foolish for the US to believe that an invasion is imminent in such circumstances. The capital flight is going to destroy Ukraine's economy for decades at least. Rodiel fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:28
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Majorian posted:Biden hemorrhages credibility every time he says an invasion is imminent, and then it doesn't materialize. It makes him look like he's trying to manufacture consent, so he can make a war actually happen. Take about hemorrhaging credibility...
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Feb 19, 2022 15:32
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No country's borders should be changed by violent force says Kamala. Instead they should be changed by silent coups so you can extract capital from the civilian body without damaging their working bodies Majorian posted:Biden hemorrhages credibility every time he says an invasion is imminent, and then it doesn't materialize. It makes him look like he's trying to manufacture consent, so he can make a war actually happen. It's the sort of language that the Marco Rubios of the West use when they beat the drums for war with Iran. This is a game of deception and mis information by Biden and others yelling that Ukraine is going to be invaded they are economically killing Ukraine aswell as making the propaganda more focused on. So Russia blows up a jeep and a pipeline to create bullshit justifications..but the US was saying this would happen for months. So the justifications are questioned more. Like the US loves to do. We will destroy the Ukrainian economy inadvertantly to "stop Russian aggression" * destroy is used lightly here. Russia is doing harm the economy of Ukraine in terms of the sea blockades etc. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:34
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OctaMurk posted:The US looks so stupid for predicting that Russia would invade Ukraine, after Russia built up hundreds of thousands of troops om the border over many months, told all women and children to evacuate the possible conflict area, and started burning all its documents at the embassy. Truly foolish for the US to believe that an invasion is imminent in such circumstances. the US has been saying that a russian invasion has been imminent for months and that we should trust them because the CIA told them this, and when the invasion hasn't manifested as expected it's been somehow because the US said that there was going to be an invasion. it's very clearly just their default posture in this phase of the conflict. i agree that the US public relations machine is probably good enough to actually sell that message, but it's not very plausible on its face it's also rather risky since it means that *not* invading is basically an admission of defeat for putin
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Feb 19, 2022 15:35
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V. Illych L. posted:the US has been saying that a russian invasion has been imminent for months and that we should trust them because the CIA told them this, and when the invasion hasn't manifested as expected it's been somehow because the US said that there was going to be an invasion. it's very clearly just their default posture in this phase of the conflict. i agree that the US public relations machine is probably good enough to actually sell that message, but it's not very plausible on its face The American media has very little credibility with actual Americans under the age of 60. They live in a bygone age. Also Putin has already won, he made the US look stupid and ineffectual vs Russias ability to provide gas to Europe Rodiel fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:38
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V. Illych L. posted:t It means that not invading let’s him go Hahaha look at the silly Americans with their alarmism and their lust for Ukrainian blood. Russia only desires peace. They damaged the Ukrainian economy for nothing and these are the guys you want to be friends with? CIA kept predicting an invasion like idiots.” It’s not really a Russian defeat if they get to do the narrative they’ve been pushing for months and portray themselves as the rational good guys and the US as aggressive buffoons. Vs. Invading where they prove the US right and now look like the aggressive idiots vs the US calmly rational and correctly predicting their actions A significant portion of this thread is pushing the first narrative right now because Russian troops haven’t crossed the border even with all the movement, evacuations and explosions in the separatist republics and 180,000 troops massed on the border. How do you think those posts will look if Russia pulls the trigger, how about if Russia actually deescalates and moves their forces back to the interior? BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 15:48
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Cugel the Clever posted:What on Earth does this mean? What war is he trying to start? The US attacking Russia? Ukraine attacking Russia? Cats attacking dogs?? Biden is being pushed by a faction of the US elite that wants a new cold war. They don't care about Ukraine or even the US. They just want to keep the cash flowing.
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Feb 19, 2022 15:51
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https://twitter.com/djxtrees/status/1494742197119430660 Edit: for more context: https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1495015587873009667 (Wanted to go for the original observation, since it notes the day of switchover and it doesn't speculate as much, but it also doesn't explain the significance of the plates)
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Feb 19, 2022 15:56
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Rodiel posted:Biden is being pushed by a faction of the US elite that wants a new cold war. They don't care about Ukraine or even the US. They just want to keep the cash flowing. What do you make of what's going on in Ukraine, then? Surely things are happening that Biden had no power to set in motion himself https://twitter.com/nevedimka123/status/1494727967116873740
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Feb 19, 2022 16:02
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Rodiel posted:Biden is being pushed by a faction of the US elite that wants a new cold war. They don't care about Ukraine or even the US. They just want to keep the cash flowing. They could do this without Russia moving most of its naval assets into the Black Sea
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Feb 19, 2022 16:03
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Budzilla posted:NATO is a military alliance not an economic bloc. shorthand for EU+US coordinated combined response c'mon GaussianCopula posted:Sounds like Sender Gleiwitz. Now Putin just has to decide when he will announce that they are officially shooting back. Yeah, we'll see. I'm just an idiot goon I'll leave intl diplomacy calculus to the adults. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 16:03
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OddObserver posted:https://twitter.com/djxtrees/status/1494742197119430660 Where did they get that UAZ Patriot picture? It looks like it's from a video, but I can't find the source.
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Feb 19, 2022 16:10
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Paladinus posted:I mean, he also said NATO should stop accepting new members. Fair enough, China seems like they are staying out Rodiel posted:NATO is at its core an anti Russian alliance. I bet from the Russian perspective China looks pretty tame in comparison. No, the fear of the Chinese hordes taking over Siberia for the natural resources is more prominent and people like Europe. The mafia establishment sees an existential threat in integration with Europe since the average city dweller starts demanding civil rights and asking why is the oil money ending up in Putin's friends' pockets, so the same people screeching about the threat of NATO -politicians, propagandists, oligarch - have their families living in NATO countries
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Feb 19, 2022 16:10
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Rodiel posted:Also Putin has already won, he made the US look stupid and ineffectual vs Russias ability to provide gas to Europe The US looks stupid for Russia not invading after the threat of sanctions and retaliations. They and the rest of Europe would look better if Russia did invade after those that's were made? Would they look more or less effectual in that case?
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Feb 19, 2022 16:14
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Paladinus posted:Where did they get that UAZ Patriot picture? It looks like it's from a video, but I can't find the source. https://www.facebook.com/TVP777/pos...26785410123014/ This is the account that everyone else is reporting. I cannot find any Pustovalov accounts to confirm further, but I’m also not scouring Facebook, VK, or Telegram for it.
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Feb 19, 2022 16:19
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Rodiel posted:
Love that victory by kicking your own stock market in the balls and manufacturing a refugee situation in your own country to get senpai Biden to notice you Thats not blood in my mouth thats victory wine
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Feb 19, 2022 16:20
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^^^^ They just dumped some 100+ grannies on a street. No true "refugee situation" in that hardly anyone followed them, but they're still treating them like crap even when the resources to help would be cheap. Some of them will probably die from the conditions. Paladinus posted:Where did they get that UAZ Patriot picture? It looks like it's from a video, but I can't find the source. https://twitter.com/djxtrees/status/1495028375139794945 Edit: different thread position OddObserver fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 16:23
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Putin could trip face first into a toilet at an international conference and there’s be guys in D&D calling it a triumph of diplomacy
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Feb 19, 2022 16:24
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https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/aussenpolitik/laender/ukraine-node/ukrainesicherheit/201946 German government is recommending its citizens to leave Ukraine.
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Feb 19, 2022 16:26
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And Lufthansa is cancelling all their future flights to and from Ukraine on Monday, if Germans want to get out of the country smoothly they'd better hurry.
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Feb 19, 2022 16:30
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Flavahbeast posted:What do you make of what's going on in Ukraine, then? Surely things are happening that Biden had no power to set in motion himself No one in the west had to set anything into motion, never let a good crisis go to waste as they say. waydownLo posted:They could do this without Russia moving most of its naval assets into the Black Sea Does NATO control the Russian navy? I assume I'm misunderstanding this. Somaen posted:Fair enough, China seems like they are staying out This is just unabashed racism, I'm shocked its tolerated here. fatherboxx posted:Love that victory by kicking your own stock market in the balls and manufacturing a refugee situation in your own country to get senpai Biden to notice you So then what was Russias end game here? Rodiel fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 16:33
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