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Prop Wash posted:I'm playing Normal Nurgle and his economy seems to be pretty impaired. I'm building and upgrading where I can but it feels like my newer settlements (even with the nurgle tech buffs) are never going to balance out the armies that it takes to keep the mortals away, and my alternate defense options (big ol stack of nurglings) are becoming less and less effective. If I could sustain strong armies at my borders then I could balance it via fighting, but there's too many borders and all the mortals are at war with me. Have I missed something with regard to Nurgle buildings? Or was my mistake trying to push outwards instead of using the Nurgle tech to become BFFs with everyone and let my allies take care of the land? Most of your money is going to be from fighting. Fight more, peace less. Your infrastructure buildings bring in about 90 gold on average. Your basic military buildings will produce more money but provide no garrison. Same with advanced military. Even then you won't get much money from them. The rest of your money will be from fighting people. And you don't have to win those fights easily. Plague someone, make them suffer attrition, move back, then go at it. Auto resolve hates nurgle armies so you will have to manually battle a lot. EDIT: also unlock black plague as soon as you can, it fucks over ranged armies and will get you a lot more money from sieges. It is a very easy plague to get. Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 16:04
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Ethiser posted:No one “finishes” a Mortal Empires campaign they just play until it gets boring. Outside of using mods to change them the victory conditions are mostly nonsense. I might be a weirdo, but I've finished long victories for almost every faction in Mortal Empires. The short victories are relatively easy to get for a lot of the lords, but there are a few "short" victories that essentially require long victories, like for Karl Franz. However, that doesn't mean every game I play is going to be to conclusion. Most of them are how you say, I play till I get bored of the faction/units and play a different one.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:08
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 Name amused me  Game fun
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Feb 21, 2022 16:09
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Honestly I'd get rid of the whole race aspect of the campaign, instead just give all the factions their own 50-100 objective-based short campaign victory conditions, each of which counts as a win, unlocks something or rewards you some bonus and you can keep going if you want. Kislev is obvious as it's basically already in, just somehow relegated to a sideshow, win the political struggle, control Praag, Erengrad and Kislev for 10 and resurrect Boris Ursus (in my book that can be a good standin for saving/resurrecting Ursun rather than doing the Chaos Realms thing). I'd honestly only keep the Realms of Chaos thing for the Daemon Prince, but instead of having the rifts just pop up on a timer, require him to seek them out (and make it so a Tzeentch rift for example only leads to the Sorceror's Realm) or fulfill some requirements to create one himself. I kind of hope that's how the rifts will function in Immortal Empires as well, there's locations where you're guaranteed to find them, but toy can also do stuff to make them appear and possibly given the right circumstances they can appear in other locations as well, though not all over the world all at once. Also I feel like all of the realms should have rewards and bonuses that anyone can get if they are able to enter them, but those should be balanced by negative traits and corruption.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:11
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My impression of Ogres so far: Units- They take an interesting approach of a nearly all large monster roster, and go even further by giving them a unique little charge attack. To this end they remind me of minotaur-heavy Beastmen armies. However their size is definitely a liability. They definitely get shot up pretty badly. I would've thought a smaller group of units with proportionally higher stats would be able to concentrate their damage more effectively, but I found myself getting into scrums where I wasn't dealing nearly as much damage as I'd thought; perhaps smaller infantry is able to fit more guys into melee and the ogres' fat asses keep getting in each other's way. Ogres get two variations of most of their units- dual weapon and ironfist. Dual weapon just gives anti-infantry and ironfist is basically their version of a shield, giving a little more armor and bronze shield block. However I would have wished these got additional MA and MD respectively, as you pay a premium for just a bit more utility in either direction but other than they they are very samey. Leadbelchers are excellent though and make up for Ogre's lack of mid-tier ranged unit by having a higher tier infantry squad comparable to bow Ushtabi. Sabretusks are their generic light cavalry beast unit, though unique in that Hunter hero units can give them vanguard, stalk, and frenzy which seems like a really good force multiplier. I get the impression you're supposed to use a few of these to flank enemy ranged units that would normally annihilate your forces. Haven't tried the higher tier Maneaters or their big cannon yet so far. Meat- I feel like this mechanic is really underdeveloped. Compare to food with Skaven; food shortages gave more severe short term penalties but were much more useful. Meat is just another layer of upkeep to deal with and you can chuck ten meat for a bit of a combat bonus (nice but +10% charge and mass doesn't seem that huge of a difference) or some modest strategic map bonuses. Settlements and camps- Basically immobile Arks and the main source of their building chains. Camps have the advantage of conferring an aura in a large area and can build up a lot of structures quickly if you have the money and research/skills. Unfortunately camps seem to work best defensively, since the camp 'lord' can't heal in hostile territory. The other big perk is that at tier 4/5 I think the upkeep discount makes units stationed inside them free to maintain, so you can stash expensive units in there for a while to save money. The meat generation offsets the upkeep costs of armies, but since there's only a few useful things to do with meat it doesn't feel that great to go out of your way to build up a stockpile. Economy- In a way they have the best of both worlds. They have the raiding/sacking/looting buffs of more raiding focused races, but can trade and have decent income buildings. The contract system, like meat, feels undeveloped; often the objectives are prohibitively difficult to crack and not worth the trouble for 1000g. Had the reward been proportional to the defensive strength it would have been a lot more interesting, or something like Eshin's mechanic where you can send off lords or maybe individual units to fulfill mercenary contracts. You can also hire mercenaries though I've only gotten ogre bulls, no idea how to get other units this way. Suggestions- Ogres are pretty fun to play but a few aspects of their campaign feel a little undercooked. Given their main starting area they really ought to have some counterparts to the Caravan system (dilemmas offering to protect, extort, or raid caravans that pass through, special buildings that give you money when caravans pass that territory, etc). There also doesn't feel like enough to do with Meat, it would have been nice if it could replace upkeep for some units somehow or interact with the maw beyond just the 4 basic map buffs it offers.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:12
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I honestly had a lot more fun with the vortex than I am with the realms. Tzeentch's realm is possibly one of the dumbest mechanics I've ever seen(and it's telling that most peoples' solution is "figure out the route and then reload to 10 turns earlier in the campaign") and all of the others are basically interchangeable "slog across lovely terrain fighting infinitely spawning stacks until you get to the boss battle at the end". It's all completely divorced from what's actually going on on the campaign map in a way that is extremely bizarre, too. Nothing I do on the campaign map matters at all, in the slightest, except for my ability to provide a powerful doomstack for my LL. It's so incredibly weirdly disconnected. You could remove the entire campaign layer from the game and just make the entire game mode a "build your army out of money you earn from fighting a sequence of battles" thing and fundamentally nothing would actually change about how you approach it. Uniting Kislev and defending it from all comers is cool and thematic but there's no real reason to do it besides "it's something to do while clicking end turn". What does confederating Kostaltyn do for you? Give you another LL to sit in your border garrisons, I guess.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:15
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orangelex44 posted:Any strategy that begins "you can just save scum" is inherently bad design, IMO. Unless you're a game explicitly created with that in mind, like a tactical top-down shooter or something. I'm also pretty sure the invading armies would try to appear further away from your armies anyway. I'm pretty sure I did a test that confirmed it, after losing some BS siege, reloading and then just using unlimited move cheat to place an army there.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:17
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Doomykins posted:Any major province capital works. You don't mean your starting faction capital, right? Yeah, I usually have my leader pushing the frontier, so it's like "okay, blowout soon, where is the closest province capital that I can get a trait burner into". quote:Less a struggle and more no sign from the game that it's an option. It's really easy to play the game without heroes on the map since you're naturally guided towards how super useful they are in armies. The advisor really needs to clearly state on the first rift spawn "you only need to enter 1 portal, armies approaching a portal attract daemonic attention, a clever agent can seal the portal quietly at the cost of expensive reagents." Bam. Yeah that's a good idea and I should be less catty about it; I almost never use heroes and when I do its almost always in armies and almost never in their capacity as a map unit. So normally I'd be struggling with this as well
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Feb 21, 2022 16:24
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Panfilo posted:My impression of Ogres so far: My general strategy for monstrous infantry is tarpit spears + guns and/or crossbows behind. Monsters are taller than infantry and they get absolutely shot to poo poo by handgunners standing behind spears. You can't do this tactic vs infantry as the handgunners can't shoot over, but it works like a charm against Ogres, minotaurs, chaos spawn, whatever. Edit: It also works sometimes as dwarfs vs some types of infantry. Orc bigguns are tall enough and dwarves are short enough that the trick still works. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 16:27
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It wouldn’t work with how the chaos realms are on the map itself or with having to deal with other factions trying at the same time, but if they had made it so that turns stopped once you entered a chaos realm and it became it’s own mini campaign it would be a lot more tolerable to deal with.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:34
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The Chad Jihad posted:
This seems so obvious to me. Like, when i win the campaign I can still play on. But if the AI wins then I don't get to play. It makes the whole thing into a race that I MUST engage with and it sucks
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Feb 21, 2022 16:37
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Collapsing Farts posted:This seems so obvious to me. Like, when i win the campaign I can still play on. But if the AI wins then I don't get to play. It makes the whole thing into a race that I MUST engage with and it sucks Ironically this is why Warhammer 1's campaign was the best. The implications of the Chaos invasion were on the map. You could ignore it entirely and eventually have them knocking on your door, or you could send forces north to help deal with the problem. It was entirely up to you. The only campaign end was if you got overwhelmed or not.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:39
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Dramicus posted:I might be a weirdo, but I've finished long victories for almost every faction in Mortal Empires. The short victories are relatively easy to get for a lot of the lords, but there are a few "short" victories that essentially require long victories, like for Karl Franz. I don't remember if I've ever done a long victory but most factions can get a short ME win in under 120 turns without too much trouble (source: got all the VH achievements except dark elves & Greenskins). The evil factions have it harder because it's harder to get and keep alliances, even with other evil factions. A lot of the campaigns they did later on like Wood Elves and Beastmen can pretty easily be done in under 100.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:50
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I'm struggling with Tzeentch. The enemy just keeps running into my stuff and annihilating it. I'm mostly fighting Slaneesh so maybe they're just really good at it. My blue horrors seem to just suck at everything Can a Pro Tzeentch Player please teach me the ways
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Feb 21, 2022 16:50
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I'm a little sad about the heros closing portal things and not knowing about it so late, but whatever the tier 3 walls on every settlement aren't hurting me so bad.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:50
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As somebody who had minimal issues with Vortex once I knew it spawned a bunch of bullshit armies, I'm not jiving with any of the major changes and this campaign in its current state. However, I do think the idea behind all the changes are great but incredibly unrefined. I'm still going to try Ogres for fun once, but I think this is firmly on the shelf afterwards for 2-6 months of patches/updates/mods to hopefully get it over.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:53
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Skarbrand is definitely my speed for a campaign, I might save the other factions for Mortal Empires. The speed in which I tore through Tzeentch's realm axe-solving his puzzle-portals and butchering everyone else who looked sideways at it was pretty hilarious. One really nice thing I found was when I did one of those little locations in the realm that stopped all movement for me, I did the ritual that gave me +50% campaign movement and then followed it up by manifesting an army to punch in the throat and that let me just get moving again, made me clear through it all so much faster.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:53
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OwlFancier posted:I think I'm done with it tbh, the campaign mechanics are just too tedious and I can't for the life of me imagine starting another one to have to do any of that poo poo again. Could be made into a fun game if they take all that poo poo out but until then I think I'm just not going to bother.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:54
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Griz posted:that's 100% fixable by setting it to windowed If you set it to windowed for 1440p all the loving buttons are missalinged, like I have to click like 1/4 of an inch off the actual button wtf
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Feb 21, 2022 16:58
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The good news is that the second they open up the mod workshop (which should be in a week or two), there will almost certainly be 20 "disable rifts" mods on the first day. At which point it should be mostly fun to play on the map normally.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:59
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Captain Beans posted:If you set it to windowed for 1440p all the loving buttons are missalinged, like I have to click like 1/4 of an inch off the actual button wtf Do you have multiple monitors? I think it's related to DPI or display size settings.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:00
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Collapsing Farts posted:I'm struggling with Tzeentch. The enemy just keeps running into my stuff and annihilating it. I'm mostly fighting Slaneesh so maybe they're just really good at it. My blue horrors seem to just suck at everything Blue horrors are trash, think of them as basically skavenslaves, you want forsaken as a frontline asap with pink horrors behind, this will last you for a while. Also make liberal use of Kairos, as he is probably the best spellcaster in the game, and get all building/tech/skill upgrades that increase winds of magic, as it not only boosts your battle capabilities, but also a lot of your building outputs. The Vortex spell he learns later on is probably my favourite, as it can absolutely demolish groups of clumped enemies. Tzeentch unfortunately has a pretty lovely economy starting out, so build the building that gives you flat gold in every settlement you take to stabilize, and boost it further with the various +% gold buildings. Also, if you don't mind some cheese, the Kurgans that are repeatedly spawning and suiciding against the Cathay walls are always willing to go for a NAP with you, and will pay you for the privilege. You can do this every time they respawn, so that's an extra 800-1000 every few turns, which can really help out early on. Later on, when you have control over more than one province, you can use the winds of magic manipulation tab to increase winds in areas where you have most of your economy going, just remember that you have that option. Other than that, try not to autoresolve too much, as Tzeentch has absolutely abysmal replenishment, probably to make up for the barrier mechanic. It can also be worth to rush the Forsaken replenishment on the right side of the tree, as well as the bonus late on Kairos' own blue tree, as I think those two are the only sources of bonus replenishment the entire Tzeentch faction has.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:01
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I think there's a lot of neat content and cool thematic stuff in this game. Echoing what's already been said about the rifts being annoying. I did like the temptations offered in the Slaanesh realm. That's very on-brand and gave me pause each time I was offered stuff. Overall, the rifts seem expressly designed to be a time sink. I have to come to a complete stop every time my army goes through a portal? gently caress that. And other people already mentioned the disconnect between what's going on in the rifts vs. what's happening in the campaign. It makes all the struggles to secure Kislev's motherland seem inconsequential. I'm looking forward to IE. This game looks to have a lot of potential, and DLC + mods will certainly help. Nurgle plagues are no joke. My doomstacks can generally handle the debuffs, but the attrition is brutal. How do people counter plagues? I see the night patrol house. Does that affect armies in the province? As Kislev, I grabbed the devotional creed research too. Also, someone mentioned frost maidens reducing cavalry upkeep. Is that through the ice court? I found one with reductions to war sled upkeep when I confederated.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:08
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I feel like people wouldn't be so sore about settlement battles if the auto-resolve wasn't so drastically overtuned to force people to play out each fight. Even open field fights and rifts are way overtuned to wiping out most of your army on a auto resolve, I think it'll be one of the first things people mod out is the VH difficulty auto resolve.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:08
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Reik posted:Do you have multiple monitors? I think it's related to DPI or display size settings. Apparently if you just set to windowed mode, it gives you that crazy missalinged buttons, close game, restart, now its fixed. ok then
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Feb 21, 2022 17:11
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The key to Nurgle is to beeline for the Green Pox, infect all your settlements with insane growth, and then profit. The quickest way to unlock it is to farm open field battles for infections, chase down every last gnoblar. Ogre camps are “field” battles so let that initial faction set them up for you to knock over.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:13
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Does a “Brutal Business” (+20 to base weapon strength to all armies everywhere)drop right as you’re about to go after the skaven as Skrag or is that my own personal hell?
Twigand Berries fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 17:21
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Oops. I'm a doomsayer now, Realms of Chaos is trash, where's the new Empires? Just had a game ending bug. No joke. So Rifts spawn and I head to Slaanesh for my 3rd soul. I'm first in, guaranteed win for me, gg no re to the AI. 2 steps from the goal I get the bad news: somebody else has 4 souls and is going to the Forge of Souls. Whatever, I'll be out in 2 turns. The advisor "helpfully" spawns a new set of rifts and two end game soul grinder doomstacks get out almost immediately. Sigh, but whatever, I've spent 20 turns building up 120k in gold and I'm out of buildings to improve. And I can't expand, literally, because whenever I do Tzeentch gives one of the neutral/ruins settlements I take to a Str 1-5 faction adjacent to me. At least he's not halt spamming me but they sure didn't think Tzeentch Campaign AI through. So Meow gets out, I head for a rift, of course the rift she returns through despawns so add +2 travel turns to reach a new rift. I'm gonna be 4 turns behind, I can't even see the Forge(and thus gauge how close the enemy is to automatically winning when they touch the Win Spot), I sure hope the devs thought to port me to the win spot to contest is. And I touch the loving rift. I raise the menu. TRAVERSE THE FORGE OF SOULS. ENTER RIFT Menu lowers. Meow doesn't move. Oh, that's odd. I have movement to spare so I move off and move on, try again. Nope. End turn, do it 4 times. Nope. Reload old saves, try again. Nope. Really? A game ending bug? All I can do is wait for CAMPAIGN LOST to pop up at random? gently caress off. I try to appreciate a robust challenge and all, I can see a lot of the good the devs tried to do, but this is how my first campaign ends? This is trash. Give me IE. Look, at least I had a lot of fun learning the new stuff and Cathay and playing as Meow was a blast. I can't wait to do it again in a good game mode. I can't believe Vortex has better and more reliable mechanics than Realms. At least in Vortex you could ignore the mechanic and you got a huge safety net to go spank the AI. You guys were arguing 1-2 pages ago that "a mechanic is bad if the given advice is to ignore it" but yeah, give me control and functionality over The Dev's Unrelenting Vision any day. If I need more challenge I can open palm smash Legendary/VH at campaign select. I want tough but fair so I did VH/N. I took everything on the chin and kept an open mind about the rough spots and the light bugs and it ends with a "push the release date back another 2 months" major bug. I went back to an old save before I entered Slaanesh's Domain and labeled it WAITFORFORGEOFSOULS. Maybe I'll go back to it in a bit, or a few days, or whatever, and see if the prompt isn't buggy from that save. Maybe it'll get patched soon. Maybe it won't be reproduceable and it'll fix the next time I try. But uggggggggggggh. Considering this could happen to anyone late game I'm actually half-tempted to wait entirely for IE and/or mods, it makes it pretty rough to want to try another faction out and to know falling behind once could be death. Seriously, this is a disgusting major bug. At least the campaign was fun until that. I guess it's a win in my heart. 
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Feb 21, 2022 17:21
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its a shame that outposts don't give you access to other faction's heroes. i want a patriarch of kesliv in every army, their is one variant of their voice acting that is absolutely incredible and makes me laugh out loud every time
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Feb 21, 2022 17:25
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I only got 9 hours into this game and it feels like it was made by someone who doesn't like Total War games. Feels like the team that made RTW2 made this -- and RTW2 is bad. Bloated mechanics. Cramped map. Deeply unsatisfying campaign. Confusing art direction trying to mash every least-used color into the same game. And the worst offender of them all: starting you off with a half-stack. In the campaign. Who the heck thought this was a good idea? The most fun you can have in this game is small 5v5 unit battles. I shouldn't see stack armies until turn 30. I don't know. I miss WH2. As soon as the capture points were released I knew this game was going to get everything wrong. GolfHole fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 17:33
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I mean how
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Feb 21, 2022 17:34
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It bugged me more to not know if an older save would fix it then to try it and realize my campaign is well and truly hosed. By good fortune I'm not on legendary so I went back to before entering Slaanesh's domain and sat on my hands for ten turns, giving up my 3rd soul to see if the bug would be reproduced. And it wasn't. I waited for the 4th soul to be claimed, the new wave of rifts to open and tried going to the Forge. It worked and now I can set up a cheesy camping army, I guess. So PSA: if you need to contest the souls(i.e. you're behind in the race and somebody is about to get their 4th) you have to sit out a rifts cycle. I assume my problem is that I was inside a realm and had my 1 permitted rift that roar and the game bugged and didn't allow me to go to "two", the second being the Forge. I guess finishing this campaign is back on the menu but god drat that is a serious QA gently caress up. Nobody ever had their LL inside a realm and an enemy faction got their 4th soul? It never came up? Come on. Ah well. Game rough. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 17:54
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Doomykins posted:It bugged me more to not know if an older save would fix it then to try it and realize my campaign is well and truly hosed. By good fortune I'm not on legendary so I went back to before entering Slaanesh's domain and sat on my hands for ten turns, giving up my 3rd soul to see if the bug would be reproduced. And it wasn't. I waited for the 4th soul to be claimed, the new wave of rifts to open and tried going to the Forge. It worked and now I can set up a cheesy camping army, I guess. Yeah there are some definite bugs. Like it seems the 50% to remove the bad trait on a main settlement does not function if the settlement is currently being upgraded. I also just had contracts bug out on Skrag where the right most contract would give me the middle one instead.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:00
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Frog Act posted:All this objective poo poo is just such a departure from the fundamentals of the TW series. I just want to play Medieval 2 or Shogun 2 but with cool fantasy units, all the other stuff annoys the hell out of me Yep, this exactly
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Feb 21, 2022 18:02
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dogstile posted:I'm a little sad about the heros closing portal things and not knowing about it so late, but whatever the tier 3 walls on every settlement aren't hurting me so bad. What's this you're talking about, heroes closing portals? Edit: Open field battles are far too rare in this version. Sieges are different (vs other TW games) but reserve them for the capital cities, it's just too much. I also hope they cut out 2/3rds of the no-name rebel factions from I.E. - I wanna fight cool factions, not another version of myself for 50 turns. Still way better than most TW releases. 1st_Panzer_Div. fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 18:19
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My thoughts on what happens when the hero reaches the portal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfXRrYWmQ_g
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Feb 21, 2022 18:24
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GolfHole posted:I only got 9 hours into this game and it feels like it was made by someone who doesn't like Total War games. is this you or a copypasta
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Feb 21, 2022 18:25
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:Open field battles are far too rare in this version. Sieges are different (vs other TW games) but reserve them for the capital cities, it's just too much. I hope there's a mod that makes minor settlements into field battles again. I'd personally want the minor settlement maps to replace the capital maps because I actually like most of the minor settlements but the thing I want most is to have more field battles and fewer sieges. Edit: Minor settlements -> Field battles Capitals level 1-3 -> Minor settlement battles Capitals level 4-5 -> Walled settlement battles That would be ideal. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 18:28
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Twigand Berries posted:Does a “Brutal Business” (+20 to base weapon strength to all armies everywhere)drop right as you’re about to go after the skaven as Skrag or is that my own personal hell? The real hell is looking at skaven as any faction that relies heavily on melee and not just muttering "gently caress it" while clicking on auto resolve.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:30
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dogstile posted:The real hell is looking at skaven as any faction that relies heavily on melee and not just muttering "gently caress it" while clicking on auto resolve. I'm actively looking for them on my Nurgle campaign so I can do toad vs rat and hopefully run down enough of them because oh man rats know how to carry a disease mmm hmmm
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Feb 21, 2022 18:34
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