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If I felt fully justified in my decision to create a 5E hack of the IP I own, I wouldn't post a whole thread whining about people not liking it.  Seriously, it's usually the same people complaining about it, you can block them and move on with your life. 5E is full of sore winners.
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Feb 20, 2022 23:45
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See I actually like trying to make the D&D frame work in contexts outside the original Dungeon Fantasy one it was made for but there's limits to that and trying to make Doctor Who of all things work in that frame is just a fool's errand
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Feb 21, 2022 01:05
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Feb 21, 2022 02:37
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It's funny to me that the thread the designer posted in response to people saying 5e is a poo poo system for Dr Who doesn't even try to claim that 5e is a good or even a decent system for the IP. He doesn't even try to claim it's a good game! The closest he gets is saying they had fun making quips while playing it. It seems to me like he can't even bring himself to disagree with the takes. All he can say is that they make him feel bad.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:12
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If there are flavours of Mountain Dew you don't like you can just keep it to yourself, okay? The CEO of PepsiCo has been cyberbullied enough.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:19
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Napoleon Nelson posted:It's so pretty. I've had several physical books come in over the past couple weeks, but I still keep going back to the Wildsea pdf. That's a really good looking game, but I've got Hardwired Island and Orbital Blues in hardcopy now, and those are giving it some competition. And goddamn but HWI is a weighty tome. Dead sexy though.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:26
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Halloween Jack posted:When I was young, hating stuff was always cooler than liking it. That was stupid, and I grew weary of it. But now I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. I think it's time to OMG Just Let People Dislike Things. Can you just let me loving like the Super Mario Bros movie?! The absolute nerve of you.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:58
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I really don’t know how anything short of full collaborative storytelling could really do Doctor Who (thinking about it you could probably stick a Dalek on the cover of Ariadne and Bob and call it a day). A lot of huff is talked about the activity based initiative system in the Vortex game but that doesn’t resolve the situational nature of the Doctor’s actions and the huge Trinity program, where what sounds to the audience like an interesting creative plan the Doctor came up with is actually just rote for the Doctor who has known all this stuff for hundreds of years.
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Feb 21, 2022 07:01
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disliking bad things is good, disliking Super Mario Brothers: The Movie is bad. it is a work of artistic genius, and the standard to which all video game adaptations should aspire. hope that clears things up
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Feb 21, 2022 07:53
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Snails was the best part of the D&D movie, some of you have no taste.
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Feb 21, 2022 14:53
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LongDarkNight posted:Snails was the best part of the D&D movie, some of you have no taste. It's definitely Jeremy Irons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV3roWM0DSs
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Feb 21, 2022 14:59
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Andrast posted:It's definitely Jeremy Irons He went beast mode on that movie, really gotta hand it down to him
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Feb 21, 2022 15:15
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hyphz posted:I really don’t know how anything short of full collaborative storytelling could really do Doctor Who (thinking about it you could probably stick a Dalek on the cover of Ariadne and Bob and call it a day). Yeah, a Doctor Who rpg does sort of ask the obvious question: Can I play AS the Doctor? If yes, what does everyone else do, be a sidekick? If no, then how exactly is it a Doctor Who game beyond reskinning goblins as Daleks and dungeon crawling through Gallifrey or whatever? It's like a Sherlock Holmes rpg, the entire universe revolves around one improbably hypercompetent guy, you can't make that work as a genuinely collaborative game without going Everybody Is John with it
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Feb 21, 2022 15:35
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Asterite34 posted:Yeah, a Doctor Who rpg does sort of ask the obvious question: When I tried the first edition of the existing non-5e game, there was a large section for both players and GMs talking about just this and going through the various ways to handle it: one player is the Doctor, who's playing the Doctor rotates, everyone is companions, something else and guiding the group through choosing what they'd like collectively. That's partially what's frustrating is the existing game already solved or dealt with all of the problems you'd think of for a Doctor Who RPG well already and it's all just gonna get thrown in the toilet for 5e shovelware rules instead. For example, you've probably heard about the great initiative rules, no way that's going into 5e.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:47
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make a disco elysium system, and then hack that system to play doctor who, imho
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Feb 21, 2022 16:05
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Adaptations of properties that focus on a single super-competent main character (Conan, James Bond, Indiana Jones, etc.) run into this problem all the time. The best solution I've seen is from the Buffy game, where the main character gets lots of powers but very few of the metaplot currency tokens that let them turn failures into successes or compel the GM to give them a break, while the less-powerful sidekick characters get those in abundance.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:09
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Asterite34 posted:It's like a Sherlock Holmes rpg, the entire universe revolves around one improbably hypercompetent guy, you can't make that work as a genuinely collaborative game without going Everybody Is John with it I literally just wrote a game for exactly that. I would write a Dr Who playset for it if I knew anything about the show.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:24
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Arivia posted:one player is the Doctor, who's playing the Doctor rotates
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Feb 21, 2022 17:13
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Hey this segues neatly into something I was talking about in the podcast thread--what are some games where each PC controls a team of characters? The examples that immediately come to mind are hirelings in D&D, Ars Magica, and Albedo. Thinking about how to implement this in a game with a lot of investigation--like, my primary PC doesn't have science skills, but I can take this evidence back to the lab.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:34
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mllaneza posted:That's a really good looking game, but I've got Hardwired Island and Orbital Blues in hardcopy now, and those are giving it some competition. And goddamn but HWI is a weighty tome. Dead sexy though. I've only flipped through Orbital Blues so far and I think it looks great, but I'm a little worried it'll be too graphically busy for easy reference.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:36
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Halloween Jack posted:Hey this segues neatly into something I was talking about in the podcast thread--what are some games where each PC controls a team of characters? The examples that immediately come to mind are hirelings in D&D, Ars Magica, and Albedo. Legacy has a system where you have a bunch of secondary characters, which are supposed to be picked up by anyone whose main character isn't around right now but in my experience become 'owned' by whoever created them. Similarly, Spectaculars expects players to have multiple characters but spread across different 'threads' of plot rather than what you're going for, I think. I think the Star Trek RPG might do what you're looking for? I've not read or played it though.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Hey this segues neatly into something I was talking about in the podcast thread--what are some games where each PC controls a team of characters? The examples that immediately come to mind are hirelings in D&D, Ars Magica, and Albedo.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:30
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Asterite34 posted:Yeah, a Doctor Who rpg does sort of ask the obvious question: The old Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG tackled this waaaaay back in the day and it was apparently pretty effective! I never played it, but my impression is that the person playing the Slayer was mechanically way better at doing the actual monster-fighting, while the other players had meta-currency that gave them a great deal of control over the narrative and allowed them to be mechanically effective as "Scoobies."
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Feb 21, 2022 19:39
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Lemniscate Blue posted:This is not the original soundtrack and editing of the scene in question, but maybe it should have been. This...this is Art. Now get me a full movie like this and we're in freaky french Art Cinema business! Leraika posted:make a disco elysium system, and then hack that system to play doctor who, imho Coming soo, near you: Disco Elysium....made in 5E. (not really, but what a terrific horrible idea it would be) 
Mr.Misfit fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 19:45
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Not so much the “one competent character” thing, but the fact that most of the Doctor’s problem solving is based on access to a huge implied body of knowledge which is not available to a player, so it can’t be played as problem solving at the table.
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Feb 21, 2022 20:19
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Gumshoe would probably work well.
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Feb 21, 2022 20:32
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potatocubed posted:Legacy has a system where you have a bunch of secondary characters, which are supposed to be picked up by anyone whose main character isn't around right now but in my experience become 'owned' by whoever created them. I am quite fond of all three of these systems, and I am beginning to realize I have a type.
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Feb 21, 2022 20:36
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I've been toying on and off with fiction-first game based around mysteries that might be conceptually adaptable to the Doctor. The idea is that the game is actually the parlor scene a la Poirot or whatever, with the GM as the detective and the players are witnesses or staff or whatever. The draft would be that they're all archetypical roles like The Debutante or the Servant with a Mysterious Past that'd have fictional moves that generate evidence through flashbacks that the GM/detective is then using to "solve" the case, but more as a mediator. My biggest problem is dividing up the playbooks in terms of fictional space in ways that are flavorful in specifics but still general enough to be reskinned. Especially cause I'm mildly painting myself into a corner by wanting to emulate an older genre and time period that I both want to recreate as thoroughly as possible but without requiring people to touch gross things with... I started listing things but I think we all know some of the topics that are gonna be touchy in late Victorian/early Edwardian anything and are on the same page that it's hard. Dr Who might actually be a much better test case since not everyone is as into Gosford Park as I am, but just lol to the lolth power at me trying to touch anything with a rights dispute for a silly little side project.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:28
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Halloween Jack posted:Hey this segues neatly into something I was talking about in the podcast thread--what are some games where each PC controls a team of characters? The examples that immediately come to mind are hirelings in D&D, Ars Magica, and Albedo. A long time ago, I ran a Battlestar Galactica game using Solar System, and since I knew the PCs would probably not form an organic party, we did chargen in stages. Everyone made a primary character, then thought of two more characters who would likely be around that character a lot. The President got a chief of staff and a bodyguard, the hotshot pilot got a best friend and a landing signals officer she hated but couldn't avoid, etc. Then everyone introduced their secondary characters, and we passed them around to try to balance out everyone's exposure to different aspects of the fictional universe (bridge, fighter squadrons, politics, religion being the major ones). It seemed to work pretty well. I only made any effort to plot for the original primary characters, but the secondary characters ensured that people got a lot of playtime. There were a couple cases were surprise intersections of the different milieus forced people to play multiple characters in the same scene, but we got through them OK.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:00
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Michael Caine on Jaws: The Revenge: "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific!" I've heard some films called the "it's a living" phase of his career. The way I like to put it is that when a pop news site says "[celebrity] interested in playing [role]" it always means "when asked if he'd like some money if offered, [celebrity] said he would."
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Feb 21, 2022 23:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Hey this segues neatly into something I was talking about in the podcast thread--what are some games where each PC controls a team of characters? The examples that immediately come to mind are hirelings in D&D, Ars Magica, and Albedo. There's a limit on how many side-characters you can have running around in an episode, but once a character has been brought in they're assumed to be around and available until the end of the episode. So once the medical emergency is dealt with and everyone is back on board, Nurse Chapel is still "In play" and can not only be controlled by Alice, Bob, or Carl in situations where there other characters are busy, but also provide assists in any situation where she would be considered relevant.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:11
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Kestral posted:The old Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG tackled this waaaaay back in the day and it was apparently pretty effective! I never played it, but my impression is that the person playing the Slayer was mechanically way better at doing the actual monster-fighting, while the other players had meta-currency that gave them a great deal of control over the narrative and allowed them to be mechanically effective as "Scoobies." The standard pattern of a Doctor Who episode is basically: 1. The threat shows up and makes a show of force that seemingly stymies the Doctor 2. The Doctor and their companions gather knowledge about the threat by making emotional connections with the people affected by it. 3. The Doctor overcomes the threat using the knowledge they've gained about it. So it feels like you could do something where the second act has the players making skill rolls to obtain clues, and then the third act is kind of like the final roll of Fiasco: the Doctor's player makes a solution up working in as many of those clues as they can. The more clues they can work into their explanation of what the baddy's up to the better their roll, and how well they roll affects how comprehensively the threat is defeated and what fallout there is for the Doctor and their companions.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:18
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Bruceski posted:I've heard some films called the "it's a living" phase of his career. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd1eNS9HtXo
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Feb 21, 2022 23:25
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Whybird posted:The standard pattern of a Doctor Who episode is basically: This strikes me as something that would work well with a clock/track-based system - one tracking Facts (info about the threat, weaknesses, backstory, etc) and Connections (links with the "locals", available resources etc). The Doctor might be significantly better at gathering one than the other, giving companions a way to mechanically contribute by trying to fill the other track.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:28
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Whybird posted:The standard pattern of a Doctor Who episode is basically: If you throw in relationship drama, this is the same pattern as a Buffy episode, too. Your use of the word "fallout" is also now making me wonder what Dogs in the Vineyard hack for Doctor Who would look like, speaking of hilarious mismatches.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:33
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looks like the pre-art final draft of the Avatar RPG pdfs are going out this week, has anyone been following it and have any thoughts? i just backed the basic tier and promptly shelved it until it was complete, which it seems to be now (barring art/some formatting).
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Feb 22, 2022 00:52
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Michael Caine on Jaws: The Revenge: "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific!"
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Feb 22, 2022 02:57
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I don't think it's that weird to start from a very "this is the main character" property and develop an RPG from there. MOTW is based very obviously on Buffy, and DnD if you look back far enough has a lot of Conan The Barbarian in its DNA. BITD is an exceptionally team based game and it's based on Dishonored and Thief, which are very much games about how Corvo and Garret are very much the singular hero. In the case of MOTW, it's based very much on AW and AW as a system just does not need the PCs to be on any sort of level playing field, DnD simply iterated out in enough directions it doesn't matter, and BITD spliced in a heavy helping of Leverage. DnD+Doctor Who feels so mismatched not because the basic idea of a Doctor Who TTRPG is so bad (as mentioned Ariadne & Bob fits like a glove), but that DnD privileges "murder" over other verbs and it's not a very present verb in Doctor Who, and that Doctor Who is frankly kind of thin outside of its specific plots (and the specific dominance of the one guy). Conan stories are very much about Conan but also the world itself is imaginative enough that you want to imagine the stories that happen outside of Conan. Same with Dishonored and even Buffy. But my encounters with the Doctor Who fandom have focused on the Doctor, that's the element that seems to really ignite the imagination. Anyway now I'm thinking about doing some sort of hack tie-in like that but just not using DnD rules.
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Feb 22, 2022 03:35
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FMguru posted:Adaptations of properties that focus on a single super-competent main character (Conan, James Bond, Indiana Jones, etc.) run into this problem all the time. The best solution I've seen is from the Buffy game, where the main character gets lots of powers but very few of the metaplot currency tokens that let them turn failures into successes or compel the GM to give them a break, while the less-powerful sidekick characters get those in abundance. I think you can make those sort of properties work in an rpg, but not if it's heavily focused on the branding. Things like Sherlock Holmes, Conan, James Bond and Indiana Jones are all representative of very distinct genres with their own spectacle and story expectations, and you can definitely make RPGs that support those genres but it requires you to shift focus away from the main character so it's a team of genre-appropriate characters moving the plot forward rather than a single, iconic main character. So you could make an Indiana Jones rpg, but the resulting stories would be something akin to the Uncharted games with a group of Indiana Jones-like adventurers teaming up for pulp-style adventures, but it wouldn't be good to re-enact the plot of the Indiana Jones movies because those are way more single-character focused. Doctor Who is a trickier property to adapt, given my limited experience with the series, because it has a much more variable setting with The Doctor being sort of the single fulcrum around which everything is hung. Like, it has its own worldbuilding, but because of the broad scope and time travel elements it doesn't really have a singular, fixed setting in which to set adventures like with the other examples...
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Feb 22, 2022 05:41
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There were also multiple big deal events where other timelords make appearances, some companions are actually just as big of plot devices, and heck different iterations of the doctor have even timed up with themself. So you could still do an rpg where everyone is literally the doctor, or no one is. Of course as has been brought up D&D just doesn't mesh with what is essentially a monster of the week show. Doctor who wasn't really an IP where characters progress in power, and combat/violence is pretty antithetical to the core characters though. I guess you could try to get abstract and reframe combat as a subsystem for debate, empathy, outwitting foes, but it's just a bad system fit.
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Feb 22, 2022 07:22
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