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tsob posted:"So we're just supposed to let it wander through our territory unmolested? I though we were winning this war? That we had the superior equipment, and pilots?" How would the troops know? For the most part, only the guys who actually saw it with their eyes would know that the White Base was in the area. And if they were like, "Hey was that the White Base?" their superiors could simply say "no, that was something else". And if the troops did know it was the White Base, they would probably be more like, "thank god I don't have to go fight the White Base. And in this hypothetical situation where the White Base hadn't slaughtered a bunch of ace pilots because Zeon hadn't thrown all their best pilots at it, the Zeon troops who did see it wouldn't even know it was the White Base. They would be like, "Hey I saw this weird ship, it doesn't fit the pattern of any known Federation ship" and their superiors would simply say "Good job, I'll forward this information to HQ" and that would be the end of it.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:29
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It is really hard to overstate the extent to which the average soldier doesn't have total battlefield awareness. Most of the time, troops don't know what's going on.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:29
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tsob posted:"So we're just supposed to let it wander through our territory unmolested? I though we were winning this war? That we had the superior equipment, and pilots?" "There's something fucky going on with this ship, and until we figure out what that is, throwing men and materials into its path on a hope and a prayer is a waste of valuable resources. We're going to watch what it does and where it goes, and act accordingly." That's it. Assuming Zeon had a competent spy agency, they should have also been hearing a similar sentiment from their spies: the Federation was content to let the White Base keep wandering around as a distraction, and made it explicit after Jaburo with the whole 13th Autonomous Corps bit. All of those one-off mobile armors would have been better spent in mass-production against conventional forces.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:33
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Gripweed posted:It is really hard to overstate the extent to which the average soldier doesn't have total battlefield awareness. Most of the time, troops don't know what's going on. Presumably the officers are also disciplined enough to go, "Ok yep, I understand your orders and will follow them." This being Zeon, I know we can't count on that, but my "don't fight White Base" idea is a pure hypothetical anyway.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:35
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Warmachine posted:"There's something fucky going on with this ship, and until we figure out what that is, throwing men and materials into its path on a hope and a prayer is a waste of valuable resources. We're going to watch what it does and where it goes, and act accordingly." They wouldn't even have to say that! If some random Zeon trooper asks his boss why they aren't attacking that weird ship, the officer can simply respond "Shut the gently caress up, you're on guard duty tonight. gently caress you" and that's the end of that.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:36
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chiasaur11 posted:If it was only Ramba, then Time Be Still wouldn't exist. There was a general issue bounty on Amuro's head. The guys in "Time, Be Still" don't appear to know anything about a bounty or reward though, and when one of them mentions attacking the Gundam the only thing he says is that if they do defeat it, their direct superior, who has no interest in going after the White Base himself, says that they can go home. So if anyone in the group is getting any kind of reward in the form of promotion, it would appear to be their superior; taking the reward, while pawning off his subordinates with something he views as less valuable. Which they don't even appear to be cognizant of themselves, if that is the case. Gripweed posted:How would the troops know? Who says it has to be troops? It can be officers questioning that direct order to not interfere with a specific Federation ship just as easily as troops. poo poo, it could be Gihren himself questioning it, if you extend it far enough, because while he'd be the one giving the order, ultimately, he still has to answer that question at some point as to why it's being issued. And, I'll ask again, what difference would it make? Almost everyone who went after the White Base and/or the Gundam went after it for personal reasons, and not because of any military directive. Char himself specifically disobeys orders to go after the White Base later in the show. The only one who did it on orders really is Ramba Ral, and maybe Lalah (though Char seems to have been ordering it, and not Kycilia or anyone further up than Char as part of some specific plan) and even Ramba was ultimately doing it purely so the Zabis could feel some measure of revenge had been meted out, rather than for any actual tactical or strategic reasons. So it's likely almost everyone would still go after it anyway, regardless of any order otherwise. I'd also question what good it would actually accomplish. Amuro probably wouldn't become as skilled and lethal; but then, neither would Char. Zeon probably wouldn't pursue new mobile suits as hard either, since Zeon pushed new mobile armors and new mobile suits specifically as a response to the Gundam, because it had proven to be such an advancement over the Zaku II. If the Gundam barely sees action until late in the war, and is only one more suit in the crowd when it does, then Zeon would presumably be slower to roll out new suits themselves, since they no longer have to try and keep up with the Federation. It's likely Lalah wouldn't be pulled into the war either, since Char no longer has any major beef with Amuro; depriving Zeon of one of, if not their actual, most effective ace as well as most likely a lot of their actual advanced mobile forces. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 23:40
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Omnicrom posted:I assume this is where I bring up the G-Lucifer and litigate whether it's a Gundam or not (it is). I feel like the more pressing question in that case concerns the G-Rach.
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Feb 22, 2022 02:48
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:white base was exactly important enough to warrant attacking it with small units every episode. no more, no less. One of the first major fights movie-wise for White Base was utterly destroying Garma's fleet. And then you hear Ramba Ral and the Tri-Stars dead and yeah, people are staying away from that amount of propaganda, especially since you can't exactly locate the thing and mobilize a whole fleet before white base just flies off.
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Feb 22, 2022 04:16
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No matter what, we can all agree that this is the best Mobile Suit
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Feb 22, 2022 04:43
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The Jahannam is a good Zaku
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Feb 22, 2022 06:01
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Gripweed posted:No matter what, we can all agree that this is the best Mobile Suit HI mobility in that it doesn't need a scooter, or what?
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Feb 22, 2022 09:25
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Arc Hammer posted:The Jahannam is a good Zaku It is indeed, but the Hecate is an even better Dom.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:57
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Darth Walrus posted:It is indeed, but the Hecate is an even better Dom. Not my first time saying it, I really want a kit of that.
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Feb 22, 2022 14:35
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chiasaur11 posted:(Ein Dalton, meanwhile, is a Gundam.) no, he was just grazed
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Feb 22, 2022 15:41
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grassy gnoll posted:no, he was just grazed Gnk
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Feb 22, 2022 17:25
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grassy gnoll posted:no, he was just grazed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9434BoGkNQ
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Feb 22, 2022 17:41
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grassy gnoll posted:no, he was just grazed Bold of you to try and steal McGillis' crown for crimes against humanity.
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Feb 22, 2022 18:23
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grassy gnoll posted:no, he was just grazed i'm dead
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Feb 23, 2022 02:14
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Midjack posted:i'm dead so is Ein
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Feb 23, 2022 02:18
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Everyone in early ZZ Gundam is too dumb to die, Haman included. This is my conclusion about ZZ up until Puru and Leina meet up with Judau on Axis. Like Beecha should have been dead at least once by now. Tulalip Tulips fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 05:40
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Everyone in early ZZ Gundam is too dumb to die, Haman included. This is my conclusion about ZZ up until Puru and Leina meet up with Judau on Axis. Beecha and Mondo deserved to be executed by the end of the series.
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Feb 23, 2022 06:22
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I finally got around to finishing ZZ. I started my Gundam series watch-through in like December but took a break. Anyway here are my ZZ thoughts, spoiler tagged in case anyone is concerned about it Beecha is a massive tool and doesn't get the redemption arc that Kai does. I have no idea why people were letting him play around as captain, he's awful at it. Elle deserves better. Mondo at least becomes a team player. You could probably trim down the series by half and I wouldn't have noticed because so much of it feels like filler. The moon-moon stuff is filler but I kind of like it. Glemmy is also a massive tool and Beecha should have defected to Glemmy, they are both poo poo-heads that seem like they would get along. Chara Soon rules. Elpeo Ple is a really awful romanization of that poor girl's name. If there is a God in the UC universe then they must really hate everything to do with her. Anyway ZZ wasn't too bad, probably not as good as Z but not as bad as I had heard. I guess next I'll finally watch Char's Counterattack!
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Feb 23, 2022 07:09
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Chars Counterattack Is The Most Important Film Ever Made.
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Feb 23, 2022 07:14
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Which one was the the good (post-GBF) Build show, Re:Dive?
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Feb 23, 2022 09:37
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Build Divers Re colon Rise, methinks. Edit: The colon is important because it helps vent the lovely parts. Mostly. Lock Knight fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 09:45
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Azran posted:Which one was the the good (post-GBF) Build show, Re:Dive? Re:Rise is the good one, yes.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:28
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Azran posted:Which one was the the good (post-GBF) Build show, Re:Dive? Re Rise was secretly one of the best Gundam shows.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:07
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Gripweed posted:Re Rise was secretly one of the best Gundam shows. Let's not go nuts here. It was a solid, fun adventure show, but it was no once-in-a-generation confluence of artistic talent like Turn A.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:41
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Darth Walrus posted:Let's not go nuts here. It was a solid, fun adventure show, but it was no once-in-a-generation confluence of artistic talent like Turn A. That still secures Re:Rise a top-5 billing.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:42
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The one flaw with Re Rise is that it helps to have seen Build Divers beforehand so you can understand the full extent of what Re Rise is doing. And Build Divers is a complete chore to get through.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:59
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Gripweed posted:The one flaw with Re Rise is that it helps to have seen Build Divers beforehand so you can understand the full extent of what Re Rise is doing. And Build Divers is a complete chore to get through. I watched Re:Rise having fallen off Build Divers about halfway through and had no issues keeping up.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:19
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I watched Re:Rise knowing nothing of Build Divers other than what got posted in this thread.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:32
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ReRise is way too slow and as much as you can praise its overall writing over Divers, that show blows it out of the water in terms of action the bar is being set way too low if it's costing into top 5 imo
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Feb 23, 2022 17:14
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Warmachine posted:That still secures Re:Rise a top-5 billing. What's your top 5 then
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Feb 23, 2022 17:21
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It all depends on how many children die in the show.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:39
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Gripweed posted:The one flaw with Re Rise is that it helps to have seen Build Divers beforehand so you can understand the full extent of what Re Rise is doing. And Build Divers is a complete chore to get through. I don't think you need anything of Build Divers to understand the show, because it explains everything relevant to the audience if you haven't seen it. Which is par for the course with Gundam sequels, frankly. Like, I wouldn't ever recommend it, but I do think someone could watch Char's Counterattack as their entry into UC, without ever seeing Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta Gundam or ZZ Gundam and enjoy or understand it about as much as someone who had seen one or all of those. They'd miss some references, and that's probably it; because the film explains everything relevant as if the viewer has never seen any of those preceding shows anyway. The direct elements of Build Divers present in Re:Rise are probably the worst parts of it too, by which I'm specifically thinking of the flashback episode detailing Hiroto's past, because while I saw a good few people praising Eve in comparison to Sarah, I found her exceptionally dull personally and would say the two are basically roughly equal in being boring love interests who mostly exist to prop up the main character, and with nothing interesting about them as characters in and of themselves. It's more forgivable in Eve's case, because that's at least literally the point, but it still makes for a really dull flashback, when she's basically just there as a smiling caricature beside the main character, and never actually doing anything of note. I would also be of the opinion that Re:Rise is a show that's less than the sum of it's parts. I really enjoyed it week to week, think the cast were fun, if superficial for the most part, liked that Hiroto's story was about overcoming depression, liked a lot of the mechanical design etc, but I also don't feel any desire to ever go back and re-watch any of it. I think it's at least partly because I found the ending kind of weak, and that once they confronted Alus that everything just kind of came together too neatly. He teleports across space, and is instantly confronted by a fleet of units waiting for him. The finale just never felt all that tense. It never felt like the show wanted to explore "actually, they're aliens; not data" all that much after the cast realizes it too. It mostly seemed to exist as a thing so that it'd be more shocking when Alus colony lasers a city. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 18:15
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Something Re:Rise does really well is that it alternates between a character development episode and an action-filled episode. This way, the people behind the show were able to save their budget and better plan out the choreography for the action scenes. They also captured the feeling of team battles in a way that both Try and Divers completely failed to do. They start out as random pubbies who got haphazardly thrown into a team and then grow into a well-oiled machine by the end. They also have roles to do in their missions, sometimes by providing a distraction or sometimes by holding the line, as well as covering for each other's weaknesses.
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Feb 23, 2022 18:52
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I could never evaluate Re:Rise objectively because I found it right when I needed to hear it’s message, but everyone I showed it to liked it, so I’m going to say it has a fairly high tier.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:09
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Hunter Noventa posted:I watched Re:Rise having fallen off Build Divers about halfway through and had no issues keeping up. Warmachine posted:I watched Re:Rise knowing nothing of Build Divers other than what got posted in this thread. tsob posted:I don't think you need anything of Build Divers to understand the show, because it explains everything relevant to the audience if you haven't seen it. It's not an issue of understanding the plot, it's about getting the full breadth of the message. I'm talking specifically about how Divers ended with the entire playerbase trying to kill an AI in order to protect the game, and Re Rise ended with the entire playerbase fighting to save an AI's soul. Not only did our main characters get to re rise, all of the GBN players could re rise. and in a meta level, the dumbest part of re rise is flipped around and the sub-sub-franchise can re rise too. I personally think that's a really neat thing the show does, applying the central premise of the show in such a big way, and addressing problems with the previous series without retconing it or making someone the bad guy. You can explain it to a new viewer, but it's much more impactful if you went through the experience of watching Divers and being like "oh c'mon this is so stupid" tsob posted:The direct elements of Build Divers present in Re:Rise are probably the worst parts of it too, by which I'm specifically thinking of the flashback episode detailing Hiroto's past Oh man, that reminds be of the argument about whether or not we're supposed to think Hiroto is badass in that episode. Possibly the dumbest argument in this thread's history tsob posted:I would also be of the opinion that Re:Rise is a show that's less than the sum of it's parts. I really enjoyed it week to week, think the cast were fun, if superficial for the most part, liked that Hiroto's story was about overcoming depression, liked a lot of the mechanical design etc, but I also don't feel any desire to ever go back and re-watch any of it. ngl I've rewatched episode 24 multiple times.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:24
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wdarkk posted:I could never evaluate Re:Rise objectively because I found it right when I needed to hear it’s message, but everyone I showed it to liked it, so I’m going to say it has a fairly high tier. I held off on watching Re:Rise for a while because I wasn't in a hurry to be disappointed by another Build show and was honestly shocked by how good it ended up being.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:48
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