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Ah yes, the cool look of an emo with a veiny face and blood shot eyes while being controlled by a psycho.
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Feb 21, 2022 10:07
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| # ? May 22, 2024 11:10 |
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yeah. the kinds of things people who havent gotten past jhonen vasquez and are scared of poor people think is cool.
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Feb 21, 2022 10:13
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Tiny Myers posted:New page.
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Feb 21, 2022 11:46
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Tiny Myers posted:New page. I mean, it does seem like Tom is trying to subvert this trope. I think this page makes it clear that we're supposed to view Loup's response as a macabre overreaction. The thing is all the baggage dropped onto this scene in previous pages makes a clear subversion impossible so we just end up with an even more muddled mess. Trying to remember the last time I enjoyed reading this comic. It been a while.
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Feb 21, 2022 12:50
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The fact that we can't agree on whether this is supposed to be cool or disturbing is a major problem with the scene overall and a sign of the comic's decline. Like this is not a complex, nuanced scene really. Everything is very blunt, but confused. Let's say Loup had instead punched one of them and looked ready to fist-fight the rest. That would be a more clear "shonen heroism" display. The scene would not be better, but it would be clearer. If this scene is supposed to be about Loup being cool, then by illustrating Loup's use of force as disturbing and chilling, it seems like Tom can't show someone using physical force as legitimate defense of another. Now, let's say instead that what was at stake was something a lot less awful than possible sexual assault, something mean but not that threatening. Then Loup's violence would be clearly disproportionate and inappropriate. If this scene is supposed to be about Loup being scary, then it seems like Tom does not appreciate the stakes he's set up. The thing that's really glaring about this is that we know Tom can do all this stuff. Think back to the scene where Coyote comes to the court. Coyote does something rude to Annie, she slaps him, and Ysegrin freaks out and tries to kill her. All around the court people are pulling out swords and poo poo to fight him off. So there's a scene in the comic that sets appropriate stakes to show that someone's use of violence is inappropriate and where he shows people appropriately getting ready to fight to defend someone. He can do this. He's just... not. The only thing I can think is that the point is that Loup is legitimately trying to be the hero but doesn't know how to act heroic. Which... eh. Lots of better ways to do that and we already kinda know this about him.
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Feb 21, 2022 13:31
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Loup's menacing face just reads more like he's dealing with serious constipation to me.
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Feb 21, 2022 14:28
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Tenebrais posted:The only surprise here is that he cared enough to intervene.
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Feb 21, 2022 14:59
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maswastaken posted:Loup is an actual monster so I can only imagine it's because he doesn't want the fuss of ditching Lana and having to find another robot. lana's little speech about self-actualization struck a chord with him so now he's doing the whole "what is this thing you call affection" routine and expressing it with his usual over-enthusiasm but the framing of the whole situation is *gestures wildly* a bit off
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Feb 21, 2022 15:06
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There Bias Two posted:Loup's menacing face just reads more like he's dealing with serious constipation to me. I mean he is clearly straining to hold back a huge flood of 
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Feb 21, 2022 15:15
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Coyote’s statement that Loup will eventually want to die is going to actually mean that Loup must “die”…so that Jerrek can truly live UwU This is my dark prophecy for this bad comic, you’re welcome.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:21
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I know it was mentioned before but as bad as the last few pages have been they would have been a good deal less bad if the only change made was erasing the question mark by Lana's head on the previous page.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:23
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Tenebrais posted:There's also Zimmy, Gamma, Parley, and Anja when she was young. Also Red but she's also a forest person originally. Possibly others but a quick skim of the cast page tells me it's woefully out of date Yeah I've noticed that with the cast page, too, but I that's pretty standard with webcomics. Joe Slowboat posted:I'll be honest I don't think Rin is getting eviler, she was already head cop in this particular town. She was poo poo before, but she's converted into a magical being with her Id completely unshackled and nothing holding back her darkest impulses at this point. It's a bit of an escalation. catapede posted:Oh sorry, I didn't mean the elves being racially coded. I meant her, a white person, pointing out different skin color and them grabbing her hair without permission. It felt weird because the grabbing felt reminiscent of what a lot of POC experience, but she's white. It didn't occur to me that it was boys groping at her in a creepy way until I came here. I mean, invading a woman's personal space, a weird stranger touching her clothes or hair, can and does happen regardless of race, unfortunately. I know it's a common offensive white person thing to invade a black woman's space specifically to touch her hair, too. They're both rooted in the same lack of respect for the person being invaded as a person and there's going to be a lot of overlap in uncomfortable energy from how these things intersect culturally in our world. Like I do agree with Joe Slowboat that you could also take racial coding from the elves, too, though I'd say it's an accidental byproduct of stacking a lot of icky things on top of each other. The elves being foreign refugees, surrounding a white girl and the sexual peril setup here, being more earthy and "uneducated" types. There's shades of classism and racism there, whatever you prefer to take away from that. Patware posted:the david cage school of racism narratives. 'is there a way i can make the racism about someone... white. bonus points if the person racisming at her is not. then they'll finally see how foolish it all is!' I'm not sure what white racism you're talking about? Detroit? Because all the really blatant Jim Crow racism and Civil Rights Movement analogy trash in that happens with Marcus, the black robot. Kara's goes really, really heavily down the Holocaust metaphor trash hole. Connor's plot is a pretty conventional buddy-cop mystery setup that I guess could kind of have background racist vibes, but also could stand in for pretty much any bigotry with "first X on the force teams up with anti-X bigot." I'm not defending Cage here, his games are gross and racist on top of a million other ism/cist things, but I'm not clear what game he's specifically doing "white racism" in.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:Coyote’s statement that Loup will eventually want to die is going to actually mean that Loup must “die”…so that Jerrek can truly live UwU help I can't stop throwing up and crying
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Feb 21, 2022 17:37
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I think the thing that makes it hard to read is that this would be a scary overreaction from literally any other character, but from Loup, it's actually an unheard-of degree of self-control.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:28
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Nuns with Guns posted:She was poo poo before, but she's converted into a magical being with her Id completely unshackled and nothing holding back her darkest impulses at this point. It's a bit of an escalation. Yeah, but A. she's got on the earings, so she does have some control, and B. now she's making problems for the powerful and awful people who run this society, rather than the people her job had her going after. Prior to Rin, husks have a 2/2 'sympathetic character who needs help, with legitimate grievances' streak, so the inherent evilness of being a husk doesn't really hold a lot of water. Anyways I think the police chief becoming a magically-infused creature of chaos has so far been a neutral event morally.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:34
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Yeah for everyone who's saying "idk I think this is clearly not supposed to be read as cool and supposed to be creepy" I respect the hell out of you and I wish i could agree, but the comment page is absolutely going to be full of people going WOW WAY TO GO JERREK THAT WAS BADASS by tonight Yeah, webcomic commenters tend to be pretty dumb, but it's a good yardstick for how the comic is generally being perceived. And whether that was Tom's intention or not, I think it speaks to how muddy it's gotten (similar to how back in Mind Cage, people were saying "this is definitely meant to be read as not ok, not as annie soapboxing to the viewer" but in the comments there were a lot of people saying "wow Annie is directly talking to the viewer... you go, girl! Annie's relationship with Tony is perfectly healthy! Take that, Critics!") Oxxidation posted:lana's little speech about self-actualization struck a chord with him so now he's doing the whole "what is this thing you call affection" routine and expressing it with his usual over-enthusiasm Also, Rand Brittain posted:I think the thing that makes it hard to read is that this would be a scary overreaction from literally any other character, but from Loup, it's actually an unheard-of degree of self-control.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:44
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It’s pretty clearly meant to portray Loup badly. His face is half in shadow, his eyes are bloodshot, you can see his veins under his skin, and his proportions look just a bit off to give him a more monstrous look. He doesn’t look like a person with righteous fury, but someone just barely holding back murderous intent. The question is…why? What is the point of this scene? We know the robot humans are naïve about the way the world works from last chapter. We know Loup is unstable. We know Loup is prone to violence. We already knew Lana is a flirtatious character. Did we need to know there were tensions between elves and non-human Court peoples? Well, Lana seems to be siding with the elves regarding Loup’s behavior, and there’s better ways to convey such tension beyond three random elf teens. I guess we’ll have to wait and see, but right now I’m not seeing much to justify this. And I highly doubt that Tom, a man in his 30s or 40s, just didn’t outgrow some angsty teen phase and thinks the way he drew Loup is in any way positive or heroic.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:47
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Pants Donkey posted:It’s pretty clearly meant to portray Loup badly. His face is half in shadow, his eyes are bloodshot, you can see his veins under his skin, and his proportions look just a bit off to give him a more monstrous look. He doesn’t look like a person with righteous fury, but someone just barely holding back murderous intent. Patware posted:yeah. the kinds of things people who havent gotten past jhonen vasquez and are scared of poor people think is cool. remember that tom's 'this is me' drawing is basically a dirty scribble that has some spiders near it.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:14
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it is time for us to admit that jhonen vasquez has always been good
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Feb 21, 2022 19:46
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That finger pinch is totally a cop move, by the way. Loup is being a cop.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:13
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Surprising restraint from oc donut steel. I really want this to be over.
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Feb 22, 2022 01:31
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Pants Donkey posted:The question is…why? What is the point of this scene? This is the question I've been asking for the last year, along with "what are the stakes and motivations? Why do I care about any of this and why does it matter?" I shouldn't be asking these sort of questions so often, I feel like. I never asked them in the first half of the comic, it was always quite clear I thought.
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Feb 22, 2022 03:29
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I'd already gone down to checking the comic when I noticed the GKC thread popping up on my User Control Panel, but it's probably time to shuffle it off into the dustbin. It makes my skin itch. There's good ways to deal with topics like sexual assault on or between minors, and this ain't it.
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Feb 22, 2022 16:54
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https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2589Nuns with Guns posted:At this point, the only thing I'm wondering about is if she'll get mad at Loup and go "I HAD IT UNDER CONTROL THE WHOLE TIME! I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!!!" and storm off, or go "Wow, thanks for that!" ding ding ding
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Feb 23, 2022 09:57
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Even doing the whole "I'm not naive I've read books about this" bit
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Feb 23, 2022 11:12
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The books thing is interesting at least as an insight into how "new people" establish who's the most savvy and knowledgeable about having a flesh body. But on the other hand, if she's that widely read I'm sure she would have come across, in some book or another, the tired trope she found herself in.
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Feb 23, 2022 13:14
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Azran posted:https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2589 I would really like it if we weren't doing this because it because it's that dang predictable, but I'm on the same boat as Pants Donkey re: "What's the point of this?" GunnerJ posted:The books thing is interesting at least as an insight into how "new people" establish who's the most savvy and knowledgeable about having a flesh body. I think it's just her. She's doing the "I know what I'm doing! I'm mature!" bit, except her coping excuse is related to being a former robo-libriarain instead of reading lots of dirty fanfics or having a boyfriend with a car. Maybe there is some underlying tension hinted at with the nu-humans (Newmans?) being aware of whatever crappy former roles they had and the potential to form a lovely pecking order around that, but I kind of hope not because I don't feel like this comic has room to explore any new territory there.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:55
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Jesus loving Christ. I hate this entire thing so much. I've powered through other less great parts of gunnerkrigg with mild annoyance but things happily got back on track and I continued to enjoy myself but God drat. I think I'll be taking a break, at the very least.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:00
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What sort of responsible duty and code of ethics does one need to follow when giving an inexperienced person an entirely new body? Robot: I wanna be a pretty lady! With dresses that swoosh! Angel: Great choice! Always be aware of your beer glass. Keep your keys out as a makeshift weapon. He's lying when he says he can't wear condoms because they're too tight. Robot: Huh? Angel: NEXT! *Next robot shows up* Oh this is a very nice design! Good job on that jawline. Make sure you give yourself an extra three hours to get through airport security.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:36
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GunnerJ posted:The books thing is interesting at least as an insight into how "new people" establish who's the most savvy and knowledgeable about having a flesh body. Her rebuttal is pretty much ruined by the question mark two pages ago.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:31
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Zerilan posted:Her rebuttal is pretty much ruined by the question mark two pages ago. Also she's making cartoony upset child faces, because we need to understand that she is a teenager who was being too forward and if there wasn't an older male character there to protect her physically things would have happened that she didn't see coming. Uuuuuugh.
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Feb 23, 2022 18:07
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come to think of it this is just shell all over again really preferred the early days’ “stiff upper lip in response to weirdness” characterization over this parade of blushing infantilized “teenagers”
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Feb 23, 2022 18:43
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Now I'm imagining an alternate timeline where Lana completely knew what she was doing, and was totally cool with it and having fun, but Loup still reacted the same and is instead framed like a weirdo incel who's mad other people are having fun and he's not Honestly, removing that one question mark might even make it come off this way
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Feb 23, 2022 18:44
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Would have been super easy to cast it that way too, as a robot with no normal human inhibitions and a desire to connect with other people and test the limits of her body, actually knowing what she was getting into and even encouraging it. I'm not sure it would have been better, depending on execution it could have still been real bad, but at least it would have been more interesting and less predictable and more clear than what we got.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:07
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CodfishCartographer posted:Now I'm imagining an alternate timeline where Lana completely knew what she was doing, and was totally cool with it and having fun, but Loup still reacted the same and is instead framed like a weirdo incel who's mad other people are having fun and he's not
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Feb 23, 2022 19:58
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Yeah that childish pout makes me want to burst into flames. So many ways you could've drawn her being angry other than the one that's like "teehee she's such a kid" I get it, corona is a gently caress, it's completely stifled me creatively too, but does that really justify falling back on the most limp, misogynistic tropes?
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Feb 23, 2022 21:46
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Tiny Myers posted:Yeah that childish pout makes me want to burst into flames. So many ways you could've drawn her being angry other than the one that's like "teehee she's such a kid" Thinking on it, I've decided to stop cutting Tom any slack with the corona excuse. Yes, corona virus is hosed and I can very easily understand it sapping creative juices. That's fine! Tom has even admitted as such, which is good that he has that amount of self-awareness! However, there's no reason to force himself to uphold the pre-pandemic upload schedule. He could easily cut it down to just two uploads a week, or even just one. He's also taken summer breaks before, he could take those extended breaks more often for his mental health. A few years from now (hell, a few months from now) nobody would remember if one chapter lasted a few weeks longer than normal cus Tom decided to take it more slowly to ensure its quality. But I'm drat sure we'll all remember the Tony stuff and the creepy poo poo happening now.
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Feb 23, 2022 22:30
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The reason you did it is extremely formulaic writing, Loup. You're still stuck in it.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:46
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The ether shapes reality and the ether is shaped by human stories. This dumb thing is happening because it's a horrible and worn out cliche.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:36
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| # ? May 22, 2024 11:10 |
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I really didnt need this. its like before she was an insane hedonist that just loves having a flesh body, but turns out she's an idiot. and what the gently caress is even going on with loups's character at all?
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Feb 26, 2022 08:18
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