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Sinteres posted:Most of France's Jews survived the Holocaust, which may not have been the case if Germany had occupied the entire country. I'm not saying Petain was a good guy or defending Nazi collaboration or saying surrendering was morally good/making any normative judgments at all really (other than that Nazis are evil of course), just that it very likely saved a whole lot of lives in France. So late but lmfao gently caress you from my grandma deported to Poland to die gently caress you for my relatives the nazis managed to finish off gently caress you for my grandpa conscripted into the malgré-nous after Alsace was annexed gently caress you for every french jew, homosexual, disabled person, Romani, gently caress you for making me go on, hunted down by vichistes gently caress you for every partisan and innocent shot by SS and Milice gently caress you every frenchman, african, and spaniard who died to liberate the country gently caress you for every kid who starved because all valuable french resources were carted off to Germany You don’t even seem to realize that the Vichy state lasted only two years before the whole country was occupied. Fall Anton, november 1942. Marshal Pétain and the other traitors are not what saved (75% of, oh thank god thank you fascist collaborators only 1 in 4 of us!) french jews Seriously, stop being all Just Asking Questions american when you clearly don’t know poo poo either about France under occupation or about Russia and Ukraine in 2022 Like, you get France has active fascists today and going “well who can say maybe Vichy was right” puts you squarely into their camp and likely to get curbstomped Sinteres posted:It's an example of there being no good decisions to make and French surrender saving lives that very likely would have been lost otherwise. I'm obviously not saying any of what happened was a good thing, or that collaborators should have died with a clean conscience (or even escaped punishment) or anything like that. Like the point of Sophie's Choice isn't that she should tell the Nazis to take both of the kids since she can't choose between them. Milice hunted down more jews than the SS (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Mar 1, 2022 19:02
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StarBegotten posted:A question occurs to me after seeing that huge Russian column of vehicles make next to no progress today is, how long do you think Russia's supplies of fuel and food last? There is a lot to unpack considering this but the more important question is, will it be relevant? It will be orders of magnitude easier for Russia to resupply than encricled cities like Kyiv.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Explain? Why is this a bigger deal than any other plane? Sure. It is one of Russia's newest and best airframes. In terms of use and capabilities it is very close to the F-15E Strike Eagle; a fighter bomber. It is supposed to take the role of both the Su-24 (which was their answer to the F-111 and Tornado) and the Tu-22 (which was their answer to the B-1). Long range fighter bomber and one of their big export showcases. They were using them in areas in Syria until they started taking hits and then nearly stopped using them except for strikes with little to no chance of danger. Most assumed because of a mixture of not wanting to show off the limitations of the airframe they are trying to make money on desperately and because they can't afford to repair them.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:03
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Alchenar posted:The problem is not going to be stockpiles, they've spent months moving stuff into position for this. The issue is how much throughput they have from the stockpiles to the frontline. "Any idiot can raise an army, but things get a little bit different around dinnertime if there isn't food for them." --Paraphrasing David Eddings.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:04
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Trump posted:A tower built like that is pretty hard to topple with traditional ordnance. A large majority of the explosive force simply gets dispersed into thin air. It would need a direct on something load bearing to go down. They will need a much larger explosion to destroy an open lattice.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:05
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Orthanc6 posted:My bet, the TV tower. With the populace being armed, disrupting the government's communication with them could be a strategic goal. TheRat posted:They announced earlier today that they were taking out "communications and propaganda" or something like that, so they were probably aiming for the TV station. FishBulbia posted:The TV tower most likely, Like in a coup, in an invasion media control is important. Yeah, but looking at Russia's precision strikes in this peacekeeping mission I found it hard to believe that they would hit it.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:07
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One thing that I don't think anyone has pointe out yet is that roasting a bunch of conscripts that might of been unwilling to fight anyway would be a PR disaster for the Ukrainians. Assuming they had the ability to do so. Look at how public opinion began shifting after the "highway of death" massacre (because that was what it was) of fleeing Iraqi troops became public knowledge during the first gulf War. Right now Ukrainians look like world heroes and public sentiment for them is driving a lot of aid to them that might not have been as forthcoming if that public opinion in America and the EU started to cool. So let them sit there cold and hungry until they hopefully get told to go home.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:07
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gently caress I'm sorry I'm posting so much but things are moving really really fast right now This could open the floodgates, though Russian soldiers trying for various borders right now could get very messy. The source is based in Berlin and used to be the Brussels bureau chief of The Economist NOTE  this is only a proposal right now, don't get whacked out about it yet https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1498717264551555075?t=KqlN5m6ai3f4YRsoVtCNjQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1498720030124617731?t=JyIVNknxn56fj96BvoahpA&s=19
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Mar 1, 2022 19:07
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Dr. Despair posted:It's also a bit more focused on air to ground stuff than some of the other planes (if the Su-25 if the Russian equivalent of an A-10 then the Su-34 could be compared to an F-15E Strike Eagle). Flies fast, carries a lot of bombs, has more armor around the cockpit, and has a "toilet" (or at least a hand held urinal of sorts). I was going to make a joke but actually yeah I can see how having a plane you can safely piss in would be an asset in terms of flight times etc.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:08
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Cimber posted:"Any idiot can raise an army, but things get a little bit different around dinnertime if there isn't food for them." --Paraphrasing David Eddings. An army marches on its stomach. And the guy who said that knows a thing or two about (badly losing) land invasions.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:09
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Numlock posted:One thing that I don't think anyone has pointe out yet is that roasting a bunch of conscripts that might of been unwilling to fight anyway would be a PR disaster for the Ukrainians. Assuming they had the ability to do so. There's a significant difference between massacring a retreating enemy when you're in their country and attacking a column of people trying to take yours. Highway of death was bad, bombing the poo poo out of a column advancing on your capital, however slowly, would not be.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:10
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thunderspanks posted:An army marches on its stomach. And the guy who said that knows a thing or two about (badly losing) land invasions. And about the value of capturing an empty capital city
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Mar 1, 2022 19:10
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Alchenar posted:The problem is not going to be stockpiles, they've spent months moving stuff into position for this. If the stockpile depth reflects an incorrect and optimistic timeline then the problem might also extend to stockpiles.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:10
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KitConstantine posted:gently caress I'm sorry I'm posting so much but things are moving really really fast right now How on earth would they police this offer at this stage?
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Mar 1, 2022 19:11
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Imagine the moral effect if you were stuck in a traffic jam that has barely moved in two days, there is no food, no fuel, no communications, nowhere to go - and the only thing that happens is that from time to time something blows up up or down the road, at random intervals, at random distance from you.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:12
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Captain Kosmos posted:Yeah, but looking at Russia's precision strikes in this peacekeeping mission I found it hard to believe that they would hit it. There's more footage coming out of decidedly civilian targets being hit. Russia has been avoiding this a little, but no one should be surprised as cities get encircled or invaded that more civilian targets get hit. They know they will be fighting an insurgency, most of this war will in fact be shooting at what would normally be civilian targets. We're still in the time where Ukraine's regular military is the primary target, but unless this invasion starts to fall apart at the seams (please fall apart at the seams), Ukraine's army will be gone eventually and Russia will be shooting at any structure that shoots back at them.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:12
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the popes toes posted:If the stockpile depth reflects an incorrect and optimistic timeline then the problem might also extend to stockpiles. You are all assuming basic competence here. Something Russia has not really shown in abundance. Orthanc6 posted:There's more footage coming out of decidedly civilian targets being hit. Russia has been avoiding this a little, but no one should be surprised as cities get encircled or invaded that more civilian targets get hit. They know they will be fighting an insurgency, most of this war will in fact be shooting at what would normally be civilian targets. We're still in the time where Ukraine's regular military is the primary target, but unless this invasion starts to fall apart at the seams (please fall apart at the seams), Ukraine's army will be gone eventually and Russia will be shooting at any structure that shoots back at them. When you get into fighting city battles, everything is a civilian target. I'm not defending Russia here, it's just very very hard to make usable assessments on target legitimacy based on Ukraine information and 15 second tiktok videos. In my eyes the whole invasion is a crime. Trump fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Mar 1, 2022 19:13
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steinrokkan posted:Imagine the moral effect if you were stuck in a traffic jam that has barely moved in two days, there is no food, no fuel, no communications, nowhere to go - and the only thing that happens is that from time to time something blows up up or down the road, at random intervals, at random distance from you. you don't think they have a bunch of MREs in some of those trucks?
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Mar 1, 2022 19:13
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thunderspanks posted:An army marches on its stomach. And the guy who said that knows a thing or two about (badly losing) land invasions. "Russia shouldn't Invade itself in the winter"
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Mar 1, 2022 19:14
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No big deal just going to invite a bunch of Russian armed forces personel into the bloc without proper vetting. Hope they're all who they say they are, definitely won't be needing to wipe down every door handle before touching it.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:14
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Rinkles posted:you don't think they have a bunch of MREs in some of those trucks? Correction, you have your expired MRE of gruel eatn cold in the cabin of your truck
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Mar 1, 2022 19:14
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Rinkles posted:you don't think they have a bunch of MREs in some of those trucks? Each one used in the traffic jam is one less for the front line!
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Mar 1, 2022 19:14
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I’ve been optimistically hopeful, but I am bracing for a bunch of bad news to land tonight and tomorrow, Russia is escalating and am seeing video proof that cities are being hit hard or have armor and infantry in city centers. So I am semi expecting the east to be “captured” soon, and that we might have a tumultuous next few days. That said Ukraine is huge and there is a bunch of land in the west that isn’t falling soon.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:14
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498720233598734337 - bombing/rocketing of Kharkiv tonight, from a distance in the dark. That poo poo looks like absolute hell on earth.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:15
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KitConstantine posted:NOTE
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Mar 1, 2022 19:15
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This was yesterday already so might have been posted on the previous pages, apologies if this is the case, but a survey of Russians found 68% in support of the Ukraine "operation", 22% against and 10% unsure. https://wciom.ru/analytical-reviews/analiticheskii-obzor/specialnaja-voennaja-operacija-v-ukraine-otnoshenie-i-celi TV is the most important news media for most Russians. Picture presented on Russian TV of the conflict is decidedly different from western media.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:16
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They are absolutely annihilating the one city that could have possibly tolerated their occupation, and they are nover going to rebuild it, like they never rebuilt Donetsk and Luhansk
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Mar 1, 2022 19:16
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TheRat posted:How on earth would they police this offer at this stage? You wouldn't. You'd just accept them all then set up a process for after discovered evidence.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:17
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Trump posted:You are all assuming basic competence here. Something Russia has not really shown in abundance. Thats the only hope: In reality, Russia cannot do a do-over as far as getting competent soldiers in place. This is why Armies train so much: You either stay sharp or sharpen new recruits or you lose competence. Everything we are seeing implies a massively incompetant force depending on sheer force of size to overwhelm the Ukrainians.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:17
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As a reminder for why this matters: outside of a few missile designs the Russian armed forces consist of upgraded legacy Soviet designs. The SU-34 is 'high end' but the prototype flew in 1990 and it sat on the shelf until 2014 when Russia could actually afford to buy some. Russia's 'peer competitor' kit relies on foreign technology for 25-33% of its components and access to that is obviously gone now, so even a bit of damage to these airframes could easily make them an irreplacable write-off.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:17
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Shes Not Impressed posted:Given what some posters said way back about Putin's distaste for domestic politics I'm going to hazard a guess that little things like logistics and encrypted radio channels don't fit into his big board game calculus. This makes me chuckle because 60% of board games these days are about logistics.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:18
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You wouldn't. You'd just accept them all then set up a process for after discovered evidence. Which makes it politically dead in the water
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Mar 1, 2022 19:18
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Rinkles posted:you don't think they have a bunch of MREs in some of those trucks? Food is a pretty big morale thing in the military and huddling around Esbit stoves or using FRHs for days on end in a freezing hostile environment out in the clear isn't the ideal eating situation.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:19
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steinrokkan posted:They are absolutely annihilating the one city that could have possibly tolerated their occupation, and they are nover going to rebuild it, like they never rebuilt Donetsk and Luhansk The old USSR capital, no less.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:19
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ZombieLenin posted:I am hearing a lot of cautiously good chatter. US DoD saying 80% of Putin's invasion army is now inside Ukraine, but Ukraine defense still holding. Russian troops are showing noted risk avoidance behavior. Keep in mind that Russia is pulling in Belarus (up to +50k), and is also moving Far East reinforcements (tbd count).
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Mar 1, 2022 19:20
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TheRat posted:There's a significant difference between massacring a retreating enemy when you're in their country and attacking a column of people trying to take yours. Highway of death was bad, bombing the poo poo out of a column advancing on your capital, however slowly, would not be. It's true that bombing the poo poo out of the column would be tolerated by western allies. However, pulling off a block + starve to force a retreat of the personnel while leaving the material behind due to a lack of fuel could arguably lead to a much better outcome in various regards. It's definitely riskier (assuming that destroying the column would be easy), but Ukraine is in a position where the risk/reward calculus may very well warrant it.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:20
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In other news, with all the crypto donations going to Ukraine I was worried I would have to stop hating everyone involved in that loving terrible industry. Thank God such a nightmare was not allowed to become real https://twitter.com/robaeprice/status/1498380415781924864?t=Q2IYQvPV5uc7_o_dOHsZGA&s=19
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Mar 1, 2022 19:22
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edit: actually never mind, it's just a rumour at this stage
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Mar 1, 2022 19:22
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Keep in mind that Russia is pulling in Belarus (up to +50k), and is also moving Far East reinforcements (tbd count). I don't think Russia is going to lose this war it's just going to be very costly and now I'm really not sure how they are going to hold onto any of Ukraine afterwards.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:22
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Popete posted:I don't think Russia is going to lose this war it's just going to be very costly and now I'm really not sure how they are going to hold onto any of Ukraine afterwards. That's called losing, when you don't accomplish your political objectives.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:23
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