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cinci zoo sniper posted:Nothing to do with ethnic conflict there, just ugly opportunism. Contrary to Kremlin’s propaganda, an assload of Ukrainians enjoy going about their days in Russian. Not the least their president himself, who comes from a Russian-speaking family, as I recall it. For the Kremlin elite this is sort of an ethnic conflict. They've been consistently describing Ukrainians as some kind of lesser Russians - lost and twisted by the wicked west. The point of this invasion was to get them back into a Russian empire to be cleansed of such vile influence. That's the truly disturbing part of the 'de-nazification' bullshit: It is more than just vile propaganda, but also a politically correct (in Kreml terms) way to describe 'de-Eurofication'. Putin and his movement see Moscow and Russia as a cultural urheimat for the Russo-Slavic people. This is not just opportunism and empire building. This is an echo of oldschool ethno-nationalism. If anything this is anti-opportunism, as the invasion came at a very stupid point in time and was poorly planned. The ethno-nationalist fervor of the inner circle (and probably Putin in particular) reaching critical mass and no longer being containable. In hindsight, recent Russian history has so many echoes of Germany in the 30s. We're just lucky that Ukraine turned out to be an extremely stubborn and loveable underdog to the expansionist beast in black. Incredibly luckily. If Ukraine had folded and been gobbled up - I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a larger and much more horrific conflict. Russia with Ukraine integrated and weaponized? Then timing their expansion with China grabbing Taiwan? poo poo, I think Ukraine might have saved us from a very horrible timeline by being so very awesome at the right time in history. I hope they send the Russian army packing - if not, I think they will galvanize Europe into intervening as a non-NATO coalition. Ukraine has won over the hearts and minds of Europe. But getting back to my initial point - this is not just cold war power politics and cynical Realpolitik opportunism. We're seeing the emergence, and hopefully swift abortion, of an ethno-nationalist murderstate. Churchill did get it mostly right in his much maligned quote about fascism returning in the guise of anti-fascism - except it is nazism returning as 'de-nazification'.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:48
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cr0y posted:What does joining the EU specifically gain? Look at the UK before & after Brexit, they/we/me are going to suffer for such stupidity. 
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Mar 3, 2022 22:49
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Mooseontheloose posted:Trade and freedom of movement. You joint the 2nd biggest trading block in the world essentially. The only "security" thing is mutual aid for natural disasters.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:50
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah if nothing else, this whole conflict is showing that sometimes it's actually good to have a former TV personality leading your country. Boris Johnson used to appear on a political comedy panel show called Have I got News for You prior to becoming an MP, that show is where he started to be a popular public figure for being a bumbling clown the comedians on the show routinely made fun of. So I think it's for the worse more times than otherwise!
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Mar 3, 2022 22:50
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Blitz of 404 Error posted:Who holds Hostomel right now? Yes
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Mar 3, 2022 22:50
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Mooseontheloose posted:Trade and freedom of movement. You joint the 2nd biggest trading block in the world essentially. Not to mention deep cooperation and financial support in almost every imaginable field, from research to agriculture to infrastructure. It's mostly invisible to EU members themselves because they've gotten used to it, but it's painfully visible to all neighbours on the outside looking in.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:51
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PederP posted:poo poo, I think Ukraine might have saved us from a very horrible timeline by being so very awesome at the right time in history. I hope they send the Russian army packing - if not, I think they will galvanize Europe into intervening as a non-NATO coalition. Ukraine has won over the hearts and minds of Europe. I also think Russia hosed itself over by trying to boil Ukraine slowly starting in 2014. They've had 8 years to prepare themselves materially but more importantly mentally for this eventuality. Had he just steamrolled them out of the blue... right after crimea maybe? Or now even. Maybe it wasnt possible then, but anyway the chronology worked against Putin here.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:53
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cr0y posted:What does joining the EU specifically gain? I mean lots of things, including freedom of movement and goods. But specifically the process of joining the EU gets you access to a) development funds to help you get EU compliant administration in place, but also and perhaps more importantly b) access to a continent's worth of very, very talented civil administrators who will help you get to work on building your institutions.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:53
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barbecue at the folks posted:Not to mention deep cooperation and financial support in almost every imaginable field, from research to agriculture to infrastructure. It's mostly invisible to EU members themselves because they've gotten used to it, but it's painfully visible to all neighbours on the outside looking in. Just look at GDP growth for former eastern block countries inside of the EU compared to most outside of it. It's a rather stark difference.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:54
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barbecue at the folks posted:Not to mention deep cooperation and financial support in almost every imaginable field, from research to agriculture to infrastructure. It's mostly invisible to EU members themselves because they've gotten used to it, but it's painfully visible to all neighbours on the outside looking in. I'm sure Brexit prompted a lot of countries to take a second look at applying for EU membership, just because the UK was getting hit from so many angles by what they weren't able to do anymore. Hell, just look at them floundering to figure out their fishing rights and getting trucks across the border.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:55
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Seamonster posted:The only "security" thing is mutual aid for natural disasters. Incorrect. Majorian posted:There is indeed a mutual defense clause in the Lisbon Treaty. The problem, of course, is that both Moldova and Georgia are engaged in ongoing territorial disputes. While (as cinci informed me a couple weeks back in this very thread) that doesn't automatically preclude a country from acceding to the EU, it makes it more likely that the same countries that would veto NATO membership for Georgia and Moldova would also veto them joining the EU.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:56
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cr0y posted:What does joining the EU specifically gain? Compare GDP PPP per capita of Estonia to any non-EU country in Eastern Europe.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:57
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fatherboxx posted:Local sources on Russian deaths (like in this case, a veteran union that is not interested in sowing panic on behalf of Ukraine psyops or whatever) should be considered reliable Yes, I would very much like to see this source in particular. I've seen it referenced but I haven't seen the source itself. Please share if you have it, thanks!
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Mar 3, 2022 22:57
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https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1499339110502256641 It is moving, really moving, and a nice respite from the evil. Of course the "but other migrants" conversation really has pertinence, but give me this for the moment.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:57
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I won't repeat everything I mentioned earlier, but article 42.7 is an obligation for "aid and assistance", not for a military response. The interpretation is in practice left up the the member states and the agreement on aid is settled on a bilateral basis and not by the European Council. This was tested when France invoked article 42.7 in 2015. Basically a country can call on other member states for aid, and then the member states and the country who invoked it will each bilaterally coordinate. You're obligated to respond, but the response is determined by each member state. This is also technically also true of NATO's article 5, but in practice the way NATO works institutionally it's a much more integrated response.Blitz of 404 Error posted:Who holds Hostomel right now? This should be one of those websites; https://www.whoholdshostomel.com. Hostomel truly is this war in a mini-narrative, especially if that general died anywhere close to it. Dante fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 3, 2022 |
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Mar 3, 2022 22:57
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DekeThornton posted:Just look at GDP growth for former eastern block countries inside of the EU compared to most outside of it. It's a rather stark difference. How much of this is the EU not accepting countries who aren't on track to do better economically?
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Mar 3, 2022 22:58
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All of these tweets describing Russian soldiers sleeping on the ground (the ground!) from noted Very Strong and Powerful Man Marco Rubio just have me . Like, yes: you're in the military. You sleep on the ground. You don't get a nice, cushy hotel bed with room service and those cute little chocolates they leave on your pillow. Then again, I usually slept on or in my vehicle. Particularly in the winter, it's warmer. If Russian soldiers really aren't, that may indicate they fear getting blown up while asleep. And that, in spite of Rubio, could indicate the average soldier thinks things aren't going great.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:58
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PederP posted:For the Kremlin elite this is sort of an ethnic conflict. They've been consistently describing Ukrainians as some kind of lesser Russians - lost and twisted by the wicked west. The point of this invasion was to get them back into a Russian empire to be cleansed of such vile influence. That's the truly disturbing part of the 'de-nazification' bullshit: It is more than just vile propaganda, but also a politically correct (in Kreml terms) way to describe 'de-Eurofication'. Putin and his movement see Moscow and Russia as a cultural urheimat for the Russo-Slavic people. This is not just opportunism and empire building. This is an echo of oldschool ethno-nationalism. Ehrm, you’re replying to a comment about a specific video on Twitter.
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Mar 3, 2022 22:58
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Macron channeling the France of old:quote:“The war in Europe no longer belongs to our school books; it is there, before our eyes,” Macron added in his address. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/macron-addresses-nation-on-ukraine-to-convene-leaders-in-eu-summit/2521843
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Mar 3, 2022 22:58
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the popes toes posted:https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1499339110502256641 Mister Rogers posted:"When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping. '"
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Mar 3, 2022 23:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why would China try to peel off the Kazakhs and risk pissing off Russia when they can wait around and get the whole Russian bloc as a client, for free? This is a slight derail so sorry if that's a problem but from what I understand actively meddling in other countries like that is just not how China operates (for now). Remember the USA and Russia were superpowers who fought for global supremacy for a lot of the 20th century, so they're much more used to that kind of thing. China is more used to being a junior country focused on economic development and hasn't really focused on diplomacy all that much. There are stories about Russian diplomats coaching Chinese diplomats about the best tactics and rhetoric to throw their weight around more in the UN. At its core Chinese foreign policy essentially consists of agreeing to build construction projects in other countries using Chinese labor and getting pissy at any country that recognizes or is friendly with Taiwan, and to do as little as possible about anything else so that everyone keeps ignoring them as they get stronger and stronger. They don't really think in terms of superpower Cold War logic of peeling off allies in other countries or intervening to install puppets in other countries and controlling their agendas like the US and Russia do. That may change one day, it probably will but it hasn't happened yet.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:01
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sean10mm posted:How much of this is the EU not accepting countries who aren't on track to do better economically? Not much, if anything? They accepted Romania and Bulgaria, they made progress with Turkey that stalled not for economic reasons.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:02
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PederP posted:Macron channeling the France of old: I suppose there are reasons that Mr. Macron hasn't pressured Total to pull out but I'd be curious to hear them.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:04
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the popes toes posted:https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1499339110502256641 Yeah, it's possible to celebrate the good things that are happening, even while bad things are also happening. This is one of the good things. Very heartening. 
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Mar 3, 2022 23:05
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Ehrm, you’re replying to a comment about a specific video on Twitter. Sorry, my bad. I still think it's important to underline that this is about ethno-nationalism as major media (at least from my perspective) keep trying to frame this in terms of a resurgent cold war. This is not about rebuilding USSR. Even if the cold war was mostly about power blocs and proxy wars, there was a communist vs capitalist conflict underpinning it all. This time around Kreml is something far more sinister.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:08
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PederP posted:poo poo, I think Ukraine might have saved us from a very horrible timeline by being so very awesome at the right time in history. I hope they send the Russian army packing - if not, I think they will galvanize Europe into intervening as a non-NATO coalition. Ukraine has won over the hearts and minds of Europe. This seems excessively cheery, when Russians are on a better timetable to capture Kiev than the US was in capturing Baghdad.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:10
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Since it's come around at least twice, I think there's no point in any appearance of indulging in homophobic insinuations about Putin's sexuality or depictions of him as queer. I recognize that it's a natural course of action under a regime which pushes homophobia as a culture war missive (gayness becomes commonplace as an insult, etc), and then gets compounded by his acute reaction to intimation of gayness, but to be real about it, don't play into that kind of het culture shaming
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Mar 3, 2022 23:10
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https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1499484643699183617 When the Javelin bass drops. Between the sanctions and the state of Russian logistics I think it's fair to ask if their losses are effectively irreplaceable, at least in the context of the theatre of operations. It doesn't matter how big your army is if they can't get to the front lines, and when they do they are hungry and cold and have no ammo. Your army at that point is basically theoretical.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:10
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sean10mm posted:How much of this is the EU not accepting countries who aren't on track to do better economically? I mean you can choose to chicken an egg this but the process of joining the EU does require that you hit targets on corruption, free markets, independent judiciary etc etc - all things that are indicators of doing well ecconomically. This is a big and complicated topic and not really the focus of the thread, but in a nutshell look at a map of Europe and ask yourself if it looks like the EU has cherry picked rich members? e: congrats on losing the homophobic av majorian
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Mar 3, 2022 23:12
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TulliusCicero posted:
the first amendment is pretty important imo and until we're at war with russia there's no sedition occurring
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Mar 3, 2022 23:12
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OldMold posted:I thought he was the one who was buying the majority of the russian engines. Fun story behind that. Way back in the early ought's, Musk and SX went to Russia to buy rocket engines from Roscosmos, since they were one of the largest commercial launchers at the time. Russia laughed in their faces and gave them a price 10x what was expected. Musk left in a fit of pique and they developed the Merlin (barely). Over the next few years SpaceX competed and lowered the price of commercial launches so much that roscosmos was priced out of the market and mostly shut down commercial launches altogether. This was a massive loss for their space program. Oh, and roscosmos is one of the main reasons why Russia keeps Kazakhstan on a tight leash. Their main launch facilities are located inside that country.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:13
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Franks Happy Place posted:It doesn't matter how big your army is if they can't get to the front lines, and when they do they are hungry and cold and have no ammo. Your army at that point is basically theoretical. Physical Number Of War Vehicles On A Lot is probably a good sounding number to send to moscow in justifying your oversight. As to whether or not those vehicles were being properly maintained was ... probably not so thoroughly included in the paperwork
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Mar 3, 2022 23:13
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JesusSinfulHands posted:This is a slight derail so sorry if that's a problem but from what I understand actively meddling in other countries like that is just not how China operates (for now). Remember the USA and Russia were superpowers who fought for global supremacy for a lot of the 20th century, so they're much more used to that kind of thing. China is more used to being a junior country focused on economic development and hasn't really focused on diplomacy all that much. There are stories about Russian diplomats coaching Chinese diplomats about the best tactics and rhetoric to throw their weight around more in the UN. This is just wrong (and faintly bigoted?). China's Belt and Road initiative has resulted in dozens of countries signing up for Chinese allie-ship. I saw this firsthand in Ethiopia, with the government being indebted to China to the tune of billions, and a turn from the US there to that country.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:14
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Grouchio posted:Thank you for re-awakening my PTSD you rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:14
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Shageletic posted:This seems excessively cheery, when Russians are on a better timetable to capture Kiev than the US was in capturing Baghdad. Maps and stuff. russia hasnt made a serious attempt to capture kyiv so making a timetable for that is kinda hard
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Mar 3, 2022 23:14
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Relevant Tangent posted:the first amendment is pretty important imo and until we're at war with russia there's no sedition occurring Everyone can heart what RT wants to say just fine. This is again one of those "Why should we allow a state media org to just have free broadcast space to blast propaganda." Nothing is stopping you from hearing what RT wants to say, they just can't do it openly as much anymore.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:15
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Kavros posted:Since it's come around at least twice, I think there's no point in any appearance of indulging in homophobic insinuations about Putin's sexuality or depictions of him as queer. I recognize that it's a natural course of action under a regime which pushes homophobia as a culture war missive (gayness becomes commonplace as an insult, etc), and then gets compounded by his acute reaction to intimation of gayness, but to be real about it, don't play into that kind of het culture shaming That reminds me that earlier today there was a short discourse about Lavrov's choice of words during the press conference today. Whether or not he alluded to the Gallic rooster, used a slur or did both when speaking about the French FM. https://twitter.com/the_ins_ru/status/1499334408230297602
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Mar 3, 2022 23:15
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the popes toes posted:https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1499339110502256641 Saw this one on a stroll through a northern German city:  I haven't seen any Cyrillic on official billboards around here before. I assume the city is preparing to house a lot of refugees again. e: This happened with Syrian refugees as well, btw. Time will tell how long that sentiment holds.
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Mar 3, 2022 23:15
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Paracausal posted:now we're getting into the cool zone I showed this to someone working on the ISS project at JSC NASA who had done some safety studies about de-orbiting the ISS last year. The reply was, "Even if they fired every thruster on the station it would still take fifteen months to fall to earth."
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Mar 3, 2022 23:16
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It also seems that Ukrainian forces are already doing counterattacks and rolling up relatively elite Russian units in the east, which, well, not saying much but still can't be very promising for Russia. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...8#liveBlogCards quote:Ukrainian armed forces have defeated an elite Russian unit in Kharkiv, an adviser to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Wednesday. The 200th is stationed near the northern border of Finland. Make of that what you will
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Mar 3, 2022 23:16
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