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sometimes i read this thread and find i've developed a spontaneous nosebleed and then i look back and it's always hyphz posting something batshit insane that makes no sense for how regular people play RPGs (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 4, 2022 00:46
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| # ? May 23, 2024 14:46 |
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That was uncalled for
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Mar 4, 2022 00:49
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Is this the right place to vent about my frustrations with restructuring the Invisible Sun TTRPG?
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Mar 4, 2022 00:53
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hyphz posted:Ultimately the GM role in most games comes down to some form of having, or pretending to have, hidden information. So the question is if you can create an RPG that doesn't require hidden information, which is tricky, because with no hidden information there's a limited ability to discover, and discovery is a key part of the appeal of interacting with fiction. Arivia posted:hyphz posting something batshit insane that makes no sense for how regular people play RPGs
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Mar 4, 2022 00:56
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Gray Ghost posted:Is this the right place to vent about my frustrations with restructuring the Invisible Sun TTRPG?
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Mar 4, 2022 01:01
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Gray Ghost posted:Is this the right place to vent about my frustrations with restructuring the Invisible Sun TTRPG? I think there's a Cypher thread if you would prefer. Or was, at least. I can't find it at the moment; it's not precisely a goon favorite.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:01
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mellonbread posted:GM-less games can use player generated information to substitute for the discovery that normally comes from the GM creating the world. So another character can have a secret chosen by the player, and you discover that secret and create drama as a result. It all depends on whether you consider uncovering player created information a satisfying discovery, in the same sense as you would exploring and revealing physical space, or a plot crafted by an NPC, or a shocking lore revelation about the game setting. Or oracular tables and playing to find out what happens, like someone already mentioned Ironsworn uses. There’s plenty of interesting discussion to be had, just not with hyphz the black hole.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:03
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Then discuss it with the other people in this thread who are talking about it. Like you say, it's an interesting topic.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:08
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Using oracles instead of a gm with hidden information actually is a pretty good way to spark a sense of discovery, even if it means me and my co-op partner are actually taking the oracle prompt and improvising based on it.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:10
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Hostile V posted:That sounds legitimately interesting, what are you trying to do and what do you feel needs to be fixed? So, I have been incredibly frustrated with using the four books in the Black Cube for our actual play, particularly with locating rules for play as opposed to GMing resources. So, I’ve been collating the books on a Notion as two separate texts: one for players focused on play, basic setting overview, spells and spell systems, common equipment, and character creation (the “Vislae Handbook”) and one for GMs focused on making NPCs and creatures, interpreting Sooth deck pulls, secret setting info, and additional adjudication ideas. Where i’m struggling is the sheer number of systems and cruft in play here: in order to make this resource complete, i have to transcribe so much *fluff*, over 900 spells, and a whole host of Warlock invocation-like Secrets. I kind of want to go over everything in the text once I’m done copying and pasting and take a scalpel to everything and take another crack at all of the magic sub-systems. It’s just so galling because I read something like Heart: The City Beneath, which is super elegant in its rules and so evocative in its setting and Invisible Sun has a ton of the latter without much of the former. Edit: For more frame of reference, check out Wapole Languray’s write-up. Gray Ghost fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Mar 4, 2022 |
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Mar 4, 2022 01:18
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Arivia posted:sometimes i read this thread and find i've developed a spontaneous nosebleed and then i look back and it's always hyphz posting something batshit insane that makes no sense for how regular people play RPGs Going to third "that was uncalled for". I have a lot of interest in solo play (not quite GMless, but adjacent), to the point where I made the solo thread. I still haven't managed to make it really click for myself, because "discovery" is the one biggest thing I want out of RPGs and there's little to none of it to be had when you're in control of all the inputs or they're all transparent to you. It's a fundamentally different experience and people who like standard RPGs aren't guaranteed to enjoy that degree of authorial control. I'd reckon hyphz's view is probably the majority view outside the SA bubble. Just drop the grudge already. It's not funny or cute to anyone but you and it keeps derailing threads until Leper or others have to step in.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:23
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CitizenKeen posted:I adore GMing, Tulip. yeah, it's a blast
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Mar 4, 2022 01:29
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SkyeAuroline posted:Going to third "that was uncalled for". I have a lot of interest in solo play (not quite GMless, but adjacent), to the point where I made the solo thread. I still haven't managed to make it really click for myself, because "discovery" is the one biggest thing I want out of RPGs and there's little to none of it to be had when you're in control of all the inputs or they're all transparent to you. It's a fundamentally different experience and people who like standard RPGs aren't guaranteed to enjoy that degree of authorial control. I'd reckon hyphz's view is probably the majority view outside the SA bubble. It is true that solo/co-op its a very different experience from GMed gaming, though I will say having prior exposure to other games that put more narrative control in player hands does make transitioning to the solo/coop play mindset a bit easier. Ironsworn in particular clearly has some pbta dna in its bones.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:38
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Arivia posted:Or oracular tables and playing to find out what happens, like someone already mentioned Ironsworn uses. There’s plenty of interesting discussion to be had, just not with hyphz the black hole. Seriously, stop making GBS threads on the dude for merely posting. If you can't do that, and you find yourself unable to manage the sequence of actions to remove his posts from your easy view, you're gonna have to either exercise some restraint or be removed from the conversation. Yeah, we ask get it - hyphz threads can get lovely and dumb sometimes, but they're way more on-topic and less gross than your weird grudge-posting.
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Mar 4, 2022 01:39
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dwarf74 posted:Then block him. Yes please.
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Mar 4, 2022 02:08
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Are there any other games with rudimentary AI for their enemies like Emberwind and Summon Skate? I'm really interested to see if any other games have developed something like that.
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Mar 4, 2022 02:18
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I've liked GMing, but I haven't done it in a long time. 
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Mar 4, 2022 02:32
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Leraika posted:Are there any other games with rudimentary AI for their enemies like Emberwind and Summon Skate? I'm really interested to see if any other games have developed something like that. I've been looking at jamming something like Five Parsecs from Home and Starforged together, so maybe look at some solo wargames for the state of the art for the tech?
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Mar 4, 2022 02:58
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CitizenKeen posted:I've been looking at jamming something like Five Parsecs from Home and Starforged together, so maybe look at some solo wargames for the state of the art for the tech? Well, there is at least one guy in the Ironsworn discord who plays Ironsworn but uses Old School Essentials for fights instead of the normal combat mechancis, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. I haven't looked at the details of what this person does however.
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Mar 4, 2022 03:24
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CitizenKeen posted:I've been looking at jamming something like Five Parsecs from Home and Starforged together, so maybe look at some solo wargames for the state of the art for the tech? I'm Very Much not a wargame person, so I had no idea solo wargames were even a thing.
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Mar 4, 2022 03:33
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Leraika posted:I'm Very Much not a wargame person, so I had no idea solo wargames were even a thing. You and me both, friend. I've been enjoying Starforged but the combat against myself wasn't really doing it for me, but while I've never really solo-wargamed (or really wargamed), reading through some of the solo wargames, it seems like there's not quite enough story there for me. But what if I could combine the two?!
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Mar 4, 2022 03:38
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Gray Ghost posted:So, I have been incredibly frustrated with using the four books in the Black Cube for our actual play, particularly with locating rules for play as opposed to GMing resources. So, I’ve been collating the books on a Notion as two separate texts: one for players focused on play, basic setting overview, spells and spell systems, common equipment, and character creation (the “Vislae Handbook”) and one for GMs focused on making NPCs and creatures, interpreting Sooth deck pulls, secret setting info, and additional adjudication ideas. Yeah, this sounds about right for IS. The book organization is so bizarre and scattered that I suspect it'd definitely need a reorg to be playable, and it's so... much... stuff. (And so little of it matters, but that's another rant.) I'd be curious to hear how this has been working out for your table.
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Mar 4, 2022 03:51
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CitizenKeen posted:I've been looking at jamming something like Five Parsecs from Home and Starforged together, so maybe look at some solo wargames for the state of the art for the tech? There is also a person on the Nordic Weasel (creator of Five Parsecs from Home) discord who was creating Stars Without Number factions based on his 5 Parsecs patrons and enemies. In addition, he used the 5 Parsec species list to flesh out aliens in his SWN game. I don't know if he was doing more than that in terms of crossover but I would imagine there is more room for viable interactions between 5 Parsecs and SWN.
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Mar 4, 2022 04:30
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CitizenKeen posted:I adore GMing, Tulip. So do I. I prefer it to playing actually.
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Mar 4, 2022 05:45
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Mates I will level with you - I want to run a game so hard I might even bust out d&d 5ed. I'm that desperate
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Mar 4, 2022 08:55
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Runa posted:Using oracles instead of a gm with hidden information actually is a pretty good way to spark a sense of discovery, even if it means me and my co-op partner are actually taking the oracle prompt and improvising based on it. You could even have a thing where each player is given ownership of one of the setting's big mysteries and the table collaboratively GM anything that falls outside that. So, want to know how the fishing village you've wandered into react to a bunch of adventurers? The whole group agree on what seems reasonable. Turns out the mayor's a fae? Eric steps in and weaves it into the ongoing fae plotline he has planned.
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Mar 4, 2022 09:57
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Whybird posted:You could even have a thing where each player is given ownership of one of the setting's big mysteries and the table collaboratively GM anything that falls outside that. So, want to know how the fishing village you've wandered into react to a bunch of adventurers? The whole group agree on what seems reasonable. Turns out the mayor's a fae? Eric steps in and weaves it into the ongoing fae plotline he has planned. I think part of the problem with this is that, at least to me, a good mystery is somewhat telegraphed ahead of time, letting players/readers pick up that something is off and maybe guess at what the secret is. If you've got multiple storytellers/setting builders, signalling like that has an easy time getting muddled, buried or interrupted. Leraika posted:Are there any other games with rudimentary AI for their enemies like Emberwind and Summon Skate? I'm really interested to see if any other games have developed something like that. I've been toying a bit with it for a homebrew, but what I always get stuck on is finding an AI that's actually still challenging for the players and requires them to think, and which doesn't just get stuck in a corner. Plus at some point it also only works for specific enemies or situations where you can sort of justify their not being particularly reactive, but just following a script. Like, a sufficiently complex script gets around a lot of those issues, but at some point a super-complex script just turns into more work than getting a GM to run the enemy.
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Mar 4, 2022 10:38
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Whybird posted:The whole group agree on what seems reasonable. Turns out the mayor's a fae? Eric steps in and weaves it into the ongoing fae plotline he has planned. I think a kingdom has something like this? The issue here I guess is that if Eric’s the guy who’s really into fae mythology, then his role is now to add fae to the game for people who are less into it than him. That’s a responsibility that a GM takes but that not everybody might want to, since it gets into social management beyond just plotting and exploring.
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Mar 4, 2022 12:54
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hyphz posted:I think a kingdom has something like this? On one hand, this is kind of how Command Lore works in Fellowship so I know this works in moderation. Even when your Fellowship game has a cohesive aesthetic, I doubt other people are going to be as into the people you created to play as you are. On the other hand, I don't know it works when you need to do that for everything. At least, not when everyone is simultaneously thinking as a single character and someone planning out a complete story arc. (Then again, writing this made me realize Whybird's suggestion is functionally similar to just running a game with a rotating GM, so maybe I'm overthinking it.)
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Mar 4, 2022 14:50
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Part of the reason I buy and write so many random tables is that I like that aspect of discovery. Not knowing what is coming next, even as the GM, is a lot of fun for me. I have tons of tables that I keep open depending on the game and I use them constantly. Getting really weird results and trying to quickly figure out how they work is really great, especially for lighter games where I don't have to worry about lots of stats or mechanical depth.
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Mar 4, 2022 14:59
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hyphz posted:I think a kingdom has something like this? It's not social management, it's putting things together and finding hooks to get people interested in the things that the others come up with. My Biblefight group had a great time going to the fairy realm and seeing all kinds of weird stuff, or fighting risen Fransisco Franco, or dealing with Evil British Supervillains, despite those being hooks for specific characters, because they had fun relating their characters to whoever's plot was going on at the time. The whole fun of an RPG is collaborative authorship (among other things) and editing each other's work and coming up with fun stuff and how to put it together.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:02
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also because beating the poo poo out of a freshly resurrected Francisco Franco/the toxic masculinity fairy/evil and classist british wizards with the power of anime is always fun and morally correct
Leraika fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 4, 2022 |
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Mar 4, 2022 15:08
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Mates I will level with you - I want to run a game so hard I might even bust out d&d 5ed. I'm that desperate
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Mar 4, 2022 15:15
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Siivola posted:If you close your eyes and pretend it's an OSR game, it'll work out. What OSR game would you recommend for "d&d" fix? I do have Godbound(as far as osr goes) and Soulbound (as far as high fantasy goes)with are both good games, but recently I have been watching a lot of black dice society and similar actual plays, so would like to see what my options are in that corner.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:26
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I couldn't tell you. I've been thinking of getting either Old School Essentials or Whitehack, but my group already plays 5E, we'll be doing Pathfinder soon, and I'm not really interested in teaching them yet another D&D to fight the same orcs in.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:41
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Siivola posted:I couldn't tell you. I've been thinking of getting either Old School Essentials or Whitehack, but my group already plays 5E, we'll be doing Pathfinder soon, and I'm not really interested in teaching them yet another D&D to fight the same orcs in. Five Torches Deep is supposed to be the "OSR for people who already do 5E" system. I'm not sure how well it works in that regard, but the PDF looks spiffy.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:48
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Point of order it could be some kind of 4ed derivative, since I think it is way better game than 5e and my players are already familiar with it. Or as alternative - give me your fantasy go to games.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Five Torches Deep is supposed to be the "OSR for people who already do 5E" system. I'm not sure how well it works in that regard, but the PDF looks spiffy.
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Mar 4, 2022 15:59
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Point of order it could be some kind of 4ed derivative, since I think it is way better game than 5e and my players are already familiar with it. Fellowship, Ryuutama, Lancer with heavy refluffing, Emberwind is the purest 4e you'll probably get unless you want to reskin Lancer...
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Mar 4, 2022 16:11
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Five Torches Deep is supposed to be the "OSR for people who already do 5E" system. I'm not sure how well it works in that regard, but the PDF looks spiffy.
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Mar 4, 2022 16:30
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