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HenryJLittlefinger posted:Carbs only have to be messed with when somebody else hosed them up through uninformed tinkering, neglect, or both, but last time that derail happened in here people got really upset about that so I’ll shut up. CRF300L Rally or regular KLX300 SM or dual sport Both of these have efi and abs and are great dual sports around 6k new. HenryJLittlefinger posted:And I’m not trying to prolong the debate, but I went through this same process on these forums a few years ago and it was explained to me that by insisting on efi I was limiting myself from some brilliant bikes. I learned here that a thoughtfully set carb and unfuckedwith fuel/air delivery requires zero attention. I ended up with bike I love, so this is not looking for a reason to be contrarian or poo poo on someone’s bike search parameters. There’s a lot of misinformation about both efi and abs out there. Besides the DRZ400 variants, what other dual sports (or any motorcycle intended for the road) are carbed nowadays? I think euro5 has pretty much forced efi on everything.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:02
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Russian Bear posted:CRF300L Rally or regular People do still buy used bikes occasionally. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 04:09
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Russian Bear posted:Besides the DRZ400 variants, what other dual sports (or any motorcycle intended for the road) are carbed nowadays? I think euro5 has pretty much forced efi on everything. dr650/xr650. even the lowly klr went to injection.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:12
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Good call! Forgot the bike Slavvy always recommends. Edit: Honda Navi!! Brand new for this year too. Obviously a very different thing than we are talking about here, but just watched the Revzilla daily rider on it.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:29
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Well tuned and accessorized DR650s are getting easier and easier to find for good prices too. In Colorado at least, you don’t have to wait long to find one with the suspension fixed, the can/airbox/jetting set (or the carb upgraded), and a few key farkles like a bigger tank, better seat, and/or a sumo kit. I’m still pretty much over the moon with mine.
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Mar 7, 2022 05:09
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Lol imagine thinking carbs are ”hokey” I was hoping for "you don't believe in Carburettors, do you."
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Mar 7, 2022 05:37
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Just look at the questions thread, it’s wall to wall carb chat as everyone’s carbs keep going wrong. Fuel Injection Just Works.
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Mar 7, 2022 09:58
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It's all a usage case thing. If you keep everything stock, it'll all be fine. If you ride your bike at least once a month in winter, you're gonna be fine. Let it sit in winter, that's where things go wrong. Rejet stuff and things go wrong. Put performance air filters and exhausts on it, and things go wrong. Buy something from an owner who has screwed around it it, and you're hosed. My ugly FZR600 hasn't had carb issues for 2 years despite only seeing light use. It's sat for most of the winter, except for one short trip a month to keep the fuel in the floats fresh. My SV's carb had a revision set 4 years ago and hasn't given any issues since, except for an 'user error' thing: i ride it in winter, but i am too lazy to install the carb heaters it's supposed to have in cold climates. So occasionally when temperatures are near freezing and it's very humid or raining, it'll act up. I kinda avoid riding in those conditions so for that one time i gotta ride in wet almost icy weather... yeah. Even when i got water into the fuel for a few days and didn't discover it until the water was sucked into the carbs on the next ride, it didn't need any special maintenance except for getting the water out of the system. So in short: ride it once a month in winter and you won't have those 'carburetor issues' at all. If you insist on parking your bike for 5 months on end and do absolutely nothing with it, then just go for fuel injection.
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Mar 7, 2022 11:15
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The carb V EFI horse has been beaten to a smelly death but I will say this: make sure that the bike you buy has a fuel system that does what you want it to do regardless of the delivery. Example, I owned a TW200 that was perfect for bonking around at tractor speeds. The offroad riding I do here is deep thick woods with minimal trails at a slow pace. Just ease off the clutch a little bit and it plows along. Wanting more power and better suspension I moved to a WR250X and put dual sport tires on it. However, the fuel delivery sucked. The WR has a notoriously snatchy throttle because of the fuel mapping and I was never able to tune it in just right to the point where I could ride it like the TW200. It would stall out at slow speeds or when going over logs. Thinking I might be doing something wrong or had picked up some bad habit I gave it to a friend and he had the same problem. The bike was fantastic on the street because the rpm never dropped low enough. If it was my only bike I would have kept it, but I already have I am absolutely not saying all EFI systems are like this just that some are known for bad on/off throttle transistion (LOOKING AT YOU YAMAHA).
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Mar 7, 2022 13:20
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LimaBiker posted:
This is kind of an over simplification, I'd clarify it by saying that uninformed rejetting/filter-airbox/exhaust tinkering makes things go wrong. DRZ and DR650 (and I'm sure a lot of other bikes) have a known combination of air/fuel mods that when done correctly work really well. My DR650 came with the standard one (Hayabusa muffler, 3x3+ cut in the airbox, and correct jetting for that amount of increased air movement) and I've never had to adjust a thing, and I often ride at 10,000 feet and up. It even sits for months occasionally and I've never had winter carb woes, but I gather that's kind of an anomaly. But you're right, messing around with those things willy nilly, which most people do, is where it all starts to go wrong. And when someone gets a used bike that a PO has done that to, they almost never go back to stock to sort it out, they just start adding jets and turning screws or putting new cans and pod filters on. That's why the advice is always the same, clean and reset everything to stock rather than experimenting from an already hosed up point.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:33
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Yeah you absolutely can modify the hell out of carbed intakes and they can run just fine when its done intelligently, its when people throw ebay chrome top pod filters onto stock jetting and drill out their baffles that things dont run well. To be fair, EFI wont run great either if you mod the poo poo out of the intake and exhaust. People tend to leave EFI intakes alone more often though.
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Mar 7, 2022 17:35
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haha put pods on efi throttle bodies and see how well it'll work out.
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Mar 7, 2022 18:41
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It is very simplified yeah. But i think it kinda makes sense for folks who are 'afraid' of carbs, who either have bad experience with previous owners screwing with things, or who have done stuff wrong themselves and then didn't manage to unfuck it. Leave it stock, and provided you ride it regularly it'll be fine. I gotta admit, my FZR is slightly screwed. It lacks the exup exhaust valve thingie that is supposed to give more exhaust backpressure at low revs or whatever, idk. It makes the engine surge at low loads below 4000rpm, like when you're trying to quietly putter around a residential area at 30km/h. But that's well into the category of 'the PO tried to be smarter than the manufacturer but failed'.
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Mar 7, 2022 18:56
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I'm just happy that the biggest PO fuckery i had to deal with on my EFI bike is he took the baffling out of the muffler.
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Mar 7, 2022 19:18
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Gorson posted:I am absolutely not saying all EFI systems are like this just that some are known for bad on/off throttle transistion (LOOKING AT YOU YAMAHA). I feel vindicated now for making GBS threads all over the MT-07's throttle.
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Mar 7, 2022 19:27
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There are more and more places where bikes with carbs can’t be sold new and I think it’s reasonable to future proof against any possible future ban or “classic bike” tax. I think I caused the last EFI vs. carb argument and I will at least say I learned a lot from what was said here that time and this time. I am officially a Carb Respecter, even if I’m happy I don’t have to worry about them on my motorcycle and have a mechanic I trust with my carbs for my scooter.
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Mar 7, 2022 19:49
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cursedshitbox posted:haha put pods on efi throttle bodies and see how well it'll work out. Even just sticking a can on makes a lot of efi bikes borderline unrideable, it's a testament to how poo poo most riders are that nobody even notices the surging and horrible snatchiness. LimaBiker posted:It is very simplified yeah. But i think it kinda makes sense for folks who are 'afraid' of carbs, who either have bad experience with previous owners screwing with things, or who have done stuff wrong themselves and then didn't manage to unfuck it. Go half a step up on your needles and you'll probably fix that.
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Mar 7, 2022 19:58
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Slavvy posted:Even just sticking a can on makes a lot of efi bikes borderline unrideable, it's a testament to how poo poo most riders are that nobody even notices the surging and horrible snatchiness. yeuuup. Even the wr250r I had was a little finicky when I first got it. Bone rear end stock bike. It had a manual setting buried in the cluster to adjust its fuel table which cured some of it. When cold it was as pissy as a poorly tuned carb but that was mostly Yamaha's wax bulb cold start device hack. Let it idle for a minute or two and it was fine. It did immediately start after sitting in a storage unit for 2.5 years when I bought it. Jumped it off the truck and took it for a ride with foul gas in it. No 4stroke ever has done that. 2 strokes have stabilizer in the premix, that's cheating. Granted it ran like poo poo but it still ran. It was my first and only injected bike. didn't hate it but it was very much just a riding appliance with lovely suspension. The KTM 990 guys have been converting to the 950 carbs for years to cure surging and snatchy throttle problems. Those that didn't are pulling off the second throttle bodies, screwing with the stock air box or some aftermarket one, and relentlessly loving with mapping to try and get it to run half as good as the 950s do. They also run an unobtainium idle stepper motor that isn't known for its robustness. Slavvy posted:
Try this. If your airbox is bone stock that should cure it.
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Mar 7, 2022 20:23
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I think that if it was that simple, that the previous owner would've already fixed it. The FZR was a forums challenge, 'who can get the best bike for 500 euro in total' (excluding safety critical parts). The PPO did the horrible street fighter conversion that consisted of ruining all the electronics, putting on supermoto style handle bars, and removing the original exhaust and the exup valve. And ignoring the cracked rubber inlet plenum that it had. The PO unfucked most things. He's pretty drat good, on the level of 'able to repair his GF's SV650 that had a broken cam chain tensioner in a foreign country, on the side of the road, with just some tools he had with him. So if something as simple as different needles was the solution, i think it's very likely that he already did that, or already tried that. I could try it some day, but it's not a priority for me. It's gonna get its fairings back first, but in order to do that, i gotta put on a different front brake master cylinder (the current one is from an R6 and won't clear the fairing).
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Mar 7, 2022 20:59
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Whoever hosed with it likely set the same needle height, float height, and jets across the board despite cylinders 2 and3 running hotter than 1 and 4. Should also sync the throttlebodies.. FZaRghs aren't the worst to dial in if you've kept the stock airbox and not cut the round air filter retainer to poo poo. If it has pods, you are on your own. Get a gas analyzer or at minimum an IR temp gun. If changing the needle height doesn't fix it start over. Set your float height. (if you have the tool or a 3d printer this is hella easy) Set the A/F screws. Set the needle heights Sync the TBs. Get out your notebook and a pencil. Take note of how it runs cold and up to temp, not idling in your garage, out in the real world. Use your IR gun to note header and coolant temps. Log that in your notebook. Get idle and main circuits dialed in then target the transitions between them. Rich is soggy, idle will sag, exhaust tip is gonna turn coal black and fast as will the plugs. usually runs better cold than hot. lean is surging, hard starting, idle hangs, pops like hell and it runs hot. Make one change(float height, needle clip, jets) at a time, repeat the above. reading the plugs helps but its a pain in the dick on this bike. You are building an analog fuel table map for the bike on paper. EFI makes this super easy but hey this is carburetors. Exup on mine was long gone, I don't recall it being a total bastard to setup and tune. It had an D&D can from the 80s, some header, and a stock but cut on air box. With the YZF engine there was a huge hassle with its ram air carbs and airbox on the 400 frame so I cobbled a buncha poo poo together with pods and got it running well. That took a while. I haven't had that bike in like 8 years so hindsight is 20/20. Do the fiberglass bodywork, the abs stuff is so friggin brittle. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 21:18
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LimaBiker posted:I think that if it was that simple, that the previous owner would've already fixed it LMFAO stopped reading here sorry
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Mar 7, 2022 23:06
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And with that i mean 'The guy who unfucked everything' and already spent a bunch of time getting it running in a useful way at all. It doesn't have pod filters, that's for sure. Just a big plastic box that connects to the rubber manifold like thingy, which is an absolute BITCH to get back onto the carbs. The ram air system is missing, because there are no fairings for it to connect to. Gonna put that back in its place once i got the fairings  In any case, not gonna touch it. I'm no carburetor tickler. I'll unscrew the plugs to see if they foul.
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Mar 8, 2022 08:46
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Finding myself considering a Scrambler as a n+1. About the same price as a DRZ at the moment, and there are almost no DRZs advertised but loads of Scrambler. Use case: tooling around near home in summer, going to the beach. Looks OK to get my partner on the back for short trips? Desert Sled looks cool but the cheaper ones are Classic or Icon
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Mar 8, 2022 10:22
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Here in carb ban land, I've had a search running for a used DR650 of the correct years (after '96) for half a year now and I've had 0 hits.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:01
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Sounds like it’s time for a fly’n’ride, my friend
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Mar 8, 2022 18:17
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Thanks again everyone for all the info and ideas, which ultimately led me to the Triumph Bonneville T120 I bought this weekend! It ticks almost every box really, really well and seems to be the dream bike I didn't know was out there. It might be a bit big for some of the narrower mountain switchbacks, but my passenger probably shouldn't be subjected to those anyway; I'll see how nimble I feel on it after I've had more time on it.tyrelhill posted:pls post your experience, i am probably going the same route later this year So you know where I'm coming from: the vast majority of my saddle time has been spent on a Suzuki GS500e (~45hp) which I rode quite a bit over 7 years before taking a decade off. I loved the poo poo out of that orange bike. Returned to riding 3 months ago with a vanvan200 which has been a blast within its limitations and a good reintroduction to riding. OKAY THE TRIUMPH T120! Fit: I'm short with about a 29" inseam, as previously posted I'm comfortable with a bike as long as I can touch with the balls of my feet. The T120 fits great with the stock seat, I'm able to balance and plant a foot without any real thought. Coming from the Vanvan, it's really nice to be able to squeeze a tank with my knees again in turns. The knees touch at the lower part of the T120's tank guards still within the useful zone. The weight is more than I'm used to, it's a bit of a beast for me to put onto the center stand or walk it, but the second it's moving it's light as a feather. It's also super planted when in motion and the weight seems to be down low; I was in high winds yesterday going freeway speeds and didn't get so much as nudged by the gusts. Passenger comfort seems to be very good so far, Mrs. Marathe who is even shorter than me is able to board it with minimal gymnastics, and says the pegs are slightly roomier than that of the vanvan, which she also considers comfy enough. The PO installed a rack that doesn't really give her grab rails, so I'm looking at remedying that even though she doesn't feel like she needs them. Most importantly the power delivery which I'm about to get to is very smooth including at low speeds, so for cruising around town there's way less hurk and jerk than one experiences 2up on a vanvan, and so fewer helmet clunkings. "Grunt" has become my favorite new word (maybe because I don't get the intricacies of "power" vs "torque"). Whatever it is the T120 has it everywhere in the power band, all the time, it's the most mind-blowing and awesome thing about this bike IMO. Bear in mind I'm coming from a vanvan that needs to shift out of 1st halfway through turns from a standstill. But you get a choice of gears at a given speed. At highway speeds I can be in 4th, 5th, or 6th, and the difference is basically in how you want the bike to sound (and eat gas), because no matter where I find myself in the RPM range I can rapidly and smoothly gain the same essential amount of speed with the same little twist of the throttle. That's the most interesting part of this to me, despite the absurd abundance and readiness of (power?), a sneeze isn't going to launch me into the rear of the car I'm following (I felt that way on the ZRX, but to be fair to it I'd only ridden all of a couple miles before it had issues. Likewise the brakes are firm and do their job, but aren't hair triggers. The whole experience is extremely mellow when I want it to be, it's perfectly happy lumbering along in town like a cruiser. I expected a longer adjustment period but this bike just feels right for me, responds predictably, is plenty responsive in turns. The main part of the learning curve for me so far has been that if I'm not careful I find myself going about 20mph faster than I think I am. On my first post-purchase ride, to my shame (and the terror of the friend riding behind me), I hit a roundabout going what I thought was a civilized if confident speed, but apparently was going well beyond that and took a little bite out of my left "lean angle indicator" as a result. Can't say I have to check the speedometer on the vanvan much.
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Mar 15, 2022 02:45
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You done good, and that’s what the lean feeler is for.
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Mar 15, 2022 08:43
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I'm glad you like it! There's nothing like getting on a bike and immediately going "THIS Remy Marathe posted:a sneeze isn't going to launch me into the rear of the car I'm following (I felt that way on the ZRX  (I never feel like my Rex is going to take off on me if I sneeze, but that may be because A. I sneeze a lot, and B. I somehow wound up with a pretty disciplined throttle hand after a decade on my previous bike. I actually frequently forget about the travel of the throttle tube and start worrying I'm down on power, until I remember to crack it all the way, which is usually followed by some variety of "oh, ha ha haOOooly gently caress")
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Mar 15, 2022 16:51
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Yeah that assessment of the rex is totally unfair, at that point I was on a very powerful bike for all of 2 miles in my life, in L.A. street traffic, and terrified I might gently caress up someone else's bike. I did not yet know that its fuel delivery was pre-hosed up for me.
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Mar 15, 2022 19:07
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Are demo bikes bad ideas? Are demo bikes of bikes that already seem kinda unreliable double bad ideas?? It even comes with "paneers" and "breaks". I want to replace my Street Triple R with something less awful on the interstate/long trips, now that I don't have to commute. I've been trying different "touring" bikes (well, so far just the Tracer 9 GT and the Super Tenere, neither of which were interesting), but I saw this and thought, hey, that might be neat. I'm used to Triumph levels of weirdness, are Ducs really that much worse?
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Mar 16, 2022 08:24
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They are noticeably less poo poo than triumphs, actually. I have no experience with the v4 but other recent Ducatis I've worked on are all well built and limit their bullshit to special tools stuff when servicing; there's usually no mystery ailments or random out of the blue component failures. The multi v2 is a phenomenal sport tourer imo, otoh never buy a first generation anything.
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Mar 16, 2022 08:40
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If you overload them, do they become sag paneers
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Mar 16, 2022 08:40
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Phy posted:If you overload them, do they become sag paneers 
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Mar 16, 2022 11:52
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They're overall solid bikes, but they have some annoying BS like "service now" warnings that only a dealer or someone with the Ducati service computer can shut off. Undersized batteries/starter wiring, minor fit/finish stuff. Depreciation is ridiculous though
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Mar 16, 2022 17:53
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Phy posted:If you overload them, do they become sag paneers Excellent.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:14
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Phy posted:If you overload them, do they become sag paneers Only on the new FTR
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Mar 16, 2022 18:53
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Phy posted:If you overload them, do they become sag paneers perfection
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Mar 16, 2022 20:30
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Slavvy posted:Excellent. What's up with that avatar?
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Mar 17, 2022 11:37
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I suggested that the only reason people here in nz care so very badly about Ukraine is because it's on the news every night, and there are dire domestic issues to distract from (which the war has exacerbated don't get me wrong, but it's literally the opening fifteen minutes of the 6pm news literally every day), someone who Cares A Lot got upset at this and thought the best way to fight imperialist aggression was spending money to own me. The red text ended up having something about being gay with putin, when I pointed out this was homophobic they immediately updated it with the current text. I don't know what they think a tankie is or why they think I am one, I mostly just really miss my bird watcher tag tbh.
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Mar 17, 2022 19:25
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Slavvy posted:I suggested that the only reason people here in nz care so very badly about Ukraine is because it's on the news every night, and there are dire domestic issues to distract from (which the war has exacerbated don't get me wrong, but it's literally the opening fifteen minutes of the 6pm news literally every day), someone who Cares A Lot got upset at this and thought the best way to fight imperialist aggression was spending money to own me. The red text ended up having something about being gay with putin, when I pointed out this was homophobic they immediately updated it with the current text. I don't know what they think a tankie is or why they think I am one, I mostly just really miss my bird watcher tag tbh. I read that as being gay with puffin at first and was wondering how that worked. Like, is the puffin an accessory? Like a pirate parrot, only you're in drag and have a puffin on your shoulder? Or do you carry it around as a signifier of homosexuality? When did puffins become gay icons?
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Mar 17, 2022 19:36
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