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Most of the Gundam Manga and novels that people want animated would probably suck. Sentinel, Crossbone, Ecole du Ciel, Gaia Gear, they're all included in that list. And I like all of them.
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Mar 8, 2022 01:56
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Plot to assassinate Gihren could be good. Unlikely, though, done it has relatively little action.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:00
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Federation Hooligans? Make it like Godzilla Singular Point where it is a nerd show up front and buries everything in technobabble.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:07
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Fivemarks posted:Most of the Gundam Manga and novels that people want animated would probably suck. Sentinel, Crossbone, Ecole du Ciel, Gaia Gear, they're all included in that list. And I like all of them. Crossbone could work if they revamped the art style I think, though it runs into the problem of Seabook's VA coming down with a slight case of death. Cleretic posted:This is probably because the lowest point for the series was the back end of the period where they hadn't come up with the idea of AU series and were only doing various sequels/prequels/interquels to what's now the Universal Century. I believe it was Victory Gundam that was the final flag before they realized 'this has to change'. And constantly coming up with new universes has treated them pretty well so far, minus a few missteps like AGE. The good thing about new universes is that you can just shuffle off any missteps like AGE into their own weird corner. That said, having a combined timeline CAN lend events more weight if everything fits together coherently, though UC has had uhhhhh mixed results on that front
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Mar 8, 2022 02:21
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tsob posted:I don't think Sunrise have ever taken the cautious approach of "sure, a new show could move less units than a sequel to an existing property". Or, I suppose, if they have we wouldn't know about it, since they'd never announce that. Still, there's been very few direct sequels to existing AUs, and most of those have been rather short forms (OVAs/films), rather than entire new shows. There's few direct sequels because Sunrise's approach is basically generational - any given 'flagship' property is targeting a demographic (say, 12-15 for examples sake) and capturing a new audience while prior shows even when successful are considered legacy properties targeted at their audience which has grown older - while there will always be some crossover each era of Gundam is basically silo'd and continuations get relegated to spin off mangas or non-tv stuff. It's why Universal Century, despite it's longevity and "break glass in case of emergency" status, has never been considered for getting a new TV series - it's seen as 'prestige' or an older audience property, so it gets movies or OVAs.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:25
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Return of Zeon would make for a fun one, if maybe not a particularly deep one
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Mar 8, 2022 02:28
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Crossbone with (a modernised take on) the art-style of F91 could be an interesting experiment.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:33
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Seemlar posted:There's few direct sequels because Sunrise's approach is basically generational - any given 'flagship' property is targeting a demographic (say, 12-15 for examples sake) and capturing a new audience while prior shows even when successful are considered legacy properties targeted at their audience which has grown older - while there will always be some crossover each era of Gundam is basically silo'd and continuations get relegated to spin off mangas or non-tv stuff. It also makes a bit more sense in terms of capturing new audiences. Sure, Gundam Wing was popular for its audience at the time, but as those people age out of the demo and a new crowd ages in, parts of it might not play as well either just by the age of the show or real-world events dating it (I'm pretty sure Wing's 'terrorists with attitude' story probably flew worse to that crowd post-9/11). It can be more of a problem for Gundam than, say, Pokemon, since Gundam goes for some degree of stakes and realism that means you can't just keep putting the same guy in new suits to fight new enemies forever. So why not take notes on what worked about Wing and what didn't, and keep what works for a new show with some new ideas for a new generation? Cleretic fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 02:39
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There was no problem with wing post 9/11. They used it as an excuse to cancel MSG but Wing is so unfocused that the pilots didn't even register as terrorists, and people didn't pay all that much attention to anime in those days
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Mar 8, 2022 02:42
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chiasaur11 posted:By that argument, no media should ever be created, because all of it deviates from an imagined and idealized individual conception to a concrete reality. No, creating the media is fine, it's the unnecessary detail filling in that only tends to denigrate a work. To mangle some Lovecraft, "the greatest Human fear is the fear of the unknown". That doesn't just work with horror though, you might not describe the local Cthullu cause leaving it unspeakable will let the reader fill in the details with their own phobias, but you can also do this with the world building and history. Adding a few evocative elements creates interest and drama that needs to be filled in by the reader. For a positive example the black history in Turn A, we get bits and pieces of what went down with the Turn a and x, the scars on the x, the weapon caches, the suits stuck underground, but we never see them actually duke it out. Same with the Moon in IBO, we know it got hosed up real bad, but how exactly we do not know. For a negative example of this look at the stupid space whale in SEED, introduced to provoke thought on the series, but amounts to only a joke in the end. Sometimes, most of the time, it's better just to leave the speculation. Keep the work forward focused. Flesh out the extremities, the side factions, other characters, bring something new to the table. Conan wouldn't have been as good as it is if Robert Howard had done a story after The tower of the Elephant that showed just how said elephant arrived on earth, or if he had spent his ink on explaining how Aquilonia was founded. Shows need to have mystery, mystique, it gives you something to gnaw on the first time you see the show and the fiftieth. There's no fun in just watching flashing lights on a screen, much better to hear it on spotify, the interest in a work should come from engaging with it. Thinking of it's inner logic, it's characters, it's mysteries, and most importantly trying to fit all the disparate parts together into a cohesive whole. For an intellectual exercise consider how different your viewing experience would be back when Zeta had been airing. You grew up watching MSG, and now you're put into this world that's far bleaker, the Gundam that represented the hope for the future has been coopted by authoritarians that grew out of the same faction you rooted for as a kid, as you go on you see that the Amuro you knew is gone, as is Char, Kai, Hayato everything that seemed so hopeful has backslide into an authoritarian morass of genocide, terror, and hopelessness. And you're forced to make amends with the enemies of the past and form alliances with factions at odds with your own just to survive. And in the end the question you're left with is, "How did this all happen". Was the Trauma from the One Week War so deep, did the Titans start with good intentions and get coopted, Did zeon remnants actually exist that justified the creation of them? You could think about it for hours picking apart scenes and creating you're own idea of how the UC started it's backslide. Now think of the person watching in the Wake of 0083. Instead of all these questions they get answers like. A secret cabal played 5D chess with the dumbest patriots in history, The Titans created themselves because they're evil, and Nina is a warcriminal. Now imagine you're rewatching IBO in the wake of IBO:Calamity Wars. You see the moon, but instead of the mystique, instead of speculation. You know that it was destroyed in the final battle when Rex Hardon detonated the secret Ahab bomb that was never mentioned before to kill the secret MA base on the moon, created by a secret never mentioned cabal that secretly ran the world government. Everyone always thinks they want answers. They don't, the culprit in a mystery novel means nothing. It's the speculation, the discussion, the process that people want to see.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:57
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Better Call Saul is a better show than Breaking bad though so it could work
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Mar 8, 2022 02:58
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nah you're insane
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Mar 8, 2022 03:54
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I like it when the robots fight.
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Mar 8, 2022 05:21
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Marsupial Ape posted:I like it when the robots fight. poo poo, I need to get caught up with Better Call Saul
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Mar 8, 2022 05:22
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Cleretic posted:It also makes a bit more sense in terms of capturing new audiences. Sure, Gundam Wing was popular for its audience at the time, but as those people age out of the demo and a new crowd ages in, parts of it might not play as well either just by the age of the show or real-world events dating it (I'm pretty sure Wing's 'terrorists with attitude' story probably flew worse to that crowd post-9/11). It can be more of a problem for Gundam than, say, Pokemon, since Gundam goes for some degree of stakes and realism that means you can't just keep putting the same guy in new suits to fight new enemies forever. So why not take notes on what worked about Wing and what didn't, and keep what works for a new show with some new ideas for a new generation? Funny you say this because way back when I was first getting into Gundam, Wing was constantly compared (unfavorably) with 00. Celestial Being are unmistakably terrorists and in a setting far closer to the real world., to say nothing of just being an all around much more down-to-earth show.
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Mar 8, 2022 05:44
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Fivemarks posted:Most of the Gundam Manga and novels that people want animated would probably suck. Sentinel, Crossbone, Ecole du Ciel, Gaia Gear, they're all included in that list. And I like all of them. it would be funny if they made a sentinel anime but made an entirely new story and set of characters to get around the licensing
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Mar 8, 2022 06:22
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muike posted:it would be funny if they made a sentinel anime but made an entirely new story and set of characters to get around the licensing Reminds me of how in the profiles for each MS from Sentinel in GBO2, while they include some development history they have to be really vague about the actual events of Sentinel or anyone involved
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Mar 8, 2022 06:41
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NikkolasKing posted:Funny you say this because way back when I was first getting into Gundam, Wing was constantly compared (unfavorably) with 00. Celestial Being are unmistakably terrorists and in a setting far closer to the real world., to say nothing of just being an all around much more down-to-earth show. Oh yeah, they're definitely some kinda terrorist, just with the veneer of a weirder yet clearer M.O. but 00 is also a really good example of how they update this stuff, because it very clearly has a bunch of lessons from Wing, while also being very clearly of a 2006-7 mindset. It's definitely from that era where the war on terror made it frustratingly clear that there were bullshit forever wars going on for no loving reason.
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Mar 8, 2022 07:17
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dogsicle posted:i'm not interested in a blanket retroactive application of the rule, it's something that i'd only think of due to modern production circumstances where full-year shows are not a thing as they were. 3 cours is i think enough for G-Reco to better handle itself and would prevent other issues i've had like the slogs of S2 IBO and ReRise overall. in this world, Try doesn't much exist either lol. yes, Build and Divers series are getting smashed together under those umbrellas because i feel like it. I don't really see how it's a retroactive application to go "it's worked out well in the past, so maybe it's not a good idea to insist it never happen again in the future". Gundam AGE is boring drivel, but as a concept I adore the idea of a generational story about the effects of conflict, how different generations process the conflict, how those generations views interact with and inform each other etc. It could be a singular war, but a series of wars spread over a century or more (akin to UC itself, in fact) with the enemies of one generation being the allies of the next, and how the people who fought or were raised in that battle deal with that, or with the ally of today being the enemy of tomorrow etc. could be great. The difference between it and UC being the fact such a show would intentionally be aiming to tell a broader story with specific links and arcs, rather than them being created over a decade of multiple shows and secondary to the aims of the individual shows. I also don't think it's possible to do that ine two or three cours. When Akihiro Hino was first presenting the ideas for AGE to Sunrise he reportedly wanted 75+ episodes, and was refused them, which is probably just as well seeing as how he seemed to want to waste those extra episodes on things like Asemu and Zehearts schooldays and other pointless poo poo, but I do think you need a longer form (like 4 or more cours) to tell a story about something of that scope; especially if you want to explore the setting (another thing AGE absolutely didn't want to do) and expand the story beyond the bare bones of the plot. Yinlock posted:Crossbone could work if they revamped the art style I think, though it runs into the problem of Seabook's VA coming down with a slight case of death. I don't think it could personally, but mostly because I think Crossbone has kind of a boring story. I know a lot of people love it's lighter atmosphere and more bombastic characters, but I couldn't honestly tell you anything about it beyond a couple of memetic pages that I see posted around a couple of years after reading it. Not because I dislike those things, either in Gundam specifically or in general; I just don't think Crossbone is a particularly good example of it. I do think Tomino's original vision of Crossbone that he passed to Hasegawa could be interesting, but that is a very different vision of the story, with a different cast (well, mostly the fact Tobia doesn't exist), different tone, different plot etc. Tomino himself has long since moved on and frankly, I don't think there's too much point trying to resurrect his vision without him. Also, speaking of Zeonic Scans, one of his latest articles is information on Tomino's Gunboy draft, the story that would eventually become Mobile Suit Gundam. It's interesting reading, and you can see where someone of elements of 0079 were born as well as where some later entries maybe took inspiration (the Bright figure starting out as a woman is possibly what informed Murrue in SEED for instance). It's also fun to muse on where some of it could have gone. Char started out as what seems like a secondary female antagonist, as an example. I imagine Tomino used some of this draft to inform his basic outline for Vifam too, since the setting and story as laid out sounds pretty similar. NikkolasKing posted:Funny you say this because way back when I was first getting into Gundam, Wing was constantly compared (unfavorably) with 00. Celestial Being are unmistakably terrorists and in a setting far closer to the real world., to say nothing of just being an all around much more down-to-earth show. I would never say that Gundam Wing is in any way down to Earth, but I do think it's finale is at least relatively down to Earth compared to that of Gundam 00. Which is kind of funny really, since the two shows are almost an inversion of each other in some ways. Gundam Wing is very melodramatic, and that informs a lot of the action and setting, with everything feeling larger than life from the start but the finale being pretty straight forward and dependent on simple physical phenomena like sword fights and shooting big chunks of rock, while Gundam 00 at least starts with a more mundane setting (though still a very dramatic one where everyone uses each other's full names all the time for maximum dramatic effect) but it's finale is full of magical effects like teleportation and telepathy. tsob fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 10:59
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They should make a Crossbone anime just so people stop asking for a Crossbone anime. Really, it could be a decent set of OVA. Just spruce up the art style and aim Sawano at it.
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Mar 8, 2022 12:04
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Crossbone suffers from what I like to call Fate/Zero syndrome, where people reading spoilers out of context without an official localization or adaptation gives a much larger than life and, frankly, unwarrantedly positive impression of the work in question. Hearing bits and pieces about crossbone out of context makes it sound much, much better than it actually is.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:18
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Pirate Gundams fighting crime syndicates around Jupiter does sound awesome on paper.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 16:25
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Unlike Crossbone Fate Zero is actually good
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Mar 8, 2022 17:03
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if any manga gets an anime adaptation, it should be all the Astray manga
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Mar 8, 2022 17:35
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Astray has gotten so many different segments animated of the years you coulf probably stitch together a few episodes just from that
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Mar 8, 2022 19:28
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tsob posted:I would never say that Gundam Wing is in any way down to Earth, but I do think it's finale is at least relatively down to Earth compared to that of Gundam 00. Which is kind of funny really, since the two shows are almost an inversion of each other in some ways. Gundam Wing is very melodramatic, and that informs a lot of the action and setting, with everything feeling larger than life from the start but the finale being pretty straight forward and dependent on simple physical phenomena like sword fights and shooting big chunks of rock, while Gundam 00 at least starts with a more mundane setting (though still a very dramatic one where everyone uses each other's full names all the time for maximum dramatic effect) but it's finale is full of magical effects like teleportation and telepathy. Well that's 00 Season 2 which might as well be Destiny to 00 Season 1's SEED. I just ruined loving everything, made a pretty good show into the worst and hosed up a ton of characters. Although thinking about insane sequels makes me want that Frozen Teardrop anime we will never get.
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Mar 8, 2022 20:22
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00 S2 sucks but it’s not as bad as destiny. It just feels bad since 00S1 is so much better then vanilla Seed
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Mar 8, 2022 20:36
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00 S2 does real bad by some of it's peeps, but Ribbons is one of the best villains in the series and is a hell of a lot better than the season 1 guy. Season 2 is also the only series working to engage with the core of Gundam instead of just the aesthetics.
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Mar 8, 2022 20:41
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The movie is an interesting idea very poorly done.
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Mar 8, 2022 20:42
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Gaius Marius posted:Season 2 is also the only series working to engage with the core of Gundam instead of just the aesthetics. What do you mean by this?
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Mar 8, 2022 20:47
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Some absolute loving nonsense
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Mar 8, 2022 22:11
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RevolverDivider posted:Some absolute loving nonsense one way or the other it should be an interesting read
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Mar 8, 2022 22:59
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00S2 is...fine, I guess I'd call it? It's not great, and it's not remotely as good as S1, but it's not a horribly bad watch. I think the only thing that comes to mind that it does truly egregiously badly is Allelujah, but Allelujah doesn't really have much of a character to assassinate.
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Mar 8, 2022 23:32
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ninjewtsu posted:one way or the other it should be an interesting read There's no time, off model Zaku is canon! https://twitter.com/g_cucuruzdoan/status/1501319850983145479?t=bgNER1aOUwUUH6L8C1jIuw&s=19
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Mar 8, 2022 23:36
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Kanos posted:00S2 is...fine, I guess I'd call it? It's not great, and it's not remotely as good as S1, but it's not a horribly bad watch. I think the only thing that comes to mind that it does truly egregiously badly is Allelujah, but Allelujah doesn't really have much of a character to assassinate. Pretty sue everybody was upset about what it did with the females, particularly Soma, Louise, Nena and Marina. Mr. Bushido was not a very popular evolution of Graham either to my memory. I admit I only watched it once going on eight years ago now but even when people say it's okay, i never herd any explanations why. What positive changes did it have for the cast?
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Mar 8, 2022 23:41
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No you’re correct all of those characters get assassinated.
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Mar 8, 2022 23:46
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It's been a long time since I watched 00, but... intellectually I can understand people disliking Mister Bushido, but in my heart I can't. Maybe I wouldn't like season 2 as much now compared to watching 00 for the first time as my first non-movie Gundam, but I enjoyed it when I saw it. I do like how season 1, season 2, and A Wakening of the Trailblazer all add up to a single story but have their own pretty distinct identities too; season 1 is the best part, but it's not a case where the rest was that but executed worse.
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Mar 9, 2022 00:02
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NikkolasKing posted:Pretty sue everybody was upset about what it did with the females, particularly Soma, Louise, Nena and Marina. Mr. Bushido was not a very popular evolution of Graham either to my memory. Mr. Bushido is a very goofy, stupid character, but Graham was already leaning that way in the latter half of S1(yelling about surpassing Asura while attacking the Throne Eins, going on a suicide mission with his garbage pile GN Flag for revenge). He actually has a bit of an arc in S2 and his final conflict with Setsuna is a pretty good bit of him learning to let hate and obsession go. Nena's plot sucks and doesn't go anywhere, but Nena is barely a step above villain of the week and is one of the more vile unrepentant monsters in S1 so seeing her fail her life's goal and then die uselessly doesn't really bother me. Soma has some okay moments involving Sergei, but she's also a victim of Allelujah's poo poo writing. Marina did absolutely nothing in S1 besides acting as a sounding board for Setsuna to rant at, and she continues to do absolutely nothing in S2, so no real change for the better or for the worse. Louise's plot is a fairly boring Standard Gundam Cyber Newtype Girl Plot. It at least has some interesting twists like her doing it willingly, I guess, but it's also not really done badly, it's just mostly generic. As for why it's okay, it has a coherent plotline and some cool fight sequences. It's a lot more paint by numbers "the good guys have to beat the comically evil bad guys" than S1, but it executes on the simplified concept fairly decently. Ribbons and Ali are great scenery-chewing villains and the other Innovades are the right level of smugly self superior that seeing them get trashed is entertaining. It has some pretty good iconic setpieces, like the orbital elevator collapse battle and the attack on Memento Mori. In a franchise that has shows like Destiny, IGLOO, and AGE, 00 S2 doesn't even really register on the "holy poo poo this is dire" spectrum. It's like a 6/10 show.
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Mar 9, 2022 00:17
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NikkolasKing posted:Well that's 00 Season 2 which might as well be Destiny to 00 Season 1's SEED. I just ruined loving everything, made a pretty good show into the worst and hosed up a ton of characters. NikkolasKing posted:Well that's 00 Season 2 which might as well be Destiny to 00 Season 1's SEED. I just ruined loving everything, made a pretty good show into the worst and hosed up a ton of characters. There's a reason I advocate for ignoring season 2 and the movie and just treat season 1 as a standalone series so much, it's just a much better experience that way
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Mar 9, 2022 00:45
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Being I'm only partway through 00 season 1, I'm impressed season 2 even can assassinate Louise's character, she's so bafflingly unpleasant in season 1 that I'm not sure how they decided to write her that way and think it was appealing.Gripweed posted:There's no time, off model Zaku is canon! Also, I like the concept of what you're saying, but I don't think I get it. Are you saying the upcoming new UC movie is basing the Zaku design on one of the off-model sequences, because I don't actually see a difference in the build of that Zaku to the normal one. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 00:48
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