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Did Vow today, would be a pretty good raid without the symbol overload but as it is it’s unnecessarily complicated. I feel like it would have worked as well with like, six symbols, Leviathan-style, instead of twenty-six. Also suffers from the problem raids have had narratively where they’re about some new rear end in a top hat who didn’t affect anything until now, leaving major players like Xol and Quria to be taken out in a playlist strike. I can’t even begin to tell you how disappointed I was when we finally got to raid in the Deep Stone Crypt, which had been teased for years and was one of the biggest most mysterious locations in the lore, only for the final boss to be a meme.
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Mar 8, 2022 11:02
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Bad Munki posted:Ha, they forgot to remove the "Spider, a vendor on the Tangled Shore" loading screen tip. Just thought I'd share. life_source posted:Ghost Fragments are likewise unchanged. I saw an Advanced Features one that mentioned settings and locations that no longer existed too
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Mar 8, 2022 11:58
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Pirate Jet posted:Did Vow today, would be a pretty good raid without the symbol overload but as it is it’s unnecessarily complicated. I feel like it would have worked as well with like, six symbols, Leviathan-style, instead of twenty-six. The problem with raids is that it's still an activity undertaken by a relatively small number of the overall playerbase, and you don't want to put major story beats behind an activity with such a small demographic. Kingsfall is the only exception I can think of. Raids have always been part of the deep lore instead of the immediate story at hand. That's why everyone absolutely geeked out over the pyramid, the stuff inside it is a cornucopia for the lore nerds, myself included Perhaps eventually one day Bungie will try to do an 'LFR' version of raids, where the mechanics have been vastly simplified so that matchmaking can be done for them which means it's ok to put major story beats back in raids once more. It could even act as a tutorial or primer for when players eventually want to do the raids at normal difficulty. Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 12:42
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Raidsecrets found this little detail on the last boss of the raid:
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Mar 8, 2022 14:32
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:The problem with raids is that it's still an activity undertaken by a relatively small number of the overall playerbase, and you don't want to put major story beats behind an activity with such a small demographic. Kingsfall is the only exception I can think of. I didn’t play Destiny 1 but Last Wish is a massive component of the Forsake storyline and our actions inside and defeating Riven have had far-reaching impacts across the entire game for years.
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Mar 8, 2022 14:34
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I think I did everything but the initial payload part of the raid? I started at the encounter with the 4 totems where you need to figure out which totem has the 3 symbols, then shoot them quickly (after going into rooms to figure out which symbols you are looking for.) Honestly that encounter might be my least favorite or maybe the hardest one for me to deal with the symbols. The later encounters where you're just looking for the symbol in common between two sets felt more manageable. Also, usually someone else could do it.
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Mar 8, 2022 15:16
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Perhaps eventually one day Bungie will try to do an 'LFR' version of raids, where the mechanics have been vastly simplified so that matchmaking can be done for them which means it's ok to put major story beats back in raids once more. It could even act as a tutorial or primer for when players eventually want to do the raids at normal difficulty.
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Mar 8, 2022 15:32
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Bungie’s solution to the story beat problem is the cutscene that plays for everyone after a world first clear. Forsaken did this too
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Mar 8, 2022 15:41
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Pirate Jet posted:Did Vow today, Zedsdeadbaby posted:The problem with raids is that it's still an activity undertaken by a relatively small number of the overall playerbase, and you don't want to put major story beats behind an activity with such a small demographic. Kingsfall is the only exception I can think of. In D2 Leviathan was arguably just about entertaining Calus, and my knowledge of the raids gets hazy with the two leviathan mini raids, but then Last Wish is about stopping a taken ahamkara, Garden is (again ? because I wasn't playing at the time) and DSC is trying to stop a contingency plan involving Europa getting nuked. And the new raid is a darkness weeb who wants to take Savathûn's throne world and raise a new worm / scorn army with it. Yes they all contain a lot of hints at backstory and cool lore, but the boss of most of them has been a huge threat that would gently caress things up massively if not dealt with. I kind of wish they'd code it so that it does a speech check and if you haven't finished [raid] it says "when guardians killed [boss]", and if you have finished [raid] it says "when you killed [boss]." But that would be a ton of extra work, so instead every time Zavala bigs me up I get weird ludonarrative dissonance over having done no such thing. Zedsdeadbaby posted:It could even act as a tutorial or primer for when players eventually want to do the raids at normal difficulty. Also as far as raid tasters that let casuals like me learn the story, Preservation is a fantastic attempt at this. I loved exploring, getting a go on the new wish wall, getting bits of lore, seeing the cool environment they'd designed. I love everything about not just the mission, but also the sentiment it expresses just by existing. The one thing I'm still not clear on is how the time travel anomalies all over Mars fit in, but I haven't finished the Rhulk lore books or all of the conspiracy board quests yet. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 16:27
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I've mentioned this before in this thread but has anyone noticed if Destiny 2 runs worse for them since the Raid was introduced? My laptop have a few years on it but it should reach the recommended specs or close to it at least.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:39
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Sylphosaurus posted:I've mentioned this before in this thread but has anyone noticed if Destiny 2 runs worse for them since the Raid was introduced? My laptop have a few years on it but it should reach the recommended specs or close to it at least. Its not the raid, the performance issues started with Shadowkeep and they just keep getting worse.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:50
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Mill Village posted:Its not the raid, the performance issues started with Shadowkeep and they just keep getting worse.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:56
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IIRC a new memory leak was introduced in TWQ which has made it markedly worse, try restarting your machine when performance starts to tank
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Mar 8, 2022 17:01
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Bust Rodd posted:IIRC a new memory leak was introduced in TWQ which has made it markedly worse, try restarting your machine when performance starts to tank
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Mar 8, 2022 17:02
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Pirate Jet posted:Also suffers from the problem raids have had narratively where they’re about some new rear end in a top hat who didn’t affect anything until now, leaving major players like Xol and Quria to be taken out in a playlist strike. I can’t even begin to tell you how disappointed I was when we finally got to raid in the Deep Stone Crypt, which had been teased for years and was one of the biggest most mysterious locations in the lore, only for the final boss to be a meme. tbh I think that the raid tied in better to the campaign than DSC did -- in BL we killed Eramis, and then it was like, 'I guess we go to the DSC now'? While in witch queen, there was a pretty long conversation in Wellspring before the raid unlocked talking about how Savathun had sealed the nearby Pyramid, but the seal was getting weaker. There's at least a chain of events here that lead into each other naturally: (We kill Savathun) -> (her seal on Rhulk weakens) -> (Mara notices the Pyramid because of the weakening seal) -> (She tells us and we do the raid).
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Mar 8, 2022 17:05
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Roman posted:The Division 2 actually did this with "Discovery Mode" which were matchmade babby's version of their raids. People were still mad because they didn't drop the raid exclusive exotics. Division 2 players REALLY did not like the lack of raid matchmaking lol. Div has some WILD raids too but it's definitely hard to mix ezmode with raid exclusives (from a 'fairness' perspective). Imo let people run both each week for a chance at a drop - encourages 'pros' to dip into the pubby pool.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:08
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Maybe it was different in the week to week storyline stuff, but as someone who just did all of Beyond Light in the last month Deep Stone Crypt is mentioned MAYBE one time and none of the characters inside of it come up at all. The entirety of Europa and the Campaign focus more on Darkness and Pyramids is than anything else, and absolutely EVERYONE thought the Clovis AI Ultraman robot would show up to slap us around and instead the ultimate raid boss of DSC is a faceless hovertank with no lore. It’s understand why people like DSC (the space walk and crashing to Earth!) but it’s a lovely raid with bad lore and I think Vow is pretty cool. I got 4/6 chests last night, and my group came really close to beating the 3rd encounter, but my raid leader would respond to any suggestion I had by just reexplaining the entire fight and all the mechanics in detail instead of responding to what I was saying so it don’t really feel like we were adapting to any difficulty, just bruteforce jamming the mechanics until we got lucky.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:11
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I kind of wish they'd code it so that it does a speech check and if you haven't finished [raid] it says "when guardians killed [boss]", and if you have finished [raid] it says "when you killed [boss]." But that would be a ton of extra work, so instead every time Zavala bigs me up I get weird ludonarrative dissonance over having done no such thing. They've done it many times in the past, strikes that mention big names would get different dialogue based on the stuff you've done. There was also the Drifter vs Vanguard thing a few years ago. But when it happens it fits in so seamlessly it's hard to tell if it's custom dialog or everyone got the same thing. Like there's a line in the moon strike listing off the stuff you've killed (omnigul, crota, oryx) that I'm not sure is different for new players. But it would be an obvious place for it.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:18
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What's the source of the Most Players Don't Raid myth/meme? Raids are some of the most popular and iconic destiny content! Every expansion is ultimately ranked based on how good or bad its raid is
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Mar 8, 2022 17:20
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Bust Rodd posted:Maybe it was different in the week to week storyline stuff, but as someone who just did all of Beyond Light in the last month Deep Stone Crypt is mentioned MAYBE one time and none of the characters inside of it come up at all. The entirety of Europa and the Campaign focus more on Darkness and Pyramids is than anything else, and absolutely EVERYONE thought the Clovis AI Ultraman robot would show up to slap us around and instead the ultimate raid boss of DSC is a faceless hovertank with no lore. It was extremely easy to miss or not make the connection, but there was a cutscene in the middle of the campaign where Eramis says “[not-yet-exofied] Atraks, go to the crypt and prepare the body.” ETA: the Deep Stone Crypt was mentioned in a few lore books and also got a shout out in one of Cayde’s stash tapes in the original Ace of Spades quest. xzzy posted:Like there's a line in the moon strike listing off the stuff you've killed (omnigul, crota, oryx) that I'm not sure is different for new players. But it would be an obvious place for it. It’s no different, I get that line more often than any other and haven’t been playing long enough to get the “veteran” dialogue otherwise. PERMACAV 50 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 17:22
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the source of the Most Players Don't Raid myth/meme? Raids are some of the most popular and iconic destiny content! Every expansion is ultimately ranked based on how good or bad its raid is We have hard numbers (or at least pretty solid estimates based on API returns) for what fraction of the player base has ever participated in a raid; I can’t find them right now (phone at work) but IIRC it’s well below a majority Expansions are ranked and raids are considered iconic by the active unified community, there are millions of players that aren’t in this community and don’t raid
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Mar 8, 2022 17:26
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 This post is from 2 years ago, I can’t imagine DSC moved the needle too much. Essentially, if you’ve completed 10 raids EVER then your in the top 1/3 of Destiny raiders. If you’ve completed 30 raids, then your in the top 10%. I imagine at that point you hit the same kind of breakpoints because if someone of over 30+ clears then they probably raid every week same as everyone else in that bracket. The difference between a casual who raids every week with his friends and Datto raiding 3x a week is much smaller than the gap between the casual weekly raider and the average Destiny player.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:26
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the source of the Most Players Don't Raid myth/meme? Raids are some of the most popular and iconic destiny content! Every expansion is ultimately ranked based on how good or bad its raid is Usually from trophy/achievement information. Even D1 after all this time is sitting at only 19% of people finishing a raid.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:27
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It’s the same in any other game. If it doesn’t have in-game matchmaking, chances are the bulk of the player base will simply never see it.
Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 17:30
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I don’t remember when it happened but Bungie definitely made a statement about how when they added matchmaking to Nightfalls suddenly half the player base started getting those pinnacles overnight. drat I just looked it up, I am Platinum IV with 112 raid clears… 40 of them being Leviathan 
Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 17:31
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Bust Rodd posted:I don’t remember when it happened but Bungie definitely made a statement about how when they added matchmaking to Nightfalls suddenly half the player base started getting those pinnacles overnight. Like we’re a bit of an outlier here on the forums but the simply reality is that a lot of people, and I mean A LOT of people, simply play the game as presented in the game. It’s loving insanity for something like Destiny 2, but yeah I’ll bet you money a good chunk of the playerbase still goes to the tower to manage their vault and simply just roll form matchmake activity to matchmake activity with the fun guns they’ve found. And yes, they have NO IDEA about armor mods.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:34
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Those numbers always seem to include anyone that's ever actually launched the game. I'd be curious to see what that percentage looks like if they filtered out people that played for 5 minutes, died to the first dreg they saw, and uninstalled. Still lower than you'd think though. For me, it has been years since I've had both time and opportunity to run a raid.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:35
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haveblue posted:We have hard numbers (or at least pretty solid estimates based on API returns) for what fraction of the player base has ever participated in a raid; I can’t find them right now (phone at work) but IIRC it’s well below a majority Turra posted:Usually from trophy/achievement information. Even D1 after all this time is sitting at only 19% of people finishing a raid. If there are good hard numbers I would be very curious to see them! Trophy and achievement information are a big trap, though. Resident Evil 7 shows 89% completion for "She's Alive", the achievement you get for Pressing A on the main menu Destiny 1 has 21% completion for running The Taken King campaign, so raiding and playing the campaign share the same popularity by this metric Lightgg offers some good data 49% of D2 guardians have unlocked Zealot's Reward (GoS) 54% have Succession (DSC) 65% have Fatebringer (VoG) Hell, 50% have One Thousand Voices! Per Warmind/activity, about 16% of guardians who are logged in right this very moment are raiding, making it the third most populous mode after Seasonal Activity & Patrol
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Mar 8, 2022 17:45
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Isn’t Light.GG an aggregate of players who submit their profiles, not of Destiny 2 as a whole? So you’re only drawing from enfranchised players plugged in enough to use 3rd party sites and not from the general player base? You’re gonna get a hugely distorted statistical image if so. I’m sorry but you’re OUT OF YOUR FRIGGIN MIND if you think half of the D2 population has cleared Last Wish enough for 1KV
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Mar 8, 2022 17:48
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Does Light.gg tell you anything besides who uses light.gg? Like I just loaded it up and it says I've completed 9% of the collection for Witch Queen and am the 12,644th ranked player. If <15k people are playing witch queen then Bungie is in some serious trouble.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:48
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No, I'm not saying Lightgg is the singular accurate tome. I think it has the opposite problem as Destinytracker (which tracks all 24M people who have launched Destiny while only about 1M play per day), in that it only tracks data for particularly active players. The true Raiding Rates for active players are going to be between the two; I'd wager significantly closer to the Lightgg side of things, due to survivorship bias. People who don't raid don't stick around as long!
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Mar 8, 2022 17:50
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:No, I'm not saying Lightgg is the singular accurate tome. I think it has the opposite problem as Destinytracker (which tracks all 24M people who have launched Destiny while only about 1M play per day), in that it only tracks data for particularly active players. No it’ll be closer to the other side because seriously if you think the majority of the playerbase uses outside resources to play this game outside of maybe a youtube video you’re insane.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:52
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People who try to raid and fail, maybe. There are a vast number of players who never try, and we’re not aware of them because we don’t interact with them outside the odd matchmade activity session
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Mar 8, 2022 17:53
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https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2874-destiny Mouse over a stat to get the real number, the first number is people who use the website. For TTK it has 25% campaign completion and 8.5% finishing Kings Fall. The 19% was for any raid completion ever in D1. 5% did Wrath.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:53
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:No it’ll be closer to the other side because seriously if you think the majority of the playerbase uses outside resources to play this game outside of maybe a youtube video you’re insane. Mental health is not a diss, yo But yes I would wager that the majority of active destiny players use outside resources. The majority of inactive destiny players certainly don't! Kalli posted:I dip in for a new season / expansion, play for a month or two and then dip out until the next. Yes! This is exactly what I mean! Players who don't pursue outside resources or participate in pre-made activities are less likely to remain Active, like forums user Kalli! GoGoGadgetChris fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 17:53
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I suspect I'm probably closer to the average player. I dip in for a new season / expansion, play for a month or two and then dip out until the next. I've never been in a premade group let alone a raid, but have played destiny off and on since it came out. I didn't know the app existed or Light.gg until I read the posts talking about restarting this thread when Witch Queen came out.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:53
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There’s a reason that the biggest Destiny 2 YouTubers even today still take time out of their videos to advocate for DIM, most Destiny 2 players literally do not know it exists.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:57
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Turra posted:Usually from trophy/achievement information. Even D1 after all this time is sitting at only 19% of people finishing a raid. D1 however has a 'complete any raid' achievement which is at about 20% of players, and that includes Crota; a notoriously short, relatively easy raid which has been variously completed solo, blinfolded and with a rock band drum controller. It's very easy to carry multiple people though it without them having to learn the mechanics other than 'stand here and shoot mans.' It's also very easy to get to max light thanks to the ongoing age of triumph, which makes it much easier to survive raids. Either way, that's 80% of the playerbase who've never completed any raid in the Destiny franchise, and that's going by the most forgiving interpretation of the stat. Bandire posted:Those numbers always seem to include anyone that's ever actually launched the game. I'd be curious to see what that percentage looks like if they filtered out people that played for 5 minutes, died to the first dreg they saw, and uninstalled.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:57
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Bobby Deluxe posted:so there's no real reason for f2p players to attempt it. they couldn't even if they wanted to
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Mar 8, 2022 17:58
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Bust Rodd posted:There’s a reason that the biggest Destiny 2 YouTubers even today still take time out of their videos to advocate for DIM, most Destiny 2 players literally do not know it exists. I gotta say I don’t think I’ve ever seen this happen, but it could also be it goes right over my head because I’ve used dim for years.
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