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freebooter posted:I've seen this floating around but what's the actual justification behind that? We have phones right? Or is it that they don't want to make a big announcement about helping NSW while in WA (which massively misjudges the parochialism, nobody is going to begrudge flood aid to any other Australians anywhere in the country) hes pacing the announcaables
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Mar 17, 2022 10:37
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rudd should run for fairfax
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Mar 17, 2022 10:39
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bell jar posted:Why is anyone even voting Labor federally You think the LNP has been doing better for the country/its people or is this an accelerationism thing?
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Mar 17, 2022 10:46
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they don't deserve to win, or even be a party anymore
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Gentleman Baller posted:You think the LNP has been doing better for the country/its people or is this an accelerationism thing? it's a vote greens/other socialist party please thing and while I agree with it in theory, it very much depends on your electorate. If your vote for labor can potentially impact the outcome, absolutely do it, otherwise I reckon give your dollar or whatever a primary vote gets to other socialist party/greens.
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Mar 17, 2022 10:48
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Lets see if Bill Shorten can lose another election for Labor I guess
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Mar 17, 2022 10:53
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Janitor Ludwich IV posted:it's a vote greens/other socialist party please thing Ahh right, my bad. My facebook feed has coloured my readings too much I guess. Socialist friend telling people to exhaust their senate vote without Labor and such.
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Mar 17, 2022 10:58
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thatbastardken posted:Ross Vasta isn't a big spender Nobody in this area is
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Mar 17, 2022 11:02
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Gentleman Baller posted:Ahh right, my bad. My facebook feed has coloured my readings too much I guess. Socialist friend telling people to exhaust their senate vote without Labor and such. Which is loving stupid. The Overton Window is a thing. Even if you hate Labor it would be crazy (assuming you lean left) to not concede they are at least better than the Libs. And even if you don't think they are better than the Libs, at least them being in instead can move debate further left.
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Mar 17, 2022 11:48
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I'm voting for albo
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Mar 17, 2022 11:56
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I don't think Labor are better or worse than the Libs, they are exactly the same from a policy and government perspective, which is entirely the problem.
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Mar 17, 2022 12:30
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Like if you are voting Labor over the Liberals solely "because they're better than the Libs", you're still living in 2010, their only attraction right now is that they aren't the guy in charge
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Mar 17, 2022 12:31
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JBP posted:I'm voting for albo Finally got sick of living in the scray?
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Mar 17, 2022 13:01
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Solemn Sloth posted:Finally got sick of living in the scray? I just vote for the leader I don't care who the minion is, radio talkback caller.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:02
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pretty hyperbolic, you could probably make a convincing argument that they have similar policies, at a stretch maybe very similar policies in certain areas but reality doesn't really line up with saying they are exactly the same, if you really think their only attraction is that they are not the guy in charge that would suggest you see the election as a battle between personalities and colours rather than policies and the future of the country, which really means you're indifferent to a labor or liberal government, and I honestly don't believe that's true. I'd also say that a battle between personalities and colours is probably the preferred competition for the LNP and big money.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:03
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Labor is demonstrably less bad than Liberal for whatever it's worth. Vote for whichever commie party you think is a goer tho their votes will end up with Labor anyway so who cares.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:10
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JBP posted:Labor is demonstrably less bad than Liberal for whatever it's worth. Vote for whichever commie party you think is a goer tho their votes will end up with Labor anyway so who cares. Depends on the electorate and also if it's the senate or house of reps. House of reps, most likely your vote ends up with labor unless you coin toss the LNP vs Labor because they are exactly the same Senate.. not so much, your vote can be instantly gassed if you pick wrong
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Mar 17, 2022 13:13
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Janitor Ludwich IV posted:Depends on the electorate and also if it's the senate or house of reps. I manually fill in the senate so a scrutineer has to go home later.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:19
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the example they give you ont he AEC is a bit simplistic and doesn't explain how it works when you have all your top preferences as people who get over the quota, but based on the info there, the short of it is, your vote counts more if you manage to pick a winner first, and if there's still seats left and no one over the quota, your second preference gets a surplus value from your vote added to their first preferences. It also doesn't go in depth about above/below the line and how that works. The biggest loser doesn't get eliminated until after this surplus vote fuckery and only if there's still undecided seats left, so lol if you voted for the socialist sex workers pistol club party and they never get redistributed. Maybe there's a 1000 page manual somewhere. It seems like a lot of fun to count.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:25
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JBP posted:I manually fill in the senate so a scrutineer has to go home later. I had a "How to vote" volunteer alarmed that I filled every loving box on that senate sheet.
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Mar 17, 2022 13:37
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I've never talked to one of the how to vote people, I'm afraid they'll engage me in political discourse if I tell them I have opinions
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Mar 17, 2022 13:40
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labor are uninspiring and mediocre but there's not no difference between them & the libs. don't think they're quite as useless as say, uk labour or the us democrats yet - we're not at the point where they're completely incapable of governing even when in power, or are only interested in left-bashing as much as possible. the two big dangers for a labor government are the small target campaign translates into total lack of ambition even when in power, or it's a very narrow victory and the senate ends up completely unworkable (if labor wins with a very small margin then a scenario where coalition + one nation is a senate majority is pretty likely) like if people want to reject electoralism totally then ok if that's what you want just don't vote but engaging just enough to put libs over labor out of spite from some sort of left perspective, or only voting for some minor socialist party in the senate etc. is totally incoherent - don't think anyone should be voting 1 labor but that sort of stuff is the worst of both worlds
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Mar 17, 2022 13:54
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Intoluene posted:I had a "How to vote" volunteer alarmed that I filled every loving box on that senate sheet. Don't they understand how satisfying it is to rank One Nation as number 100+?!
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Mar 17, 2022 13:56
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The hardest part of numbering every box is how to decide which of the far right shitbirds goes last... Also my HoR electorate is generally so bad that the greens HTV has libs in #3
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Mar 17, 2022 14:15
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The uspol thread a while ago was replete with people talking about how they weren't going to vote for Biden in the election even in the face of a possible Trump reelection and even while acknowledging the existential threat to the concept of American democracy and untold suffering that it would entail, because Biden wasn't sufficiently left enough. People talking about acting as a spoiler for Labour because the aren't sufficiently left or under the illusion that they are indistinguishable from the libs need to get a loving grip. Labour isn't headed by a theocratic nutjob who believes he can and should practice laying on hands on his constituents, and Labour has not spent ages trying to formally codify the right to use religion as a shield against consequences for bare faced bigotry. Preference Greens first, or whatever other worthy party you feel embodies your leftist ideology best, but if you try to use an ideological excuse to preference the horrendously lovely major party that removes barriers to the bullying of trans kids in schools ahead of the kinda lovely major party that doesn't then you need to pull your head out of your rear end and think about the real world impacts of your petulant stand on principal, and if you want to opt out of influencing the outcome of the election when poo poo like this hangs in the balance then you're worse than a loving Centrist.
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Mar 17, 2022 14:23
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Labor is not as bad as the Liberals, no. But it still has a substantial right faction that is basically the same as the moderate wing of the Liberals. And like any major political party in our Murdoch-owned hell dimension, it is often held hostage by that right wing. In opposition there's a lot of bad things they've waved through without fuss. Plus they have a history of punching down and getting mad at the Greens (and other left parties) around elections. This really doesn't help them seem like an alternative. Also Albanese has been a pretty lacklustre opposition leader.
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Mar 17, 2022 14:43
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Animal Friend posted:Also Albanese has been a pretty lacklustre opposition leader. To be fair in the media environment of this country and in the knowledge that governments lose elections rather than oppositions win them, Albanese doing absolutely loving nothing may not be a terrible strategy.
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Mar 17, 2022 14:46
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bill shorten probably lost because of franking credits and negative gearing so yes, just point out the governments failures and don't say poo poo about your policies in the media specifically. Leave that to a medium that isn't actively hostile to you.
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Mar 17, 2022 14:48
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Janitor Ludwich IV posted:I've never talked to one of the how to vote people, I'm afraid they'll engage me in political discourse if I tell them I have opinions As a weary veteran how to vote hander-outer for the greens i never was the one engaging in any kind of political discourse it was always people with brain worms engaging me about dumb poo poo and me less and less politely telling them to gently caress off as i got older.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:23
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Tomberforce posted:To be fair in the media environment of this country and in the knowledge that governments lose elections rather than oppositions win them, Albanese doing absolutely loving nothing may not be a terrible strategy. Janitor Ludwich IV posted:bill shorten probably lost because of franking credits and negative gearing so yes, just point out the governments failures and don't say poo poo about your policies in the media specifically. Leave that to a medium that isn't actively hostile to you. he could have slam dunked on Morrison over the whole RAT thing but it was mush-mouthed half-responses about affordability for a week until Labor said they should be free. It's not just him playing small-target in a hostile media environment.
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Mar 17, 2022 15:53
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Albo is a bad opposition leader. What with his mealy mouthed centrism and lack of anything resembling charisma or leadership. But ScoMo is a worse PM. With his hateful fundie bigotry, his smug attempts at populism, his carefully crafted, (yet totally inept), public persona, and his lack of anything resembling competence, courage, or worth as a human being.
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Mar 17, 2022 22:58
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I don't think ScoMo is a good PM by any metric -- but he's certainly not a bad PM in the vein of Abbott. I don't think Albo would be bad, but he wouldn't be good either. Would he be better than ScoMo? Maybe, maybe not, it's hard to tell. He's capable of doing all the exact same poo poo as ScoMo but showing empathy about it. If that's all the difference, then I don't really care which person is in the hot seat. I live in Tim Wilson's electorate, and there's some independent campaign going on here, so it's probably going to be Greens/Leftist -> Independent -> ALP/Libs for me. It would be nice if we could deprive the two major parties of at least some seats this election.
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Mar 17, 2022 23:28
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scomo absolutely ate poo poo multiple times in his term when faced with problems that required leadership. Unless you're legit arguing Albo would have been just as bad that's a loving lol from me
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Mar 17, 2022 23:42
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bell jar posted:I don't think ScoMo is a good PM by any metric -- but he's certainly not a bad PM in the vein of Abbott. I don't think Albo would be bad, but he wouldn't be good either. Would he be better than ScoMo? Maybe, maybe not, it's hard to tell. He's capable of doing all the exact same poo poo as ScoMo but showing empathy about it. If that's all the difference, then I don't really care which person is in the hot seat. Holy poo poo what a bad take.
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Mar 17, 2022 23:44
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abigserve posted:scomo absolutely ate poo poo multiple times in his term when faced with problems that required leadership. Unless you're legit arguing Albo would have been just as bad that's a loving lol from me I don't think that Albo would piss off to Hawaii, he'd be very empathetic about all the problems that require leadership. I also don't think that Albo would raise JobSeeker even temporarily though, so swings and roundabouts I guess? They're both poo poo people, and poo poo leaders. E: vvv what would you say ScoMo has done that is bad? Like actively bad? Instead of just bumblefuck incompetence? vvv bell jar fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 17, 2022 |
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Mar 17, 2022 23:54
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a smrt person posted:ScoMo is not a bad PM. Fucken lol. Also, lmao.
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Mar 17, 2022 23:55
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quote:Hillsong’s wall of silence points to a brewing scandal — which may be about to break https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/03/18/hillsong-church-crisis-rumour/
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Mar 18, 2022 00:04
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the small target strategy is sensible politics, unfortunately, i don't have a problem that they're doing it, especially after last time. the issue i do have is them caving on things they absolutely didn't need to cave on - committing to keeping the high-end tax cuts was ridiculous! & of course it's well established that some of the right wanted to totally cave on the religious discrimination bill too. albanese has been fine about actually attacking the government when it matters though - took a little bit on RATs but let the government make fools of themselves and landed the blow fine. if you remember in 2007 rudd was yelling about being more of an economic conservative than howard and mirroring most of his policies beyond the most blatantly unpopular like workchoices. things could be much worse in terms of rhetoric. bell jar posted:I also don't think that Albo would raise JobSeeker even temporarily though, so swings and roundabouts I guess? labor has repeatedly committed to increasing jobseeker, they've just refused to commit to any specific number - which is irritating, at least make some vague commitment there like "no one should live in poverty in this country". there are plenty of reasons to be mad at labor but please have some real reasons instead of "labor would never increase jobseeker" when that's one thing they have actually committed to. even if the obvious worry is that the figure they come up with in government won't be enough, be mad about that. come on lih fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 00:06
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bell jar posted:E: vvv what would you say ScoMo has done that is bad? Like actively bad? Instead of just bumblefuck incompetence? vvv Continued to undermine renewable energy rollouts. Continued to keep children locked up in immigration detention. Initially supported Palmer in his Covid bs. hosed up the bushfire recovery response. Is loving up the flood response. The only real piece of legislation they tried to get through this parliament was to enshrine religions as having extra rights to discriminate. Hurt diplomatic relations with France through the subs fuckup. Led a government with an appalling attitude towards the sexual abuse and harassment of women. Has led a government that has been unnecessarily antagonistic towards China. Senor Tron fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 00:27
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bell jar posted:I don't think that Albo would piss off to Hawaii, he'd be very empathetic about all the problems that require leadership. I also don't think that Albo would raise JobSeeker even temporarily though, so swings and roundabouts I guess? They're both poo poo people, and poo poo leaders. https://www.mdavis.xyz/govlist/ Take your pick.
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Mar 18, 2022 00:53
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Also the tax cuts have probably undermined things for a very long time for basically no benefit
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Mar 18, 2022 00:58
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