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Saxophone
Sep 19, 2006


ate poo poo on live tv posted:

Yea ultimately it depends on what kind of game you want to make. If you are making a class-based Role-playing game where the story changes based on whether you start as a warrior or a mage, then it's completely appropriate to lock-off equipment from the respective classes purely for gameplay/design reasons.

If it's an open world game like Elder Scrolls or Elden Ring or whatever, then sure let the player go nuts and eventually get 100 in all stats, mastery of all weapons, etc. no big deal.

There are legitimate cases for both decisions was my only point.

Fair point, and that was probably a bit smarmy on my part so my bad.

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sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



jisforjosh posted:

Growing your character to be able to use new abilities/items is a cornerstone of roleplaying games so I'm not sure how it's bad or dumb.

For me, unless something is hidden or gate kept behind some story related item or boss, there's nothing fun about having equipment on my character I can't use because my character's person Excel sheet didn't have the right layout. Back to my Elden Ring example, I got bogarted by the game when I found a Whip. I was stoked finding it but confused because I couldn't use it, so, I waited until I had enough XP to level up to use it. I didn't grind because that poo poo is boring, I just leveled myself up naturally by exploring. By the time I got to use it, it was fun to use but I quickly found myself going back to my Broadsword and only using the Whip on occasion since I like the Broadsword moves more. It was literally more exciting picking it up than it was using. Absolutely nothing about the game would change if I could just equip it right off of the cuff, mess around with it and see if I even like the drat thing, other than the game being more fun. Knowing that it wasn't as interesting to use as I had hoped as soon as I got it wouldn't have been as disappointing. Put some severe damage scaling on the weapon so can go, "Hmm... I kinda like this moveset, maybe I should specc to get its damage up." Instead of, "Heh, just wasted several levels on something I didn't really like! Time to respecc, again, and get those points back."

It adds nothing to the experience for me having to specc properly for a certain weapon or build.

For a multiplayer game, or a co op title where you have a specific role, then yeah, I get that. You don't want everyone to be a jack of all trades, but this is a single player title where I don't have a role to play other than to have fun so if I want to be a sword and shield using knight then switch to caster wielding a mace or whip from one minute to the next without having to jump through hoops, let me.

Imagine if all weapons in BOTW, not just the Master Sword, where locked behind you having enough Stamina, Health or a combo of both stats, the game would be a lot less fun wouldn't it?

DanielCross
Aug 16, 2013
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but with the exception of spells and unique weapon skills, doesn't Elden Ring specifically let you equip a weapon to try its moveset, with a big message on-screen saying "Cannot wield weapon effectively with current stats" or something similar? So, you can try out the basic moveset with a penalty to your stats, exactly like how you're all "wishing" the game worked?

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

DanielCross posted:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but with the exception of spells and unique weapon skills, doesn't Elden Ring specifically let you equip a weapon to try its moveset, with a big message on-screen saying "Cannot wield weapon effectively with current stats" or something similar? So, you can try out the basic moveset with a penalty to your stats, exactly like how you're all "wishing" the game worked?

Yeah, you can equip anything in Elden Ring. If you don't meet the minimum stat requirements it cuts your damage to basically nothing and makes all your attacks bounce off enemies though. But it is a good way to test out movesets before you invest levels or the shockingly rare upgrade materials into the weapon

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

One time i prank called a bear buildin workshop and said I wanted my mamaws ashes put in a teddy from where she loved them things so well... The woman on the phone did not skip a beat. She just said, "Brang her on down here. We've did it before."

The Golux posted:

Short form is that for elixirs, the monster parts are bonuses to duration only. "critters" (bugs and lizards and stuff) determine the strength of the buff the elixir gives, but don't give HP (except fairies, and I'm not sure how they combine with other things). Food ingredients (vegetables, mushrooms, meat and poultry, fish, fruit, shellfish, etc) recover HP and most of them also give buffs, but food generally gives buffs for shorter durations. You can make elixirs that give longer duration buffs but also heal HP by adding food components, but it still needs at least one critter and one monster part to make an elixir - adding monster parts to food just makes dubious food. There are also seasonings like salt and nuts and goron spice that add to the HP recovered by foods but don't do much of anything on their own.

Honestly for most purposes I had more fun just combining food ingredients into different fun dishes with an eye for what kind of buff they would give, though it can be worth making some long-duration elixirs for cold and hot weather adaptation for extended exploration (and lategame if you want to just kill a bunch of minibosses in a row, long-duration attack or defense elixirs can be useful). Though apparently the best non-dragon-ingredient spicy and chilly elixirs are barely better than just mushroom skewers made from tons of sunshrooms/chillshrooms so whatever.

This post rules, thank you!

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



DanielCross posted:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but with the exception of spells and unique weapon skills, doesn't Elden Ring specifically let you equip a weapon to try its moveset, with a big message on-screen saying "Cannot wield weapon effectively with current stats" or something similar? So, you can try out the basic moveset with a penalty to your stats, exactly like how you're all "wishing" the game worked?

Not for everything, the Whip wouldn't even show up under my Equipment until I had the right stats. It was in my inventory, but under Equipment it just didn't show up. If this is a bug then no biggie, but it also isn't the only item I've noticed I couldn't actually put on my dude and use without a certain requirement.

romanowski
Nov 10, 2012

sigher posted:

Not for everything, the Whip wouldn't even show up under my Equipment until I had the right stats. It was in my inventory, but under Equipment it just didn't show up. If this is a bug then no biggie, but it also isn't the only item I've noticed I couldn't actually put on my dude and use without a certain requirement.

this is absolutely not how the inventory works in elden ring so you either encountered a weird bug or were confused by its admittedly sloppy UI

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME

The Golux posted:

Short form is that for elixirs, the monster parts are bonuses to duration only. "critters" (bugs and lizards and stuff) determine the strength of the buff the elixir gives, but don't give HP (except fairies, and I'm not sure how they combine with other things). Food ingredients (vegetables, mushrooms, meat and poultry, fish, fruit, shellfish, etc) recover HP and most of them also give buffs, but food generally gives buffs for shorter durations. You can make elixirs that give longer duration buffs but also heal HP by adding food components, but it still needs at least one critter and one monster part to make an elixir - adding monster parts to food just makes dubious food. There are also seasonings like salt and nuts and goron spice that add to the HP recovered by foods but don't do much of anything on their own.

Honestly for most purposes I had more fun just combining food ingredients into different fun dishes with an eye for what kind of buff they would give, though it can be worth making some long-duration elixirs for cold and hot weather adaptation for extended exploration (and lategame if you want to just kill a bunch of minibosses in a row, long-duration attack or defense elixirs can be useful). Though apparently the best non-dragon-ingredient spicy and chilly elixirs are barely better than just mushroom skewers made from tons of sunshrooms/chillshrooms so whatever.

yeah it's kind of underwhelming that you can just cook 1 hearty truffle or radish and get a full heal+ heart buff out of it rather than coming up with some recipe that does the same
efficient but also feels like defeats the point of cooking (for heals anyways)

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!
The two major ill-fated mechanics in Breath of the Wild are subtractive defense and temporary HP providing a refill. Subtractive defense makes many enemies harmless in the lategame, which is boring; similarly, earlier enemies do too much damage if they are tougher than what you’re expected to be fighting. And temporary HP makes too much other food obsolete.

There are some other wonky mechanics in the game, but on the whole I actually think Breath of the Wild’s systems are really good for the genre. It’s a very well-designed game, and almost everything supports the play experience of the world as a giant toy box that it’s fun to explore and to experiment with.

Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

Levitate posted:

yeah it's kind of underwhelming that you can just cook 1 hearty truffle or radish and get a full heal+ heart buff out of it rather than coming up with some recipe that does the same
efficient but also feels like defeats the point of cooking (for heals anyways)
My gut feeling is that they originally had more in mind for their cooking system, but they changed it during early playtesting because it became obvious that some players just want to tank their way through, and they got bored and frustrated if they needed to spend a lot of time hunting down ingredients for full health dishes that they immediately burned through. And once it was trivial to cook up the best dishes by using a single ingredient, there wasn't really a point to adding a cookbook or whatever.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Saw this painting out in the wild and it gave me unexpected feels. They titled it


“hey, listen”

mastajake
Oct 3, 2005

My blade is unBENDING!

She looks like she’s texting.

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

One time i prank called a bear buildin workshop and said I wanted my mamaws ashes put in a teddy from where she loved them things so well... The woman on the phone did not skip a beat. She just said, "Brang her on down here. We've did it before."
Wanna see old man link take on a very young Ganon.

DanielCross
Aug 16, 2013

External Organs posted:

Wanna see old man link take on a very young Ganon.

The Legend of Zelda: Gestalt

susan b buffering
Nov 14, 2016

DanielCross posted:

The Legend of Zelda: Gestalt

:sickos:

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004


Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




I’m on that side mission in my current botw playthrough and it’s been long enough since I’ve done it that I legit can’t find one cuckoo.

Also I wish the climbing gear effects could be applied without dressing up because the climbing gear is gross looking and my Link needs to be stylin at all times

Silver Falcon
Dec 5, 2005

Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and barbecue your own drumsticks!

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

I’m on that side mission in my current botw playthrough and it’s been long enough since I’ve done it that I legit can’t find one cuckoo.

Also I wish the climbing gear effects could be applied without dressing up because the climbing gear is gross looking and my Link needs to be stylin at all times

Do what I did: dye it black and pretend you're the Dread Pirate Roberts.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004


I like to make my Link wear Majoras Mask, the Switch shirt, and no pants.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Inferior Third Season posted:

My gut feeling is that they originally had more in mind for their cooking system, but they changed it during early playtesting because it became obvious that some players just want to tank their way through, and they got bored and frustrated if they needed to spend a lot of time hunting down ingredients for full health dishes that they immediately burned through. And once it was trivial to cook up the best dishes by using a single ingredient, there wasn't really a point to adding a cookbook or whatever.

Cooking for me was 90% "combine 5 best meats and sell" in order to raise money when I needed it. I never tested it but if you could find 5 ingredient recipes that then sell for considerably more then their individual ingredients that would've been good.

The rest, like elixers, potions, boosting food etc. was obtuse enough about how the various combinations worked I didn't bother. It was always super hard to figure out organically what was affecting the time and what strength the product would be.

Being able to replicate most of the buff effects anyways with level 2 armor sets also negated some usefulness once you get past the first few hours.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but everyone needs to play Tunic. It's on game pass. A Zelda style game where it barely tells you anything and you have to figure things out on your own plus use any clues you can find in game. It's very fun.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

pentyne posted:

Cooking for me was 90% "combine 5 best meats and sell" in order to raise money when I needed it. I never tested it but if you could find 5 ingredient recipes that then sell for considerably more then their individual ingredients that would've been good.

The rest, like elixers, potions, boosting food etc. was obtuse enough about how the various combinations worked I didn't bother. It was always super hard to figure out organically what was affecting the time and what strength the product would be.

Being able to replicate most of the buff effects anyways with level 2 armor sets also negated some usefulness once you get past the first few hours.
Obtuse? You put 5 bananas in the pot and get attack up +3 for 4 minutes, i didn't think that was very complicated to understand

You can play with it more to get more optimal results and longer effect times with elixirs and rarer ingredients but at no point is there any need to get it any more than "put more of the same thing in for more good"

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

One time i prank called a bear buildin workshop and said I wanted my mamaws ashes put in a teddy from where she loved them things so well... The woman on the phone did not skip a beat. She just said, "Brang her on down here. We've did it before."
Got an OLED switch, wandered up some desert mountains to get the wasteland watchtower and got my first glimpse of a divine beast. :hellyeah:

Still a good game y'all.

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




I will literally never not be in a play through of BOTW

I have accepted this as fact

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Cojawfee posted:

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but everyone needs to play Tunic. It's on game pass. A Zelda style game where it barely tells you anything and you have to figure things out on your own plus use any clues you can find in game. It's very fun.

It looks neat, I like the made up language aspect and also having to build your own game manual. If it ever comes to Switch I'd definitely buy it.

romanowski
Nov 10, 2012

new footage of BOTW2 :D

https://twitter.com/nintendoamerica/status/1508806409797963784?s=21

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Oh well, all the extra dev time means we’ll get a ROCK SOLID 30 FPS

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002


Well I'm glad there is official word finally. BoTW has been my favorite game of all time so I know that 2 will be worth the extra year wait.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

Lol that the title is apparently still too spoilery to reveal though

Good soup!
Nov 2, 2010

Disappointed, but given how much I got out of the first game, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Well that stinks, but whatever they need to do to make a good game I guess. It's kinda funny that the dev time is gonna be pretty much the same now as how long it took to put BotW together after Skyward Sword in the first place.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
I think it’s like 60% COVID, 40% straining under the limitations of the Switch and pushing the hardware to its literal breaking point.

superjew
Sep 5, 2007

No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!
Is that footage of the eroded(?) master sword new?

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012


Eiji Aounuma has had a haircut, what can this mean?!?

Manoueverable
Oct 23, 2010

Dubs Loves Wubs

Bust Rodd posted:

I think it’s like 60% COVID, 40% straining under the limitations of the Switch and pushing the hardware to its literal breaking point.

Maybe swap some covid percentage to scrambling after seeing Elden Ring and I think that's probably accurate.

The Dave
Sep 9, 2003

Cattail Prophet posted:

Lol that the title is apparently still too spoilery to reveal though

I bet it has twilight in it, that's my big brain bet. Not sure what else it could be, BotW2: GANON CAN FLY MOTHERFUCKERS

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

superjew posted:

Is that footage of the eroded(?) master sword new?

I definitely don't remember seeing it before

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

Super No Vacancy posted:

lol they can only promise 'some news' about botw2 this year. coming out in 2023 for sure on the microsoft x-switch

here's hoping we have capable hardware by spring!

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
So with a Q2 2023 release window I expect we'll see all the details at TGS in September

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Asterite34
May 19, 2009



I'm guessing part of it is that holiday season is already kind of a stacked lineup and they don't wanna cannibalize Pokemon's sales or whatever. It's an extra couple months of polish, it's fine.

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