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Comrade Blyatlov posted:https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1506997848348446722?t=j-ca3oTeHrBwbZyXkdVD1w&s=19 this is a novel approach to defeating aerial IR optics shame on an IGA posted:what's with all the air bursts, do the russians have some kind of CIWS or Iron Dome style point defense? cluster or other submunitions being explosively dispersed in this case, I believe? you can put all kinds of weird poo poo in some MLRS rockets Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 00:49
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Significant NATO policy changes itt https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_193613.htm?selectedLocale=en
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Mar 25, 2022 01:09
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That tweet about the pallets is such a "holy poo poo" detail that I'm ashamed I didn't notice it. I was ordnance in the army, and in civilian life I worked as a forklift mechanic for a time so I've spent a chunk of my life constantly around those things. it seems like such a small detail, but think about what that means for loading a truck. Instead of having a team of guys spend an hour or so loading the truck, one or two guys can remove the truck cover and side rails, while another gets the pallets onto the truck. What's an hour job for half a dozen or a dozen dudes is instead a 15-30 minute job for 3. Multiply that by, I don't know, a whole loving war and that's a huge man power differential. And the thing is, at the other end those pallets aren't useless. You could bring them back with the trucks, but just as likely you're going to leave them at the forward staging points where they can be used as fuel for cooking, supports for fighting positions, corduroy for walking paths or roads through muddy areas, or basically anything else you can use wood for. Jesus, how the gently caress do you not have pallets. It's not like Russia doesn't have loving trees. All this time I just assumed that the supply handling hardware was kept in Russia, which is why we never saw any get captured. It took that tweet pointing out the basic material handling architecture that was missing from Russian equipment to make me realize that not only is Russia not now doing basic logistical engineering THEY HAVE NEVER DONE IT IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 01:13
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I realize it seems surprising to have a shortage of something so mundane, but pallets have been in short supply world-wide for two years now.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:17
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He just starts off referencing pallets in that, his main point is this (which is another good read and remains true today) https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1457931068804419585?s=20&t=9lT7sZY5QiZn_rMLC9eSVA Every piece of modern day logistics is missing from their operation. McLean started pushing boxes in the '50s and at this point, everything is designed around them. About the only things not carried in a box or on a flat rack (most likely 40') are tanks and helicopters. The Cape Hs are so valuable because they provide shallow draft, heavy lift, ro/ro capability with gantry cranes in case shore infrastructure is trashed or nonexistent. Break bulk is so slow, as well as being dangerous with unskilled labor or cut corners (Concord Naval Weapons Station is the prime example but there's countless from WW2 and Vietnam) its absolutely insane that it exists. Break bulk isn't a thing, it takes so much more in terms of labor and resources and is so inefficient compared to palletized cargo. Like, this is loving shocking, its 1940s logistics tech which pretty much limits you to 1940s capabilites.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:18
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We started getting these pressed particleboard pieces of poo poo that break into chunks at the slightest bit of incorrectly applied force, and the jagged edges are sharp as gently caress. I'd rather get stuff stacked haphazardly than on those terrible things. The pallet shortage is the worst.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:19
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madeintaipei posted:Welcome to the wonderful world of break-bulk shipping. Pick up box, move box, ad infinitum. No, not there you ape! Use your legs, not your back! Whose cousin did you gently caress to get this job? Get the gently caress off my dock! The book The Box is a fascinating history of shipping containers and how they replaced break-bulk, and how ports like Singapore planned ahead and built cranes that could handle them while other ports were slow to adapt and got left behind. Highly recommended.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:19
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What really is important is the lack of cranes mounted on logistical vehicles, the lack of all terrain forklifts, and jesus christ, no tie downs built into heavy objects! Can you imagine that?! No tie down points! Naked Bear posted:I realize it seems surprising to have a shortage of something so mundane, but pallets have been in short supply world-wide for two years now. I suspect that if the US Army needed 100,000 wooden pallets to move something, they'd have them. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 01:20
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A.o.D. posted:What really is important is the lack of cranes mounted on logistical vehicles, the lack of all terrain forklifts, and jesus christ, no tie downs built into heavy objects! The army would definitely pay a premium for pallets, and if they couldn't find them, they'd immediately farm it out to engineers and mechanics with chainsaws and portable mills (bought from Harbor Freight on battalion credit cards).
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Mar 25, 2022 01:28
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I feel like we’re missing a good instructional video called “Expand your Pallet!” Hosted by a chap with a mid Atlantic accent
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Mar 25, 2022 01:29
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well I'm glad that everyone loved my pallet chat if you want to learn more about the market for wooden pallets, this podcast episode from end of 2021 was pretty good: https://play.acast.com/s/oddlots/f8f40e84-5b95-11ec-9fb6-e35f58875375
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Mar 25, 2022 01:31
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pmchem posted:well I'm glad that everyone loved my pallet chat Not having pallets is like losing fuel trucks on Day 2. A lot of people go "so what" but if you know the full implication of what that means it's a way bigger deal than a farmer pulling an MBT out of a muddy field. Thank you for bringing attention to that.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:33
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The pallet talk floored me, the wife wasn't impressed. In semi related logistics/maintenance news, Russian guided munitions have a 60% failure rate. Keeps hammering home the fact that motor pool Mondays were actually good.... https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1507150535660552193?t=S-qdvTcTIWa-ZHd4qTGQ2g&s=19
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Mar 25, 2022 01:34
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ASAPI posted:The pallet talk floored me, the wife wasn't impressed. I wonder if that includes the Naval Cruise Missiles that they are now launching from Sevastopol
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Mar 25, 2022 01:37
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madeintaipei posted:Welcome to the wonderful world of break-bulk shipping. Pick up box, move box, ad infinitum. No, not there you ape! Use your legs, not your back! Whose cousin did you gently caress to get this job? Get the gently caress off my dock! Truth. Read this book. It's a fantastic dive into the transition from break-bulk to containerization. https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691136408 edit- goddamnit that'll teach me to leave the reply window open while I eat
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Mar 25, 2022 01:39
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How are they so bad at everything 
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Mar 25, 2022 01:39
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I unironically appreciated pallet chat.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:51
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I just gotta say if you want a good, solidly made pallet you can't go cheap, you gotta go with Chep.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:52
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:How are they so bad at everything Their flag officers are really good at making money from their side businesses though.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:54
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Handsome Ralph posted:I unironically appreciated pallet chat. Same. I just can't believe it was missed all these weeks. It's so obvious and I feel dumb for missing it.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:56
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:How are they so bad at everything Perpetual hangovers probably play into it somehow
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Mar 25, 2022 02:00
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Now I’m wondering if Russia has been slow to move away from break-bulk shipping as it’s so easy for items to go missing that way and slightly harder to loot from containers. It’s dumb but would be similar to why a crooked corporate accountant might resist hiring support staff or buying new software that would make their schemes visible.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:05
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They’ve had cheap labor for the past forever, that diminishes the incentive to containerize / palletize.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:09
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FrozenVent posted:They’ve had cheap labor for the past forever, that diminishes the incentive to containerize / palletize. Looks like we've finally found a good use for that loving sailcargo outfit
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Mar 25, 2022 02:11
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Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego
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Mar 25, 2022 02:13
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Wood cheap
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Mar 25, 2022 02:15
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Alan Smithee posted:Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego  Russians would cook over burning plastic.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:16
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Alan Smithee posted:Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego There are plastic pallets, but I've mostly seen them in the beverage industry. They're okay, but wood pallets are cheaper and can be repaired with nails and scrap.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:17
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GB3Pwood posted:There are plastic pallets, but I've mostly seen them in the beverage industry. They're okay, but wood pallets are cheaper and can be repaired with nails and scrap. If you use a good Chep pallet you don't need to worry about them breaking. They are solidly constructed and are an industry leader. 
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Mar 25, 2022 02:19
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ASAPI posted:Keeps hammering home the fact that motor pool Mondays were actually good.... 50 years from now: "Now remember, space cadets, if you don't eat your vegetables and do your PMCS, you'll end up just like Russians in '22!"
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Mar 25, 2022 02:19
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Alan Smithee posted:Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego They are. A lot. You can't fix a broken plastic pallet, though. Wood is usually a lot cheaper, and can be made in any size/shape. With plastic pallets you're stuck with a few standardized sizes and shapes. They're good, usually quite durable, but when they're not the right pallet for the job, they're REALLY not the right pallet.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:20
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Why use pallets when you have a constantly replenishing supply of conscripts, which is apparently the actual answer to 'wait who is doing all the backbreaking loading/unloading then??'Hyrax Attack! posted:Now I’m wondering if Russia has been slow to move away from break-bulk shipping as it’s so easy for items to go missing that way and slightly harder to loot from containers. It’s dumb but would be similar to why a crooked corporate accountant might resist hiring support staff or buying new software that would make their schemes visible. I think in retrospect one of the great successes of this will prove to be getting the Ukrainian military running on essentially a US style inventory management system. Cuz on the Russian end of it, yeah you have a lot of incentives to resist modernization and anything that facilitates effective inventory management. Like you have two options: 1) you can just pocket the modernization/pallet money and make your conscripts work a lot harder or 2) you can not steal the money, but now your mistress is mad, someone actually has some clue what was delivered to your warehouses and now your odds of getting caught stealing stuff have gone up significantly. Might as well just steal the money, plus tired conscripts have less time and energy to go around noticing stuff that might get you in trouble Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 02:21
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Alan Smithee posted:Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego There are. Go into any Amazon warehouse and you'll find a million of these: https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-990/Pallets/Plastic-Pallet-48-x-40
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Mar 25, 2022 02:23
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Wood cheap Especially pallet wood.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:24
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davecrazy posted:There are.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:25
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Alan Smithee posted:Dumb question: why aren't things like plastics used to make pallets? If there's a shortage surely "not being able to burn them for cooking food" is a thing you can forego There are plastic pallets. Fiber reinforced plastic ones, too. Most beer in the US is delivered on FRP pallets. Grocery stores have cheapo plastic pallets for internal supply chain use. They are usually weird sizes; to fit certain sized things, fit in a truck a certain way, or handle high weight in a small footprint. The problem is that they aren't repairable. Once they get damaged they need to be collected and sent for recycling. Meanwhile, there is an entire cottage industry for collecting, repairing, and reselling non-CHEP wodden pallets. CHEP handles their own poo poo. Whole forests are grown just to make white wood pallets. Cheap, renewable, ubiquitous.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:26
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Cimber posted:I just gotta say if you want a good, solidly made pallet you can't go cheap, you gotta go with Chep. Do not summon that blue evil into this thread
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Mar 25, 2022 02:29
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Why use pallets when you have a constantly replenishing supply of conscripts, which is apparently the actual answer to 'wait who is doing all the backbreaking loading/unloading then??' That can work in peacetime, but when the bullets start flying, moving fast is the most important thing. One guy on a forklift can move more poo poo than a company of stevedores.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:29
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On a related subject of pallet-chat, apparently Russian rail isn't doing so hot either if this is anything to go by: https://twitter.com/akihheikkinen/status/1506975933797916674?s=20&t=pP6WwT2mBLBQbNCi7fZglQ Machine translation of part of the original article: quote:The initiative to consolidate the fleet of operators under the control of Russian Railways, expressed in a sharp form on March 22 by Valentina Matvienko, resulted in real actions. The government apparatus appealed to the Ministry of Transport, the Federal Antimonopoly Service, JSC Russian Railways and the Union of Railway Transport Operators (SOZHT) with a request until April 10 to “work out and provide an agreed position on the formation of a consolidated fleet of cars to ensure socially significant transportation and fulfill state tasks, as well as the development of evacuation tools unclaimed empty wagons that interfere with the movement of goods "(" Kommersant saw the document). I take it that nationalizing your railways a month into an offensive war against a smaller neighbor is probably not a good sign?
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Mar 25, 2022 02:29
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bees everywhere posted:There's another pic in the replies: Russians.
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