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Lammasu posted:What kind of ship has a 100 ft. mast?  quote:The masts of a warship were more lofty than those of a merchant ship of the same tonnage. In sailing merchant ships, the masts became more lofty with time. A merchant ship of 1300 tons, in 1830, had a mainmast 179 ft. in height; a vessel of the same size would have a mast of 198 ft
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Mar 25, 2022 13:58
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Here's a good example of a ship with 100-foot masts, of the sort that is typical for D&D adventures. https://www.wired.com/2015/06/oliver-hazard-perry/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSV_Oliver_Hazard_Perry 
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Mar 25, 2022 14:15
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Rutibex posted:No way modern Wizards of the Coast is going to do Dark Sun. It might be a similar setting but I think they will tone down the genocide and slavery The 4th edition version of the setting came out in 2010. And it's not like the setting ever presented slavery and genocide as anything but explicitly evil and reasons why the SKs should be destroyed.
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Mar 25, 2022 14:22
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PeterWeller posted:The 4th edition version of the setting came out in 2010. And it's not like the setting ever presented slavery and genocide as anything but explicitly evil and reasons why the SKs should be destroyed. I don't know if I would go so far back as 4th edition. I was under the impression that 5th edition and critical role is when D&D became really popular and wizards of the coast was starting to get pressure to be more inclusive and tone down the racist/sexist undertones.
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Mar 25, 2022 14:30
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Dark Sun is a setting explicitly about how genocide and slavery are inherent evils that can be personally fought against and defeated. Now's the time for it.
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Mar 25, 2022 14:39
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Froghammer posted:Dark Sun is a setting explicitly about how genocide and slavery are inherent evils that can be personally fought against and defeated. Now's the time for it. That's true. The real question is how are they gonna implement psionics into 5e
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Mar 25, 2022 14:43
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Rutibex posted:That's true. The real question is how are they gonna implement psionics into 5e They've already fumbled the ball on that because they aren't committing to a full separate psionic spell list. it's just mage hand and detect thoughts reskinned.
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Mar 25, 2022 14:50
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Rutibex posted:That's true. The real question is how are they gonna implement psionics into 5e Psionics is magic now. Aberrant Mind sorcerer. Soulknife rogue. GOO warlock. Psi Warrior fighter. So it will probably be more stuff like that.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:12
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There is the UA mystic, that might be the template for a pure psionic.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:16
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Rutibex posted:I don't know if I would go so far back as 4th edition. I was under the impression that 5th edition and critical role is when D&D became really popular and wizards of the coast was starting to get pressure to be more inclusive and tone down the racist/sexist undertones. My point is they already did a modern version of the setting, and the setting has always presented slavery and genocide as explicitly evil actions by the coterie of monsters who turned Athas into a wasteland. Hieronymous Alloy posted:They've already fumbled the ball on that because they aren't committing to a full separate psionic spell list. it's just mage hand and detect thoughts reskinned. They took a decent shot of it with the Unearthed Arcana Mystic from a few years back. It had Sciences and Disciplines and a lot of cool 2E psionicist flavor. But it playtested poorly, probably because it was too OP, or at least that's what it seems like from my brief experience in the 5E Dark Sun campaign I recently started running. So they decided to just drop it instead of iterating and developing it further, and now we just get meh subclasses instead. My personal feeling is that while psionics is heavily integrated into the setting, it's not actually fundamental to the setting.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:21
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PeterWeller posted:My personal feeling is that while psionics is heavily integrated into the setting, it's not actually fundamental to the setting. I'm a bit biased because I ran a 4 year long Dark Sun campaign back in 2nd edition in the 90's using the psionic's handbook heavily, and I really liked the system. That was of course like thirty years ago now so I barely even remember the campaign at all, apart from "allowing the half-giant to recruit all half-giant followers was a bad call" and a few other gems. (We technically got to level 20 but a lot of that was based on kludgy experience from mass combat using follower armies that bogged down the campaign; we functionally ended it at around level 16 or so). That said just to give background for my Take on dark sun which I admit is just my take. I see it as basically Mad Max, but fantasy. It's a post-environmental-catastrophe setting and environmentalism is a core conceit. Arcane magic is *the* destructive force that caused the ecological catastrophe. Psionics fits into that setting in two ways. -- First, to give the setting a bit of Science Fiction flavor; there's a reason DS is often grouped with Spelljammer. They're both future fantasy, closer in some ways to Star Wars than to Tolkien. -- Second, and importantly, to give an oppositional alternative to arcane magic. For Dark Sun to work it's really important that psionics are not arcane magic, that they don't destroy the environment the same way, that detect magic doesn't detect psionics, etc. Could you re-write Dark Sun without psionics? Sure. But it'd be a weaker setting. The problem is doing it the right way would require large scale commitment to writing a list of new powers and also writing how each of those powers interacts with established spells (e.g., can a psionic effect work in an anti magic shell? reach through a wall of force? etc). The workload and investment involved means they'd probably need to do it up front with a new edition rather than try to integrate it post-hoc.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:34
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TheDemon posted:I know my current crop of players are atypical but they are of the "we kick down the door" type. It always was the best way to find the traps. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon to buy a small quantity to herd animals to run ahead of the characters in a dungeon to try to trigger as many traps as possible. Not having to eat iron rations that night was just a bonus.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:39
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Antifreeze Head posted:It always was the best way to find the traps. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon to buy a small quantity to herd animals to run ahead of the characters in a dungeon to try to trigger as many traps as possible. "Herd animal" is a terrible thing to call your hirelings. We always used the euphemism "torch carrier". You go out front and carry this torch for us. Its totally safe i assure you, and when we get home you will get TWO shiney gold pieces!
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Mar 25, 2022 16:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:good stuff I also ran a really long 2E Dark Sun campaign, and this 5E campaign is my fourth time through the setting. I think your second reason is a really strong one and why I would ultimately want the setting to keep psionics if possible, though I think the divine magic could serve well as that alternative. I do also think it contributes to the "future fantasy" flavor, though I see that as more akin to stuff like Jack Vance, Bakshi's Wizards, and Heavy Metal magazine, and I don't think psionics are essential to establishing that flavor, at least in the original version of the setting. If you intend to include stuff introduced with the revised boxed set, especially stuff like the Last Sea, psionics becomes more and more integral. Basically, though, while I would prefer a new edition of Dark Sun to hew as closely as possible to the original and include robust psionics, if a lack of psionics rules is the only thing standing in its way, I would be fine with removing them and adjusting the setting accordingly. Thankfully, I haven't had to do that myself for this current campaign because the UA Mystic works well enough, and it conveniently features 12 Sciences, allowing me to roll a D12 to assign everyone a Wild Talent. As an aside, I think it's wrong to group Dark Sun and Spelljammer like that. Aside from spherical bodies in orbits, Spelljammer goes out of its way to present a very pre-modern conception of outer space with its sailing ships, crystal spheres, and phlogiston. If it's science fantasy, it's more akin to something like Ted Chiang's "Tower of Babel" than it is to Star Wars.
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Mar 25, 2022 16:29
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Rutibex posted:"Herd animal" is a terrible thing to call your hirelings. We always used the euphemism "torch carrier". You go out front and carry this torch for us. Its totally safe i assure you, and when we get home you will get TWO shiney gold pieces! If you'd let them read the diary, they'd know the the penitent man is humble before god, the penitent man KNEELS!
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Mar 25, 2022 16:48
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frankly i think dark sun would be a bad fit for 5e as it exists now due to its mechanical identity not gelling well with how most people play 5e(one fight per day, ignoring attrition rules)
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Mar 25, 2022 16:51
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pog boyfriend posted:frankly i think dark sun would be a bad fit for 5e as it exists now due to its mechanical identity not gelling well with how most people play 5e(one fight per day, ignoring attrition rules) I'm not sure about that. You could save scum your way through Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager (neither of which had you worry about water supplies either), and it didn't make the games feel any less Dark Sun. That playstyle long predates 5E anyway. It was a thing when Dark Sun originally came out.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:04
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Even back in the day when I was playing 2nd edition we never broke out the hex map and tracked rations. Though now I'm totally into it. I think it's more an age thing. Older gamers want logistics and younger ones just skip over it because "tracking food is boring dude lets just kill a wizard"
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Mar 25, 2022 18:44
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PeterWeller posted:I'm not sure about that. You could save scum your way through Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager (neither of which had you worry about water supplies either), and it didn't make the games feel any less Dark Sun. That playstyle long predates 5E anyway. It was a thing when Dark Sun originally came out. i guess thats true, to me what made dark sun special was the immensely oppressive world and this sort of unspoken challenge of "can you make things better", and part of what made that experience was the attrition of tracking water as you travel through the wastelands and the feeling of some things just being out of your league
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Mar 25, 2022 19:03
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pog boyfriend posted:i guess thats true, to me what made dark sun special was the immensely oppressive world and this sort of unspoken challenge of "can you make things better", and part of what made that experience was the attrition of tracking water as you travel through the wastelands and the feeling of some things just being out of your league Oh you're definitely right that a major part of the setting and its appeal is the oppression and survival aspects. But you don't really need to track water to get that vibe and the party can find itself out of its league even if its having a "normal" adventuring day. One of the ways you do that is by playing up the hazards of the world. For example, in the campaign I'm currently running (where we do track water, at least for now at lower levels), the party probably hasn't had more than two fights in a single day, but each day has also included deadly murder plants, fake and poisoned oases, and just mundane but still dangerous stuff like rockslides or getting torn up and buried by a sandstorm. There's also the fact that so many of the DS monsters are weird as hell and unique to the setting that adds a great deal of uncertainty. Two of the players in my campaign are D&D veterans, but they got no idea of how to deal with a Gaj, and they got completely freaked out by a single Belgoi. In my experience, moreso than any mechanical thing, the way to capture DS's vibe at the table is to make use of all the fantastic art from the 2E material. Past the scarcity of water and metal, it's still fundamentally D&D, but players don't necessarily see that if you're showing them another freaky Brom painting.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:44
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PeterWeller posted:Oh you're definitely right that a major part of the setting and its appeal is the oppression and survival aspects. But you don't really need to track water to get that vibe and the party can find itself out of its league even if its having a "normal" adventuring day. One of the ways you do that is by playing up the hazards of the world. For example, in the campaign I'm currently running (where we do track water, at least for now at lower levels), the party probably hasn't had more than two fights in a single day, but each day has also included deadly murder plants, fake and poisoned oases, and just mundane but still dangerous stuff like rockslides or getting torn up and buried by a sandstorm. There's also the fact that so many of the DS monsters are weird as hell and unique to the setting that adds a great deal of uncertainty. Two of the players in my campaign are D&D veterans, but they got no idea of how to deal with a Gaj, and they got completely freaked out by a single Belgoi. When I ran Dark Sun the first encounter I put the party through was a huge giant chasing after them, hip deep in silt (they were in a silt ship). He keep asking them to stop and talk to him, he is stuck you see and needs a hand. They ran away at full speed. If they stopped and let him catch up they would have been eaten 100% they were level 2 
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Mar 25, 2022 20:34
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I remember these obscure 2ed creatures, they were halfling sized NG snail creatures with tentacles on their face for manipulating objects. I remember reading it in my friend's loose leaf monster compendium.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:37
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They're supposed to start at level 3. 
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Mar 25, 2022 20:38
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PeterWeller posted:Oh you're definitely right that a major part of the setting and its appeal is the oppression and survival aspects. But you don't really need to track water to get that vibe and the party can find itself out of its league even if its having a "normal" adventuring day. One of the ways you do that is by playing up the hazards of the world. For example, in the campaign I'm currently running (where we do track water, at least for now at lower levels), the party probably hasn't had more than two fights in a single day, but each day has also included deadly murder plants, fake and poisoned oases, and just mundane but still dangerous stuff like rockslides or getting torn up and buried by a sandstorm. There's also the fact that so many of the DS monsters are weird as hell and unique to the setting that adds a great deal of uncertainty. Two of the players in my campaign are D&D veterans, but they got no idea of how to deal with a Gaj, and they got completely freaked out by a single Belgoi. solid points. i guess my original trepidation to a 5e dark sun is seeing the current bend the releases have towards abstraction and removal of attrition, but there are plenty of methods that can be used to make this better -- provided wotc is willing to sit down and finally give the exploration pillar the love it deserves, and provided they are able to make a book that is primarily focused on creating the tone of dark sun rather than providing fanservice to existing fans of the series. i am not sure they are capable of that, but i would be very happy if they proved me wrong
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Mar 25, 2022 20:41
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I think those are all fair reasons to be suspicious of WotC's ability to put out a good Dark Sun setting book.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:54
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The real epitome of Dark Sun is Brom and Baxa’s art. If we get an update it better have the GOATs.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:42
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TheDemon posted:I know my current crop of players are atypical but they are of the "we kick down the door" type. Your two choices are to troll them hard--"This door has a sign written in Common saying 'Danger, trapped door, do not open!'"--or do what I tend to do most of the time now when it comes to traps. I usually pair them with encounters. Open the door, and a trap triggers blocking off half the party from the other half, and the guards on the other side of the door attack. Meanwhile, holes open in the ceilings on the other side of the block, releasing a crossbow bolt trap that scent-marks the PCs followed by some insect swarms. The pit trap isn't designed to trap a PC, but to create a barrier to passage while the ranged enemies on the other side do their stuff. That roper becomes considerably more dangerous if it's surrounded by traps and pressure plates that it can drag victims over. And so on.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:43
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What are magic items or ways to become a better tank? I'm playing a 11 monk/2 barbarian right now. I'm looking to find ways to maybe force aggro towards me, and beef up my survivability, while also being able to protect allies
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Mar 25, 2022 23:48
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What kind of monk? Way of the Long Death is actually a pretty darn solid tank in my experience.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:06
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Bracers of Defense are an easy answer, the Sentinel feat can stop enemies from moving past/away from you, and taking Barb 3 and going Ancestral Guardian gives you a "mark" mechanic while raging, making that creature have disadvantage on attacks against other people(which is probably the closest you can get to "grabbing aggro" without homebrew/non-mechanical stuff). These are just the obvious stuff at the top of my head, I'm sure someone with more magic item experience can give you more ideas.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:09
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PeterWeller posted:They're supposed to start at level 3. Given how many 5e games tend to start at level 3, would Dark Sun games get pushed up to 5th as a starting level?
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Mar 26, 2022 00:18
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I've been seeing a lot of people multiclassing but from when I looked over the multiclass rules they seemed pretty lack luster.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:28
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RC Cola posted:What are magic items or ways to become a better tank? I'm playing a 11 monk/2 barbarian right now. I'm looking to find ways to maybe force aggro towards me, and beef up my survivability, while also being able to protect allies Does a Monks Belt exist is 5th edition? It would be a great boost if you are unarmored
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Mar 26, 2022 00:29
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I'm a way of shadows monk unfortunately. I am unarmored, however I have proficiency with shields because my DM power creeped the other PCs and that's what I asked for.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:32
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If a shield is in the mix(RAW your unarmored defense wouldn't work with it, but either your DM is handwaving this or didn't notice. Hopefully he isn't planning on gotcha'ing you) a Shield of Missile Attraction could actually work out. It curses you to become the target of ranged attacks against nearby allies(10 feet) but gives you resistance to ranged weapon damage, and you could combo it with Missile Deflection to lower the damage even further. Gives you more survivability and protects your friends-make that curse work for you!
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Mar 26, 2022 00:46
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RC Cola posted:I'm a way of shadows monk unfortunately. I am unarmored, however I have proficiency with shields because my DM power creeped the other PCs and that's what I asked for. You should have that anyway from barbarian
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Mar 26, 2022 01:12
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Libertad! posted:Given how many 5e games tend to start at level 3, would Dark Sun games get pushed up to 5th as a starting level? Nah, it will start at level 3, but there will be a weird, unrelated, and surprisingly difficult ramp up adventure for people who want to start at 1.
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Mar 26, 2022 01:23
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I can’t wait to be a slave in a caravan that gets ambushed by rampaging cannibalistic halflings (I’m calling them cannibals even though they don’t actually eat halflings).
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Mar 26, 2022 02:15
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Anyone have any expanded homebrewed rules for combat jumping they're using? I have a gnoll beast barbarian player in my group that wants to be able to leap around like a Left4Dead hunter, pouncing and mauling weak or poorly positioned targets to death. I'm 100% in favor, but even with their boosted jumping from the subclass, RAW, this sounds rarely if ever possible, if a jump can only be horizontal or vertical. And of course, weaponized movement could be exploited, so I need to set some ground rules. The current rulings I'm leaning towards are:
Thoughts, opinions? I'm sure I've overlooked some special case here, but this player typically acts in good faith; I don't expect them to spam up-and-down super-jumps like they're Winston in Overwatch, or try to throw in grappling for super-jump choke slams or whatever. -edit- poo poo, just realized Mobile feat easily circumvents that last bullet point. Back to the drawing board... Figurant fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 02:28
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Re: monk tank talk: Seconding the Sentinel feat. Pair that with a spear (versatile so you can use it one handed and still benefit from the feat) and you’re a CC machine. Use your monk speed and keep yourself between baddos and your friends. Given that you should have already received shield proficiency from taking barbarian, you may be able to convince your DM that that is equivalent to the ramp other players received.
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Mar 26, 2022 02:46
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