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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Oof. Sounds like the party in power might want to do something about this menace and his enabler that can run for the highest office in America in 2024. Your snarky comments are never directed at anyone and don't foster a great conversation about anything to be honest. You treat this place like a punching bag to vent your anger. Some new polling to read through https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1508094514480697346 https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1508097916329676803 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 27, 2022 |
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Mar 27, 2022 16:10
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Your snarky comments are never directed at anyone and don't foster a great conversation about anything to be honest. You treat this place like a punching bag to vent your anger. Without a comment of your own I responded with how I viewed the tweet you posted. Was there a discussion you wanted to start with the posting of that tweet? Where would you like the discussion to go?
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Mar 27, 2022 16:15
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Without a comment of your own I responded with how I viewed the tweet you posted. I'm very sure you can find a way to do it without the snark, so chill out
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Mar 27, 2022 16:16
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E: No snark about CE? New rule? So then they're saying the guy that stole an election for himself also stole an election for the Democrats? No one was ever punished for it and no one will be, unless of course the Rs punish him for not being evil enough.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:18
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Your snarky comments are never directed at anyone and don't foster a great conversation about anything to be honest. You treat this place like a punching bag to vent your anger. Those polls on what people are concerned about is a good example of how nonsense voter concerns can be and how much media/politicians themselves lead those sentiments. There is no reasonable reason to be less concerned about the virus. We're still in a pandemic, it's going to require another booster, the biggest change recently is that we stopped talking about it. Politicians and the media have stopped worrying so voters stopped worrying. And really we saw this effect across the board. Republicans never worried because the people they trust told them to not worry. Everyone else has stopped worrying as the people they trust toss out the science and decide this is all over now.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:20
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It's the same buy-in and Pascal's problem for everything democratic (third party vs internal Dem insurgency vs etc, climate change, covid). Our individual actions are wiped out by whatever the masses decide after they watch the news.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:Those polls on what people are concerned about is a good example of how nonsense voter concerns can be and how much media/politicians themselves lead those sentiments. There is no reasonable reason to be less concerned about the virus. We're still in a pandemic, it's going to require another booster, the biggest change recently is that we stopped talking about it. Politicians and the media have stopped worrying so voters stopped worrying. And really we saw this effect across the board. Republicans never worried because the people they trust told them to not worry. Everyone else has stopped worrying as the people they trust toss out the science and decide this is all over now. I don't agree. I'm much less concerned about COVID than I was six months ago. My kid's school is no longer facing staff shortages, and hospitalizations are way way down locally. however, the cost of living is absolutely through the roof. You can't just treat people like they don't have agency.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:33
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Harold Fjord posted:E: No snark about CE? New rule? Snark and aggro posting isn't doing anything helpful to the conversation, is it, and is more likely to result in egging people into doing the same. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Mar 27, 2022 |
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Mar 27, 2022 16:35
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I love how nbc/msnbc analyses of their own polls always hang a hat on "NOW the tide will surely turn!"quote:The poll was conducted between March 18-22, before the president's overseas trip, where he was to meet with NATO allies, visit with U.S. troops in Poland and deliver a major speech on Russia's war in Ukraine. Talk about framing; I'm p. sure they said the same about SOTU, the low official unemployment rates, the impact of the infrastructure bill's passage, and the kicking-in of the child tax credits--none of which had any appreciable positive effects on Biden's approvals. Gumball Gumption posted:Those polls on what people are concerned about is a good example of how nonsense voter concerns can be and how much media/politicians themselves lead those sentiments. There is no reasonable reason to be less concerned about the virus. We're still in a pandemic, it's going to require another booster, the biggest change recently is that we stopped talking about it. Politicians and the media have stopped worrying so voters stopped worrying. And really we saw this effect across the board. Republicans never worried because the people they trust told them to not worry. Everyone else has stopped worrying as the people they trust toss out the science and decide this is all over now. I mean, the WH followed to a T that 2-page strategy memo last month about voters wanting an end to pandemic measures, rational or not, so it's kind of a chicken-egg thing.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't agree. I'm much less concerned about COVID than I was six months ago. My kid's school is no longer facing staff shortages, and hospitalizations are way way down locally. however, the cost of living is absolutely through the roof. They have agency but the choices they make with that agency are influenced by the media they consume and the people they trust. I'm honestly just pointing out "Humans are social animals who are bad at risk assessment" because I think one of the things we should hold politicians to is being better than that and seeing the feedback loop that leads to the chicken and egg situation like Willa pointed out. But instead they follow voter sentiment which is a very unclear and unscientific measure of anything that is heavily influenced by the media and politicians following it.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:41
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lol at this bit, too:quote:But what stands out in the poll is that the American public hasn’t yet rallied around Biden as a result of the war in Ukraine, said Horwitt, the Democratic pollster. Oh, word? After two decades of useless warmongering voters aren't standing & clapping bc as you're trying to use it as a diversion from the domestic trash heap?
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Mar 27, 2022 16:42
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Since when do we judge actions solely by their intentions and not the consequences Was the Iraq War good because according to Bush and Cheney's stated intentions it would save tens of millions of people from nuclear annihilation at the hands of Saddam, and also be quick and relatively bloodless since we'd be greeted as liberators and our boys would be home by Christmastime
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Mar 27, 2022 16:45
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Willa Rogers posted:lol at this bit, too: Domestic issues take priority over foreign policy like 99% of the time for regular voters. The only real exception was after 9/11.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:47
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I think rally around the flag would happen the second we send troops in but the backlash would also be a mess. He might get all the way up to 53%
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Mar 27, 2022 16:48
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Lol they're gonna be insisting an inflection point in polling for Biden is just around the corner up until Trump gets sworn in in Jan 2025
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Mar 27, 2022 16:52
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VitalSigns posted:Since when do we judge actions solely by their intentions and not the consequences Depends if you are judging it entirely on the made up reasons that Bush and Cheney lied about to justify it. Which, in case it wasn't obvious, it was not good.
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Mar 27, 2022 16:55
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A big flaming stink posted:Lol they're gonna be insisting an inflection point in polling for Biden is just around the corner up until Trump gets sworn in in Jan 2025
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Mar 27, 2022 16:56
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CommieGIR posted:Depends if you are judging it entirely on the made up reasons that Bush and Cheney lied about to justify it. Which, in case it wasn't obvious, it was not good. Ah ah ah but neither of them ever specifically wrote a manifesto saying "yes I am lying about this war because I want to steal oil and drink the blood of Iraq's children" or words to that effect so according to stated-intentions logic, we cannot know for sure what they really thought in their hearts and attempting to infer from their actions that they had intentions they didn't mention is conspiracy theory, we can't be judging the war based on conspiracy theories now can we (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Mar 27, 2022 |
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Mar 27, 2022 17:01
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As a way sillier example, is it sex if Bill Clinton really doesn't think a blowjob is sex?
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Mar 27, 2022 17:03
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CommieGIR posted:Depends if you are judging it entirely on the made up reasons that Bush and Cheney lied about to justify it. Which, in case it wasn't obvious, it was not good. this appears to be strong evidence against assuming elected officials are stating their intentions in good faith, particularly when they are discussing why immiserating an entire nationality's worth of people is good actually.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:07
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Yinlock posted:I notice you conveniently omitted the part of the post where I said I was trying to reason out why someone would support sanctions despite their proven ineffectiveness. There's plenty of people on all parts of the political spectrum who support policies despite their proven ineffectiveness. When someone's belief in a policy is rooted in ideological reasoning in the first place, they can't really accept that the policy could actually fail, because doing so would imply that the underlying ideology has flaws. So if the policy does fail, they just go into denial, and fall back on all kinds of excuses to explain why it isn't the policy's fault that it failed, why it might not actually qualify as a real failure, why it wasn't a good example of a proper implementation of the desired policy, and so on. When someone comes into politics as an ideological crusader, facts and evidence take a backseat to theory. If the real world ends up not lining up with the theory, then it's the real world's fault for being wrong, because there certainly can't be any issue with the theory! Gumball Gumption posted:Those polls on what people are concerned about is a good example of how nonsense voter concerns can be and how much media/politicians themselves lead those sentiments. There is no reasonable reason to be less concerned about the virus. We're still in a pandemic, it's going to require another booster, the biggest change recently is that we stopped talking about it. Politicians and the media have stopped worrying so voters stopped worrying. And really we saw this effect across the board. Republicans never worried because the people they trust told them to not worry. Everyone else has stopped worrying as the people they trust toss out the science and decide this is all over now. According to the US Government's COVID data tracker 7-day averages, the case count is down to less than 1/20th of what it was during its January high, hospitalizations are at 1/10th of what they were in January, and the death count has gone below 1/3rd of what it was in January. OEven if people have to get COVID boosters every few months, that's still an improvement over when there was no booster and just lots of scary headlines about vaccine effectiveness. Given those numbers, it's not shocking that general public concern about COVID might have dropped somewhat, especially with other issues climbing way up people's priority lists - cost of living was ranked a lot lower in January, and the Ukraine war is of course a completely new issue.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:11
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sure feels that way And then we'll watch them beat the drum about what a racist he is for another 4 years while hoping he trips on some technicality that'll allow him to be impeached, because organizing disruptive and insurrectionary efforts against Trump is unthinkable, we must wait until he violates the rules.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:18
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think rally around the flag would happen the second we send troops in but the backlash would also be a mess. He might get all the way up to 53% Thank gently caress we have a president who seems committed to not send in troops for once!
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Mar 27, 2022 17:30
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CommieGIR posted:Depends if you are judging it entirely on the made up reasons that Bush and Cheney lied about to justify it. Which, in case it wasn't obvious, it was not good. I think this post is a perfect example of why I keep pushing folks to focus on the “effective outcome”. Who cares what the intentions of those in power or those attempting to exercise power are when the effective outcome is grim or goes against the stated intent? The ends justify the means, not the other way around.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:36
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Kalit posted:Thank gently caress we have a president who seems committed to not send in troops for once! Yep, this is one area in which I (so far) support Biden uncritically, in spite of his ad libs about removing Putin from his presidency. And it's particularly notable given Biden's personal history of warmongering.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:39
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Main Paineframe posted:According to the US Government's COVID data tracker 7-day averages, the case count is down to less than 1/20th of what it was during its January high, hospitalizations are at 1/10th of what they were in January, and the death count has gone below 1/3rd of what it was in January. OEven if people have to get COVID boosters every few months, that's still an improvement over when there was no booster and just lots of scary headlines about vaccine effectiveness. c'mon, do you think people are checking the covid numbers and setting their concern level accordingly? It's not a concern bc it isn't framed as a concern by our media and elected officials.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:40
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Main Paineframe posted:There's plenty of people on all parts of the political spectrum who support policies despite their proven ineffectiveness. We're even doing it here, among ourselves with no professional or personal monetary incentive, just political tribalism is enough for us to rationalize away evidence contrary to our beliefs with absurd arguments like: well powerful people say that sanctions work, would they really lie about that!?
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Mar 27, 2022 17:41
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
But...I thought the economy was BOOMING and all that poo poo? I never bought it and never feel it. I have a general sense of the things they use to calculate "the economy" but it never really seems to gel with what I see with my own eyes and the things I hear from the people I speak to. If this is an up and booming economy right now then this country is in worse shape than I thought. And I thought we were in pretty bad shape. 2008 was a real flashpoint and nothing sunstantial has ever really been done about it. Unless something meaningful is done about housing prices, income disparity, climate change and medical costs then GDP, the unemployment rate and stock market Indexes will continue to mean jack and poo poo to 95% of us. I have a slight glimmer of hope that something might eventually be done (simply because it will have to be) but not much since the people we keep electing are beholden to the 5% or 10% of people that can actually reap the benefits of a "great economy". Like, God loving help me right now if my lovely car dies The only reason I'm even a little bit optimistic is that eventually the things I wrote about will start effecting rich people and things will hit critical mass. If no one can actually afford to buy the poo poo that feeds the bank accounts of wealthy people, they might realize that UBI, UHC or even M4A is the only way people can afford to pay the rent on all this real estate they're buying up. I'm astonished at the value of my house right now and get constant offers for it but I keep asking myself who the gently caress has all this money to spend? It's tempting for me to cash in but...where the gently caress will I go?
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Mar 27, 2022 17:47
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VitalSigns posted:We're even doing it here, among ourselves with no professional or personal monetary incentive, just political tribalism is enough for us to rationalize away evidence contrary to our beliefs with absurd arguments like: well powerful people say that sanctions work, would they really lie about that!? i actually disagree with your diagnosis. it's not that we trust that sanctions work because powerful people say they do, it's that we trust sanctions work because if sanctions don't work then we are, as a nation, helpless to affect change in the world without making things worse which we are, by the way, but even among the soft left the idea that we can witness terrible things happening and be completely helpless to stop it is a bitter pill to swallow
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Mar 27, 2022 17:48
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Willa Rogers posted:Yep, this is one area in which I (so far) support Biden uncritically, in spite of his ad libs about removing Putin from his presidency.  He's getting perilously close to being the least-awful president on foreign policy in my lifetime. If he keeps us out of wars and maybe gets a new Iran Nuclear Deal going, he's got it, easily.Of course, a lot of good any of that will do him at the voting booths.
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Mar 27, 2022 17:50
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A big flaming stink posted:i actually disagree with your diagnosis. it's not that we trust that sanctions work because powerful people say they do, it's that we trust sanctions work because if sanctions don't work then we are, as a nation, helpless to affect change in the world without making things worse Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:this appears to be strong evidence against assuming elected officials are stating their intentions in good faith, particularly when they are discussing why immiserating an entire nationality's worth of people is good actually. Also worth pointing out that Biden helped sell the WMD lie, voted for the war, continued to defend his vote after no weapons were found and the bodies piled up day after day, gave Bush a freaking medal, and only in 2020 after the war had finally became unpopular politically did he come up with the story that mean ol Mr Bush tricked him into voting for it by telling him the vote was being held on Opposite Day! So there is plenty of reason to doubt both Biden's honesty and his concern for the deaths of innocent foreigners
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Mar 27, 2022 17:54
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:c'mon, do you think people are checking the covid numbers and setting their concern level accordingly? It's not a concern bc it isn't framed as a concern by our media and elected officials. ..... Yes?? At least some people are. I know I am. That's why I'm less concerned about it currently than I have been in the recent past. That's also true for a lot of my friends. Also, don't you think that at least some media/elected officials that change their tune based on covid numbers? You seem to be insinuating that media/elected officials don't change their stance as COVID numbers change. Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Mar 27, 2022 |
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Mar 27, 2022 18:40
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Kalit posted:..... Yes?? At least some people are. I know I am. That's why I'm less concerned about it currently than I have been in the recent past. That's also true for a lot of my friends. There might be a handful, but since both parties have decided COVID is over, and the media has milked the topic for all the ad-clicks it was worth, the pandemic has mostly faded from public discussion. I think the last story I saw on it was how many deaths Cuomo covered up.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:04
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Bishyaler posted:There might be a handful, but since both parties have decided COVID is over, and the media has milked the topic for all the ad-clicks it was worth, the pandemic has mostly faded from public discussion. I think the last story I saw on it was how many deaths Cuomo covered up. Not everyone operates around the media discourse and you shouldn't treat them as if they do.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:06
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Bishyaler posted:There might be a handful, but since both parties have decided COVID is over, and the media has milked the topic for all the ad-clicks it was worth, the pandemic has mostly faded from public discussion. I think the last story I saw on it was how many deaths Cuomo covered up. And you think the declining number of news stories has nothing to do with the new case count plummeting in the US? But fine, if you need another story on it, here's one from a couple days ago on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/25/health/covid-surveillance-still-matters/index.html
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Mar 27, 2022 19:09
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:c'mon, do you think people are checking the covid numbers and setting their concern level accordingly? It's not a concern bc it isn't framed as a concern by our media and elected officials. Regardless of whether people are checking the COVID numbers personally or having the general COVID situation reported to them by someone else, it's hard to believe it's a total coincidence that this chart of COVID cases from January to now correlates so well with the change in people's COVID concern levels between January and now.  (from here) BiggerBoat posted:But...I thought the economy was BOOMING and all that poo poo? I never bought it and never feel it. I have a general sense of the things they use to calculate "the economy" but it never really seems to gel with what I see with my own eyes and the things I hear from the people I speak to. If this is an up and booming economy right now then this country is in worse shape than I thought. The unemployment rate has actually returned to pre-pandemic levels, and wage growth in 2021 actually was well above pre-pandemic levels. By those metrics, the current situation is nothing like (for example) the 2008 recession. It's just that prices are also shooting upward at rates not seen in decades, especially the prices of basic goods like food and gas, with no particular policy response beyond "wait for the supply chain to untangle itself". And with the events happening in Ukraine, it's only going to get worse.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:13
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Main Paineframe posted:According to the US Government's COVID data tracker 7-day averages, the case count is down to less than 1/20th of what it was during its January high, hospitalizations are at 1/10th of what they were in January, and the death count has gone below 1/3rd of what it was in January. OEven if people have to get COVID boosters every few months, that's still an improvement over when there was no booster and just lots of scary headlines about vaccine effectiveness.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:15
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I actually do think that people rely on collected statistics like positivity rate to assess risk of what they do in public, which is why I'm so damned infuriated by the fact that a good number of states, even blue ones, are doing all day can to massage the numbers better - - looking at you Rhode Island.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:18
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BiggerBoat posted:But...I thought the economy was BOOMING and all that poo poo? I never bought it and never feel it. I have a general sense of the things they use to calculate "the economy" but it never really seems to gel with what I see with my own eyes and the things I hear from the people I speak to. If this is an up and booming economy right now then this country is in worse shape than I thought. The economy is doing fine. You must be ignorant how great the numbers are. Here, look at the numbers.  SOURCE: https://twitter.com/whitehouse/status/1486709480351952901 Here are some more numbers that show your feelings are wrong and things are doing good and getting better.  SOURCE: whitehouse.gov As you can see, your concerns are unfounded. Things are good and getting better.
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Mar 27, 2022 19:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The US Supreme Court is extremely unusual in a lot of aspects, including the lifetime appointments and that there's literally no qualifications required for it. Like. could go full Quinten Trembly and nominate 7 infants to it and there's literally nothing stopping it. The fact that you can wait literal decades for the court to change in favor of an ideology, even if it has critical mass support, is lunacy. Like even if Bernie Sanders was elected in 2020 he'd have to multiple consecutive terms before having a favorable Supreme Court.
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