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It would be cool if the distance between cars as well as the time was available on the data feeds
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Mar 29, 2022 11:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0
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Mar 29, 2022 11:07
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Thanks Ants posted:It would be cool if the distance between cars as well as the time was available on the data feeds Just another way Murray was better than Crofty, he remembered D=SxT
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Mar 29, 2022 11:16
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tuo posted:Out of interest: how much do vibrations from the engine and heat buildup influence such a scenario? The wind tunnel models are still smaller, correct? Like 1:2 or something like that? Or are they full size nowadays, and could theoretically house a running engine? Are the wind tunnel models the same weight (in regard to scale) than the real thing, with similar weight distribution? Tunnel models are 60% scale. Sophistication of model systems vary by team, but they all have internals that simulate exhaust blowing. Weight and weight distribution are kind of not a thing - we are interested in the forces exerted on the model by the airflow so it's more important that it's geometrically correct rather than physically correct. We do try and make the tyre shape as close to the track condition as possible through various clever methods.
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Mar 29, 2022 11:48
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Now that ground effect is a thing I assume people are trying to make wind tunnels where you can crash the car into the belt to porpoise it
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Mar 29, 2022 11:50
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Rebus posted:Sophistication of model systems vary by team, but they all have internals that simulate exhaust blowing. Weight and weight distribution are kind of not a thing - we are interested in the forces exerted on the model by the airflow so it's more important that it's geometrically correct rather than physically correct. We do try and make the tyre shape as close to the track condition as possible through various clever methods. The first time I saw "bouncing" or "porpoising" was with Class 1 cars when they used DRS. The cars were solid on the straights, but as soon as the downforce on the rear got reduced due to DRS, they bounced. Especially in regard to the porpoising, wouldn't a simulation of the suspension help to detect something like that before the car hits the track/testing? Or is the suspension actually not relevant towards this effect, and it is purely aerodynamics? Sorry for asking so many questions.
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Mar 29, 2022 12:57
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Khablam posted:This reminds me of Murray explaining that cars weren't getting closer on time going into a hairpin, they were just slower so the gap was physically closing. Buddy I dropped out of high school and that poo poo seems obvious to me.
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Mar 29, 2022 13:04
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In the games you have to drive to a time delta so obviously that’s how it works. Checkmate.
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Mar 29, 2022 14:00
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PhoenixFlaccus posted:In the games you have to drive to a time delta so obviously that’s how it works. Checkmate. So this again, is correct.
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Mar 29, 2022 14:58
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Bring back delta wings.
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Mar 29, 2022 15:16
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https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1508793287376834566?t=PmWME9BLUrTP8ZugBAoj6w&s=19 They absolutely do not wanna go back to Saudi
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Mar 29, 2022 15:49
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:There are sensors around the track and if an incident happens in one area, that area can be switched into virtual pit lane. So when the cars pass the sensors into that area, they have to be doing pit lane speed which is something very low like 30mph. If they're doing over 30, a sensor catches it and they get a fairly big penalty. Then when they exit that virtual pit area, they go back to normal racing. Makes everything very slow and safe in the incident area but allows the race to continue everywhere else. Very sensible and logical and reliable, as opposed to "driving to a delta" or whatever asinine contrived thing based on laptime math that F1 came up with just to be different from ACO/WEC. Which still allows for high corner speeds if the drivers want to do it -- I think -- which is dangerous and defeats the entire loving purpose of a "safety" mode to the race. Thanks for the explanation, that makes so much more sense than a VSC.
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Mar 29, 2022 15:50
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Solkanar512 posted:Thanks for the explanation, that makes so much more sense than a VSC. No, it could 100% gently caress someones race over if they are unlucky with when it starts/ends. This matters comparatively less in endurance racing since the races are so long. Out of double yellow, safety car, red flag, VSC is the one that impacts the results the least.
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Mar 29, 2022 15:58
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Khablam posted:Hi crofty, Physics. What you are describing is physics, not mathematics.
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Mar 29, 2022 15:58
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Rebus posted:Weight and weight distribution are kind of not a thing - we are interested in the forces exerted on the model by the airflow so it's more important that it's geometrically correct rather than physically correct. is this why porpoising seemed like a surprise or was that just the media latching onto something
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Mar 29, 2022 16:03
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shyduck posted:https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1508793287376834566?t=PmWME9BLUrTP8ZugBAoj6w&s=19 weird, why
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Mar 29, 2022 16:05
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also i don’t think the power unit is the problem with mercedes (at least not the main one); they’ve been pretty consistently good at figuring out the clunky turbo-hybrid problem so if anything i imagine the field is just catching up to them in that regard. the car’s definitely lovely though and i think russell complained about porpoising in an interview
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Mar 29, 2022 16:09
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Khablam posted:This was legit hilarious, especially when it showed Max and Chale'sclerk on screen and crofty started babbling that he's "much closer there". Cars are basically required to stay above a minimum mini-sector time that is about 30% slower then the corresponding time for an average race lap. Given two cars, the leading car always begins accelerating or braking to hit this number time_delta seconds before the trailing one. When the VSC is working a intended, this produces the same effect we are all so familiar with in races, where the distance between two cars separated by a set time delta expands and contracts depending on where they are on the track: Accelerating out of a corner onto a straight, the lead car pulls away, widening the gap, until the trailing car matches its speed, at which time the distance stabilizes. The lead car begins braking for the next corner sooner, which makes the distance between them decrease, even while the time difference stays steady. This same thing is happening with both green-flag racing and the VSC. It happens in a lumpier, less natural way with the VSC because of the 50-meter time sampling, oddities concerning just how many and which marshall's sectors the drivers actually have to post qualifying times for, and other issues
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Mar 29, 2022 16:21
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marshalljim posted:That's not how the VSC works, so the distance is not preserved, even under ideal conditions. None of this matters? You're just describing corners and straights. E: I don't think you two are in disagreement, you're just stuck on "maintains distance". Yeah, you're right, distance is going to vary entering/exiting corners, but distance on say the main straight should be the same over subsequent VSC laps. The point isn't really that though, it's that in theory, VSC should maintain time between cars from before and after VSC starts and ends. Xakura fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 29, 2022 |
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Mar 29, 2022 16:25
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I, for one, have noticed that the cars go vroom
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Mar 29, 2022 16:30
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state of this thread
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Mar 29, 2022 16:30
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Some of you fuckers absolutely weren't given enough swirlies in school, fuckin nerds
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Mar 29, 2022 16:34
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Xakura posted:None of this matters? You're just describing corners and straights. Right. Corners and straights are ultimately why the VSC does not preserve the distance between cars. People who think the VSC preserves the distances between cars (or is meant to) misunderstand how the VSC works and have probably not thought about the implications of their position.
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Mar 29, 2022 16:34
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marshalljim posted:Right. Corners and straights are ultimately why the VSC does not preserve the distance between cars. People who think the VSC preserves the distances between cars (or is meant to) misunderstand how the VSC works and have probably not thought about the implications of their position. I think could be more generous in reading their argument. Distance would be maintained in a perfect circle or infinite straight, but time difference certainly wouldn't. Which is how this all started. (Crofty et al commenting on time between cars changing under VSC)
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Mar 29, 2022 16:44
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VSC starts with a V. Verstappen starts with a V. Thinking about that really hard brings me to the conclusion that VSC sucks.
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Mar 29, 2022 16:50
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Theophany posted:Some of you fuckers absolutely weren't given enough swirlies in school, fuckin nerds was just going to post something along these lines lol
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Mar 29, 2022 16:51
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ArmZ posted:is this why porpoising seemed like a surprise or was that just the media latching onto something I've always figured that because the teams use rolling road wind tunnels, you need some way to stop the car from moving around on the belt (or just falling off). This is done by having an arm from the ceiling connect to the car like this:  Porpoising occurs when the ground effect creates enough suction that it pulls the chassis to the ground. The chassis being closer to the ground seals the floor and makes a smaller venturi to create more powerful suction which further pulls the chassis to the ground. This effect multiplies until the venturi is so small that you can't pull the same volume of air through it and the car suddenly loses downforce and the suspension springs the chassis back up which then creates more downforce, repeat forever. The problem with the wind tunnel is because you have that arm holding onto the car, when the ground effect kicks in, that arm holds the car up and keeps the car in a static position preventing porpoising from starting in the first place. I don't know if that is actually the case, but it is the most logical explanation I could make when I saw a car in a rolling road wind tunnel.
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Mar 29, 2022 16:52
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Theophany posted:Some of you fuckers absolutely weren't given enough swirlies in school, fuckin nerds i like sassy theo
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Mar 29, 2022 16:55
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MustardFacial posted:I've always figured that because the teams use rolling road wind tunnels, you need some way to stop the car from moving around on the belt (or just falling off). This is done by having an arm from the ceiling connect to the car like this: I refuse to believe that that arm wasn't designed to move up or down with changes in downforce, like 0% chance of that.
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Mar 29, 2022 16:56
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:I, for one, have noticed that the cars go vroom 
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Mar 29, 2022 17:01
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drat it, we were *this* close to Max* crashing out with wall contact https://streamable.com/fram9l
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Mar 29, 2022 17:08
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GramCracker posted:drat it, we were *this* close to Max* crashing out with wall contact Phwoar what a driver.
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Mar 29, 2022 17:11
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I refuse to believe that that arm wasn't designed to move up or down with changes in downforce, like 0% chance of that.  Like I said, this was the most logical explanation I could make based on porpoising being a surprise to all of the teams, and that picture. I don't really know the answer. Maybe it doesn't move, maybe it actively pushes the car down to simulate suspension load and that prevents it from bouncing, maybe the wind tunnels don't go up to the speeds that the cars can, maybe the model is too heavy because of ur fat mum.The only credible resource we have is Rebus, and he understandably cannot tell us a lot of the nitty gritty stuff like this.
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Mar 29, 2022 17:11
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I refuse to believe that that arm wasn't designed to move up or down with changes in downforce, like 0% chance of that. They probably have a stop distance on it so they don’t tear the poo poo out of their multimillion dollar treadmill
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Mar 29, 2022 17:11
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So, Max Mosley is dead. Killed himself upon learning he had terminal cancer. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/f1-boss-max-mosley-shot-26583078
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Mar 29, 2022 17:17
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I refuse to believe that that arm wasn't designed to move up or down with changes in downforce, like 0% chance of that. Maybe that would be too expensive or make the calculations harder? Aren't treadmills and spinning wheels relatively new?
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Mar 29, 2022 17:20
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GramCracker posted:So, Max Mosley is dead. Killed himself upon learning he had terminal cancer.  rough way to go
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Mar 29, 2022 17:20
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GramCracker posted:So, Max Mosley is dead. Killed himself upon learning he had terminal cancer. shotgun and a note on the door, that's grim
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Mar 29, 2022 17:21
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:shotgun and a note on the door, that's grim I know you loving brits hate the idea of the great Scuderia Ferrari winning but this is a bit much
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Mar 29, 2022 17:23
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That was in May last year so scud were still relative binmen back then
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Mar 29, 2022 17:25
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