|
Coldforge posted:These two statements are at odds with each other. How? Coldforge posted:Bungie seems to disagree! That's why I bring it up. It's (to me) a bad decision to have the primary FATS perk in the game when the toggle makes it redundant. I "get" why they'd just say screw it and leave the dead perk on existing primaries (it'd be a lot of work to rework it or replace it), but the existence of the unreleased E:FATS perk means they're planning on it being on future guns as well. Oxyclean posted:Yeah, it's a problem that full auto occupies a space of "it'd be nice, but it's more optimal to take another perk and deal with the clicking." Yeah, exactly. Bungie already had to explain the bad optics of FA Retrofit taking up your mod slot by explaining it was a temporary fix. They don't want to convey that accessibility accommodations will take up some of a player's resources. That's insulting, and was the entire reason why they decided to add FA as an accessibility option rather than something that you have to make sacrifices for in order to put on your gun.
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Kith posted:There's a reasonable likelihood that they're going to add something desirable to the perk to make it not overcome by the accessibility option. Maybe some extra Stability. GoGoGadgetChris posted:I "get" why they'd just say screw it and leave the dead perk on existing primaries (it'd be a lot of work to rework it or replace it), but the existence of the unreleased E:FATS perk means they're planning on it being on future guns as well. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:09
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Yeah, it's a problem that full auto occupies a space of "it'd be nice, but it's more optimal to take another perk and deal with the clicking." This is what confuses me about complaints regarding full-auto. It's always been a convenience perk, it looks like it will continue to be a convenience perk (though in multiple directions now), but somehow making the game easier to play for a group of people means that existing guns with the perk should get bonuses. It seems extremely sketchy. GoGoGadgetChris posted:How? It does not make it redundant. Some people may not want to deal with always on auto-fire causing them to multi-fire when they only meant to fire once, and want more consistent control. It's still about convenience. "The toggle will allow you to have full auto fire when desired (by holding the trigger down) and semi-auto fire when desired (either turning the toggle off, or by simply not holding down the trigger)" Just because you don't find it inconvenient, doesn't mean everyone won't! Coldforge fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:11
|
|
|
Coldforge posted:This is what confuses me about complaints regarding full-auto. The problem is solved, full stop, by having the (important, necessary) accessibility option as a menu toggle. The same feature should not be offered as a Perk, because it's A. pointless, redundant B. insulting to refer to an accommodation as a "perk". They need to separate the concepts of FA as an accessibility feature and FA as a perk, bonus, or boon. Coldforge posted:It does not make it redundant. Some people may not want to deal with always on auto-fire causing them to multi-fire when they only meant to fire once, and want more consistent control. It's still about convenience. These people will turn the menu toggle "off". They can also turn it "on". See how the problem is solved? Coldforge posted:Just because you don't find it inconvenient, doesn't mean everyone won't! Being able to turn the toggle "off" will be more convenient than relying on RNG guns to either have or lack the FATS perk as desired, yes. GoGoGadgetChris fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:18
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:The problem is solved, full stop, by having the (important, necessary) accessibility option as a menu toggle. Do you honestly think it's pointless and redundant or do you just want it to have more value as a perk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
Coldforge posted:This is what confuses me about complaints regarding full-auto. It's like making dps perks compete with other dps perks, and survivability perks compete with other survivability perks. Maybe something like a mod slot that only takes convenience mods so players can improve a gun in a way that's good for them without trading off more important things?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
Coldforge posted:Do you honestly think it's pointless and redundant or do you just want it to have more value as a perk. The former. Oxyclean's post right above mine puts it better than I can.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Convenience perks kind of aren't a good thing. Players should not be choosing between "makes the game less physically uncomfortable to play" and "does more damage." Clearly there is a DPS advantage to reaching optimal fire rate, and if I had to guess that's probably why Bungie is being careful in the way they implement this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:28
|
|
|
Friendo I can tell from the increasing levels of snark that you're starting to "get it" and that's good. Bungie at least pays lipservice to accessibility so they should separate the concept from gameplay-enhancing "perks". Plus it's bad game design to have dead perks, even if they do intentionally ship some perks as Hot & some as Filler, just to make the godroll chase take a bit longer. They're headed in the right direction with FA Accessibility and just have a couple hurdles left to clear!
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
Literally what is the point of the perk existing though once they implement the toggle? To make sure that sometimes a gun drops and it's effectively -1 perk slot because it's the same as having a menu option toggled on?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
imweasel09 posted:Literally what is the point of the perk existing though once they implement the toggle? To make sure that sometimes a gun drops and it's effectively -1 perk slot because it's the same as having a menu option toggled on? On Shotguns it increases the rate of fire slightly, but mechanically there's no difference between a primary with FATS perk and a primary with the Toggle on. Bungie acknowledged that full auto primaries are an accessibility issue and not something that should eat up the Perk Budget so they started working on the menu toggle. The weapon mod is a temporary fix and Bungie made it abundantly clear that this is just a quick place-holder, since "occupies the mod slot" has the same issue as "occupies a Perk slot". Many were or are still hoping that the FATS perk will be reworked or retired since the toggle does what it does at no cost and without insulting the differently abled, but based on the recent addition of certain perks to the API it looks like they'll be putting the FATS perk on future weapons & not revising how it works on existing weapons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
Coldforge posted:Clearly there is a DPS advantage to reaching optimal fire rate, and if I had to guess that's probably why Bungie is being careful in the way they implement this. but if everyone has access to it through a menu what difference is it going to make keeping it on a gun? if a gun can already roll a dps perk in lieu of FAT, a player can already "reach optimal fire rate'' through good clicking, it's not going to unbalance the game to swap the exist FAT to a new perk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:59
|
|
|
Full-Auto the perk is already pretty much dead, isn't it? A couple guns showed up in season 15 with the perk but I can't spot any season 16 guns with full-auto. For all we know the perk is effectively sunset and they're only modifying the stats it gets so that anyone still using an old gun gets at least something out of it. Who knows why they made an enhanced perk, maybe some intern got enthusiastic populating the spreadsheet and it will never show up on a craftable weapon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
Got a couple of good chuckles from Paul tassi tweeter today  Making a gamer for Destiny Players has got to be... challenging
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Full-Auto the perk is already pretty much dead, isn't it? A couple guns showed up in season 15 with the perk but I can't spot any season 16 guns with full-auto. Hopefully it isn't on any Season 17-and-beyond guns, but the addition of Enhanced FATS suggests it'll appear on a future gun with RNG drops and random rolls. And the +4 Stability on Enhanced FATS suggests that they won't modify weapons that have the existing perk. But like you said, this is just stuff in the API, and everything is subject to change until it's in-game! Bungie seems kinda Less Stupid than usual this past year so I'm optimistic
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 00:17
|
|
|
Hat Trick, call the cops IDGAF Estimated Trials Adept Weapon Calendar for this season, given that the Vendor weapon order seems to match the weapon rotation. 2/25 - Eye of Sol (Trials wasn't active active) 3/4 - Messenger (Trials wasn't active) 3/11 - Summoner 3/18 - Iron Banner, no Trials. IB appears to "preserve" the rotation this season instead of loving over a gun 3/25 - Aisha's ----------into the future we go--------- 4/1 - Shayura's & Trials Zone Capture 4/8 - Reed's & Trials Freelance 4/15 - Iron Banner, no trials 4/22 - Eye of Sol & Trials Zone Capture 4/29 - Messenger for the first time since December 5th 5/6 - Summoner & Trials Freelance & Community-voted Map 5/13 - Iron Banner, no trials 5/20 - Aisha's, Trials Freelance Zone Capture You only get one shot at Shayura's, Reed's, Eye of Sol, and Messenger Adepts this season, and there will only be one more shot at Summoner and Aisha's. I wouldn't expect any of these guns to be vaulted next season, as that would require them to add new guns to the pool (for the 3rd season in a row!) but it's certainly possible, and of course the Perk Pools will probably be updated.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 01:32
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:New Player Guide Thanks for this. I bought Destiny 2 on release but was pretty much about to go homeless at the time, so I obviously couldn't play it. Years later, I bought the pack of Forsaken and other expansions when Destiny 2 came on Steam. I can't bring myself to progress more than like four hours into a campaign because the game just vomits activities, tutorials, waypoints, in-universe lore names for basic features and mechanics, blinking markers over NPCs who don't seem to have anything for me to do... it's an absolute headache and it feels like nobody at Bungie has sat a new player in front of the game and told them to start playing. I looked up "new player experience problems" online, and most people seem to have issues with new players' introductions to the game when it comes to lore, but just giving basic instructions on what activities and mechanics are is such a mess. EDIT: I DON'T KNOW WHICH OF THESE QUESTS FILED UNDER NEW LIGHT JUST MOVES THE CAMPAIGN ALONG. This is so miserable. Coquito Ergo Sum fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 29, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 02:08
|
|
|
Coquito Ergo Sum posted:
This might be helpful to you. This page has all the story missions in order for all the campaigns: https://tellhow.herokuapp.com/destiny/all-destiny-2-campaigns-in-order/ I definitely think the new player experience needs a ton more work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 02:18
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:This might be helpful to you. This page has all the story missions in order for all the campaigns: The problem was all of the New Light stuff. I found some people who just watched my stream and explained to me what everything was. I didn't even know what the Orbs of Power or whatever were because the game doesn't explain what they are to start, they just tell you to collect them. It's really frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 03:20
|
|
|
Bungie added tooltips to the loading screens and put the Cosmodrome back in as a tutorial story, everything a new player needs! It's a shock to hear of anyone having issues with understanding game systems.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 04:15
|
|
|
One thing that would help massively would be a 'story' tab in quests, with 2 columns: left column would be all of the mainline story quests in chronological order (so new light, shadowkeep, beyond light, witch queen), and the right column would be all of the seasonal stuff in order. E: not like the timeline, it would list any story quests you still have to do. But yeah. The wife started playing just after WQ launch, and I suspect will stop soon, partly because wonderlands is coming out and partly because of how many times she's had to wait for me to be around to explain what the hell's going on. Mostly she logs on and just does playlist stuff because of pinnacle FOMO or tries to get bounties done. Still hasn't even finished shadowkeep or beyond light. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 29, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 04:25
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Bungie added tooltips to the loading screens and put the Cosmodrome back in as a tutorial story, everything a new player needs! It's really not a shock. I like showing new players into the game and The Cosmodrome and New Light suck as introductions and have probably scared away a lot of prospective players. It doesn't explain basic mechanics, the waypoint markers are busted in spots and can be unclear for newbies, tutorial windows sometimes won't react to player actions and will just be stuck on a single window. I was guiding a new player into the game a few months ago by having his stream on my second monitor, and I was appalled at how bad New Light is for trying to draw new players into D2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 05:04
|
|
|
Easily the worst PvP season in a long time. Piss poor matchmaking and more lag than I have ever experienced. I have full bar and a 500/500 connection hard wired into the Xbox. “Connection” based March making my loving rear end. Edit: The lack of dedicated servers to facilitate PvP is also complete and utter poo poo. This game is unfortunately the only one of its kind in the genre. If there was a different game with the same kind of gun/loadout play with even half of the population I would switch in a heartbeat. This poo poo is inexcusable and I am sick and tired of this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 07:03
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Players should not be choosing between "makes the game less physically uncomfortable to play" and "does more damage." DoomTrainPhD posted:Easily the worst PvP season in a long time. Piss poor matchmaking and more lag than I have ever experienced. I have full bar and a 500/500 connection hard wired into the Xbox. “Connection” based March making my loving rear end. I keep being dead before I see anyone on my screen and then they slide in and I the shot happens but I've already been dead on my screen for almost a second, it's very jarring
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 10:10
|
|
|
Outside of video gaming there has been a lot of cyber warfare the past month so there is every chance that is why your connections have been less than stellar. Nothing involving bungie of course but everyone uses the same infrastructure, more or less.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 11:34
|
|
|
Bobby Deluxe posted:One thing that would help massively would be a 'story' tab in quests, with 2 columns: left column would be all of the mainline story quests in chronological order (so new light, shadowkeep, beyond light, witch queen), and the right column would be all of the seasonal stuff in order. You realize the quests are color coded in this exact way right? Every season/expansion has a different color and the quests in your log that share that color are the story campaign missions that progress that season or expansions plotlines. I know it’s hostile to new players and not explicitly laid in game, but it is color coded.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 12:12
|
|
|
.
harrygomm fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jun 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:You realize the quests are color coded in this exact way right? Every season/expansion has a different color and the quests in your log that share that color are the story campaign missions that progress that season or expansions plotlines. I know it’s hostile to new players and not explicitly laid in game, but it is color coded. When my wife started playing one of the first things she accidentally attempted was Grasp solo, because the quest appeared high up in the listing, the tooltip when you start the activity says recommended light 1350, and the quest says nothing about matchmaking (I know we as seasoned players know there's no matchmaking unless it says so, but new players don't). Grasp is another good example of inconsistent labelling because the basic grasp is labelled legendary and the 'hard' version is master, but in most other things like the seasonal activities and the campaign normal is 1350 and legendary is the hard mode. And it says 1350 but when you get killed it says the recommended enemy level is 1550. Honestly I think anyone who thinks the new player experience is fine or even acceptable should sit down with someone who you know isn't stupid, who's intelligence you respect, who's never played before and go through new light. No prompting, just watch and see the myriad of things that seem perfectly natural to seasoned players but absolutely do not occur to newer players. I like the new void3 meditation mini quest where you get to play with mayhem regen to test out your new ability, but apart from that it's still a huge mess that explains key things like strikes, gunsmith rep and crucible via an unvoiced wall of text, and doesn't explain a lot of other things at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 15:18
|
|
|
Oh for sure the game is actively hostile to new players, I just meant that in case you’re not around or whatever your wife could just focus on doing all the RED Shadowkeep quests, the Purple Beyond Light campaign, and then finally the new Teal WQ campaign, and to avoid yellow/gold quests until a fire team is available. That’s I’m doing for my brother and he’s mostly getting by.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 15:32
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/DestinyBulletn/status/1508557574714630144?s=20&t=nTLtRzz6QdNgQAXfOagt1A Was this posted?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 16:18
|
|
|
It's good that Bungie are using their teams to fight this in the courts, no way the individual streamers could afford a case like this. https://twitter.com/Sxratch_/status/1508586424752353280?t=rcuwAIOFJJRSL35zCOUK1Q&s=19
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 16:55
|
|
|
Oh my god, gently caress off am I doing one more legendary psi ops, let alone multiple
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 19:59
|
|
|
harrygomm posted:i decided to record a clip every time some fuckery happened where i was shot while behind s corner, people jumped around screen, shots didnt register, etc. for my 25 games in trials i recorded 56 clips (really more than 56, some were just interested i misunderstood what had happened) across those games. thats halo: i levels of bad It's infuriating. Last season I enjoyed PvP, this season I am about to quit for the season. - No new PvP guns this season (lol @ the Trials scout) - Two maps nobody likes. - The matchmaking is somehow even WORSE than last season. - The lag is so bad that I have lost multiple games just because some guy is lagging so hard that every bolt from a fusion does no damage, and then he suddenly rubberbands/warps behind me and shoots me in the face. - The lag is so bad that mele whiffs happen MORE than last season somehow.  PvP in this game is a fat loving joke and Bungie should be ashamed of themselves for the
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 20:09
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:It's infuriating. Last season I enjoyed PvP, this season I am about to quit for the season. network's been perfectly fine for me, no lag or matchmaking issues at all Bobby Deluxe posted:
well, hang on. Isn't this actually consistent? If normal activities have a legendary hardmode, and dungeons/raids base difficulty is legendary... isn't that a sign that they are, in fact, harder than normal activities
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
Mazerunner posted:network's been perfectly fine for me, no lag or matchmaking issues at all If you are on steam, you aren't experiencing crossplay very often and the lag will be minimal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:15
|
|
|
Yeah, connections are notoriously bad this season with a ton of zero damage melee and Vanishing Fusion or shotgun blasts. I actually think they did an amazing job of putting new weapons to chase in the various PVP modes though, between actual new guns and updated, way better perk pools on existing guns Dungeons and Raids are by default on Legend difficulty, and their hard mode is master, and they are done this way because Legend and master both put a special modifier on enemy health and damage that is unrelated to and unaffected by power level Enemies in things like strikes and Gambit and psyops Battle Ground have the same health and damage values as Patrol,. You are right that they should and could simplify this to just call them normal and hard because they don't even use the same power levels that Legend and master correspond with in night Falls. Legend is a difficulty setting, legendary is a Halo reference used in the name of the legendary campaign, a specific activity. You run the legendary campaign, you don't run the campaign on legendary
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:22
|
|
|
ilifinicus posted:I'm new so I'm a bit stuck on this one, is this a "hold the button is more comfortable" situation? Cause I'm in the camp where holding the button is painful for me and I prefer to tap and adjust with a Pulse Rifle I've not heard holding buttons to be as common of an accessibility problem, but it's good that it would be a setting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
Firmly Planted on fusions got the nerf bat in the hotfix.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:28
|
|
|
So did glaive stunlocking, rip me soloing the boss of vox obscura
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
RIP glaives.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 21:43
|
|