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Terrible Opinions posted:The Imperial forces should all have the wacky random failure tables they've given to chaos and orks throughout the series. "Your Space Marine believes they may have heard someone in the immediate vicinity mention Chaos, possibly in a favorable manner. Please remain in the area for the impending orbital strike."
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Mar 30, 2022 19:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And the real funny thing is that none of this poo poo is necessary when you just have humans. Mind you, apparently elves and dwarves and orcs were apparently begrudging additions to D&D that Gygax supposedly resented when he just wanted Conan style fantasy adventure. (Which of course has its own problems) I think a lot of what becomes gross and racist about orcs and other fantasy races stems precisely from Gygax deciding to use them as stand-ins for Howard's Picts, Hyrkanians, Stygians, and the like.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:54
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Tibalt posted:Yeah, generally it was viewed as missing the point/joke of Orks - they're an entire species of the most perfect warrior predators, Arsenal Fans. The reality of an Ork invasion would be as terrifying and miserable for the civilian population as an Eldar, Imperial, or Chaos invasion. I still wanna know what the Krorks were like, and the currently focused on Octarius War is giving us another glimpse at what large organizations of Orks are like.
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Mar 30, 2022 20:22
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The core of 40K is black political humor/commentary featuring a bunch of civilizations that are cartoonishly horrid to live in and operate in a perpetual state of a pre-apocalypse that somehow never quite happens. Its writers have spent a long time burying the underlying silliness at the root of it with a gothic space opera preying on the audience's continuing fascination with He-Man and Transformers. Stuff like the "Dark Angels" faction being led by "Lion'el Johnson" and being concerned with some kind of deep secret about their true nature that they are very embarrassed about is still there. But mostly as Tibalt says, you pick which faction you like the aesthetics and attitude of to stand on top of the skulls.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:42
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah orks do not by and large have mass production of any kind. They have excellent mechanics for repairing stuff and making individual grand projects like the gargants, but they don't really make their own stuff. This is also rather wrong; Orks have built-in knowledge enough that most tend to build their own guns, which are crude but functional- the 'gestalt psychic field' thing is massively overstated by fans and some writers. Dark Heresy specifically has Ork weaponry be usable by humans, though it's unreliable.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:31
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So is 'Red Wunz Go Fasta' derived from the common belief (fact?) that red cars are more likely to be stopped for speeding?
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Mar 31, 2022 02:46
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Orks have a Mad Max recycled/jury-rigged aesthetic that allows them to make a functional version of anything anyone else uses, that sometimes actually works better. If it's unstable and randomly kills and maims smaller orks when you turn it on, they've only achieved parity with everyone else's technology. For some reason it makes a section of ork fans really mad that it's ever implied that the mostly-comedy faction's technology only works because they collectively believe it works, even though everyone's technology in 40K is equally as silly as that. The second option widely presented is that a given percentage of orks are engineered with an innate and almost subconscious ability to just build whatever they need to.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:52
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The second option widely presented is that a given percentage of orks are engineered with an innate and almost subconscious ability to just build whatever they need to. I mean this is literally canon, Meks and Doks have an intuitive calling to engineering and medicine respectively as part of how a fully functioning Ork community can literally spring out of the ground from spores given enough time.
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Mar 31, 2022 03:45
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Orks
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Mar 31, 2022 07:44
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Orks have a Mad Max recycled/jury-rigged aesthetic that allows them to make a functional version of anything anyone else uses, that sometimes actually works better. If it's unstable and randomly kills and maims smaller orks when you turn it on, they've only achieved parity with everyone else's technology. The second option is the one that’s textually true. Orks are an engineered race of supersoldiers that long outlived their creators. Part of the way they’re designed to function is having intuitive grasp of primitive technology that gets the job done. They DO have psychic powers as well but they aren’t literally relying on it to make everything work. They don’t need to.
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Mar 31, 2022 08:24
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It's worth noting that Orks themselves never waste much time debating any of this, they're far too busy having fun. What would be a crushing existential uncertainty for many humans is not even an afterthought to Orks.
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Mar 31, 2022 10:39
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In Warhammer, the Warp interacts with the subconscious in such a way that, at least with orks, belief influences reality. The Chaos deities are manifestations of the universe's collected pathos and desperation - it's internally consistent that another approach might produce smaller, individual results. Or maybe orks just paint their fastest vehicles red. It's a good setting when you can still have a fun mystery after 30+ years of world building.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:01
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This has all drifted far afield from tabletop gaming politics, but I feel like it's worth noting that 'orc technology working on clap-your-hands-if-you-believe' being dubiously canonical is actually excellent, because it means that the playerbase's thinking that ork technology works because orks believe it works may possibly be true-ish because the playerbase believes it's true. More topically, Dave Morris appears to have settled down to the occasional snide side-sniping about the whole 'my dead idol who wrote the neo-nazi novel was no nazi and anyone who thinks otherwise is the real nazis' thing, but he HAS posted one undoubtedly political and obviously false statement: https://twitter.com/RealDaveMorris/status/1509215848984190977?cxt=HHwWgoC9gbH05_EpAAAA  lies Drakyn fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 15:44
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moths posted:In Warhammer, the Warp interacts with the subconscious in such a way that, at least with orks, belief influences reality. The Chaos deities are manifestations of the universe's collected pathos and desperation - it's internally consistent that another approach might produce smaller, individual results. Isn't it basically implied that the Chaos factions are directly fueled by the very actions the Imperium and others take, directly fueling the Chaos factions through the mind-numbingly insane dystopian world they want to achieve?
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Mar 31, 2022 16:06
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CommieGIR posted:Isn't it basically implied that the Chaos factions are directly fueled by the very actions the Imperium and others take, directly fueling the Chaos factions through the mind-numbingly insane dystopian world they want to achieve? More than implied, though the factions themselves are just one aspect of the existential, all-pervasive nature of chaos in the setting.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:10
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Yeah, it's part of the overarching theme that endless war isn't the answer. If the Imperium spent resources on infrastructure and care of its citizens the way it does war, Chaos would evaporate in a generation.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:15
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moths posted:Yeah, it's part of the overarching theme that endless war isn't the answer. If the Imperium spent resources on infrastructure and care of its citizens the way it does war, Chaos would evaporate in a generation. And yet endless war is the premise of the game about endless battles for which you should buy and paint miniatures/run various RPG campaigns.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:16
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Absurd Alhazred posted:And yet endless war is the premise of the game about endless battles for which you should buy and paint miniatures/run various RPG campaigns. Endless War is now Endless Infrastructure Week. Like Sim City 2000 but with crazy space Catholics.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:16
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40k just a different kind of tabletop game. Although it does make me think of how the Halo books went out of their way to establish Earth as fascist to explain how they had such a developed space military to fight the Covenant with. (but also the fascism of Earth was justified by the anti-earth rebels doing a 9/11). The games didn't have anything about Earth being fascist and were just straightforward space army fights the bad and corrupt aliens until the game series switched developers.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:19
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CommieGIR posted:Endless War is now Endless Infrastructure Week. In the grim darkness of the future, there is only scaffolding.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:22
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CommieGIR posted:Endless War is now Endless Infrastructure Week. You ever notice in Sim City 2000 that churches pop up on (I want to say) residential zoned tiles, but if you go and demolish the church, the land underneath is no longer zoned? It's been crazy christians all along, friends 
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Mar 31, 2022 16:24
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moths posted:Yeah, it's part of the overarching theme that endless war isn't the answer. If the Imperium spent resources on infrastructure and care of its citizens the way it does war, Chaos would evaporate in a generation. I'm not entirely sure that's actually true. For one thing the endless war really only supercharges Khorne and maybe Nurgle.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:42
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Telsa Cola posted:I'm not entirely sure that's actually true. For one thing the endless war really only supercharges Khorne and maybe Nurgle.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:48
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Slanesh is Vogon?
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Mar 31, 2022 17:49
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The monotony of "endless" fuels Slaanesh and the hopelessness is high octane Tzeentch fuel. It's not just the war, it's also the imperium's crushing oppression.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:50
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moths posted:The monotony of "endless" fuels Slaanesh and the hopelessness is high octane Tzeentch fuel. No, thats wrong on both accounts. Slaanesh gets off on sensation and emotional excess. Tzeentch is literally the god of change and plans. Hope and the ability to change your future falls into this. Hoplessness (in part) and stasis is Nurgles deal and why he is opposed to Tzeentch. Nurgle is about the inevitablility of death and decay which is also why it's funny that he is the "nicest" of the lot. This is all moot point though, humans are all baseline reasonably psychic active, are heavily implied to becoming more psychically active as the years go on, and are incredibly numerous. The Warp is always going to be an issue for them, especially given the reliance on it for travel and communication. The Emperor's plan to deal with this was to basically shunt everyone into/rely heavily on the shielded webway and avoid that poo poo all together. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 18:03
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My understanding is that, at the time of their birth, Slaanesh was the strongest due to glutting themselves on a hedonistic race of super psychic space elves. But by the time of 40k "there is only war" so they have fallen into last place. At the same time, I read a Slaanesh sourcebook once which has this to say: "One day, Khorne will run out of foes, Nurgle’s tally of plagues will be completed, and Tzeentch’s schemes shall reach their conclusion. None, however, can foresee a time when men shall set aside their darkest passions and selfish desires and forego that which they most crave." Makes sense to me.
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Mar 31, 2022 18:20
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Telsa Cola posted:No, thats wrong on both accounts. It's aspirational - the monotony of imperial life fuels desires, for both excess stimulation and dramatic change
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Mar 31, 2022 18:25
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Absurd Alhazred posted:In the grim darkness of the future, there is only scaffolding. Idleness begets heresy, and lack of affordable public transportation begets idleness. Build LRT out to the suburbs, and improve subway and bus stations in the downtown core, in the Emperor's Name. Suffer not to exist the xeno, the mutant, or the traffic jam.
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Mar 31, 2022 18:55
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Telsa Cola posted:Hopelessness (in part) and stasis is Nurgles deal and why he is opposed to Tzeentch. Nurgle is about the inevitablility of death and decay which is also why it's funny that he is the "nicest" of the lot.
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Mar 31, 2022 19:25
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Nurgle is nice in the way that misery loves company: If you'll walk towards the cultists with open arms while loudly proclaiming your loneliness and despair you'll get a hug (and much more) If OTOH you resist or attempt to debate the issue you'll find out Papa Nurgle is an abusive dad.
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Mar 31, 2022 19:30
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm curious, how does Nurgle's "niceness" manifest itself? Like, I always see him described as a loving God in a way that Khorne never is, so I get the general idea. Nurgle wants his subjects alive and thriving in the same way that successful viruses keep their hosts alive long enough to spread
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Mar 31, 2022 19:37
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It's important to remember that Nurgle takes the pain away but not the illness and gradually your body wastes away, holding together only by the power of the Warp. So his love is expressed by turning you into a walking bioweapon factory. But at least you'll never get lonely again.
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Mar 31, 2022 19:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:In the grim darkness of the future, there is only scaffolding. Is that the premise of Necromunda?
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Mar 31, 2022 19:42
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Nurgle is Love
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Mar 31, 2022 19:44
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NikkolasKing posted:My understanding is that, at the time of their birth, Slaanesh was the strongest due to glutting themselves on a hedonistic race of super psychic space elves. I think it's outright stated that Slaanesh was one of the weakest after both Nurgle and Khorne beat up Slaanesh to take their pick of the Eldar gods.
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Mar 31, 2022 19:54
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nurgle cares about you for more than just your blood and your skull or your experience of pleasure and pain or your hubris nurgle thinks all of you is neat, even the bits that don't have a weird infection yet somehow
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Mar 31, 2022 20:22
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Drakyn posted:https://twitter.com/RealDaveMorris/status/1509215848984190977?cxt=HHwWgoC9gbH05_EpAAAA This unfettered arsehole. The ducks are a vital point of levity in what can be a very serious setting, and they are still fun to play as "straight men" to a lot of what is going on. I don't get people who get so hung up on how "silly" ducks are, when compared with elves, dwarves and halflings.
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Mar 31, 2022 21:33
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On the topic of 40K (but also sci-fi/fantasy in general) I've always found the the conceit of "these space racist humans aren't prejudice against ethnicities because they're too busy being space racist towards aliens" to be rather dubious (even if totally understandable from a marketing perspective). It's not like 19th century U.S. was too tuckered out from genociding Native Americans and enslaving Africans to not also be hella racist towards Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese, Jews, Hispanics, etc.
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Apr 1, 2022 00:46
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SirPhoebos posted:On the topic of 40K (but also sci-fi/fantasy in general) I've always found the the conceit of "these space racist humans aren't prejudice against ethnicities because they're too busy being space racist towards aliens" to be rather dubious (even if totally understandable from a marketing perspective). To be fair, I suspect racism in the 40k universe no doubt influences who gets genocided or sacrificed.
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Apr 1, 2022 00:48
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