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Personally I think the world we're living in right now is one in which they can and will restart student loan payments this year. It's something the Biden administration actively wants to do and I think they'll probably find an opening. Media talking heads will rationalize it, and I suspect many people who otherwise say differently now will likely accept those excuses
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Apr 1, 2022 07:28
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I think the world we're living in right now is one in which they can and will restart student loan payments this year. It's something the Biden administration actively wants to do and I think they'll probably find an opening. Media talking heads will rationalize it, and I suspect many people who otherwise say differently now will likely accept those excuses I agree with you. Just like the eviction mortarium, the investor/land lord class really hated it, but it had populist support. hence the token effort the admin put into keeping it going. On the topic of student loan forgiveness, alot of these school have huge endowments and I feel its best to force the schools endowments to help with the forgiveness along, with some labor protections. Not every job needs a degree, and saddling people with debit just loving drags them down.
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Apr 1, 2022 10:37
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I think the world we're living in right now is one in which they can and will restart student loan payments this year. It's something the Biden administration actively wants to do and I think they'll probably find an opening. Media talking heads will rationalize it, and I suspect many people who otherwise say differently now will likely accept those excuses Almost certainly going to be something about making those lazy spoiled millennials get off their asses and get back to work for those struggling small business owners.
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Apr 1, 2022 10:42
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Bottom Liner posted:I don't see a possible world where they can reinstate student loan payments this year. Especially with other CoL areas being so high. Whoever does pull that trigger down the road will be cutting their own throat and they know it. The real cynical play would be to turn us into the next DREAMers Dems too scared to go all the way with it, republicans smart enough to not do anything drastic. Full disclosure: my debt load is substantial
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Apr 1, 2022 10:52
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UCS Hellmaker posted:That's the thing, you want to cement a fairly large part of the population to be rank and file dems? Actually do something with student loans because we all loving hate them. It literally has saved me 400 dollars a month to not deal with my spouses while I finished school these last two years, which made it easier for me to pay my way, fix things, get a nex place to rent, and find a decent job I enjoy. That adds up hard for people and it's a driving thing that affects millions of people and their ability to do anything. And the purity test have pushed out the sane voices and left us with screaming idiots. Remember 2010? Remember the tea party pandering? gently caress Doug Jones won because of the purity tests that happened. Harry Reid won reelection in 2014 because of the purity tests. There are many more cases of the same thing happening and you are screaming in here that Dems should enforce the same thing, instead of focusing on local politics and movements that have been shown to excite voters and engage them, winning elections in areas they don't tend to have chances at
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Apr 1, 2022 11:07
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I guess I just don't see how you can realistically make the argument that "oh they're not going to gently caress us over on this, it would be electoral suicide" like that means something. It's electoral suicide to not enact voting rights protection and they're not doing that, and that's something that directly affects their ability to remain in office, much less something upstream that they can talk themselves out of, and they're still not going to do poo poo about thatGhost Leviathan posted:Almost certainly going to be something about making those lazy spoiled millennials get off their asses and get back to work for those struggling small business owners. I'm sure there'll be some of that but I think the rationale is way more likely to be that, actually, it's really electorally smart to restart student loan payments because if you do a superficial read of polls X/Y/Z, you'll find that there's a major voting bloc waiting out there who will rise up and punish the Democrats if they do anything useful about student debt because apparently that's some people's #1 issue(it's absolutely not lmao). Posters in previous iterations of this thread were already starting to push that line when it looked like the pause was going to expire in February and I expect that's what'll get dusted off to excuse it when they pull the trigger, be it in May or sometime later It collapses pretty quickly if you think about it for a minute, but the point of the rationale is so you don't have to think about it, you can simply repeat it as you solemnly shake your drat head
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Apr 1, 2022 11:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Almost certainly going to be something about making those lazy spoiled millennials get off their asses and get back to work for those struggling small business owners. Yeah if we're being told that work from home needs to end for the sake of the economy despite the rising gas prices (and rising everything prices, really), then it doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to picture the rhetoric about how those millennials just need to work harder to get themselves out of debt.
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Apr 1, 2022 12:18
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I think the world we're living in right now is one in which they can and will restart student loan payments this year. It's something the Biden administration actively wants to do and I think they'll probably find an opening. Media talking heads will rationalize it, and I suspect many people who otherwise say differently now will likely accept those excuses
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Apr 1, 2022 12:25
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Gumball Gumption posted:Ahh ok you didn't misunderstand, you misread. As you can see Flaming Liberal cited multiple things together that would influence favorability. I'm also not exactly sure how "This person thinks only campaign promises effect favorability which is shockingly wrong" leads to "Look, Joe Biden did this thing which you say he didn't" but I can't read your mind so I'm sure you understand your thought process. These are the two previous sentences that you had cut out of my quote: Kalit posted:How was it obvious that FlamingLiberal was talking about campaign promises? The only context they gave was that they quoted a post about the drop in Biden's favorable rating. Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 13:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:I don't think Biden has actually done anything here besides being president at the same time the department of education took action on established policy. We're talking policy that was updated and finalized by Obama in 2016, renegotiated by Trump, and as far as I can tell this has not been updated under Biden yet. The investigations into DeVry and other for profit schools also started in 2016. I don't think administrations should really be getting credit for things that are the result of long government processes if their main involvement was being alive at the same time. The Department of Education has cancelled $415 million in student loans during Biden's administration as part of regular operations, Joe Biden through direct effort has cancelled 0. Biden did update the policy and reform the PSLF program process to allow the DOE to pre-certify your PSLF time and automatically discharge the remaining loan balances. It went from a 97% rejection rate under Devos to 99% acceptance rate under Cardona. And Trump didn't "renegotiate" the Obama-era policy of forgiving loans for for-profit schools, he ended it unless they were convicted of criminal fraud. Biden reinstated the Obama-era policy of flat forgiveness if the school "mislead" or didn't have a job placement rate in-line with other schools. He also started a policy of forgiving student loans for people who become disabled after graduation. The PSLF and disability changes are huge for people who qualify for that, but other than that, he hasn't done much in a broad sense on student loans. It has been several specific targeted changes.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:44
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Signaling something we already know people aren't believing seems like a really bad strategy. It would really support the theory that they, in a collective sense, don't care if they lose as long as the donations keep flowing. I truly hope they take a better way.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:45
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I honestly don't see a lot of evidence that not forgiving student loans will hurt Biden... directly. (Indirectly, a more economically comfortable population is always a benefit to popularity.) Like, the child tax credit going away didn't see to hurt his approval ratings. Instead of being mad that they stopped receiving $300 (or even over a thousand dollars a month for big families) people melted down about paying an extra $200 a month for gas. Thanks to decades of conditioning and centuries of an individualistic culture, Americans simply don't expect anything from the government. "Oh, that nice bit of extra money was nice, but it was temporary - that's fine." Everybody likes not paying their loans, so the student loan moratorium is popular, but I think most Americans, god bless 'em, just think "I took out a loan, I should pay it back, because that's what you do with loans" without critically examining how stupid it was that they had to "pay" for college in the first place, or how much forgiving the loans would hurt literally no one but a few rotten rentiers who service them. Forgiving student loans is an absolute no-brainer from a policy standpoint, and something Biden can do without Congress, so obviously he should be doing it. And yes, some people would have some warm fuzzies about the Democratic party if he did it. But you would also have people who have loans but just intractably hate Democrats, people who think it's "rewarding laziness" or morally wrong, people who think it's contributing to inflation, people who don't think of their student loans as a political issue at all. Hell, direct universal stimulus, as in sending everybody a check of free money, barely polls better than 50% these days, so what do you think somebody might think about the government giving me $80,000 while they get nothing? I can't explain how Americans think but I do notice that they do think very differently from me. It's nice to think "Oh, Biden's going to PAY for [bad policy]" but sometimes the bad policy is just bad, but not especially politically unpopular. Surely you guys must be used to that phenomenon by now, right? Biden should forgive the student loans because it's the right thing to do, but it's not electoral suicide to not do so, nor an electoral panacea to do it.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:46
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Ups_rail posted:I agree with you. Tbh it's not equal to the eviction thing. That they basically got told they can't enforce by the supreme court, and had landlords and big investment screaming because they wanted to throw poor people out. Student loan repayment is only for public loans right now, so the only people not getting paid is the feds, and there appears to be precedent that you can just keep postponing payments because the doe literally owns the loans and sets those terms. If this effected private loans to there likely would be way more rumbling about how this needs to be stopped and freeloaders need to pay. And the schools seem to be dealing with their endowments being stolen by white collar fraud so they will never do poo poo to help the students ( they never loving did before or will)
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Apr 1, 2022 13:46
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I think the world we're living in right now is one in which they can and will restart student loan payments this year. It's something the Biden administration actively wants to do and I think they'll probably find an opening. Media talking heads will rationalize it, and I suspect many people who otherwise say differently now will likely accept those excuses Klein already said they won't restart student loan payments until they "do something" long-term about student loan debt. Although, they never defined what "doing something" and "long-term" mean. Maybe they will do something moderately significant, like waive interest, and call that doing something. Or maybe they will do some performative thing and use that as an excuse to do it. But, the pause is almost certainly getting extended at least one more time and they will probably continue to kick the can down the road until after the elections.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Klein already said they won't restart student loan payments until they "do something" long-term about student loan debt. Although, they never defined what "doing something" and "long-term" mean. Maybe they will do something moderately significant, like waive interest, and call that doing something. Or maybe they will do some performative thing and use that as an excuse to do it. I also saw an article (from Time) that reported that the administration has told loan servicers not to send out notices that payments will resume in May (and they are statutorily required to send at least six such notices before payments resume). So that's a pretty big indicator that they're going to extend the moratorium again. I wasn't able to find anybody else phrasing it as a fait accompli as much as Time has but it seems like pretty solid evidence. (Link: https://time.com/6160275/student-loan-moratorium-expiration-may/) For people who don't think they're going to extend the moratorium again... did you think they would in January?
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Apr 1, 2022 13:54
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Mellow Seas posted:I also saw an article (from Time) that reported that the administration has told loan servicers not to send out notices that payments will resume in May (and they are statutorily required to send at least six such notices before payments resume). So that's a pretty big indicator that they're going to extend the moratorium again. I wasn't able to find anybody else phrasing it as a fait accompli as much as Time has but it seems like pretty solid evidence. Last month, Klain already basically said they would keep extending the moratorium "until we do something" about student loan debt. So, at least one more time is nearly certain. quote:Klain: White House may extend freeze on student loan payments again quote:“Joe Biden right now is the only president in history where no one’s paid on their student loans for the entirety of his presidency,” Klain said, adding that the White House would make a decision on whether to use executive action to cancel student debt “before the payments resume.” quote:Klain’s remarks are the clearest public comments from any Biden administration official in recent weeks indicating that the Education Department may further extend the freeze on federal student loan payments and interest. Klain basically said they are going to "figure out" what they can/should do executively on student loans "later on" and will keep extending the pause until then. So, our broken government institutions being unable to do anything might be dysfunctional in a good way on this issue. tl;dr: Don't expect executive action on student debt anytime soon, but don't expect to have to start paying again soon either. quote:“Right now, people aren’t having to pay on their loans and so I think dealing with the executive branch question — what we should do about that, what his powers are, how much we should do on that — that’s something we’re going to deal with later on,” Klain said in the interview. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/04/white-house-freeze-student-loan-payments-00014111
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Apr 1, 2022 14:02
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I don’t understand how they don’t have an answer on this after more than a year
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Apr 1, 2022 14:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t understand how they don’t have an answer on this after more than a year Shot in the dark guess: see if they gain an extra senator or two over midterms (  ) and then pass it through congress. When that fails, maybe Biden will finally attempt the Executive Order route?
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Apr 1, 2022 14:10
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Kalit posted:Shot in the dark guess: see if they gain an extra senator or two over midterms ( Opposite of this, they wait until they lose a senator over midterms then say it's impossible because of Republican senate
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Apr 1, 2022 14:12
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The answer is to extend the payment moratorium indefinitely and make the GOP the ones to start them back up. Tell everyone that you can get a loan for school, and never pay it back unless the republicans make you. Promise that with a democrat in office they will remain suspended indefinitely.
Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 14:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t understand how they don’t have an answer on this after more than a year If they're not going to forgive principals, here are a some potential workarounds: 1. Extend the moratorium for as long as Biden is in office. 2. When the moratorium ends, set minimum payments at something incredibly low like 1% of income (which would be a $25 payment for somebody making 30k), or maybe 5% of monthly income above $2000 or something (also a $25 payment for a 30k earner.) 3. (Comedy option) Eliminate any penalties to your credit rating for defaulting on your student loans, and everybody defaults. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 14:15
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VitalSigns posted:Why should we enact purity tests? No seriously tell me how that is constructive to the health of the party when we see how that has worked with the gop Incredibly well, attracting record breaking numbers of voters? The purity tests got the purity testers everything they wanted and rebuilt the party in their image, with the former 'moderates' being hunted for sport and publicly humiliated to universal glee because they are no longer wanted or needed.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:16
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t understand how they don’t have an answer on this after more than a year It's because kicking the can down the road is much easier than actually doing something. They were expecting Biden to be running a victory lap after beating Covid, getting the economy moving and everyone getting paychecks/stability again, and starting on their second reconciliation bill after BBB passed to do some minimal student loan changes (most likely his campaign plan to just convert all existing loans into new IBR loans which cap monthly payments at 5% of your discretionary income and are forgiven after 10 years). With a booming economy and lowering everyone's monthly payments to very low levels, there wouldn't be much pressure to do full forgiveness and the government wouldn't need to find a new source of revenue for Medicaid expansion. But, that didn't happen, so they are just extending the moratorium over and over because they don't think congress would pass a new Medicaid expansion funding mechanism and Biden doesn't want to have a Medicaid funding crisis on his hands with a congress apparently unable to do anything. He values avoiding the Medicaid problem because he cares more about that than student loans, but he also doesn't want to take the political heat for failing to do anything on student loans and giving up. So, he is just going to kick the can down the road and hope that some opportunity/deus ex machina comes by to "do something" eventually. Because kicking the can down the road doesn't cost anything, box him in politically, make anyone mad, or create a new legislative problem for him.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:17
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Mellow Seas posted:I think it's very possible that they have determined that announcing that student loans are not being forgiven, and announcing that they are, would both be generally unpopular moves (politics are really stupid these days!), so they're just doing this instead. 3 is a requirement if they just suspended the payments as a perk of electing democrats.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Incredibly well, attracting record breaking numbers of voters? The purity tests got the purity testers everything they wanted and rebuilt the party in their image, with the former 'moderates' being hunted for sport and publicly humiliated to universal glee because they are no longer wanted or needed.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:20
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I think it's probably good to purity test for things that have broadly popular support and bad to purity test for racism.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:28
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The answer is to extend the payment moratorium indefinitely and make the GOP the ones to start them back up. Tell everyone that you can get a loan for school, and never pay it back unless the republicans make you. Promise that with a democrat in office they will remain suspended indefinitely. It would perfectly fit the Democrats' MO to not do anything permanent about it and just dangle it over voters' heads as a not so subtle threat, yeah.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:37
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The answer is to extend the payment moratorium indefinitely and make the GOP the ones to start them back up. Tell everyone that you can get a loan for school, and never pay it back unless the republicans make you. Promise that with a democrat in office they will remain suspended indefinitely. Since it's inevitable that republicans will eventually be back in power at some point I would rather have the dems remove the guillotine over my head instead of being told by them that the lever will only be pulled if someone else is in charge.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's because kicking the can down the road is much easier than actually doing something.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:40
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Just in case anyone was still curious: It turns out that the horse version of Ivermectin will poison you and the human version does nothing against Covid. Feels like one of those studies they do to confirm that vitamin C doesn't cure cancer. Everyone pretty much already knew that and the people who think it does won't stop anyway, but they spent a year and $2.4 million to scientifically prove it just to be sure. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1509275585209589769
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Apr 1, 2022 14:45
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Fister Roboto posted:It would perfectly fit the Democrats' MO to not do anything permanent about it and just dangle it over voters' heads as a not so subtle threat, yeah. Well I don't see them having the ability to actually do anything about the actual debt because of the Senate. Extending the payment moratorium indefinitely and daring the GOP to bring them back seems like the best possible outcome at the moment.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:45
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just in case anyone was still curious: It turns out that the horse version of Ivermectin will poison you and the human version does nothing against Covid. Suckers. The beef flavored dog version is the tastiest.
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Apr 1, 2022 14:47
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Fister Roboto posted:It would perfectly fit the Democrats' MO to not do anything permanent about it and just dangle it over voters' heads as a not so subtle threat, yeah. TBH, I would be shocked if student loan payments had a significant number of single issue voters. Definitely not even close enough to change the outcome of an election. So if they wanted to try to use it as a threat for the sole purpose of remaining in office, it seems like it would probably be extremely ineffective Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 14:48
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just in case anyone was still curious: It turns out that the horse version of Ivermectin will poison you and the human version does nothing against Covid.
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Apr 1, 2022 15:07
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Mellow Seas posted:A Bible with all the LIBERAL stuff taken out? Browse through the youth targeted study bibles at a Christian bookstore some time and you’ll find some decent templates to work from.
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Apr 1, 2022 15:23
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Lol I forgot what day it is
Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 15:28
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Mellow Seas posted:A Bible with all the LIBERAL stuff taken out? Didn't the conservapedia guy literally do this?
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Apr 1, 2022 15:28
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Rappaport posted:Didn't the conservapedia guy literally do this?  e: I also bet that if Conservapedia ever finishes their Bible, they're going to push it as "this is the TRUE word of God and we put years of scholarly work into it, Bibles don't get any more accurate than this!" Mine would be, "gently caress you, who cares about historical translation, ours has Trump on the cover." Ctrl-F for "compassion" and "mercy" and similar concepts, and anything with wieners, and drag it all to the trash like the "scary numbers" on "Severance." Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 15:33
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oh, hello there
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Apr 1, 2022 15:43
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so who is going to start chain probing their posting enemies
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