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Tony Tone posted:I have to know how one can notice an effect on "air quality" indoors unless you're one of the majority of clueless dipshits who always have their windows closed (which probably means you're extremely dependent on AC, in which case gently caress you for an eternity). If you leave windows open in the central valley you will be getting some nice valley fever whenever wind kicks up dust.
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Mar 28, 2022 20:07
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Leon Sumbitches posted:I think there are concrete consequences of climate change we should prepare for including displaced populations due to sea level rise, famine due to hardiness zones changing, resource wars between nations, and so on. Like you said, there are many of large looming problems and I might be oversimplifying but I think many are addressed in a similar way at the personal level: providing mental health care I'm a variety of modalities, promoting community, ensuring equitable distribution of resources, shifting towards a more localized food system meant to nourish, and the list goes on. I've found environmental/climate issues (in a non specialist sense) to be a great conversational tool in bar conversations. It's a great way to demand personal involvement and unequivocally highlight the failure of our current world. Things will always be hard or unfair, sure, but we know we're destroying our world in the name of enriching [people you don't like] and that's why we have to advocate for massive change. You also find out who's an absolute shithead who doesn't believe in/ care about climate change. *Edit* what I'm getting at is: while it's difficult for anybody to to not only understand, but deal with the many aspects of our impact on the climate... it's also difficult (here where I live anyway) for people to outright deny it. Hammering that point home from a place of both alarmingly reality and a sense of human indignation can transcend some political affiliations. Getting to where we need to be on climate will mean discomfort or sacrifice, and it's won't happen without people adopting an attitude of willingness or acceptance to change their world on behalf of the future. I talk about it like I want to fight. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 29, 2022 18:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYFGSjPl2bM
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Apr 2, 2022 18:48
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Hard not to take that as a challenge!
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Apr 2, 2022 21:35
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A more lighthearted take on things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxgMdjyw8uw
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Apr 5, 2022 18:19
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ephex posted:A more lighthearted take on things: Yeah, but again most of these countries are now falling back on Coal and Natural Gas as they shutter the actual load carrying low-carbon solutions like Nuclear.
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Apr 5, 2022 18:27
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ephex posted:A more lighthearted take on things: I saw this. Note the creator's lack of usual litany of current citations. ^^ As pointed out, outside a few exemplars, governments have given in to economic panic over the obvious death of Endless Growth™, and they're reaching for everything from state-subsidized fossil extraction speculation to cheap fossil power to bridge the gap. Note further Monday's IPCC Mitigating publication: quote:According to the report, Climate Change 2022: Mitigation of Climate Change, which was released on Monday, if urgent action is not taken, humanity will fail to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit), the threshold for a future of more fires, drought, storms, and more. At their presently rising levels, however, greenhouse gas emissions are likely to create twice as much warming: approximately 3.2°C (5.7°F) by 2100. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/now-or-never-un-climate-report-urgent-takeaways The following is a  personal opinion The mitigation working group considers the information available to that video's creator. I don't think you have to go much farther than the top-billed comments on Kurgzesagt's video to understand its purpose, especially if you're familiar with the backlash against their prior video that essentially concluded, "Well, get politically active but also start mourning." Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 18:33
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ephex posted:A more lighthearted take on things: If by light hearted you mean dumb as poo poo, sure.
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Apr 5, 2022 19:37
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LionArcher posted:If by light hearted you mean dumb as poo poo, sure. As far as twenty minute overviews go... this is pretty good? There's nothing inaccurate here or even misleading. Kurzgesagt makes good stuff.
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Apr 5, 2022 20:47
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I had to go to Las Vegas for a work trip-- out to the extreme north edge of the "city" where the urban hell sprawl meets the desert. While driving through all of the various suburbs all I could think about was about how all of these houses will turn into basically tombs once the water runs out. I have zero idea how these people buying these homes have some sort of belief that the water will last forever. Of course that can be extrapolated towards a basic "I have zero idea people have some sort of belief that our culture in general will last forever..."
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Apr 5, 2022 21:23
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:As far as twenty minute overviews go... this is pretty good? There's nothing inaccurate here or even misleading. I could write five paragraphs about why it's not in fact good (and has some extremely weird thinking) or you could just go read the last few pages of the other thread, which cover it in more detail and break down of why it's in fact a dumb video.
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Apr 5, 2022 21:37
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ephex posted:A more lighthearted take on things: Thanks for posting this! The trends they speak on in this video comport with what I've seen within the climate / enviro advocacy space today. There is cause to be hopeful, and that only underscores the need to get involved in every level of society to keep up the pressure and keep calling for more and more accelerated change. The Hopelessness Trap is real, and it is very wicked and very compelling (especially if you already suffer from depression, as I do). But we can't lose ourselves to it. Losing yourself to hopelessness is losing a part of your humanity.
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Apr 5, 2022 21:47
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Yea, Climate change is eminently fixable, with the political will to do so, and while it's not getting their fast enough it's certainly on a upward trend. If you have a doomerbrain view of politics you're inevitable going to see that climate change is an unfixable issue because you see politics as an unfixable issue, and that every possible positive feedback or disaster event is going to happen. But we're eventually tame and stabilize the planets climate once again, just with more suffering than we need to get there.
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Apr 5, 2022 22:27
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Yea, Climate change is eminently fixable, with the political will to do so, and while it's not getting their fast enough it's certainly on a upward trend. If you have a doomerbrain view of politics you're inevitable going to see that climate change is an unfixable issue because you see politics as an unfixable issue, and that every possible positive feedback or disaster event is going to happen. But we're eventually tame and stabilize the planets climate once again, just with more suffering than we need to get there. I’d love to believe that but the odds are very good that in the USA we’re going to see the climate deniers take over Congress in 2023 and probably win the Presidency in 2024.
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Apr 5, 2022 23:09
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Yea, Climate change is eminently fixable, with the political will to do so, and while it's not getting their fast enough it's certainly on a upward trend. If you have a doomerbrain view of politics you're inevitable going to see that climate change is an unfixable issue because you see politics as an unfixable issue, and that every possible positive feedback or disaster event is going to happen. But we're eventually tame and stabilize the planets climate once again, just with more suffering than we need to get there. counter point. https://gizmodo.com/it-s-now-or-never-we-have-3-years-to-reverse-course-1848745616
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Apr 5, 2022 23:11
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LionArcher posted:counter point. yea thats to avoid a 1.5 C world, which isn't going to happen. I'm hopeful for a 2C world but that might not happen. But a 2C world, especially if we get to 2C and clawback, is manageable - it's expensive and we'd rather avoid it, because it will cause more human suffering than not. But the world will continue, and 2100 will still be a richer world than with higher standards of living on average than 2022. VideoGameVet posted:I’d love to believe that but the odds are very good that in the USA we’re going to see the climate deniers take over Congress in 2023 and probably win the Presidency in 2024. The US isn't the world. Europe is moving it's to net zero by 2050, helped by russia's current kick (I think europe will miss it, but by 5 years or less) and China has committed to net zero by 2060. Even in the US, total CO2 emissions have been trending downwards over the 10s even with a growing population and (barely) a growing economy. Business and consumer interest in climate change and sustainability continue, especially in finance centers. Climate action is here to stay, whether the republicans like it or not (not that republicans winning in 2024 isn't bad for the climate - it is. But it's not catastrophic)
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Apr 5, 2022 23:36
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Nothingtoseehere posted:But the world will continue, and 2100 will still be a richer world than with higher standards of living on average than 2022. Is that a defendable statement? Please defend it, because while I'm very much a layman I am mystified by that prediction. quote:Climate action is here to stay, whether the republicans like it or not (not that republicans winning in 2024 isn't bad for the climate - it is. But it's not catastrophic) Everything else sounds and reads to me like we wanted to avoid "catastrophic", but seemingly aren't and won't. Are we just redefining catastrophic? I never thought humans would go extinct, or that the earth would be obliterated from the cosmos, just that we'd change our world terribly and irreversibly* for the worse, to benefit the status quo and the wealthy at the expense of the masses and the future. *in the short term I guess what I'm saying is, I hope that if the worst climate predictions come to pass, the masses are too busy revolting and murdering the poo poo out of the powers that be for any of our current trends or sensibilities to even matter. Harold Fjord posted:Most of the poor people will be dead so.... Yeah this, if that happy resolution is the perpetrators developing anew over the unmarked graves of the powerless masses, I'd rather just see it all undone. If our world can't use the knowledge and power it has to correct course, but only to let the guilty cling to stability while damning us all along with them, it's no world to preserve. Last edit: feel like that reads crazy, but I am extremely mad and I can't figure out what I should remove. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 23:59
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BRJurgis posted:Is that a defendable statement? Please defend it, because while I'm very much a layman I am mystified by that prediction. Most of the poor people will be dead so.... Technically if you measure it right the wasteland survivors of Frostpunk are the wealthiest people in history
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Apr 6, 2022 00:00
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BRJurgis posted:Is that a defendable statement? Please defend it, because while I'm very much a layman I am mystified by that prediction. As defendable as any statement you can make about 80 years in the future. Middle-income and poor economies are going to keep growing, because their remains lots of untapped growth. The reason you probably don't feel it's true is related to the "elephant graph" below of global income growth over the past 30 years  For the bottom 95% in the west, our income growth over the past 30 years has been minimal - less than 1% a year. We're in the trough of the graph, and with how prices have changed over that time period (housing, education and healthcare are more expensive. Food and consumer goods are cheaper) it's very arguable that we feel poorer with worst living standards than we had 30 years ago, so me saying "in 80 years the world will be richer and higher standards of living" feels very wrong to your senses. But most of the world lives in than bottom 80%, where incomes has been growing much faster. It's economically better to be a Kenyan, Brazilian, Indian or Chinese person now than it was 20 years ago, and the reasons for that (lots of catch-up growth to steal/copy from the west, infrastructure to build with high value, stuff to extract) aren't going away in the next 80 years, unless they catch up to our standards of living.
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Apr 6, 2022 00:31
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Nothingtoseehere posted:As defendable as any statement you can make about 80 years in the future. Middle-income and poor economies are going to keep growing, because their remains lots of untapped growth. The reason you probably don't feel it's true is related to the "elephant graph" below of global income growth over the past 30 years But according to this theory, that would be a massive increase in production of energy and consumption, so how exactly is that going to be a good thing? Especially because one of the biggest things that's killing so many species/increasing cancer rates is plastic, used basically everywhere to make things cheaper for said under developed countries to reach similar standards of livings as us. 
LionArcher fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 01:21
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Thanks for the perspective. Still, ignoring the inherent injustice and logistical problems of increased crisises of refugees, resources, and war, are the new empires we're developing (under our current and seemingly future structure) going to take any better care of our only planet?
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Apr 6, 2022 01:25
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BRJurgis posted:Thanks for the perspective. Still, ignoring the inherent injustice and logistical problems of increased crisises of refugees, resources, and war, are the new empires we're developing (under our current The answer is life might be good for a few million people. But billions will die so they can have a good time.
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Apr 6, 2022 01:33
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Last to jump over this line wins. Lets tie-win, everybody! "agreed!" "Right-oh!" OK, on the count of three we all jump together, 1 2 3 jump! uh! nobody jumped. including me.
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Apr 6, 2022 02:05
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Lampsacus posted:Last to jump over this line wins. Lets tie-win, everybody! that's unfair. i have committed to jumping by 2050
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Apr 6, 2022 02:43
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The question isn't whether we can "fix" climate change. It's whether we can avoid passing the threshold where the feedback effects cascade out of our control. The so-called "point of no return", after which it wouldn't matter if we suddenly and magically got our emissions to zero.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:05
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:The question isn't whether we can "fix" climate change. This is where I think it's already too late. Because there's a lot of other climate poo poo happening besides warming that we also aren't addressing.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:11
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Nothingtoseehere posted:As defendable as any statement you can make about 80 years in the future. Middle-income and poor economies are going to keep growing, because their remains lots of untapped growth. The reason you probably don't feel it's true is related to the "elephant graph" below of global income growth over the past 30 years do you honestly believe this sort of growth is likely to continue as poo poo enters a 2C world? because i'm frankly not sure whether to call you profoundly ignorant or just taking the piss
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Apr 6, 2022 06:03
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Nothingtoseehere posted:it's certainly on a upward trend Citation needed
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Apr 6, 2022 06:16
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A big flaming stink posted:do you honestly believe this sort of growth is likely to continue as poo poo enters a 2C world? because i'm frankly not sure whether to call you profoundly ignorant or just taking the piss You would be surprised how easy it is to lift the standard of living in the poorest communities. A solar panel for a mobile phone and a mobile phone tower within range transforms the life and costs nothing. Improved farming technology continuing to filter to places with arable but underworked land. Improving literacy lifts an entire community if starting from a low base. Medical technology is getting vastly cheaper and disseminating further, hundreds of millions of ladies are just getting or yet to get their first ultrasound or even gynecological exam even after delivering multiple children. Blood chemistry machines are diagnosing ailments left unchecked until now. Cheap and effective satellite data making demographic decision making available to governments and administrations. Vaccine for malaria will save more kids lives each year than died to covid in its worst year. There are plenty of other examples. All this continues even as the temp increases. I think you are talking like someone coming from a rich country, have not travelled much and just have no concept of how the vast majority of the world lives or how technology has transformed their own countries over the last 30 to 50 years. Electric Wrigglies fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 09:35
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Electric Wrigglies posted:You would be surprised how easy it is to lift the standard of living in the poorest communities. A solar panel for a mobile phone and a mobile phone tower within range transforms the life and costs nothing. But... the countries that are most likely to experience the brunt of climate doom are poorer countries. No one was arguing that growth in the global south was not happening just expressing doubt that business as normal will continue in a 2c world. Living that severely on the precipice does mean improving standards of living is extremely cheap for big benefits but the opposite is also true.
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Apr 6, 2022 10:04
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Electric Wrigglies posted:I think you are talking like someone coming from a rich country, have not travelled much and just have no concept of how the vast majority of the world lives or how technology has transformed their own countries over the last 30 to 50 years. do you know why those countries and communities have such poor living standards right now? because the global north has viciously expropriated wealth from them for over a century! do you think this expropriation is going to slow down while the severe catastrophes of climate change ramp up?????????
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Apr 6, 2022 10:19
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What I am saying is that even something as simple as diagnosing easily treated disease early (say via blood chemistry work being available) will likely outweigh the impacts of climate change alone. The expected life of a Burkinabe has increased 10 years in the last 20 despite worsening climate (the Sahel is one of the early areas of impact for climate change). The global south is not close to utilising its land or global technology at its potential and doing that would ameliorate the negative push factors of climate change. Cripes, I don't live in the States but from what I understand, just making cheap medical diagnostic work free there would significantly better the lives of a lot of America more than climate change has impacted them to date.
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Apr 6, 2022 10:30
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Electric Wrigglies posted:climate change has impacted them to date. Theres a very important qualifier there in that sentence. I don't get how this is hard to understand. Supporting those measure that prop the global south up become infinitely less attractive when we're throwing money at them to rebuild things destroyed so they can continue supplying the imperial core. The equation is really going to change when people start wondering if uplifting brown people overseas is really worth it when miami is underwater and disneyland gets consumed by the latest unprecedented fire.
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Apr 6, 2022 10:44
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Electric Wrigglies posted:What I am saying is that even something as simple as diagnosing easily treated disease early (say via blood chemistry work being available) will likely outweigh the impacts of climate change alone. The expected life of a Burkinabe has increased 10 years in the last 20 despite worsening climate (the Sahel is one of the early areas of impact for climate change). The global south is not close to utilising its land or global technology at its potential and doing that would ameliorate the negative push factors of climate change. The infrastructure for all of that will wither on the vine as the Western world retreats into survival mode
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Apr 6, 2022 10:59
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Failed Imagineer posted:The infrastructure for all of that will wither on the vine as the Western world retreats into survival mode Especially when we do not have a refugee problem from climate in the west…. Yet. That’s the dirty little secret about a lot of these posts. Acting like we can keep doing the things we are doing without it leading to nazi like poo poo 2.0 that will be justified to keep our sovereign citizens “safe”. The great liberal spin of this thread and in the safe but lovely circles (New York times types) is that if you bring up where this is headed without major change, you’re labeled a doomer, when you’re actually just pointing out where this is all obviously going. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 17:32
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LionArcher posted:Especially when we do not have a refugee problem from climate in the west…. Yet. We do. The past years of immigration and refugees coming to the US from Central America have been driven in a large way by climate change rendering their lives at home impossible.
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Apr 6, 2022 17:52
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How are u posted:We do. The past years of immigration and refugees coming to the US from Central America have been driven in a large way by climate change rendering their lives at home impossible. I mean yes of course we do, but it’s nothing to what it will be. It’s just a another take on the meme, things aren’t bad yet. Both things are true.
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Apr 6, 2022 17:53
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ephex posted:A more lighthearted take on things: This video beat me down more than the bad climate reports, and made me glad I haven't had kids, and horrified/shameful at my/our lack of action's consequences for the other kids in my friend group and family. I don't get why people find it comforting at all.
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Apr 6, 2022 17:54
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TwoQuestions posted:This video beat me down more than the bad climate reports, and made me glad I haven't had kids, and horrified/shameful at my/our lack of action's consequences for the other kids in my friend group and family. Because if allows them to say “see, we’ll figure it out” while continuing to do nothing. The flip side is it is far, far too late to save our current system the way it is. We cared about decorum and winning things in the market place of ideas instead of actual actions that would be effective. Now, it doesn’t matter, because all the obvious solutions that you can’t mention in this thread without getting probed wouldnt even do anything to turn things around.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:11
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TwoQuestions posted:This video beat me down more than the bad climate reports, and made me glad I haven't had kids, and horrified/shameful at my/our lack of action's consequences for the other kids in my friend group and family. If you're feeling bad about lack of action I would encourage you to get involved with your state / local enviro movement and organizations and find ways to help. There's all sorts of work being done everywhere, and good people are needed. Don't get caught up in the Hopelessness Trap.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:18
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