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Oh wonderful, that's just what this manga needs, Hamon explosions.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:32
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CuwiKhons posted:There's a very real narrative dissonance if you think about it too hard, but you're not supposed to think about it that hard unless the author suddenly wants you to. This is honestly kind of a running thing throughout the manga and one of its biggest issues to me. It presents this flawed society but doesn't want you thinking about it unless it's directly related to the plot.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:38
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honestly I feel like bakugo is generally one of the losers/characters most negatively affected by the shift away from the focus on hero school. "How do you reconcile yourself to working with your awful childhood bully?" and "can you be a hero if you lack basic compassion and respect for others?" are (mildly) interesting questions in the hero academy context, but lose a lot of their weight when the story's main thrust is about fighting a megalomaniacal superpower absorbing monster. It doesn't help that his whole deal is basically completely orthogonal to the villains' issues, especially since the question of whether he'd ever work with them is pretty quickly and easily dispensed with, and somehow the issue of whether the exploding guy has a quirk that can actually safely exist in society doesn't ever really come up, as far as I can recall. You'd think there'd be some thematic parallels to explore between Bakugo's desire to blow things up and Toga's desire for blood, and how society handles these two different destructive urges completely differently because one is readily turned to enforcing the law, but ehhhh.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:54
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God remember when that happened and everyone was mortified for like two months at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke
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Apr 6, 2022 03:56
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Valentin posted:honestly I feel like bakugo is generally one of the losers/characters most negatively affected by the shift away from the focus on hero school. "How do you reconcile yourself to working with your awful childhood bully?" and "can you be a hero if you lack basic compassion and respect for others?" are (mildly) interesting questions in the hero academy context, but lose a lot of their weight when the story's main thrust is about fighting a megalomaniacal superpower absorbing monster. All this thematic weirdness and yet he's still one of the two characters with actual meaningfully explored arcs, the other being Endeavor of all people
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Apr 6, 2022 03:58
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Arist posted:All this thematic weirdness and yet he's still one of the two characters with actual meaningfully explored arcs, the other being Endeavor of all people But not for lack of trying on Toga's part, huh? Just consistently threatening to have an arc, that girl.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:00
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Waffleman_ posted:God remember when that happened and everyone was mortified for like two months at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke say what you will about Naruto and Sasuke, but that relationship at least has a pretty sensible thematic resonance for the overall series (Naruto's refusal to turn on his teammate despite the weight of both their personal history and broader cycles of violence in the ninja world is basically the crux of the whole thing). meanwhile bakugo says sorry in an arc basically written for "bakugo says sorry" and things move on almost immediately because the conflict between him and deku ceased to be thematically relevant for anyone but bakugo a couple hundred chapters ago. like drat bakugo isn't even deku's real "important rival who has to be redeemed", that's shigaraki. rough.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:06
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The lack of any real pushback from Deku in regards to Bakugo after like, chapter 11 was always incredibly strange. It didn't just make Deku feel like a doormat, it made him seem like a total void of personality, a black hole from which no semi-interesting conflict could possibly escape.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:09
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Valentin posted:say what you will about Naruto and Sasuke, but that relationship at least has a pretty sensible thematic resonance for the overall series (Naruto's refusal to turn on his teammate despite the weight of both their personal history and broader cycles of violence in the ninja world is basically the crux of the whole thing). meanwhile bakugo says sorry in an arc basically written for "bakugo says sorry" and things move on almost immediately because the conflict between him and deku ceased to be thematically relevant for anyone but bakugo a couple hundred chapters ago. I mean, hell, for a hot minute there, Todoroki even took his spot as secondary male lead.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:10
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I mean, that hot (and cold) minute is still going, and has been pretty much since...Endeavor versus the Nomu? Bakugo doesn't actually have any kind of plot going aside from learning to be less of a dick, Todoroki has a whole cast of supporting characters and a conflict that's clearly going to have an important role in the climax. And yeah, Bakugo's ability to be a functioning character is pretty much completely undermined by Deku never engaging with him. Half the cast never shuts up about Sasuke and people repeatedly make decisions that affect the ongoing plot because of his singular emotional importance to them, and the emotional believability of his relationship with Naruto is helped considerably by the fact that they kick each other's asses up and down the valley of the end before the time skip. Meanwhile, Deku (and all the other kids, to boot) no-sells everything Bakugo does, so none of their conflict has any stakes, and no one except bakugo himself is actually interested in it. Compare the hideout raid arc to the rescue Sasuke arc: in Naruto, the younger generation strikes out on their own, nearly get themselves killed, and ultimately fail to save Sasuke. The MHA kids have their rescue immediately undermined by first the pro heroes and then by All Might/OFA, and the emotional focus shifts almost immediately from anything to do with Bakugo to all the end of the symbol of peace stuff. Plus, the villains are crushed and completely buried as a threat, necessitating several arcs to rebuild their credibility. ...I think MHA is retroactively making me like Naruto more?
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Apr 6, 2022 04:26
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Arist posted:The lack of any real pushback from Deku in regards to Bakugo after like, chapter 11 was always incredibly strange. It didn't just make Deku feel like a doormat, it made him seem like a total void of personality, a black hole from which no semi-interesting conflict could possibly escape. I mean, it fits though. Izuku never had it in him to hate Bakugo that way, because that's not who Deku is. It's in fact implied to be why Izuku is such a potent force for heroism. He doesn't hate people, not really, he pities them or feels bad for them or tries to understand them. He's "good" in a way that few people are, for good reason because his form of goodness is incredibly selfless to the point where he has to learn not to value the lives of others over himself, repeatedly. When he does finally push back and explode at Bakugo (vs All Might, their solo fight) it's also all the more meaningful because he normally doesn't do that.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:31
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, it fits though. Izuku never had it in him to hate Bakugo that way, because that's not who Deku is. Cool. It's extremely not-interesting.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:32
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Arist posted:Cool. It's extremely not-interesting. I disagree, I find it interesting.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:36
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Like, if you want to tell a story about someone who's just The Goodest Boy In The World, you still have to meaningfully challenge their perspective so that there's actual drama in whether or not they'll be able to stick to their ideals or whatever. Deku is an extremely boring protagonist because he basically never comes into real conflict with any of the other characters. And it's not just that Deku doesn't care, it's that nobody seems to care, and even when he does react it's way too late and with no prior buildup that any of it ever really bothered him.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:38
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Arist posted:Like, if you want to tell a story about someone who's just The Goodest Boy In The World, you still have to meaningfully challenge their perspective so that there's actual drama in whether or not they'll be able to stick to their ideals or whatever. It's not just that Deku doesn't care, it's that nobody seems to care, and even when he does react it's way too late and with no prior buildup that any of it ever really bothered him. That would be the deal with Shigaraki and All For One and Izuku struggling between his desire to literally save everyone (including Shigaraki) and what society wants him to do. I think the story has done plenty to challenge Izuku's perspective and feelings. Overhaul challenged it, Shigaraki challenges it, Endeavour challenges it, even All Might and All for One challenge it.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, it fits though. Izuku never had it in him to hate Bakugo that way, because that's not who Deku is. Ya, thats part of what pissed Bakugou off so much. He bullies Deku and then when he slips and falls Deku is the only one to rush to him and ask if he's OK.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:49
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Kild posted:Ya, thats part of what pissed Bakugou off so much. He bullies Deku and then when he slips and falls Deku is the only one to rush to him and ask if he's OK. Actually Deku asking him if he's okay there is why he started bullying him (if you're talking about the falling off the log into the water thing), because to Bakugo's broken world perspective Izuku is implying that he can help Bakugo even though Bakugo is "so much stronger" than Izuku. Bakugo literally hates Izuku for something he made up in his head due to his damaged sense of self-worth from the way society treats his quirk. The real one is that Izuku would rush to save Bakugo from the Sludge Monster even though Bakugo earlier that day told him to kill himself.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:50
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Bakugo's friend got nomu-ed so there's that.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:57
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Lord_Magmar posted:Actually Deku asking him if he's okay there is why he started bullying him (if you're talking about the falling off the log into the water thing), because to Bakugo's broken world perspective Izuku is implying that he can help Bakugo even though Bakugo is "so much stronger" than Izuku. Nah even before that he was being bullied. He had the nickname Deku at that point. This just ramped it up much worse.  
Kild fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 05:04
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bobjr posted:Bakugo's friend got nomu-ed so there's that. I think it's super weird they never actually did anything with that in the manga, or the fact that AfO's evil scientist minion was also Deku's childhood doctor.
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Apr 6, 2022 05:10
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Rhonne posted:I think it's super weird they never actually did anything with that in the manga, or the fact that AfO's evil scientist minion was also Deku's childhood doctor. I think they deconfirmed that, actually
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Apr 6, 2022 05:19
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Speaking of, it's still extremely funny that Horikoshi initially named him after some hosed up war crimes and immediately went "ah poo poo ah gently caress" and changed it
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Apr 6, 2022 05:44
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Waffleman_ posted:God remember when that happened and everyone was mortified for like two months at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke Honestly I was more mortified by the people who were deluded enough to think Bakugo would become Sasuke than I was at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke.
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Apr 6, 2022 07:14
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The Deku bullying issue is like if Hajime no Ippo was written worse. Ippo also got bullied a lot. He tried to ignore it, found boxing, became a big deal, and his continued success eventually broke the brains of his old bullies and they begged his forgiveness. At that point Ippo had kinda forgotten the whole thing, if I remember correctly. I may not be, it's been infinity years. Could have had something similar in this series, but Bakugo maintains a pretty consistent tone from point A to point F. Bakugo was mad, is mad, will be mad, but he's found a moment to apologize in between all that. I like Bakugo, but given that we're now at the supppsed end of the series I'm revisiting all the little bits up to this point and re-evaluating them. The Bakugo problem did not have the build up/pay off it probably could have.
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Apr 6, 2022 07:21
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Honestly I was more mortified by the people who were deluded enough to think Bakugo would become Sasuke than I was at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke.  But leave it to fans to  over every possible way a manga could suck even if it makes no sense.But what if Deku calls Shiggy a slur in the next chapter? Hell, the thread was named "no one is Sasuke" for a good while.
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Apr 6, 2022 08:18
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Shinjobi posted:The Deku bullying issue is like if Hajime no Ippo was written worse. Bakugo's mad, and he'll always be mad, but he's advanced pretty steadily as a person, going from treating everyone else like lovely extras to trusting others to have his back when he gets into trouble (which also requires admitting he can get into trouble he can't solve himself). The Ippo route, as you describe it, is less about the bullies being characters and more about a revenge fantasy. "Some day I'll be so great they'll beg for me to forgive them!" Doesn't sound terrible, and as a background element it works alright, but it's not good for a character who gets focus. It sounds less like something that MHA did wrong, and more the same thing you get in MHA fanfics, where people project their own issues with bullying onto Deku, then complain that the manga didn't give them satisfying revenge by proxy.
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Apr 6, 2022 12:05
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Waffleman_ posted:If anything, it's suffering from the Dark Knight Rises/MCU problem where you have your villain be fighting back against flaws in society as a gesture towards shades of gray but because they're the villain, they still need to set up a nuke in a football field and massacre innocents. TDKR is a very bizarre hodge-podge of outlandish motivations and nonsensical leaps in logic.
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Apr 6, 2022 12:22
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People seem to like the "gooder than good boy" protagonists of kimetsu no Yaiba is any indication, so if you don't you're out of sync with the audience that's buying this stuff. Ippo handled the bullying pretty well I think because Ippo changes and lives his best life in spite of it, and his bullies grow up. I mean authority figures stopping the bullying is the more "correct" thing that should happen but in the end it's more realistic. Ippo is too good of a kid to snap and thankfully finds a good outlet, and his bullies literally grow up. They start to become adults and correctly realize how dumb their high school poo poo was, and everyone moves on. Umezawa becomes genuine friends with Ippo and is torn up occasionally about how he used to be. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 14:28
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chiasaur11 posted:Bakugo's mad, and he'll always be mad, but he's advanced pretty steadily as a person, going from treating everyone else like lovely extras to trusting others to have his back when he gets into trouble (which also requires admitting he can get into trouble he can't solve himself). That's fair. And for what it's worth, I feel like how Bakugo interacts with everyone except Deku works pretty well. I just don't think the Deku and Bakugo dynamic was nailed quite right. Though we've already been told the story went a little too hard on Bakugo's treatment of Deku at the beginning of the series, so that probably has something to do with it.
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Apr 6, 2022 14:31
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One big difference between the "overly good" heroes right now is that if someone tried to bully tanjiro from kimetsu no yaiba, tanjiro would probably headbutt them. He's not a character that doesn't stand up for himself. meanwhile deku will accept any amount of abuse and then be like "thank you sir. you're my best friend. I love you."
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Apr 6, 2022 16:21
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Casey Finnigan posted:One big difference between the "overly good" heroes right now is that if someone tried to bully tanjiro from kimetsu no yaiba, tanjiro would probably headbutt them. He's not a character that doesn't stand up for himself. Well no, he accepted an absurd amount of bullshit from Bakugo, specifically, due to their previous friendship (that was fairly healthy). Also Tanjiro is still more likely to headbutt you for bullying other people (especially his sister) than himself I think.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:26
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When was their friendship healthy? When they were 2 years old?
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Apr 6, 2022 16:31
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Yeah, the only time their relationship was healthy was before Bakugo’s quirk came in and it’s just a loooong gap of Bakugo being lovely until Izuku vs Bakugo Round 2
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Apr 6, 2022 17:24
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Staltran posted:I don't see how. Is it any different than IRL law enforcement agencies assassinating people? (also the Hero Public Safety Commission isn't secret at all, idk where you got that from) The way it's portrayed is different in the sense that, IIRC, the assassinations in the manga are portrayed as "morally grey" (where the moral dilemma is more about the secrecy and the use of killing) vs the assassinations in reality where law enforcement literally just murders left-wing activists. A fundamental issue any major/popular series like this will run into is that you can't really do "meaningful societal commentary" in that context. So a series either has to either have uncontroversial moral statements, limit itself to interpersonal drama, or do a bunch of lame and poorly-thought-out social commentary (since a popular series would need to avoid anything with clear real-world analogues that there isn't a popular consensus about).
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Apr 6, 2022 20:59
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As much as I liked the MVA arc, the more I think about it, the more this manga would've been better if there'd hardly been any meaningful villains at all and just a *lot* more focus on the main cast. If you're going to have that many characters, you might as well turn it into a soap opera, and instead it's been a series that acts like it has a main cast of five and not fifteen.
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Apr 6, 2022 23:46
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Tbh I'd rather a series have a clear main cast than pretend the c-listers are actually a-listers. Its okay to have side characters!
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Apr 7, 2022 00:23
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I used to think all Shonen needed a villain and then Shokugeki no Soma taught me that I was wrong
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Apr 7, 2022 19:15
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TheKingofSprings posted:I used to think all Shonen needed a villain and then Shokugeki no Soma taught me that I was wrong Which one taught you that, Food Hitler or the DARK CHEFS?
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Apr 7, 2022 19:18
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Electric Phantasm posted:Which one taught you that, Food Hitler or the DARK CHEFS? incestuous half brother for sure
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Apr 7, 2022 20:10
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I still like that in My Hero Academia we didn't actually finish a full school year.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:21
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