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Herstory Begins Now posted:Minorities? Yeah, I almost pointed out how paid-leave-less workers who were economically compelled to deliver groceries & meals to work-at-home PMC (or who pick food in the fields, or who live in prison) were victimized as well. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of this country's deaths happened among these two groups, don't you agree?
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:25 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 04:39 |
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Gumball Gumption posted:If you trust any states numbers I think Colorado has been pretty decent. Why do we need to distrust all data suddenly?
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:31 |
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NC's numbers were always relatively accurate, based on HCAs internal metrics.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:32 |
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Willa Rogers posted:Yeah, I almost pointed out how paid-leave-less workers who were economically compelled to deliver groceries & meals to work-at-home PMC (or who pick food in the fields, or who live in prison) were victimized as well. In the future you should probably actually point that out instead of 'almost pointed it out'
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:34 |
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I think Colorado has been pretty decent. Why do we need to distrust all data suddenly? The argument as I understand it is that to truly capture the full breadth of deaths from coronavirus requires an effort from state organizations that goes above and beyond simply reporting deaths in the hospital system, and state officials have zero incentive to make that effort since a greater death toll will merely make their tenure look worse. Honestly it's a pretty persuasive argument to me
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:39 |
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Dumb question, but does the gov. do any "soft" population counting outside of census years. Covid numbers will/should reveal themseleves when some trends start in 2020 for some reason.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:39 |
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Herstory Begins Now posted:In the future you should probably actually point that out instead of 'almost pointed it out' Thanks for the tip! I'm always happy to clarify (repeatedly, if necessary) what I meant if there's any doubt to it. Is there anything else about what I've written, in your opinion, that needs further clarification?
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 00:39 |
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Rather than going back-and-forth about our feelings and whether the data is trustworthy, I think it's probably better to search for better info and sources about FL's nursing home response. On the pro-DeSantis side of things, we have a softball interview from the editor-in-chief of the National Review, in which he praises DeSantis for his "flexible" COVID response and talks about how DeSantis will soon be lifting what few restrictions were put in place. And most importantly, that article was published on May 20, 2020, or around the bright green line I drew on this chart. A little early to be declaring COVID success or cheering the wise intervention of Governor DeSantis! But was it really so bright as that? Let's take a look at what the Jacksonville Times thought of DeSantis' nursing home victories five days later: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/05/25/state-missteps-failed-frail-in-floridarsquos-nursing-homes/41751079/ quote:As coronavirus deaths increased exponentially in elder care centers, Gov. Ron DeSantis took a victory lap. Well, I'm not completely sure about some of those criticisms. After all, it doesn't really criticize DeSantis's quarantining measures themselves, just attacks the timing. But wait, I have here another article that finds issues with the quarantine/isolation policies! It seems that although the measures were strict on paper, in reality the state was shoveling money to designated COVID nursing homes without actually caring much whether they were any good at actually containing COVID, and the approach didn't scale well when COVID cases really spiked in the summer. https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/2020/09/18/florida-picked-nursing-homes-spotty-records-covid-isolation-centers/5814498002/ quote:In the days before COVID-19 pounded Florida with the power of Thor’s hammer, Gov. Ron DeSantis repeatedly bashed New York for sending elderly coronavirus patients from hospitals back to nursing homes. Let's jump forward a year or so in time and see how Florida's nursing home policies worked out in the long-term. Let's check in on things in August-September 2021 - well after vaccines became available. https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/09/15/florida-leads-nation-in-nursing-home-resident-and-staff-covid-19-deaths/ quote:More nursing home residents and staff died of COVID-19 in Florida during a four-week period ending Aug. 22 than in any other state in the country, according to an AARP analysis released today. Huh. Kinda seems like maybe DeSantis didn't do all that great in the long run. In particular, because DeSantis eagerly pushed to start lifting restrictions and opening everything up as early as fall 2020, as soon as the first wave passed, Florida was hit extremely hard by Delta. And by mid-2021, Florida's nursing homes had the highest COVID death rate in the country, as the new and even-more-deadly variant swept through poorly-vaccinated nursing homes. And of course, no lessons were learned, leading to case rates going even higher when Omicron hit. And as the final blow against DeSantis's brilliant nursing home policies, he just signed the "No Patient Left Alone Act", a new law he'd championed which not only bans healthcare facilities and nursing homes from preventing in-person visitation if the patient is lonely or unhappy, but also prevents them from denying entry to unvaccinated people.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 01:19 |
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Great research, MP! Here's the federal data on FL vs. NY for most of the time your linked pieces covered: I think NY is a good comparison state for nursing-home deaths bc of what we know from the investigations into Cuomo. (Gonna check out a few more states, including AZ & TX, bc I'm curious.)
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 01:33 |
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PhazonLink posted:Dumb question, but does the gov. do any "soft" population counting outside of census years. Short answer yes, which is why we have population estimates for non-0-ending years. It's based on representative samples, vs the census' theoretical "we'll count basically everyone", but year on year census estimates aren't the worst.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 01:37 |
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I wonder how Murphy managed to do such a good job in Jan. 2021 compared to Cuomo, especially given their comparable death rates early on, and their geo proximity. Texas was incredibly bad, and Arizona surprisingly good: eta CA & PA: Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 01:42 |
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Short answer yes, which is why we have population estimates for non-0-ending years. It's based on representative samples, vs the census' theoretical "we'll count basically everyone", but year on year census estimates aren't the worst.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 01:52 |
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Main Paineframe posted:And as the final blow against DeSantis's brilliant nursing home policies, he just signed the "No Patient Left Alone Act", a new law he'd championed which not only bans healthcare facilities and nursing homes from preventing in-person visitation if the patient is lonely or unhappy, but also prevents them from denying entry to unvaccinated people. Actually, the suspension of in-person visits, as well as in-person inspections, led to cases of elder abuse and neglect. The emotional & non-covid physical effects on seniors & the developmentally disabled in residential care was widespread & well-documented. Alzheimers & dementia patients were particularly affected, e.g. The FL bill allows people who are hospitalized under certain conditions, or living in institutionalized settings, to have one designated caregiver who's allowed to visit a resident, client or patient. It passed the FL Senate 37-0, and the FL House by 115-2. Most other states have passed similar laws, including CT, MN & WA. Disability-rights & elder-care advocates have pushed for these bills, including AARP, the state chapters of which have propelled this legislation across the country. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:15 |
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Willa Rogers posted:Actually, the suspension of in-person visits, as well as in-person inspections, led to cases of elder abuse and neglect. The emotional & non-covid physical effects on seniors & the developmentally disabled in residential care was widespread & well-documented. Alzheimers & dementia patients were particularly affected, e.g. Do they require vaccinations? Cause if not I don't see how that's a good thing to allow unvaccinated visitors to see immunocompromised grandma.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:24 |
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Do they require vaccinations? Cause if not I don't see how that's a good thing to allow unvaccinated visitors to see immunocompromised grandma. I don't know if the laws in MA require vaccines but the care facilities do testing and require masks. MA has been allowing care giver visits for a while now. Also it's a bit un-serious to think of it as visiting grandma, they're caregiver visits. My aunt is the caregiver for her husband with Alzheimer's and her visits are to take care of him. It would honestly be bizarrely cruel to actually block terminal hospice patients from getting visits from loved ones because they might die. I don't think you think that, my point though is that the lack of policies like this impacts more than visits to grandma.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:31 |
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^^^ Yep! And it's one designated caregiver, not Mormon-numbers families.Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Do they require vaccinations? Cause if not I don't see how that's a good thing to allow unvaccinated visitors to see immunocompromised grandma. I don't know, but I was wondering that, too; let me know if you can find the data on some sort of legislative aggregator. But I'm baffled as to why, in Florida, 16 Dem senators, and no less than 40 Dem reps, want to kill grandma as much as the GOP legislators do.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:32 |
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Yeah I do agree allowing visitation is important, but these facilities also have a responsibility to protect their residents. I can't find any easily accessible info about vaccination status requirements.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:40 |
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah I do agree allowing visitation is important, but these facilities also have a responsibility to protect their residents. They're not getting cured of their terminal disease. I'm not really sure what you're counter arguing here. It's not like they're swinging the gates open? At least from experience here in MA they test and expect you to mask. This was going on before the vax. And there are lockdowns if the facility does have a case, patient or employee. Vax requirements are good, if they're not there it's a shame but not really enough to not want a change like this. Care facilities and especially hospitals have their own interests in keeping care givers from bringing in covid. I think this is the rare case of decent legislature passing. Even the worst Governors occasionally get a functional good bill dropped on the desk.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 02:51 |
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Feels a week late to be having a discussion about how well desantis handled the pandemic based off of a breitbart article from may 2020
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:07 |
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Feels a week late to be having a discussion about how well desantis handled the pandemic based off of a breitbart article from may 2020 Can you please quote the particular post that you're taking to task? Thanks! If you mean the National Review interview with DeSantis we've already discussed why that was relevant to the conversation at that point in time. Let me know if you need me to clear up or clarify anything I've said, as I've said.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:14 |
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Willa Rogers posted:Can you please quote the particular post that you're taking to task? Thanks! The level you are willing to go to defend DeSantis is really getting bizarre.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:19 |
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CommieGIR posted:The level you are willing to go to defend DeSantis is really getting bizarre. I think I've been pretty consistent in backing up my argument with the CDC data, rather than arguing things that no one has said. Recall that this convo started with a news story of how well DeSantis is doing in fundraising (a story I didn't post) and puzzlement at the reasons that might be. Then the thread then became a hive of discord over whether DeSantis killed olds as efficiently as other governors did throughout the pandemic. (As it turns out, he killed fewer than some and more than others.) The big surprise to me was that Arizona did so much better with nursing-home deaths than Florida when I don't recall any coverage of it. (Not that I've searched this out.) Maybe I should bizarrely focus on that instead of Florida, bc I was pretty shocked at the low rates of nursing-home deaths when I looked up the actual data. Why do you think Arizona did well with that? What did Murphy do in January 2021 that Cuomo didn't? n.b.: I'm not in love with or bizarrely defending Ducey either, and know nothing about his state's data or reporting; just going by that CDC data, which took me by surprise. eta: I can swear on your holy book of choice that I do not support his reelection or any future elections he may enter. He's a horrible guy who has horrible policies for the most part, and his protection of the olds does not outweigh the harm he's done & continues to do. Does that help clarify my stance on DeSantis? Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:35 |
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Willa Rogers posted:I think I've been pretty consistent in backing up my argument with the CDC data, rather than arguing things that no one has said. Yes, its this weird focus on a man who tried to cover up his COVID stats, and is largely one of the runners up to Trump level Bigotry shooting for the White House that has me sincerely confused. While I fully agree Dem states also did a loving awful job with COVID and Elderly COVID issues, the sheer depths you are going to in order to justify DeSantis is just....really not what I expected of Willa.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:41 |
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I would've been glad to walk away from the convo but people were challenging my statements (and creating new ones) so I felt compelled to back myself up according to forum rules. Let me know if I need to provide more data to meet your high expectations of me. (And please share your opinions on the related topics I've brought up, if you're so inclined.) Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:44 |
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More confused than anything, that's all. I just, personally, don't think it matters if DeSantis did better. I also have every reason to be skeptical of any data painting his COVID numbers in a positive light.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:46 |
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CommieGIR posted:More confused than anything, that's all. I just, personally, don't think it matters if DeSantis did better. I also have every reason to be skeptical of any data painting his COVID numbers in a positive light. If it's because I pointed out that the tweet MP quoted about the legislation was misleading, I backed that up with stats from the party votes & its being patterned after a bill that advocates support & has passed in most other states. Let me know if you're confused about anything else I've said (as opposed to what people think I've said). I've tried my best to be clear with supporting arguments & specific examples.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 03:50 |
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Could we a weird/terrible/entertaining week for world politics. https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1512450834851848192 https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1512032009312509957 The left, center left, and center right in France has completely collapsed. It's basically just Macron's weird centrist/socially liberal/pro-Europe brand of politics and diet Fascism. Socialist party polling at 1%. The farther left party polling at 14%. The center right party polling at 12%. The far right and the OTHER far right parties are polling at a combined 56% in the first round of voting. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 04:17 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Could we a weird/terrible/entertaining week for world politics. kind of a galaxy-brained move on macron's part to announce the raising of the retirement age a month before the election, huh?
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 04:37 |
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A big flaming stink posted:kind of a galaxy-brained move on macron's part to announce the raising of the retirement age a month before the election, huh? It was very dumb politically, but at least in a weird way it is better to be upfront about the choices in an election instead of just pulling it out right after the election or lying on the campaign trail. Le Pen is mostly gaining from the collapse of the center right and the other far right parties. Macron is still the most popular candidate and it is kind of baffling that all of the following are happening at once: - Macron is still somehow the most popular candidate. - The Socialist and Leftwing parties can't seem to do anything to generate momentum. The Socialist candidate is polling at literally 1% and all the left wing parties combined are polling at less than Le Pen. - The center right has also completely collapsed. - Le Pen is most popular with younger voters and loses older voters by double digits. - This is all happening in France.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 04:45 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Could we a weird/terrible/entertaining week for world politics. The left suddenly going numb-balled and collapsing in a heap of its own piss as everyone runs to the center like a bunch of screaming cowards right before a national election? Surely you jest, that's NEVER happened before anywhere on the planet.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 05:22 |
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https://twitter.com/yashalevine/status/1512656775912198144?t=R0JGvQP3Bt02x84fsH8J7w&s=19 Honestly this is some absolutely sick poo poo. Whatever your feelings about how Ukrainian refugees are treated vs other refugees, no child deserves to go through what the child in this article has gone through. Relevant excerpts quote:Yelyzaveta is far from the first child to be separated from a loved one at the border by officials. If the adult crossing with a child can’t prove that they are the legal guardian, they are often split apart from the minor. Like if our immigration system is so intent on dehumanizing refugees that we can't even make special dispensation for the group we are have proclaimed our support for, not even for a propaganda win, then I'm once again at a loss for what can be done to change it short of demolition. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 9, 2022 |
# ? Apr 9, 2022 08:32 |
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nine-gear crow posted:The left suddenly going numb-balled and collapsing in a heap of its own piss as everyone runs to the center like a bunch of screaming cowards right before a national election? Surely you jest, that's NEVER happened before anywhere on the planet. Our own leftist parties and activist institutions managed to pull a message fumbling hat trick for the Ukraine crisis and would be taking a similar plunge if they'd ever grown to a position of non fringe relevance. Fortunately you can't fall off the floor
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 09:22 |
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We officially have more discussion in the US CE thread about french elections than the fact that you are now no longer allowed to exist as trans in Alabama until you are 19. Im gonna go scream now.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 12:06 |
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Sedisp posted:We officially have more discussion in the US CE thread about french elections than the fact that you are now no longer allowed to exist as trans in Alabama until you are 19. Be the change you want to see in the thread!
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 12:57 |
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Lib and let die posted:Be the change you want to see in the thread! Im not going to speak into a void of mostly cis people that just don't seem to care. Get enough of that offline thank you.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:00 |
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Why aren't all the people who were run off posting in the thread anymore?
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:13 |
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Why aren't all the people who were run off posting in the thread anymore? I don't really care about the thread lore. I just know a lot of kids and some adults are going to be yanked off the medications they were given so their suicide attempt rates aren't knocking on a coinflip
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:16 |
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Yeah it's monstrous.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:17 |
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Sedisp posted:Im not going to speak into a void of mostly cis people that just don't seem to care. Get enough of that offline thank you. I brought up the Texas attacks on trans kids a while back. It's definitely worth bringing up. FWIW it's not something I have heard about, and I'm trans, although I have been away from news for a couple weeks. I don't think there was much discussion about Texas because there wasn't anything to argue about. IIRC the response was unanimous disgust. Certainly nobody supports it.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:18 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 04:39 |
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I mean at least one mod has made this thread pretty unwelcoming to at least one openly trans poster so it's not surprising there's a lack of trans voices. As for me I generally don't have a perspective to add other than "holy poo poo this latest bit of trans panic is gross and poo poo and a complete and utter trampling of basic human rights and extending common decency towards one another" which is generally the broad level of comfort I consider myself "able" to speak to as a cis person.
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# ? Apr 9, 2022 13:21 |