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Bottom Liner posted:Source? https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/10/democrats-youth-vote-2022-midterms-john-della-volpe-00024264 The story also references the polling Leon mentioned a couple weeks ago about the youth vote dropping off for VA gubernatorial election: quote:‘Young people want to see action’
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 18:49 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 19:13 |
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Willa Rogers posted:https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/10/democrats-youth-vote-2022-midterms-john-della-volpe-00024264 I'd argue you can't draw any type of conclusion based on that when the youth vote in NJ went up when compared with the last Gubernatorial election: https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/update-youth-voter-turnout-2021-new-jersey-and-virginia-elections
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 20:12 |
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Willa Rogers posted:It'll be interesting to see how extensively Obama campaigns on behalf of candidates this year, especially since Biden's been labeled as campaign poison by moderate Dems (speaking off the record, of course). Obama only gets involved if there's a danger of good things happening, so it's unlikely he'll show up this year.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 20:16 |
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https://twitter.com/joshuapotash/status/1513196341635211268?s=21&t=PD4EGU6fFYx-o1WhLqt6Ow No redeeming this. If not abolition, what’s the fix? The cops know they’re above us. Unless you tear that culture out root and branch, this is what we get. Defund, destroy, decarcerate.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:05 |
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https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1513093448013856775?s=20&t=1w04AjW63hWyeu0rujpMug If they aren't going to make a referral, then what's the point? Just drum up a bunch of negatives for Trump if/when he runs again? Just use it for political points?
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:08 |
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Kalit posted:I'd argue you can't draw any type of conclusion based on that when the youth vote in NJ went up when compared with the last Gubernatorial election: Could be! Might be that the youth vote is so strong this November that all the doomsayers about the midterms will be proven wrong & the Dems will have a filibuster-proof majority in Congress, or at least not have to rely on archvillains Sinema & Manchin and can start passing great legislation! Something interesting I've mentioned before is that I don't recall another Dem president in my lifetime prior to now for whom approvals were highest among the older voters & lowest among the younger voters. Do you, or anyone else, know if that is indeed the case?
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:13 |
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Willa Rogers posted:Could be! Might be that the youth vote is so strong this November that all the doomsayers about the midterms will be proven wrong & the Dems will have a filibuster-proof majority in Congress, or at least not have to rely on archvillains Sinema & Manchin and can start passing great legislation! Of course the Democrats are going to get slaughtered for midterms. But you seem to be arguing unrelated things that don't have a strong correlation. Since when has approval ratings been a good indicator of voter turnout?
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:20 |
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Kalit posted:Of course the Democrats are going to get slaughtered for midterms. But you seem to be arguing unrelated things that don't have a strong correlation. Since when has approval ratings been a good indicator of voter turnout? I linked a story about a Dem strategist who's advising Democrats on obtaining & retaining the youth vote, which strategist has noted that it's slipping, after I was challenged for a source. I don't understand your point of contention with what I said; are you arguing against the statements by the strategist in politico story, or against my question as to whether there was another Dem president who had high approvals among the olds and lower approvals among the youngs. Because I said nothing about approvals being linked to actual voting (the Politico story, however, did link the two) and, indeed, I stressed that the youth vote could end up giving the Dems a supermajority after the midterm elections. Do you know of any other presidents for whom that's true about the age groups?
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:33 |
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I would think those would tend to correlate just obviously on the face of what they measure.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:41 |
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^^^ The strategist in the story thinks so too! Here's the Politico story in its entirety, so as to not further confuse what was said with what people think has been said, or who was doing the saying of it: quote:Democrats turn to their Gen Z whisperer as youth support wobbles Does this help quell your concerns about what I've posted, Kalit? Because the strategist himself believes there will be a correlation between Biden's low approvals among younger voters and the results of the coming elections.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 21:42 |
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Willa Rogers posted:I linked a story about a Dem strategist who's advising Democrats on obtaining & retaining the youth vote, which strategist has noted that it's slipping, after I was challenged for a source. Willa Rogers posted:^^^ The strategist in the story thinks so too! The only concrete point in that story that shows a lower youth turnout is the Virginia election. They didn't even talk about NJ, I'm assuming because then it would invalidate the point about VA. Everything else that's stated is just generic talking points that you could claim about youth enthusiasm at basically any point in the recent past after a new Democratic president has been elected. Or at least since Clinton. Maybe that's enough to convince you that the youth turnout will drop significantly, but can't say I'm convinced
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:01 |
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tldr version: Young people have been systematically neglected for so long that the shot-callers of a major political party need extremely simple political concepts, like "not taking votes for granted just because you got them once" and "people enjoy when you do things to help them", explained to them.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:06 |
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Kalit posted:Maybe that's enough to convince you that the youth turnout will drop significantly, but can't say I'm convinced But I wasn't the "convinced" one; the political strategist was! I was challenged on my statement that "the youth vote appears to be dropping off." When I was challenged on the statement, I linked to the Politico story in which the political strategist says that the youth vote appears to be dropping off. I'm baffled by your objections to my stating what a story said, then my posting the story in its entirety to show what the story said, and then your telling me that you're not convinced by what I'm pointing out that the story said, and then your adding qualifiers like "significantly" that I never posted. indeed!
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:10 |
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I thought this story was a subhead to the one on younger voters but it's a separate one:quote:A sour and angry America poised to punish Dems this fall The interesting thing to me are figures from the U of Mich Consumer Confidence Survey bc some Dems have used earlier numbers from this survey to argue that the economy wasn't as bad as voters & the media were making it out to be.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:16 |
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The youth vote is always a concern - but losing half a percentage point in youth turnout in the VA governor's race, without Trump in office as a motivator, seems... not that bad? It's something McAuliffe could've overcome without his terrible handling of the parent vote. I actually kind of question how hosed Dems are in the midterms. If I had to put money down right now, I would definitely bet against them, but there are a few things they have going for them: 1. Congressional generic ballot polling. Republicans have not been able to open up a large advantage here. When Biden's approval ratings slipped to 40% or so, Republicans gained a 2% edge in the generic ballot - but they haven't consistently done any better than that. Which means Democrats are still within striking distance. Which matters because... 2. Dems' disadvantage from gerrymandering is not as bad as it was 10 years ago. They were able to win a majority while just winning the popular vote by 3.1% in 2020, and redistricting appears to have helped them - they could probably win the House with a national popular vote win of 2%. This isn't completely implausible because... 3. Republicans are continuing to push their level of craziness. The stop the steal stuff gets the base riled up, but there are absolutely gettable voters for the GOP whom fringey candidates will drive away. There are also no GOP Senate candidates in key races like OH and PA that don't have huge question marks. Just because showing no interest in governing hasn't sunk them so far doesn't mean that it never will, if taken to an extreme. And Trump, out of office, may not give their candidates the boost he needs with his base if he's ineffective or uninterested. They are not being as quiet about their priorities as they could or should be. They are actively saying they will block further Supreme Court nominees, after Biden nominated a popular nominee, and the GOP-led court is likely to make its most controversial decision ever this summer. 4. Unemployment is low, so if inflation slows down and/or gas prices settle below $4, the economy is not a total loser for Dems. Nominal wage growth is strong, which isn't completely offsetting inflation, but they're a hell of a lot better off than if we had inflation without wage growth. There is also a possibility that Democrats will do something with a reconciliation bill this year, even if it's not as big as BBB. This is also something I would bet against, but they might be able to put something modest together with M&S. Biden also appears very unlikely to restart student loan payments before the midterms, which looked likely a few months ago. They would need a lot of breaks, but I don't think they're in as bad of a position as they were in 2010 - more comparable to where Republicans were in 2018, when they managed to gain a Senate seat. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Apr 10, 2022 |
# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:21 |
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The biggest thing that will likely impact the midterms is that the democratic messaging of "the economy is booming" isn't resonating with people. You can point to as many figures as you like, but since everyone's just hitting up the stores to see "oh, eggs are HOW much?" and "I just spent 85 dollars filling up the tank, what the hell," it's not going to matter to anybody that wages are up by 3% across the board, or whatever. Plus energy costs, medical costs, insurance costs, and basically every other random thing you can think of are spiking this year. Even trash collection subscriptions are way up. That, and the housing markets are completely on fire, so there are lot of people who feel like they're either permanently trapped where they are, or they won't ever get a home in the first place. You can't really point to the republicans being insane and bigoted as a response to that, because even though it's true, it's irrelevant to the problem being complained about. Biden has not done what he needed to do in order to avoid what most of us saw coming when he became "The Guy" -- he hasn't shifted the narrative to hope or change or even building back better, though to be fair it can be said that he did try, at least a little. He inherited a tire fire, and while he managed to put out a couple of the tires, the smell has only gotten worse, so people are going to vote the other way. Or perhaps, more likely, just not vote. The democrats haven't given their allies reason to back them except for monied interests, and so it's a safe bet that the critical mass of the "big tent" isn't gonna show up.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:40 |
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Mellow Seas posted:
We've been hearing "The GOP keeps being crazy and putting loons in the spotlight! It'll bite them in the rear end! See if it won't!" pretty much since Newt Gingrich stormed the stage to do jazz hands over Congress, and it has never, ever been true. poo poo, the GOP apparently gets punished in the polls when they run boring wafflers like Mitt Romney, not hissing gargoyles like Rick Scott, DeSantis, and Trump.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:41 |
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Sephyr posted:We've been hearing "The GOP keeps being crazy and putting loons in the spotlight! It'll bite them in the rear end! See if it won't!" pretty much since Newt Gingrich stormed the stage to do jazz hands over Congress, and it has never, ever been true.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:48 |
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Willa Rogers posted:^^^ The strategist in the story thinks so too! That seems like rather a significant misreading of the article. Rather, it's the reporter who sought to draw a connection between Biden's approval ratings - a connection that the strategist who specializes in youth voters specifically rejected as incorrect and irrelevant. quote:But if operatives are just focused on who’s in the Oval Office, or on Biden’s approval ratings, they’re “not looking at the right data,” Della Volpe said. He pointed to the third of young Americans who said they still planned to vote in 2022, according to his December Harvard Youth Poll. That’s equal to what participants told him in spring 2018, ahead of the midterm when Democrats flipped the House. Since then, they’ve formed a voting habit over two elections, another indication that youth turnout might be higher in 2022. That's a pretty far cry from your original claim that "the youth vote looks to be dropping off". In fact, of everyone quoted in the article, Della Volpe is by far the most optimistic about Dems' chances with young people. He points out that Dems can't simply take the youth vote for granted, sure, but he seems to think that the Dems will be fine if they just remember to keep communicating and reaching out to young people. In particular, although he highlights the importance of issues like climate change and student debt, he doesn't insist on the Dems prioritizing actual policy gains there - he simply tells them to keep "extending the conversation" to remind youth voters that Dems are "not finished": quote:It starts with communication, Della Volpe said, suggesting regular “check-ins” to update them on policy progress and citing Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (D-N.Y.) disciplined cadence of Instagram posts as one example of this in practice.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 22:58 |
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Great point about the writer (as well as others quoted in the piece) being more negative about the youth vote than the guy Biden hired to hone messaging that convinced young Bernie supporters that Biden would work on their concerns! We'll have to wait to see whether the strategists can continue to do their magic in convincing young voters that Biden cares about them & will make their lives better as well as they did with their crafted messaging in 2020.
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 23:33 |
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Here are some direct quotes from the story that led me to believe that suggesting that the youth vote appears to be dropping off wasn't a misreading of the article, including a quote from the strategist:quote:Biden’s yo-yoing numbers with young people “should concern everyone,” said John Walsh, Sen. Ed Markey’s chief of staff, who managed the Massachusetts Democrat’s successful primary campaign in 2020, which drew unusually high support among young voters for a 75-year-old senator. “Government is not acting with the urgency this moment demands and they’re frustrated, pissed off.” Six months is a long enough time to enthuse younger voters, and maybe November will not turn out to be a bloodbath!
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# ? Apr 10, 2022 23:49 |
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Main Paineframe posted:That seems like rather a significant misreading of the article. Rather, it's the reporter who sought to draw a connection between Biden's approval ratings - a connection that the strategist who specializes in youth voters specifically rejected as incorrect and irrelevant. taking strategists for the Biden campaign at their word has proven to be a singularly unhelpful lens by which to predict the future, over the past two and a half years
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 00:22 |
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Sephyr posted:We've been hearing "The GOP keeps being crazy and putting loons in the spotlight! It'll bite them in the rear end! See if it won't!" pretty much since Newt Gingrich stormed the stage to do jazz hands over Congress, and it has never, ever been true. Of course, Democrats have to deal with their own "eh, screw it"s. That's why you have the campaign. I just think "Democrats are totally screwed" is more cemented in as a narrative than it should be, according to polling, and 2018 showed that because of modern partisanship, even an ailing party can outperform its presidents' approval ratings. If we go into a recession or unemployment goes up significantly, then obviously it's curtains. But if inflation is slowing? If Roe is stuck down? If Covid deaths are low for the next six months? If Republicans gently caress up their messaging on Russia? No one of those things is particularly unlikely, and if Dems got a bingo it could be shockingly close. We'll know a lot more in August and September than we do now. Remember that Republicans are the party that loses half of elections to Democrats. They are perfectly capable of fumbling it at the one yard line. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:taking strategists for the Biden campaign at their word has proven to be a singularly unhelpful lens by which to predict the future, over the past two and a half years Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Apr 11, 2022 |
# ? Apr 11, 2022 00:23 |
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Willa Rogers posted:Great point about the writer (as well as others quoted in the piece) being more negative about the youth vote than the guy Biden hired to hone messaging that convinced young Bernie supporters that Biden would work on their concerns! That's an oddly pessimistic take on Della Volpe for someone who was citing him with such confidence (almost as if you were appealing to his authority) just a bit ago. Willa Rogers posted:I linked a story about a Dem strategist who's advising Democrats on obtaining & retaining the youth vote, which strategist has noted that it's slipping, after I was challenged for a source. Willa Rogers posted:^^^ The strategist in the story thinks so too! Willa Rogers posted:But I wasn't the "convinced" one; the political strategist was! That said, when your other sources are people who seem intent on comparing turnout in 2020 (a presidential election year) to turnout in 2021 or 2022 (an off-year and a midterm year), Della Volpe comes out looking like the best of the bunch even if you don't want to credit his specific area of expertise. It's only natural for Democratic strategists to be pessimistic about youth turnout, because youth turnout is always low, and especially so during midterms. Even in 2018, where 18-29 turnout rose by 16 percentage points, 30-44 and 45-59 turnout both rose by 13 points, and only the 60+ group didn't keep pace (but they also had the highest turnout to begin with, so they stayed in the leading position by a fair margin). Anyone who's making youth support a significant part of their campaign strategy can't ever forget them for even a moment. Besides, who else are you gonna ask for advice on youth turnout? The progressive strategists who were convinced that Sanders' progressive promises would activate youth voters well beyond normal levels and carry Bernie to the nomination on the shoulders of millennials? Clearly they don't have the full story on what'll get young people out to the polls.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 00:44 |
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It’s cool how whenever women post in this thread the reply guys are all over them. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 01:11 |
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Garland is a spineless hack. He wouldn't do poo poo if Trump turned himself in.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 01:17 |
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ellasmith posted:It’s cool how whenever women post in this thread the reply guys are all over them. Nah, I'm used to being nitpicked to death itt, even over stuff I never said. MP, you are correct & I apologize! I did overemphasize Della Volpe, rather than the six other Dems who expressed fears & doubts. I will certainly try to Do Better in the future when I cite stories, especially given the hyperattention paid of late as to what I say (and sometimes even what I don't say), and how I phrase it. I intend to live up to the rigorous standards of this thread & how they're applied.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 01:19 |
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Mellow Seas posted:
I did not question their competence. their ability to get democratic partisans who consider themselves savvy media consumers to repeat blatant, hateful lies is quite impressive, and was instrumental in their victory. appealing to their honesty in a matter of their self-interest, in the wake of "Joe Biden will close the concentration camps," "Joe Biden will pass Build Back Better," "Joe Biden will listen to the science on coronavirus," and the monstrous humiliation that was the Tara Reade saga, is an EXTREMELY uphill climb.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 01:50 |
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First round of voting in the French election is over. Macron did slightly better than polls showed; coming in first with 28%. As expected, Le Pen came in second with 24% The far right parties combined got 51% of the vote - slightly lower than polling suggested, but the first time in history they have gotten a majority of the vote. The Socialist, Communist, Green, and center-right candidates all immediately endorsed Macron after they lost, but all of them combined got less than 15% of the vote. The other far right parties all endorsed Le Pen. Most important issues to voters were: 1) Energy costs 2) Immigration 3) Inflation 4) Leaving/staying in the E.U. 5) Coronavirus restrictions
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 03:05 |
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lmao if le pen wins (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 03:18 |
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Sephyr posted:We've been hearing "The GOP keeps being crazy and putting loons in the spotlight! It'll bite them in the rear end! See if it won't!" pretty much since Newt Gingrich stormed the stage to do jazz hands over Congress, and it has never, ever been true. I know it's also been discussed that often voters don't believe some of their extremist positions and attacks on crazy candidates even backfire at times. Which you would think wouldn't happen, but apparently it's a thing for some people.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 03:39 |
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I think the only hope for Dems doing better than expected is if they're underestimating how many older voters have died due to the pandemic and how that will effect GOP turnout
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 12:56 |
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If we're talking ironic fates for the GOP. I think it's interesting that historically the mail in vote has been a GOP lean in many areas. It changed because of corona obviously but, making it harder to vote by mail could hurt. Old and rural people were more likely to take advantage of it previous to 2020. Which both skew GOP.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 13:26 |
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The interesting thing about the French elections is that they are continuing the trend over the last 6 or 7 years of strong anti-immigration sentiment in voters, that "the elites" or "mainstream" political groups haven't wanted to touch, becoming hugely influential and lifting up candidates/parties who had traditionally been irrelevant politically or jokes. Immigration is still the #2 issue in France, above Covid and inflation, and even the #4 issue, staying/leaving the E.U., is mostly about immigration. And immigration is Le Pen's entire political brand. Even countries with historically left-wing and socially liberal politics, like Denmark, Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, and the Netherlands have had huge surges in the far-right - including parties that have never gotten more than 5-10% of the vote before actually taking power - that are based entirely around immigration. Even in the U.S., as recently as 20 years ago there wasn't the widespread acceptance/mainstreaming of Trump-style immigration policy. It's also been a very effective way for far-right parties in highly secular countries to peel off working class left-wing and moderate voters who might otherwise be turned off by a religious culture war type candidate by reframing it as a nationalist culture war. France is unique in that all left of center parties (socialist, green, communist, etc) in the country have completely collapsed. But, a similar thing has been happening elsewhere where the left-wing parties are all weakening as traditional left-wing working class voters are moving towards the party that promises to do similar things to the left-wing party, but only for the "right" people and to bring back traditional culture. The other weird way France is unique is that political parties themselves seem to have largely collapsed. Of the top 3 vote-getters in the election yesterday, only Marine La Pen was part of an established political party (although, she was technically part of a brand new party - the National Rally party - that party is just the rebranded version of the National Front, which was itself a rebranded version of post-Vichy French Nazi party). The other top candidates were all "parties" built around one specific person.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 13:43 |
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I wonder what the French thought of the dunking of Corbyn
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 14:40 |
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Macron must have this election in the bag or he wouldn't be confident enough to gently caress over the only demographic that supports him: people old enough to remember the war
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 15:02 |
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Here's a really interesting story about the new CDC study examining depression and sadness in American youth. The highlights: - From 2009 to 2021, the share of American high-school students who say they feel “persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness” rose from 26 percent to 44 percent. - Women and white people experienced the largest changes. Women under 18 reported an over 200% increase in “persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness” - LGBT youth rates were already high, so they did not proportionally rise very much, but they remained the #1 demographic group for youth depression. - At the same time, LGBT acceptance, youth drug and alcohol use, and the amount of school fights (the three previous leading indicators of youth depression) have all dropped significantly. - But, eating disorders, overdoses, tobacco use, and suicide attempts all are up significantly (even though usage of drugs that can cause overdoses is down generally). - The four drivers are: 1) Social Media 2) Sociality is down 3) World is more stressful and youth have much higher access to news about stressors than before 4) Modern Parenting strategies - Big demographic changes: 1) Men are more than twice as likely to attempt suicide today. Previously women were more likely. 2) Men in general, and black men in particular, report the lowest levels of persistent sadness or depression (but, it is still higher than historical averages). 3) LGBT youth (not a change here) and white women report the highest levels of persistent sadness or depression. - One of the biggest differences demographically between youth from 2009 to 2021 and youth from prior generations (and part of the reason why black men have such low levels of reported persistent sadness or depression) is the level of church attendance. People who go to church regularly have much lower reported levels of depression and today's youth report far lower levels of church attendance. - It is also possible that it is not church attendance specifically, but because of the huge decrease in sociality generally, that frequent church attendance would be one of the few places with consistent sociality for youth and church attendance would be one form of that, but the church attendance itself isn't the cause of less depression. - It started before Covid. Covid amplified some of the problems, but it was not caused by Covid. - In conjunction with the lack of sociality (teens today are much less likely to go out with friends, get their drivers license, play youth sports, belong to a club, or go to church), teens today also get less sleep compared to people who were teens in the early 2000's (sleep deprivation is a strong source of depression and anxiety). - Teens today actually watch less TV than previous teens, but it is being replaced by social media. Social media is also replacing large chunks of "beneficial" activities that teens typically engaged in, like playing outside, socializing verbally, having hobbies, dating, or engaging with people directly in small groups. - The spike started in 2012, which was also the year that a majority of teens reported owning a smartphone, and has continued rising every year since. quote:Why American Teens Are So Sad https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/american-teens-sadness-depression-anxiety/629524/ Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 11, 2022 |
# ? Apr 11, 2022 15:10 |
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VitalSigns posted:Macron must have this election in the bag or he wouldn't be confident enough to gently caress over the only demographic that supports him: people old enough to remember the war
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 15:10 |
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Politico has a piece on dark-money PACs that are raising money on behalf of potential 2024 presidential candidates; some surprise inclusions (Murphy? Pompeo?):quote:At least a dozen potential candidates for president in 2024 have active nonprofit groups aligned with them, according to a review of corporate filings, campaign disclosures and financial records obtained by POLITICO. Some of them, like the nonprofits affiliated with Pompeo or Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), have never been publicly revealed before. Others, like those supporting President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump, have been operating in the open for years.
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# ? Apr 11, 2022 15:13 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 19:13 |
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The weird story about the two possibly spies who were bribing secret service agents gets even weirder. Someone tipped them off about the investigation triggered by the Post Office and they tried to hide and destroy evidence (seems like they did a bad job if they found body armor, rifles, handguns, servers, listening devices, and lists of names in their apartment). They also tried to recruit some of the Secret Service agents they were bribing to help them cover up (but, none of them helped) after they were tipped off. They don't know who tipped them off, but it seems like it wasn't any of the Secret Service agents they were giving all the stuff to. They still don't know what their overall goal was or if they are affiliated with anyone. They are both Iranian, but one of them reportedly bragged to a group of people that he worked for Pakistani intelligence years ago. They don't appear to have any connection to Pakistan, though. One of the two also defrauded people and issued fake checks 10 years ago in Missouri, but has had no criminal record or employment since then. It is still unclear where they got all of this money, guns, computer equipment, battering rams, servers, drones, and listening devices. https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1513268635929772035 quote:Somebody Tipped Off the 2 Fake Feds Arrested for Duping Secret Service, DOJ Says Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Apr 11, 2022 |
# ? Apr 11, 2022 16:58 |