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I looked up the designer and it's Matt Forbeck, who hasn't actually designed a game since 1999 when he created... Brave New World, one of the worst superhero games I've ever seen. There are apparently playtest materials coming out next week but I fully expect this to be a trainwreck.
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Apr 12, 2022 15:43
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GimpInBlack posted:Yep. His dad. Oh my god, of loving course.
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Apr 12, 2022 15:50
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He also worked on the superhero CCG Wildstorms, which was... okay? It let The Maxx fight Milk & Cheese, which probably made it the most '90s CCG ever. Also boy, this Wikipedia page: quote:Where it lacked rule ingenuity, cards were really well developed. Although not really referencing to their respective comic powers. Characters were very well balanced. Far better variety than MTG (Magic: The Gathering). Some of the strongest characters could not use certain cards or abilities due to special requirements. Weaker characters could apply almost all types of cards to benefit their "handicap". Characters were plentiful and very different from each other. One unique aspect to the game was that it held a close resemblance to the comics. No two alike character cards could be played regardless of who owned it. Special Plot Twist cards could allow multiple copies of the same unique character to be in play simultaneously. That section just ends there.
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Apr 12, 2022 16:05
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Splicer posted:Looks like it rounds to the nearest 5, check out "Swingline Speed 64 (13)" Yeah, I didn't notice that until just now. And to your point about levels not being innately bad, having some amount of square-based movement in a superhero game isn't necessarily bad. It's still a good way to keep track of where everyone is in a given scene, if you abstract the map enough. But with nothing to go on besides a sheet, having a 13-space speed next to a 6-space speed is making me think they're going to try and just do a D&D grid, and that is 100% not a good way to abstract out superhero movement in a scene. Just having enough space to make moving that much faster worthwhile is going to make a grid annoying to use.
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Apr 12, 2022 16:06
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I've been playing superhero games since Superhero:2044, and this is far from the worst system I've seen. The Marvel Superhero game (not MSH or the Cortex based one) is still the worst one for me.
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Apr 12, 2022 16:08
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I was browsing at my local Barnes & Noble over the weekend and racked with the graphic novels they had the "Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game: Playtest Rulebook" - 120 pages, $9.99 - on the shelf. I didn't pick it up because LOL at paying for a "playtest" product.  https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/marvel-multiverse-role-playing-game-matt-forbeck/1139660779?ean=9781302934248
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Apr 12, 2022 16:13
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Splicer posted:What's the beef with levels in a superhero game as a concept? This is (apparently) being directly used in formulas, which implies leveling up is the way you increase in power, not an indicator of power. And that's just downright weird for superhero stuff.
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Apr 12, 2022 16:49
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Yeah, I didn't notice that until just now. And to your point about levels not being innately bad, having some amount of square-based movement in a superhero game isn't necessarily bad. It's still a good way to keep track of where everyone is in a given scene, if you abstract the map enough. But with nothing to go on besides a sheet, having a 13-space speed next to a 6-space speed is making me think they're going to try and just do a D&D grid, and that is 100% not a good way to abstract out superhero movement in a scene. Just having enough space to make moving that much faster worthwhile is going to make a grid annoying to use. It just doesn't work for a game where turns can contain moments like "The Sentry grapples Carnage and then moves to orbit." or "The Hulk lifts the Las Vegas strip off the ground." Even beyond such obvious scaling issues, I've been going through classic Spider-Man comics, and they're constantly changing locale in chase scenes or the like on a scale you couldn't really do in 5-foot squares. It's the kind of thing that might work if you were just focusing on a Marvel Knights street-level game with Daredevil, Moon Knight, Punisher, characters that are generally just a little extra, it could work, but beyond that it just seems like a way to sell minis... but there's already several Marvel games for that, if that's your thing.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:03
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Forbeck has some design credits throughout Marvel Heroic, but I suspect that's because he's Marvel's goto "superhero encyclopedia" guy.FMguru posted:I was browsing at my local Barnes & Noble over the weekend and racked with the graphic novels they had the "Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game: Playtest Rulebook" - 120 pages, $9.99 - on the shelf. You probably could have flipped those for $30/$40. Capitalism, man! Alien Rope Burn posted:It just doesn't work for a game where turns can contain moments like "The Sentry grapples Carnage and then moves to orbit." or "The Hulk lifts the Las Vegas strip off the ground." I've been noodling over a grid-based supers game for years, and I think it's doable, but it would require something like Lancer or Icon with a strong grid/narrative split. Hulk builds up "flip the table" points in the grid mini-game, then wins the grid mini-game and uses the flip-the-table points to lift the Las Vegas strip. I do not think this game is going to do that, though.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:18
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CitizenKeen posted:I've been noodling over a grid-based supers game for years, and I think it's doable, but it would require something like Lancer or Icon with a strong grid/narrative split. Hulk builds up "flip the table" points in the grid mini-game, then wins the grid mini-game and uses the flip-the-table points to lift the Las Vegas strip. imo, you can do something really interesting if make the grid a bit less abstract than something like Fate zones but a bit more abstract than a full D&D grid, then add that combat scene/noncombat scene divide. The point is, there's a lot of interesting work you can do in this context that I don't trust this game to do.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:41
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https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/marvelrpg Marvel's going to be on Demiplane, home of Adam Bradford, Pathfinder, and World of Darkness.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:44
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It's conceivable that if the dev had anything interesting to say about how moving around and engaging with the world actually happened he'd say so. Instead we get "we roll dice like THIS", a tech tree for shot web, and a "Hi, it's the 90s. Missed us?" character sheet.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:46
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It's a pretty horrible combination. Comic books are a visual medium so it wouldn't be too surprising for players to want a visual representation of what's happening. But at the same time the visuals in comic books are notoriously inconsistent which makes it very hard to display them on a grid or anything similar.
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Apr 12, 2022 18:20
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Grabbed these from the demiplane video. If you wanted to play M&M 4th Edition, this might be your chance. https://imgur.com/a/AY6wkSM Edit: Also, I missed that Demiplane had picked up Free League as well. CitizenKeen fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 18:33
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On the one hand it looks like they do have a level system -- Captain Marvel is rank 25, and on Spider-Man's full sheet he's rank 10 -- but I can't make any of those numbers add up to anything meaningful. Like, Spider-Man's modifiers are all +7. Marvel's are mostly +14, except for Resilience which is +9 and Agility which is +19. So maybe you can swap points around? And what relation do 7 and 14 have to 10 and 25? Still confident that this is going to be a mess, less confident about how, precisely. potatocubed fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 18:47
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potatocubed posted:On the one hand it looks like they do have a level system -- Captain Marvel is rank 25, and on Spider-Man's full sheet he's rank 10 -- but I can't make any of those numbers add up to anything meaningful. Captain Marvel is a Blaster, so she's more agile and less resilient than a Polymath, who is... everything fine? ninja edit: Which is dumb, because Captain Marvel is about as resilient as they come after, like, the Hulk.
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Apr 12, 2022 18:53
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potatocubed posted:On the one hand it looks like they do have a level system -- Captain Marvel is rank 25, and on Spider-Man's full sheet he's rank 10 -- but I can't make any of those numbers add up to anything meaningful. What the christ
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Apr 12, 2022 18:53
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potatocubed posted:I looked up the designer and it's Matt Forbeck, who hasn't actually designed a game since 1999 when he created... Brave New World, one of the worst superhero games I've ever seen. I was sure we'd had a review of this in F&F and I was right and...  Some of the art was definitely a decision.
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Apr 12, 2022 19:09
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Splicer posted:Ranged damage 3d6 + 77 + 9 Plus one for every focus point spent! They have 382 focus to spend. 
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Apr 12, 2022 19:26
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This was also the one with the demon summoning browser plug-in, wasn’t it?
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Apr 12, 2022 19:32
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PurpleXVI posted:I was sure we'd had a review of this in F&F and I was right and...
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Apr 12, 2022 19:46
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potatocubed posted:I looked up the designer and it's Matt Forbeck, who hasn't actually designed a game since 1999 when he created... Brave New World, one of the worst superhero games I've ever seen. Metaplot, super NPCs that drive the metaplot leaving your characters standing around doing nothing, lots of fanfic-level setting fiction in the rulebooks, supplement treadmill, lots of surprise reveals about what is really going in on (that you had to buy the full line of supplements to find out or make sense of), the books themselves were expensive and padded (big fonts and margins, lots of ugly line art, the aforementioned fiction, etc.), oh and did I mention the metaplot actually turned out to be linked to the company's other RPG line (Deadlands)? Best part: The character creation system - for a supers game - had zero room for player creativity. You picked an archetype (gadgeteer, blaster, brick, speedster, etc.) and got a pre-defined package of abilities to go with it. Whee. I'm pretty sure the system was all kinds of busted (typical 1990s Stupid Dice Tricks dice pool system, stretched to handle superpowers) but I never bothered to even look at how it actually did anything. The premise itself was kind of nifty (superheroes emerge in the early 1960s, history diverges at the point of the JFK assassination, and US is now an authoritarian dystopia) and it was at least trying something other than the usual "DC/Marvel with the serial numbers filed off", but literally everything about its execution - uggghh.
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Apr 12, 2022 19:50
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The most striking thing to me about BNW is that the designers seemed to have lost sight of the idea that superheroes save people from bad things happening to them, in favour of superheroes-as-wargame. There are plenty of archetypes who are useless at anything but combat. Like the Gasser, whose only power is being a walking war crime, to quote the F&F. I don't think locking PCs into a setting-specific power suite is a bad idea, per se. I wish more superhero games were more focused, instead of trying to be a Big Two universe where you can create absolutely any kind of character, which turns every superhero into a clunky universal engine. But boy oh boy did they gently caress it up
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Apr 12, 2022 20:01
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Halloween Jack posted:The most striking thing to me about BNW is that the designers seemed to have lost sight of the idea that superheroes save people from bad things happening to them, in favour of superheroes-as-wargame. There are plenty of archetypes who are useless at anything but combat. Like the Gasser, whose only power is being a walking war crime, to quote the F&F.
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Apr 12, 2022 20:05
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I kind of wonder if this is why we're getting a playtest. Like, if some executives at Disney have looked at "D&D as a brand" and at "Marvel as a brand" and decided they want to be a player in the TTRPG space, I don't think Forbeck will be able to gently caress it up easily. Like, by SA standards he can. Probably already has. But I feel like Marvel's going to want "sales metrics" and "retention" and so forth. And if the playtest reveals this to be reviled, then they'll hire somebody else? Maybe? It's possible it could just be a garbage fire, everybody moves on, and we get another Marvel game in ten years like clockwork.
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Apr 12, 2022 20:06
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I have a copy of the new Marvel playtest and am going over it right now. Posted something in the F&F thread already.
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Apr 12, 2022 20:24
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Hostile V posted:Ted Kaczynski, heroic Delta...[checks notes] militia terrorist! With the power to...[frantically checks notes] e-explode and survive and...keep doing it! (One guy's power is actually to transmute other matter into oxygen. The science behind it is, uh, interesting.)
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Apr 12, 2022 20:26
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I have a copy of the new Marvel playtest and am going over it right now. Posted something in the F&F thread already. Where'd you get the digital edition?
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Apr 12, 2022 20:29
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CitizenKeen posted:Where'd you get the digital edition? Barnes and Noble Nook edition
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Apr 12, 2022 20:37
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I wonder how the Marvel RPG will deal with character generation. The reason people to this day think you can't make new characters in Marvel Heroic is because Marvel didn't want people to play anything but their characters, so they had to sneak it in under 'adapting characters not covered' or similar.
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Apr 12, 2022 21:05
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CitizenKeen posted:https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/marvelrpg Wonder if they'll support all World of Darkness editions or just 5.
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Apr 12, 2022 21:08
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MonsieurChoc posted:Wonder if they'll support all World of Darkness editions or just 5. https://www.worldofdarknessnexus.com/ I assume only whatever the most recent edition is, because developing for multiple editions would be harder. Also, this whole "Nexus" versus "Demiplane" branding is... weird. Like, how is demiplane different from nexus?
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Apr 12, 2022 21:41
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It's sad or adorable that they have a chart with geometric modifiers for your character's pick-poo poo-up rolls
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Apr 12, 2022 21:41
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The ever popular "your chance to run out of ammunition is random" as well. Could only be better if they have ammunition on the price lists..
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Apr 12, 2022 21:50
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gently caress it, just bring back the old TSR game. FASERIP forever.
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Apr 12, 2022 22:18
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Unhappy Meal posted:Plus one for every focus point spent! They have 382 focus to spend.
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Apr 12, 2022 22:20
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Splicer posted:Does the 3d6 do anything on other numbers or is it the roll literally just 89 to 104 damage with a 1 in 72 chance of a funky crit? So if the Marvel die is a 1, then if you succeed it's a "Yes, and" result with a lot of abilities having built in bonuses. If the Marvel die is a 1 and you fail then it's a "No, but" result (which is No, but good stuff, and is confusing because the book calls it a "No, and" result, which I always understood to mean No, and bad stuff). So you have a 1/6 chance of a roll being moderately more interesting.
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Apr 12, 2022 22:35
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the mechanics are so complicated new players will not be able to have a good time but the mechanics are so bad veteran ttrpg players will not be able to have a good time. this system sucks! has anyone here played ryuutama
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Apr 12, 2022 22:45
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CitizenKeen posted:So if the Marvel die is a 1, then if you succeed it's a "Yes, and" result with a lot of abilities having built in bonuses.
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Apr 12, 2022 23:13
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pog boyfriend posted:the mechanics are so complicated new players will not be able to have a good time but the mechanics are so bad veteran ttrpg players will not be able to have a good time. this system sucks! has anyone here played ryuutama It’s so wild that they either reinvented or stole In Nomine’s d666. I have run Ryuutama a couple times! I dig it.
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