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woozy pawsies posted:Very important to bring postmodernism into a debate about sports inclusion and physiology. What is a chair? Does a chair have chairness? Does red have a priori redness? What is truth? do the british and Americans actually count as human beings or is this a lie we tell ourselves
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Apr 16, 2022 08:29
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woozy pawsies posted:Very important to bring postmodernism into a debate about sports inclusion and physiology. What is a chair? Does a chair have chairness? Does red have a priori redness? What is truth? The ridiculousness is the point. "What even is gender maaaan" when asked if trans women are women. The thing that predicates the discussion of whether trans women should be competing with women, and men with men, at all. If trans women are men then why would they compete with women? If you don't think trans women are women, it entirely undermines any possible reasoning you could have for not including trans women in womens sports. In a thread thats had a person banned + 30'd, and three seperate accounts perma'd, with many comments about how this thread is a honey pot, it's entirely reasonable to wonder why someone like myco is so invested in not giving an answer to the question that everyone else can answer in just 1 word. Especially when they will not say anything concrete, choosing instead to only respond in vagueries and questions. There's a reason why only one person has said its a meaningless question. Keep in mind this all started because I responded rather aggressively in frustration at a different poster entirely who continued to use harmful terminology - in this case they used the same words (with different meaning) as rabid phobes who participate in these discussions, "mediocre biological men". Myco jumped in on their own perogative to, and I quote, talk about the "ontological" existence of trans women in response to the "are trans women women" question I originally asked of another poster to make a point. Given the wider context of this issue outside of this thread, and the behavior of people within this thread, it stands to reason to question the motives of people who like Myco, can't answer the questions, can't make a point of their own, and won't explain the reasoning for why they are doing what they are doing Minera posted:sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Precisely. Sometimes a sealion asking questions about the Ontological Trans Women is a transphobe. Ash Crimson posted:Are trans women women is a pretty easy question to answer; the answer is: Yes And again, it does beg the question of why its so hard for myco to just answer. Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Apr 16, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2022 08:44
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Dr. Stab posted:Let's check in on how this issue is being addressed in the real world. Same in Utah. There are four transgender athletes at the high school level in the state. 3 are guys. The legislation there (which the governor veto'd and was overridden) only targets girls' sports.
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Apr 16, 2022 08:45
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I've seen anti trans individuals and organisations on social media, the tv and other platforms use the refrain "define woman/but what is a woman" as a way of stopping any greater conversation about the inclusion and acceptance of trans people I'm not saying that's whats happening here im just pointing that out
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Apr 16, 2022 08:49
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moonmazed posted:this ain't it chief it's absolutely possible to overreact to innocent posts. you can see it on the last page! yeah, that's the nature and the point of dogwhistles, but at the same time, if you actually read through brake for mooses posts, or read their posts in the thread, its quite clear what the intention of what they said was. it's possible to just correct someone's terminology without automatically assuming they are a transphobe and becoming antagonistic against them for no real reason. it's incredibly tiresome to automatically assume everyone is a bigot out to get you, both for your own mental health and for the patience of online discussion groups and mods, which is part of why trans threads have been so tumultous on these forums in the past, with people willing to apply blanket statements of transphobia across entire sects of the forum over the most petty poo poo and then demanding mod intervention until the mods get tired enough of it to just blanket silence the discussion instead.
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Apr 16, 2022 08:51
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Ash Crimson posted:I've seen anti trans individuals and organisations on social media, the tv and other platforms use the refrain "define woman/but what is a woman" as a way of stopping any greater conversation about the inclusion and acceptance of trans people Especially the Mumsnet UK TERF crowd. They use CW:Transphobia 'Adult Human Female' as a rallying cry and love to lead into it by demanding anyone they're talking to define 'woman' so they can use their particular definition to exclude transgender women (who they do not class as 'female'). It's semantic bullshit, but what isn't with bigots.
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Apr 16, 2022 08:52
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Minera posted:it's absolutely possible to overreact to innocent posts. you can see it on the last page! yeah, that's the nature and the point of dogwhistles, but at the same time, if you actually read through brake for mooses posts, or read their posts in the thread, its quite clear what the intention of what they said was. it's possible to just correct someone's terminology without automatically assuming they are a transphobe and becoming antagonistic against them for no real reason. it's incredibly tiresome to automatically assume everyone is a bigot out to get you, both for your own mental health and for the patience of online discussion groups and mods, which is part of why trans threads have been so tumultous on these forums in the past, with people willing to apply blanket statements of transphobia across entire sects of the forum over the most petty poo poo. But what is an innocent post? More importantly, what is love?
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Apr 16, 2022 08:53
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my posts are innoncent and pure, and all other posts are the filthy stains of my posting enemies
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Apr 16, 2022 08:55
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Minera posted:it's absolutely possible to overreact to innocent posts. you can see it on the last page! yeah, that's the nature and the point of dogwhistles, but at the same time, if you actually read through brake for mooses posts, or read their posts in the thread, its quite clear what the intention of what they said was. it's possible to just correct someone's terminology without automatically assuming they are a transphobe and becoming antagonistic against them for no real reason. it's incredibly tiresome to automatically assume everyone is a bigot out to get you, both for your own mental health and for the patience of online discussion groups and mods, which is part of why trans threads have been so tumultous on these forums in the past, with people willing to apply blanket statements of transphobia across entire sects of the forum over the most petty poo poo and then demanding mod intervention until the mods get tired enough of it to just blanket silence the discussion instead. Note that I have not mentioned Brake again at all. My point in responding to them like I did didnt land, I will grant you that. Liquid Communism posted:Especially the Mumsnet UK TERF crowd. Not just mumsnet etc, it happened to Jackson at her confirmation hearing https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/03/25/ketanji-brown-jackson-woman/ Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Apr 16, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2022 08:56
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Liquid Communism posted:Especially the Mumsnet UK TERF crowd. But what is a human
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Apr 16, 2022 08:57
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Ash Crimson posted:But what is a human Someone who does, or does not, participate fairly in sports
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Apr 16, 2022 09:03
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Let's have a really dehumanising and abstract conversation about what being a woman or a man entails, rather than discussing the fact that we live in a climate in which trans people, and the greater lgbtq community, are being openly compared to child groomers in the Western media
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Apr 16, 2022 09:05
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Ash Crimson posted:Let's have a really dehumanising and abstract conversation about what being a woman or a man entails, rather than discussing the fact that we live in a climate in which trans people, and the greater lgbtq community, are being openly compared to child groomers in the Western media But have you considered that I'm not touching you? I'm not touching you? Im just asking philosophical questions that are likely to bear fruitful tangents? I'm not touching you??? Have you seen this nice chunk of rock I'm basking on?
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Apr 16, 2022 09:08
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The whole conversation around trans women is so hosed that we are hung up on a minority of a minority being involved in sports and whether they pose an existential threat to cis women, as if this hasn't been an issue that was brought up in the previous decades Even worse if you are a trans man and you are infantalised to the point of non existence Sports is the thin end of the anti trans wedge, next is inclusion of trans women in spaces considered to be the domain of cis women and i can guarantee you that the same arguments about trans women being an existential threat to cis women are already being levied to justify discrimination
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Apr 16, 2022 09:12
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Ash Crimson posted:The whole conversation around trans women is so hosed that we are hung up on a minority of a minority being involved in sports and whether they pose an existential threat to cis women, as if this hasn't been an issue that was brought up in the previous decades The very same arguments have already led to people self appointing themselves Toilet Guardian and assaulting butch lesbians, assuming them to be trans women. The group thats apparently the one we need to protect from the trans lobby turning into men.
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Apr 16, 2022 09:17
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Miss Broccoli posted:Someone who does, or does not, participate fairly in sports cheating at football until they change my gender ID
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Apr 16, 2022 09:19
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Mycophobia beleives in the blanchard typology and wrongly asserts that ist has not been debunked. Mycophobia is a rusted on hard out transphobe. Koos will you please take this as proof that people who are not you or the mod team have a very effective 6th sense for when these people are being disengenuous shitheads? Myco is a transphobe through and through. Theres a reason they won't answer the question, they know the answer will get them probated. They are here sealioning. I hadn't looked at their rap sheet until just now, just to have that out there. E: Another one  This person think that trans women in particular are either gay men who become women to get more dick, or are straight men who transition to get themselves off. Is this enough yet to punish the sea lion Koos? Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Apr 16, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2022 09:37
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Lmao blanchard was the same person rating trans and gender non conforming kids based upon their attractiveness or similar criteria, not sure if we want to listen to the ideas of a person directly involved in implementing anti trans conversion therapy
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Apr 16, 2022 09:41
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I can't imagine why trans women would take issue with a theory that presupposes they are inherently fetishistic beings that are intrinsically narcissistic, not least one that's directly perpetrated some of the worst stereotypes revolving around trans women Nevermind its lack of explanation for the existence of trans men and non binary people Guess they must just be cowards
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Apr 16, 2022 09:45
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Can not beleive that "fruitful philosophical tangents" are coming from the most hard out transphobes in a thread on Trans People Koos.
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Apr 16, 2022 09:46
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Minera posted:it's absolutely possible to overreact to innocent posts. you can see it on the last page! yeah, that's the nature and the point of dogwhistles, but at the same time, if you actually read through brake for mooses posts, or read their posts in the thread, its quite clear what the intention of what they said was. it's possible to just correct someone's terminology without automatically assuming they are a transphobe and becoming antagonistic against them for no real reason. it's incredibly tiresome to automatically assume everyone is a bigot out to get you, both for your own mental health and for the patience of online discussion groups and mods, which is part of why trans threads have been so tumultous on these forums in the past, with people willing to apply blanket statements of transphobia across entire sects of the forum over the most petty poo poo and then demanding mod intervention until the mods get tired enough of it to just blanket silence the discussion instead. Please peruse the new evidence entered on your earliest convenience, your honour
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Apr 16, 2022 09:48
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Miss Broccoli posted:Mycophobia beleives in the blanchard typology and wrongly asserts that ist has not been debunked. Mycophobia is a rusted on hard out transphobe. nah they'll just probe you for violating the 'no posting about posters' rule
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Apr 16, 2022 09:49
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I will yell at koos if he does that, but also it's the middle of the night where he is so he's probably going to be a while.
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Apr 16, 2022 09:52
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Honestly who cares, anything remotely to do with the decency, equality and treatment of various groups of people who stray from the "norm" in terms of sexuality, race, ethnicity, gender, religion etc is going to be subject to this "just asking questions" game of cat and mouse navel gazing 
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Apr 16, 2022 09:53
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All you can is point out that this continuous "debate" only serves to harm the groups that are being talked about
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Apr 16, 2022 09:54
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:nah they'll just probe you for violating the 'no posting about posters' rule I hope not. I hope he takes it as a sign that on minority issues, he should default to listening to minorities when they spot a sea lion branded cigar acting like a cigar. Ash Crimson posted:All you can is point out that this continuous "debate" only serves to harm the groups that are being talked about Myco thinks we're a bunch of fetishists, the harm for them is the point.
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Apr 16, 2022 09:55
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Okay but myco hasn't proven they arent simply a brain floating in a perfectly cylindrical hermetically sealed vat filled to the brim with piss and turds so who cares
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Apr 16, 2022 10:00
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Like if you seriously believe in agp theory then go transition and let us know how that goes for you Brb gonna update my drivers license for fetish related reasons
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Apr 16, 2022 10:04
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Ash Crimson posted:Like if you seriously believe in agp theory then go transition and let us know how that goes for you The funniest part about it is if you read blanchards writing, ESPECIALLY stuff that isnt academic publications, it becomes increasingly obvious that the man is projecting *hard*. Like just scroll through his twitter for long enough and you can't not wonder if reigning in his urge to be a sex pest is a daily occurence for him
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Apr 16, 2022 10:18
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I think trans people would have a lot more tolerance for this bullshit if it wasn't literally being used as a justification to ban or exclude us from large parts of society But it's cool because its a joke, like on top gear
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Apr 16, 2022 13:23
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Miss Broccoli posted:The funniest part about it is if you read blanchards writing, ESPECIALLY stuff that isnt academic publications, it becomes increasingly obvious that the man is projecting *hard*. Like just scroll through his twitter for long enough and you can't not wonder if reigning in his urge to be a sex pest is a daily occurence for him Oh? Is he reigning it in now?
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Apr 16, 2022 14:00
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Dr. Stab posted:Let's check in on how this issue is being addressed in the real world. Imagine growing up knowing that the entire groaning apparatus of a legislative system—the lawyers, aides, subcommittee secretaries, web servers, legal librarians, catering, regulation drafting interns, scheduling procedures, all of it—was activated to write and pass a bill that said “gently caress you, in particular.” The real world expression of these debates is sanitized human sacrifice in the name of community building. The lives of an incredibly small number of people are devastated in order to make a much larger number of people feel scared and then powerful.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:18
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Sharkie posted:Oh? Is he reigning it in now? wait is ray an actual sex predator or?
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Apr 16, 2022 14:45
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  I present to the court the true intention of these bills. This is from Australias save womens sports bill.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:12
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Miss Broccoli posted:wait is ray an actual sex predator or? I've heard people who have said he's been really, really creepy and inappropriate with them, though afaik it hasn't crossed into "sex predator" territory.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:15
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A lot of these old school sexologists prioritize their research knowledge over their patients' privacy and comfort, and generally feel entitled to know everything about their bodies and sexual experiences. Working with them can be very violating, but I don't think there's any specific allegations against him like there are for John Money.
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Apr 16, 2022 15:38
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Ash Crimson posted:I think trans people would have a lot more tolerance for this bullshit if it wasn't literally being used as a justification to ban or exclude us from large parts of society There really needs to be an immediate re-evaluation of the mod staff's instincts regarding what does and does not "promote thoughtful philosophical discussion" given the instantaneous reveal of that last poster's history and intentions lmfao
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Apr 16, 2022 15:40
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pretend I posted calm-hitler.jpg
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Apr 16, 2022 16:14
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ram dass in hell posted:There really needs to be an immediate re-evaluation of the mod staff's instincts regarding what does and does not "promote thoughtful philosophical discussion" given the instantaneous reveal of that last poster's history and intentions lmfao No one would ask Black people to engage in good faith with a phrenologist!
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Apr 16, 2022 16:20
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Hmmmm this seems familiar. Let’s whip ourselves into a frenzy and round up a posse.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:28
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