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Waffleman_ posted:The Dom has the power of family. Yeah, he has a Daughtress now.
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Apr 20, 2022 20:06
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Ethiser posted:There’s a lot of disparaging of the Guntank going on in this thread and it is extremely upsetting. The movies replacing the Guntank with another Guncannon was when the franchise started to go downhill. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER
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Apr 20, 2022 20:24
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tsob posted:Yeah, he has a Daughtress now. Is that what we're calling the Dom that took part in the Gundam Olympics? The Dom is inferior to the Gouf because it lacks a proper theme song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am77biCIj9U Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 20:39
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thats a theme song for the gouf custom tho
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Apr 20, 2022 20:59
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tsob posted:Wait...why are you taking weapons out of the consideration? Like, what are you actually considering at that point? Armor, power generation and speed? How does the Zaku II rank above the Guncannon even with that caveat, given the Guncannon is at least as fast as a Zaku II, has luna titanium armor, and has a demonstrably more powerful reactor given it can power beam weapons. There are several placements I don't agree with on that list, but the Guncannon's placement is just plain weird to me. What part of the Zaku II is actually superior to the Guncannon? To be exact it's because the Guncannon has very poor close range ability, so the Zaku II is more versatile. If we put weapons back on the ranking is basically the same. But Guncannon is equal or Superior to Zaku II it's just a different type of Machine meant for a different role.
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Apr 20, 2022 20:59
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The Dom is basically a pure upgrade to the Zaku while also being cost effective and easily mass produced. The Giant Bazooka is extremely strong and heat weapons are still get dangerous and capable melee weapons. It is just that Zeon, being Zeon, threw good resources away trying to bank on superweapond or psychics.
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Apr 20, 2022 21:07
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well, later psychic superweapons were very much worth the effort. but that was far too late for zeon.
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Apr 20, 2022 21:09
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Stairmaster posted:it's rocket glide ability and huge bazooka means it's not completely useless until long after the gryps conflict. look at what rommel is able to do in ZZ gundam with zero logistical support Rommel was able to do the same or more with Zakus and Gelgoogs, even ignoring that his Doms were actually Dwadges. Which have better general performance, as well as several weapons the basic Dom lacked (vulcans, heat ax, machine gun etc). All of which suggests that any mobile suit can be tweaked and it's performance improved to keep it relevant for a long time. Which is probably why the Federation were able to get by for a while by taking existing GM models and improving them to make GMIIs and then improving some of those GMIIs to make GMIIIs, could make a cut rate Zeta in the Re-GZ that was still able to keep up with contemporary units in UC0092 and the Alex saw service a decade and a half later as the Tristan etc. Arc Hammer posted:The Dom is inferior to the Gouf because it lacks a proper theme song. The Gouf is legitimately one of the best suits Zeon made, and had more successes against the Gundam than any other unit in the One Year War. Yes, the Zeong destroyed the Gundam, but Goufs damaged the Gundam on at least 3 occasions and a couple of nameless yahoos were able to do more damage to the Gundam than the Black Tristars, Dozle Zabi, Challia Bull or Lalah managed using some Goufs. MonsterEnvy posted:To be exact it's because the Guncannon has very poor close range ability, so the Zaku II is more versatile. Poor close range ability? We see the Guncannon in melee fights occasionally in the original show, and it just brawls it's way to victory using it's strength and durability. Including against Zaku IIs. Your contention though is that the Zaku II's ability to engage in melee fights, which it can only do with any real efficiency by using an optional weapon that is often not equipped at all, counts for more than superior weapons at normal range and superior armor? Okay. That seems ludicrous to me, but sure, I guess  ImpAtom posted:The Dom is basically a pure upgrade to the Zaku while also being cost effective and easily mass produced. The Giant Bazooka is extremely strong and heat weapons are still get dangerous and capable melee weapons. The giant bazooka is really strong. If it hits. Which it basically never does. And if you never achieve anything despite having amazing potential, then all that potential doesn't mean squat. The giant bazooka is a terrible weapon for mobile suit on mobile suit fights. It'd be great against capital ships or something, but it's awful for it's actual, intended role. Any resources put into those giant bazookas were basically a complete waste of time, because while they look good on paper, they're next to worthless in the field. Zeon had to chase after superweapons though, because the Federation had leveled the playing field using mobile suits, and Zeon were never going to be able to tilt it again by using more mobile suits, since the Federation has more resources and more people and can thus churn out more mobile suits with more pilots than Zeon will ever be able to. So Zeon needed some kind of new force multiplier the Federation didn't have, to match the successes they had early in the war when they alone had mobile suits and could use that technological asymmetry to beat back the Federation.
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Apr 20, 2022 21:24
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Stairmaster posted:thats a theme song for the gouf custom tho Fine, fine. I'll post the other Gouf song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKqs1JLDbp4
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Apr 20, 2022 21:26
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tsob posted:Rommel was able to do the same or more with Zakus and Gelgoogs, even ignoring that his Doms were actually Dwadges. Which have better general performance, as well as several weapons the basic Dom lacked (vulcans, heat ax, machine gun etc). All of which suggests that any mobile suit can be tweaked and it's performance improved to keep it relevant for a long time. Which is probably why the Federation were able to get by for a while by taking existing GM models and improving them to make GMIIs and then improving some of those GMIIs to make GMIIIs, could make a cut rate Zeta in the Re-GZ that was still able to keep up with contemporary units in UC0092 and the Alex saw service a decade and a half later as the Tristan etc. a dwadge is still a one year war era suit. And the GM thing is very much a ship of thesus situation, I mean look at the III it's clearly got gundam mk. ii parts. also a dom can use a machine gun  we see it do so in quite a few animated features. It's just the ones sent after the gundam know better than to bother with ballistic weapons.
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Apr 20, 2022 21:38
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Stairmaster posted:a dwadge is still a one year war era suit. And the GM thing is very much a ship of thesus situation, I mean look at the III it's clearly got gundam mk. ii parts. Oh I know the Dwadge is a One Year War suit, it's just that it's a One Year War suit with much better performance than the regular Dom. So Rommel getting use out of one in ZZ isn't as impressive as it would be if he was doing the same with a Dom. As is, the Gelgoogs he uses are more vanilla in performance to the ones we see in the 0079 TV show/movies by comparison. Also, while the Gundam's luna titanium armor was strong against Zaku II machine gun fire, (a) even repeated hits to the same area would eventually crack the armor (which Sayla warns Amuro about, early on in the show) and (b) Zeon started using smaller, but faster 90mm shells instead of the 120mm ones they were using at the outset of the war, which performed better against luna titanium. So said machine gun would still have done more against the Gundam than the giant bazooka, since at least they'd hit occasionally.
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Apr 20, 2022 21:46
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tsob posted:Poor close range ability? We see the Guncannon in melee fights occasionally in the original show, and it just brawls it's way to victory using it's strength and durability. Including against Zaku IIs. Your contention though is that the Zaku II's ability to engage in melee fights, which it can only do with any real efficiency by using an optional weapon that is often not equipped at all, counts for more than superior weapons at normal range and superior armor? Okay. That seems ludicrous to me, but sure, I guess That is more the Pilot then the Guncannon itself.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:08
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the guncannon was a good design that's why it saw mass production
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Apr 20, 2022 22:11
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tsob posted:Rommel was able to do the same or more with Zakus and Gelgoogs, even ignoring that his Doms were actually Dwadges. Which have better general performance, as well as several weapons the basic Dom lacked (vulcans, heat ax, machine gun etc). All of which suggests that any mobile suit can be tweaked and it's performance improved to keep it relevant for a long time. Which is probably why the Federation were able to get by for a while by taking existing GM models and improving them to make GMIIs and then improving some of those GMIIs to make GMIIIs, could make a cut rate Zeta in the Re-GZ that was still able to keep up with contemporary units in UC0092 and the Alex saw service a decade and a half later as the Tristan etc. They are no more 'next to worthless' than any other weapon. "They don't kill the protagonists in the anime" isnt a really relevant measure of power. Against everything that isn't Amuro they are drat effective. Also in the novels Amuro dies to a Dom so the lowly Don has beaten Amuro more than Char has.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:That is more the Pilot then the Guncannon itself. We see multiple pilots do the same kind of thing, so it's not really. ImpAtom posted:They are no more 'next to worthless' than any other weapon. "They don't kill the protagonists in the anime" isnt a really relevant measure of power. Against everything that isn't Amuro they are drat effective. I didn't say "they don't kill the protagonist"; I said "they don't kill anyone". As in, the Dom never scores a single kill with the giant bazooka against anyone in 0079, and any variation or descendant of a Dom only scores a kill with a giant bazooka once in any UC animation ever (I'm not sure about Build stuff). A kill it has to press the muzzle of the bazooka against it's enemy to land. So, again, if they never hit against anyone, not even background mooks, then no, they're not really effective compared to anything else. Also, even in the novel, Amuro had to stand completely stock still for several seconds in the midst of a battle for the Dom to do anything, and the Dom in the novel uses a beam bazooka powered by the suit's reactor and not the animation's giant bazooka. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 22:18
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Amuro dying at the end of the novel is not about the effectiveness of the suits in question, but his newtype moment that takes his consciousness away from the battle as he fully awakens to sense and empathize with the entire battlefield (to my recollection). If he was fully engaged it never happens, novel Amuro is on the edge of more dangerous than anime Amuro except for the part where he dies and becomes a ghost. Been some years since I read it tho.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:27
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Disregarding weaponry is a bit of a tell here. What mobile suits are to planes, beam weapons are to missiles. They made armor nearly irrelevant unless you were stacking it to ludicrous degrees. And even then as soon as you could put an I-Field on something the idea of armor plating starts to lose its luster once the I-Field becomes small enough to be close to the same weight. And both lose to maneuverability seen in later generations, because that beats both beams and the only other weapons system that can crack that much armor: bazookas. Regarding Guncannon vs. Zaku, it's revisionist to try and say the OYW-era Guncannon was inferior to the Zaku pound for pound. The Guncannon has better armor and can equip beam weapons. That alone is enough of a leap to put it ahead of what the Zaku can do. Even if the dates are a bit fuzzy, the Federation still has a problem of being late to the punch bowl with mobile suits. Even in The Origin animation canon, the Guncannons they deploy are extremely bare-bones and staffed with people who barely know how to operate them. The latter part is an issue the Federation struggles with for the entire war. Even disregarding that Zeon was training on mobile suits before the war started while the Federation still had tank brain, the Federation is 6-7 months behind in combat experience. They're not in a position to rotate experienced pilots off the front line to train new pilots because they simply don't have anyone who is an experienced pilot. Pilot experience kept the nth revision of the Zaku II in the field far longer than it had any right to be. But the moment the first handheld beam weapon was fired outside Side 7, the Zaku (and frankly Dom) was a dead platform.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:30
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tsob posted:We see multiple pilots do the same kind of thing, so it's not really. They hit plenty of things in extended universe stuff though? That is even discounting games where Code Fairy has a Dom with an extra huge cannon that sucks poo poo up in cutscene land.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:40
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I liked Iron Blooded Orphans lack of beam weapons cause it made Armor pretty important.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:50
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ImpAtom posted:They hit plenty of things in extended universe stuff though? That is even discounting games where Code Fairy has a Dom with an extra huge cannon that sucks poo poo up in cutscene land. Ah, so we should ignore that they're consistently portrayed as unable to hit in an entire medium, the primary medium the franchise works on, for that matter, because it's not true in a different medium? In other news, you can destroy the Gundam using a Zaku in quite a few games; so the Gundam isn't really superior to the Zaku, I guess? Actually, you can destroy more advanced units like the ZZ Gundam, Hi-Nu or V2 Gundam using a Zaku in several games, so far as I know; so none of the advancements of mobile suit technology in UC really meant squat, and really, all mobile suits are basically equivalent. We see Doms or Dom variations used in the 0079 TV show, 0079 movies, 08th MS Team, MS IGLOO: Apocalypse 0079, MS IGLOO 2, 0080, 0083, ZZ and Unicorn and in all those animations, it only manages a kill using the giant bazooka once. Your contention though is that we shouldn't draw any kind of conclusion from this about the actual efficiency of the weapon, and we should just ignore that and conclude it's as good as any other weapon because it's useful in other mediums, often in games where gameplay dictates that it has to be useful because basically anything can be done if the player grinds hard enough or has enough skill? Out of interest, what amount of evidence do you think we would need to conclude that any one weapon is better than another if various media show every one of them being useful in some context? tsob fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 22:52
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tsob posted:Ah, so we should ignore that they're consistently portrayed as unable to hit in an entire medium, the primary medium the franchise works on, for that matter, because it's not true in a different medium? In other news, you can destroy the Gundam using a Zaku in quite a few games; so the Gundam isn't really superior to the Zaku, I guess? Actually, you can destroy more advanced units like the ZZ Gundam, Hi-Nu or V2 Gundam using a Zaku in several games, so far as I know; so none of the advancements of mobile suit technology in UC really meant squat, and really, all mobile suits are basically equivalent. You've shifted your goalposts around so much it's kind of bizarre. The Dom scores one of the most memorable kills in the original series when it takes down Matilda's Medea in a single shot, which is enough to show that it is an effective weapon. We're also shown near misses that send the Guncannon and Guntank flying just by a near miss. They do not, in fact, kill Kai and Hayato because it is an anime but they effectively show that those weapons are dangerous. And yes, that is a weird example. The Zaku can absolutely destroy a Gundam? Like we see it happen in 0080. A machine being superior doesn't mean it can't lose to an inferior machine. Amuro in the RX-78-2 could probably whoop the poo poo out of a less talented pilot in the ZZ Gundam. Char in a Zaku II would likely have finished off the Gundam if anyone but Amuro had ended up in it. It's a plot point that Amuro is by a significant degree the best pilot for the Gundam and it can't function as well without him. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 01:02
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Clearly the Zaku II's weapons loadout was an ineffective boondoggle because the machine gun is showing bouncing off the Gundam.
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Apr 21, 2022 01:09
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Also I've been going back through clips and the Dom and Rick Dom kill a whole bunch of loving stuff? I'm not sure where you're getting "it only ever got one onscreen kill" when I see several from 0079 alone. Just from like five minutes of looking you've got the Medea, A Salamis, A Ball and loving up the White Base's engines and the heat saber is strong enough to cut through the Gundam's shield in a single blow.
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Apr 21, 2022 01:22
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ImpAtom posted:Also I've been going back through clips and the Dom and Rick Dom kill a whole bunch of loving stuff? I'm not sure where you're getting "it only ever got one onscreen kill" when I see several from 0079 alone. Just from like five minutes of looking you've got the Medea, A Salamis, A Ball and loving up the White Base's engines and the heat saber is strong enough to cut through the Gundam's shield in a single blow. It's probably because you've missed the fact I specifically referred to the Dom's giant bazooka throughout, while talking about how giving the fast unit such a cumbersome weapon was a bad idea. I didn't say "the Dom only got one kill"; I said "the Dom only ever got one kill with it's giant bazooka". Which, I'm assuming I'm going to have to qualify a little for the sake of clarity: "it only ever got one mobile unit kill with it's giant bazooka". I assume the salamis was taken out by a giant bazooka hit, but I also did say the giant bazooka would probably be great for things like ships; just not against mobile suits, which is meant to be the Dom's primary foe. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 01:29
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tsob posted:It's probably because you've missed the fact I specifically referred to the Dom's giant bazooka throughout, while talking about how giving the fast unit such a cumbersome weapon was a bad idea. I didn't say "the Dom only got one kill"; I said "the Dom only got one kill with it's giant bazooka". No, I did not. The Doms in the Matilda episode are drawn so badly the bazooka only vaugly looks like the Giant Bazooka or maybe the Zaku bazooka (which would be weird as they previously had the Giant Bazookas but you know fuckin' 0079 animation) but the Salamis for example is absolutely a Giant Bazooka kill. tsob posted:I also did say the giant bazooka would probably be great for things like ships; just not against mobile suits, which is meant to be the Dom's primary foe. It would be perfectly good against mobile suits if it hits. The fact that it is frequently evaded because Doms are usually going up against protagonist units doesn't nullify that because protagonist units dodge attacks all the time. There is a reason 90% of Gundam fights end up in close range combat. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 01:42
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ImpAtom posted:It would be perfectly good against mobile suits if it hits. The fact that it is frequently evaded because Doms are usually going up against protagonist units doesn't nullify that because protagonist units dodge attacks all the time. There is a reason 90% of Gundam fights end up in close range combat. "If it hits" being the operative words there. It's not just protagonists who evade the giant bazooka though, and we see background mooks evade it too.
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Apr 21, 2022 01:48
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tsob posted:"If it hits" being the operative words there. It's not just protagonists who evade the giant bazooka though, and we see background mooks evade it too. We see background mooks evade a lot of stuff until they get hit. That's the point. Gundam is usually a game of rocket tag and the RX-78-2's big advantage was that it could fail that game a couple of times. I'm not sure why you're super invested in "Actually the Giant Bazooka is the worst" but it isn't backed up by anything in series beyond the usual choreography of mook-piloted mecha. It is absolutely treated as a powerful weapon that can wreck poo poo. Like here is a better example. The Hyper Bazooka has the same firepower as the Giant Bazooka. However unlike the Giant Bazooka it is in the hands of Amuro and so it is significantly more effective. If you gave the Doms the Hyper Bazooka and Amuro the Giant Bazooka, guess which one would be wrecking poo poo?
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Apr 21, 2022 01:54
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tsob posted:"If it hits" being the operative words there. It's not just protagonists who evade the giant bazooka though, and we see background mooks evade it too. That's a problem for every weapon but the Beam Magnum and the G2's nuke bazooka, unless maybe you're going against Leos. Saying a weapon is weak because it has to hit is like saying the Gundam is useless because it needs a pilot.
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Apr 21, 2022 02:06
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ImpAtom posted:We see background mooks evade a lot of stuff until they get hit. That's the point. Gundam is usually a game of rocket tag and the RX-78-2's big advantage was that it could fail that game a couple of times. I'm not sure why you're super invested in "Actually the Giant Bazooka is the worst" but it isn't backed up by anything in series beyond the usual choreography of mook-piloted mecha. It is absolutely treated as a powerful weapon that can wreck poo poo. I'm "super invested" in it because I think it's an interesting discussion and people are responding. So why wouldn't I respond too? I'd say the view is backed up though, because you can find multiple examples of most other weapon from most other suits (especially the main weapons) being used successfully so far as I know, even for stuff that sees less representation. The Dom gets shown a lot though, but has almost no success with that one weapon specifically. Which is it's main weapon. By contrast, the Gundam's hyper bazooka is a secondary weapon, which is often evaded itself, but whose successes can at least partly be put down to the same "protagonist powers" that mean protagonists evade others attacks; especially when the protagonist has some degree of prescience. Which kind of makes a difference. If Amuro started piloting a Dom and hitting with the giant bazooka then it still wouldn't make the giant bazooka a great weapon for the unit in the hands of most pilots, it'd just mean really skilled pilots with precognition can make it work. It'd still be a bad combination for most pilots. chiasaur11 posted:That's a problem for every weapon but the Beam Magnum and the G2's nuke bazooka, unless maybe you're going against Leos. I'm not saying that though, I'm saying it's bad because it basically never hits and so a faster weapon would be more suitable for the Dom specifically, since it's such a fast unit and primarily meant for taking on other suits; because faster weapons do hit a lot more regularly, in almost every pilots hands. A view that is backed up in universe by the way, because most Doms or Dom variants post One Year War do equip something like a rifle or machine gun in addition to, or even instead of the giant bazooka. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 02:12
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The actual Actors in the story seem to agree, all the Dom successors in the series tend to have other weapons than the big bazooka. The Tropen and Dom II have a machine gun, and the Dias have beam pistols.
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Apr 21, 2022 02:19
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Gaius Marius posted:The actual Actors in the story seem to agree, all the Dom successors in the series tend to have other weapons than the big bazooka. The Tropen and Dom II have a machine gun, and the Dias have beam pistols. I had no idea that Natsume Swanson had ever piloted a Dom. The more you know!
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Apr 21, 2022 02:25
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More suits need beam pistols. I like how Conroy's Jegan has one so he can complete his dream of driving a patrol labor.
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Apr 21, 2022 02:27
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Arc Hammer posted:More suits need beam pistols. I like how Conroy's Jegan has one so he can complete his dream of driving a patrol labor. I need a Super Robot Wars to have Patlabor and The Plot to Assassinate Gihren in the same game, just so Goto can bring a Labor as backup to arrest Cecelia Irene.
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Apr 21, 2022 02:33
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Gaius Marius posted:The actual Actors in the story seem to agree, all the Dom successors in the series tend to have other weapons than the big bazooka. The Tropen and Dom II have a machine gun, and the Dias have beam pistols. Bazookas hardly disappear from usage, though, it's just that a lot of suits that have bazookas end up having secondary weapons to support the bazooka and cover for its weaknesses, which is part of a general trend of mobile suits tending to carry more and more varied weapon systems as the franchise goes on while OYW suits tend to have one or two primary weapons and maybe some vulcans and a melee option. The Dreissen is shown using the giant bazooka as late as Unicorn, for example. Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 02:42
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Bazookas in general are shown to be just as powerful and reliable as beam rifles throughout the UC saga, and Darryl puts all of the Rick Dom's ranged weapons to excellent use with the Psycho Zaku (and his buddy Fisher does very well with his actual Rick Dom). Even in the original 0079, both Amuro and Char rack up plenty of kills or crippling shots with their suits' bazookas.
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Apr 21, 2022 03:36
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they animate the shells as being slow enough to easily dodge. there's no other reason why that should be the case.
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Apr 21, 2022 03:42
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Kanos posted:Bazookas hardly disappear from usage, though, it's just that a lot of suits that have bazookas end up having secondary weapons to support the bazooka and cover for its weaknesses, which is part of a general trend of mobile suits tending to carry more and more varied weapon systems as the franchise goes on while OYW suits tend to have one or two primary weapons and maybe some vulcans and a melee option. Honestly I'm skimming the argument, but it seems Tsob's complaints are double. That the Dom's form doesn't match it's intended use and that's it's armaments don't match it's role. If you think of it in terms of just MSG then you can see how the Zeonic engineer's thought. Now that the Federation is fielding GM's and Gundams and what not, and their first encounters being with Gudnarium casted suits they thought they needed to field something with a heavier fire power than the Machine Gun that was fine at killing Saberfish and Tanks. When they realize that the GM's are weak as hell they switch to the other dom flavors with more diversified weapons, but too late. Not giving up the Bazooka, but adding to it's armaments.
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Apr 21, 2022 04:36
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Kanos posted:Clearly the Zaku II's weapons loadout was an ineffective boondoggle because the machine gun is showing bouncing off the Gundam. I was just watching those first episodes. Char hits the Gundam with tons of stuff over the first 4 episodes. He is repeatedly amazed at how durable it is, as the same stuff would have easily destroyed a Zaku. The Machine Gun being Ineffective is why he swaps to the Heat Hawk and Bazooka, and Amuro is barely able to keep up because of how inexperienced he is. He's also amazed by the Beam Rifle that one shot a Zaku. As stuff like that was exclusive to Battleships at the time. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 05:46
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Kanos posted:Bazookas hardly disappear from usage, though, it's just that a lot of suits that have bazookas end up having secondary weapons to support the bazooka and cover for its weaknesses, which is part of a general trend of mobile suits tending to carry more and more varied weapon systems as the franchise goes on while OYW suits tend to have one or two primary weapons and maybe some vulcans and a melee option. The bazooka the Dreissen uses in Unicorn is not standard equipment for a Dreissen though, and I don't think we see a Dreissen use one at all in ZZ itself across a dozen or more episodes. Instead it mostly relies on a beam rifle to fire from Dodais and/or the triple beam cannons built into the arms. Both of which take a lot more advantage of the unit's speed, and both of which it's far more successful with because of it (even against protagonists). I am not criticizing bazookas full stop; I am saying bazookas are a bad primary weapon for the Dom specifically, because (a) the Dom (and Rick Dom) are primarily meant for mobile suit on mobile suit combat, and most pilots just won't have as much success with a bazooka in that field as they do a rifle or whatever and because (b), a bazooka is going to be a lot more limited in it's ammunition than a rifle/cannon. They normally pack 5 to 10 shots, and once those are gone, the Dom specifically is basically down to no ranged weapons (none worth speaking of, anyway) and only packing a heat saber. Any other weapon is optional, and often not carried at all. Which is not good design by Zeon. It does have a scattering beam cannon, but that has never been portrayed as anything more than a fancy flashlight that might blind an enemy pilot for a second or so but that's about it. I don't think it's ever been shown causing actual damage. The Dom Tropens and Rick Dom IIs in 0083 often end up using a machine gun as the primary weapon instead of the bazooka. Or at least, we see several models of both that have no bazooka in evidence, and some that have the machine gun as well as the bazooka. The Rick Dias' bazooka is an optional weapon, while it's main weapons are the beam pistols. The same is generally true of the Dreissen, as above. A bazooka is a good secondary weapon, especially when attacking a fortification or other ships; but is not a great primary weapon, especially against nimble targets, and even protagonists or named antagonists often miss with them when fighting other mobile suits. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 13:12
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How many on screen kills do GMs have? What about gelgoogs? What are the mook suit kill numbers we're comparing the dom against?
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Apr 21, 2022 14:35
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