Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

It was a well known concern after our presence in SE Asia, and it still took a public scandal to consider the risk a few decades later in the GWOT.

Again, nowhere near the same level of terrible. But negligence is a bad excuse for dead children.

I don't think American cluster bombs looked like humanitarian rations in Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia. I'm pretty sure the yellow casings were to try to reduce the unintended UXO casualty problem, which led into "OOPS LOOKS LIKE FOOD" problem.

And just to be clear, this is not an excuse or apologia for dead children. I have to spell this out so that you understand this.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:26

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:52

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006; Can't post for 22 hours!

A.o.D. posted:

I don't think American cluster bombs looked like humanitarian rations in Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia. I'm pretty sure the yellow casings were to try to reduce the unintended UXO casualty problem, which led into "OOPS LOOKS LIKE FOOD" problem.

And just to be clear, this is not an excuse or apologia for dead children. I have to spell this out so that you understand this.

The attitude of "mistakes were made, we'll try do to better in the future" when there are horrific consequences for the people harmed by those mistakes is troubling. Were there ever any consequence for the people who made the design decisions that ended up putting food and UXO in the same color packaging with foreign lettering?

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:31

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Does it count if we just didn't care?

Well we did fix it. Russia probably would change it too�to look a Christmas present.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:32

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

If you guys really want to argue about who/how kills kids more effectively, there's always Yemen policy to look at.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:33

Naked Bear: Apr 15, 2007; Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!

Spoggerific posted:

Russia didn't even try and float it off to the corner of the map?

oh my god lmao

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:34

Cimber: Feb 3, 2014

A.o.D. posted:

I can see a chain of events where a defense contractor and a procurement board insist on a bright, easily visible color to try to reduce UXO casualties from cluster munitions that just happens to have the same chain of decisions made by the guys designing air dropped humanitarian rations, and those two groups never once communicate. These decisions could be made years apart and no one would find out until you had Team America: World Police drop both in the same place because we're a loving joke of a nation.

And per wiki, in 2003 the pentagon realized there was a problem and changed the color of food packages.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:35

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

The attitude of "mistakes were made, we'll try do to better in the future" when there are horrific consequences for the people harmed by those mistakes is troubling. Were there ever any consequence for the people who made the design decisions that ended up putting food and UXO in the same color packaging with foreign lettering?

Probably not! It's not an "aww shucks" kind of problem but that's how it was handled. I don't understand why you're slapfighting over it though because A.o.D. has no ability to go back and retroactively punish the groups of people who decided that painting submunitions high vis yellow, and the unrelated group who decided that wrapping rations in yellow packaging was a good idea.

Getting back on topic, Russians putting bombs in toys is entirely within their playbook and something they were known for doing in the Afghanistan war, then in both Chechen wars and now again here. The US UXO/HDR debacle was more likely not intentional "Haha we want to kill civilians because cruelty is the point" on the part of weapons designers.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:45

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

orange juche posted:

Probably not! It's not an "aww shucks" kind of problem but that's how it was handled. I don't understand why you're slapfighting over it though because A.o.D. has no ability to go back and retroactively punish the groups of people who decided that painting submunitions high vis yellow, and the unrelated group who decided that wrapping rations in yellow packaging was a good idea.

Getting back on topic, Russians putting bombs in toys is entirely within their playbook and something they were known for doing in the Afghanistan war, then in both Chechen wars and now again here. The US UXO/HDR debacle was more likely not intentional "Haha we want to kill civilians because cruelty is the point" on the part of weapons designers.

The real villain is NATO, because it's their fault Russia needs to blow up kids.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:46

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

The real villain is NATO, because it's their fault Russia needs to blow up kids.

If only NATO had not forced Russia to de-Nazify Ukraine, Ukrainian kids would not be finding teddy bears with 40mm grenade rounds inside.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:49

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006; Can't post for 22 hours!

orange juche posted:

If only NATO had not forced Russia to de-Nazify Ukraine, Ukrainian kids would not be finding teddy bears with 40mm grenade rounds inside.

More than one thing can be bad at the same time.

The original question was "have other countries targeted children with booby traps?". And unfortunately the US created a similar situation through a series of poor decisions. The intent makes a difference, but results are results.

In no way is this an excuse for the Russian actions, since that apparently has to be repeated. They are in no way related other than sharing a set of similar circumstances.

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Apr 23, 2022

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:52

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

More than one thing can be made at the same time.

The original question was "have other countries targeted children with booby traps?". And unfortunately the US created a similar situation through a series of poor decisions. The intent makes a difference, but results are results.

In no way is this an excuse for the Russian actions, since that apparently has to be repeated.

How loving stupid are you?

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:54

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

More than one thing can be made at the same time.

The original question was "have other countries targeted children with booby traps?". And unfortunately the US created a similar situation through a series of poor decisions. The intent makes a difference, but results are results.

In no way is this an excuse for the Russian actions, since that apparently has to be repeated.

There's a couple of key words here I'd like to draw your attention to.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:55

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

We never made bombs into toys. We did have plenty of troops handing out pork MREs to unsuspecting muslims, though.

That's how we gave the locals their own bombing runs.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:56

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

We never made bombs into toys. We did have plenty of troops handing out pork MREs to unsuspecting muslims, though.

That's how we gave the locals their own bombing runs.

I made a wheezing noise after reading this.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 03:59

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

More than one thing can be made at the same time.

The original question was "have other countries targeted children with booby traps?". And unfortunately the US created a similar situation through a series of poor decisions. The intent makes a difference, but results are results.

In no way is this an excuse for the Russian actions, since that apparently has to be repeated.

Have other countries targeted children with booby traps? Not any major conflicts, but I'm sure booby traps for children have been used as a terror weapon. Not by NATO/Western forces that I know of, but I could see a military force which placed no value on civilian lives whatsoever targetting children as a method to force capitulation. It's sick and hosed up from my frame of mind, but if you had no moral scruples, then sure.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Apr 23, 2022

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:06

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A.o.D. posted:

I made a wheezing noise after reading this.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:07

Soul Dentist: Mar 17, 2009

I think, personally, that it's messed up that each and every one of you are personally and vociferously defending the unilateral use of explosives designed to kill children. hosed up y'all. I think it's actually bad.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:13

Farking Bastage: Sep 22, 2007; Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengos!

GD_American posted:

There�s nothing any decent American needs on the east shore of that bridge.

Also, the last time they restored the Alabama they pretty much permanently installed it in dock. It�s roughly as seaworthy as the Moskva now.

No kidding. The Top Gear episode with GAY SEX RULES on a pink spray painted cadillac happened right around there.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:15

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

We never made bombs into toys. We did have plenty of troops handing out pork MREs to unsuspecting muslims, though.

That's how we gave the locals their own bombing runs.

lmao (un)holy poo poo

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:16

Farking Bastage: Sep 22, 2007; Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengos!

Spoggerific posted:

Russia didn't even try and float it off to the corner of the map?

LMAO. I just remember right about the time I grinded the RU cruisers to Moskva that fucker had been power crept into the current state of her.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:19

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

We never made bombs into toys. We did have plenty of troops handing out pork MREs to unsuspecting muslims, though.

That's how we gave the locals their own bombing runs.

On one hand I'd hope that the fucksticks who did it got hosed up by their chain of command, but no, they probably got a loving attaboy and a clap on the back because people in the military are hosed up like that, we're all a bunch of broke-brained fucks.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:22

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

Fortunately islam is forgiving of those that were tricked into eating pork, or to avoid starvation.

Can't forget the bacon bullet companies though, that was evil on a particularly awful scale, spiritually. Not to mention incredibly dumb.

That poo poo wasn't issue or standard though. But I wouldn't doubt some rear end in a top hat managed to bring some in, like a contractor or a seal.

CRUSTY MINGE fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Apr 23, 2022

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:28

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

The kind of people who pull poo poo like that usually have a unit climate that makes them think they will get congratulated for doing poo poo like that.

The only MRE I ever ate was spicy penne pasta, and it wasn't bad.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:32

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Hot take: Most MREs are fine. The pork patty thing in briny water kinda sucked, not sure if it still exists.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:36

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

We never made bombs into toys. We did have plenty of troops handing out pork MREs to unsuspecting muslims, though.

That's how we gave the locals their own bombing runs.

think we got our post of the month

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:38

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

I broke some dumb Grunt's heart with that.

"I'm giving them Jamaican Pork Chop! They'll love it! So will Allah!"

"Pork isn't an automatic Indulgence to Hell, dude. Allah allows them to break rules to survive. It also doesn't count if they don't know. Do you know anything about Islam?"

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:39

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

Hot take: Most MREs are fine. The pork patty thing in briny water kinda sucked, not sure if it still exists.

Pork "rib" does not exist any more, they got rid of it, along with bland poo poo like Chicken Tetrazzini, also by and large at this point most MREs are at a minimum edible, if not exactly high class eating. 21 years of foreverwar means you have lots of feedback on what is good and what sucks about your field rations.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:40

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

bulletsponge13 posted:

I broke some dumb Grunt's heart with that.

"I'm giving them Jamaican Pork Chop! They'll love it! So will Allah!"

"Pork isn't an automatic Indulgence to Hell, dude. Allah allows them to break rules to survive. It also doesn't count if they don't know. Do you know anything about Islam?"

�I am loving stupid so no. I couldn�t tell you what an Abrahamic religion is, and would probably need a great deal of coaching to tell you who Abraham was. My God hates queers and loves increasing shareholder value.�

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:41

Naked Bear: Apr 15, 2007; Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!

orange juche posted:

Pork "rib" does not exist any more, they got rid of it, along with bland poo poo like Chicken Tetrazzini, also by and large at this point most MREs are at a minimum edible, if not exactly high class eating. 21 years of foreverwar means you have lots of feedback on what is good and what sucks about your field rations.

Yeah, but they got rid of sloppy joe, which was the perfect way to stink up the inside of your truck. :argh:

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:46

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

Yeah, most MREs are fine. We might be our own brand of evil, but we don't hand out mickey mouses stuffed with polyester and plastique.

I'm pretty sure we're past the days of pork MREs anyhow. Now they can just make a pork patty from a plant or whatever. Does make me wonder if muslims can eat plant based pork products though. And I guess the same for jewish people.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:46

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Casimir Radon posted:

“I am loving stupid so no. I couldn’t tell you what an Abrahamic religion is, and would probably need a great deal of coaching to tell you who Abraham was. My God hates queers and loves increasing shareholder value.”

Pretty much.

It's weird- my team leader was a weirdo NPR liberal who laughed like a loving psychopath recounting a Seagull murder.

My PSG was a Fox News Cold War dickhead who lost his loving mind when I jokingly called my buddy a communist for not sharing M&Ms or some other dumb poo poo.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:46

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

Fortunately islam is forgiving of those that were tricked into eating pork, or to avoid starvation.

Can't forget the bacon bullet companies though, that was evil on a particularly awful scale, spiritually. Not to mention incredibly dumb.

That poo poo wasn't issue or standard though. But I wouldn't doubt some rear end in a top hat managed to bring some in, like a contractor or a seal.

this is so dumb, it only makes sense if you assume Muslims are like, vampires or something

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:48

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

orange juche posted:

21 years of foreverwar means you have lots of feedback on what is good and what sucks about your field rations.

Yeah, every MRE is pretty fine now; I don�t bother rooting through the box anymore.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:49

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

StandardVC10 posted:

this is so dumb, it only makes sense if you assume Muslims are like, vampires or something

Never been to a rural area?

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:52

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

StandardVC10 posted:

this is so dumb, it only makes sense if you assume Muslims are like, vampires or something

The target demographic isn't exactly the most intelligent. 'Merica.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:53

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

The kind of dumbfuck who buys something like that doesn�t realize that their own ideology isn�t that far off of Al Qaeda/Daesh/Taliban.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 04:59

PookBear: Nov 1, 2008

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

More than one thing can be bad at the same time.

The original question was "have other countries targeted children with booby traps?". And unfortunately the US created a similar situation through a series of poor decisions. The intent makes a difference, but results are results.

In no way is this an excuse for the Russian actions, since that apparently has to be repeated. They are in no way related other than sharing a set of similar circumstances.

what the gently caress are you trying to say

# ? Apr 23, 2022 05:38