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Orange DeviI posted:I have lots of friends whom I play wizard of legend and other co-op action roguelikes with metaprogression with they're all just out of frame, laughing about prescriptivists too
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May 2, 2022 21:04
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All I'm doing is telling you how to think about definitions because you're being prescriptivist. When I play the co-op action roguelike with metaprogression Risk of Rain 2, the only relevant distinctions from Rogue are that you 1) can't play it with only a mouse, and 2) that it's not turn based. For example Rift Wizard is almost exactly like Rogue. Calling it only 'like' Rogue would be an understatement. Something like Synthetic is basically Rogue but not turn based, but you could argue that a real time game is just a turn based game with zero duration turns
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May 2, 2022 21:08
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If you're going to be that pedantic then literally every game is turn based with zero duration turns because that's how computers work.
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May 2, 2022 21:10
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We've already lost the naming battle anyway, just be happy the genre didn't go the MOBA way. Right now the most convenient tags for roguelikes/lites are the turn-based and single player one. Generally the old school ones are turn based and don't include co-op, which is how you filter out a lot of the more actiony games. However, those more actiony games are pretty much impossible to sort through due to Steam's tagging system. That ORX game, for example, is something I legit couldn't find before you linked it in here.
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May 2, 2022 21:13
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cock hero flux posted:the primary reason for sticking to a strict definition is that by broadening it to this extent you include what are essentially several completely different genres of games. A strict definition roguelike and something like Risk of Rain share almost nothing in common. Someone who likes say, DCSS, isn't any more likely to enjoy Risk of Rain than they are to enjoy Gran Turismo or Titanfall. There is virtually no shared DNA between them, and a term that includes both of them isn't useful. the 'traditional roguelike' tag on steam is much more refined but not great. the community tagging system is sort of a mess. nrook posted:a “roguelite” is a game from the lineage of spelunky, a game that is not a roguelike but is a game of a different genre that is heavily influenced by roguelikes. nowadays roguelites are probably mostly influenced by other roguelites but derek yu definitely played games like nethack or shiren. if I were as widely held in contempt as orange devil is I would probably not post about how other people have no friends orange devil does not post in this thread
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May 2, 2022 21:21
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rogue like this, rogue like that, and it's always about what rogue likes and never me!
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May 2, 2022 22:32
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i'm going to make the first roguelove, that isn't afraid of commitment
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May 2, 2022 22:39
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Thief was a game in which you played as a rogue and Dishonored is heavily influenced by Thief, ergo, Dishonored is a roguelike
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May 2, 2022 22:49
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Pokemon red is a rougelike
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May 2, 2022 23:01
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Orange DeviI posted:Pokemon red is a rougelike 
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May 2, 2022 23:08
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cock hero flux posted:Someone who likes say, DCSS, isn't any more likely to enjoy Risk of Rain I am one of the ones into the games for their "build some functional character based on what you find in the procedurally generated loot" aspects, though I can't remember if RoR has that in the way RoR2 does. e: I guess the point is people like roguelikes for different reasons so depending on why they like DCSS, DCSS people may be more likely to like Binding of Isaac than some other turn based tactics game. Baby T. Love fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 2, 2022 |
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May 2, 2022 23:11
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deep dish peat moss posted:I can excuse confusion about roguelite/roguelikes in the Going Rogue sale but what I can't excuse is also including Soulslikes and Metroidvanias and then literally not featuring a single traditional roguelike in the sale at all Seconding this, it's very disappointing. Hollow Knight is also a souls-like, apparently? Tags and phrases exist to mean things, and language may be a living thing yadda yadda but it's sure as hell weird to have a festival about a certain thing and the thing itself is notably absent. It's not like Steam doesn't have actual RLs that have been and for years and occasionally go on sale, so why aren't they in here?
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May 2, 2022 23:21
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I am pretty sure that is the only game featured in the storefront pages for the sale that I would personally consider a "roguelike"
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The tldr is that steam outsourced tagging to the userbase with predictable results.
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May 2, 2022 23:23
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How do people feel about Rogue Fable III? Seems like one of the few proper traditional roguelikes on sale that I haven't already played. I guess there's Soulash too, but it looked kinda tedious.
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May 3, 2022 00:34
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I dig it. Allegedly it can be chain ran for wins. I got about 60 hours out of it. It’s nice each full run is like 80ish minutes and speed runners can knock it out in like 7.
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May 3, 2022 00:53
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Serephina posted:Seconding this, it's very disappointing. Hollow Knight is also a souls-like, apparently? hollow knight is extremely souls-like aesthetically even if it only pays lip service to souls' gameplay
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May 3, 2022 01:00
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FuzzySlippers posted:How do people feel about Rogue Fable III? Seems like one of the few proper traditional roguelikes on sale that I haven't already played. I guess there's Soulash too, but it looked kinda tedious. I liked it enough to play for around 20 hours and snag wins on almost every class. It's solid and well-designed but since it's designed around short runs it's pretty easy to "solve", there's not a whole lot of depth to it.
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May 3, 2022 01:34
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At the risk of running a derail (lmk if I should just use PMs), Dark Souls did not invent nor popularize Noir, and the HK devs & artist have been very clear about their influences. Lots of poo poo gets tagged as souls-like for the most tenuous of reasons and I'm pretty sure its just fans of the series seeing things that they like elsewhere, such as "protagonist uses a sword" or whatnot.
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May 3, 2022 01:35
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Orange DeviI posted:Pokemon red is a rougelike
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May 3, 2022 01:43
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I think Elden Ring is tagged Traditional Roguelike. Almost everything is tagged RPG. They should just only let the developers tag it with a fairly low limit on the number of tags. That'll keep shovelware devs from tagging their games as everything and devs will want to focus their tags on the most appropriate. This seems to be how Itch does it (though I've never had anything popular enough on itch for anyone to bother tagging it if it's possible for users lol)
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May 3, 2022 01:52
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FuzzySlippers posted:I think Elden Ring is tagged Traditional Roguelike. Almost everything is tagged RPG. You used to be able to tag games with literally anything so for a while we had starbound or some similar mess tagged things like "diva dev" and "makes derek smart look sane"
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May 3, 2022 02:41
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it sucks for people who like horror because every single bad game on steam gets the "psychological horror" tag as a joke
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May 3, 2022 03:07
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Orange DeviI posted:Pokemon red is a rougelike alright listen, fucker,
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May 3, 2022 03:10
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nrook posted:a “roguelite” is a game from the lineage of spelunky *Crimsonland
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May 3, 2022 04:27
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Angry Diplomat posted:Thief was a game in which you played as a rogue and Dishonored is heavily influenced by Thief, ergo, Dishonored is a roguelike When you die you permanently lose all progress since your last quicksave, but gain metaprogression in the form of knowing where the enemies are. Checks out. I've been playing a lot of Wingspan the past two weeks and while doing some achievement hunting I definitely muttered to myself a few times how "this run wasn't very productive", which probably says something about how jumbled up the terminology is at this point, at least in my own brain. Although, it is turn-based, when you lose you start a new game, and your starting hand is randomized and the deck shuffled each time, so...?? You also roleplay a wildlife reserve manager. Sounds pretty traditional.
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May 3, 2022 05:40
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Serephina posted:At the risk of running a derail (lmk if I should just use PMs), Dark Souls did not invent nor popularize Noir, and the HK devs & artist have been very clear about their influences. Lots of poo poo gets tagged as souls-like for the most tenuous of reasons and I'm pretty sure its just fans of the series seeing things that they like elsewhere, such as "protagonist uses a sword" or whatnot. It's probably losing your currency when you die and getting one chance at making a successful corpse run to get it back. Which to continue the derail, it's kind of funny that's become code for punishing/difficult games when you still keep the majority of your progress after death. Like, you should see what happens when you die in Super Metroid! Hope you saved!
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May 3, 2022 05:56
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Drone Incognito posted:Rogue like, it's like rogue and it's probably a turn based RPG game. My first Revita impression: I hate the game pad’s default control scheme. In the options menu they strongly warn you against changing it. Would I actually regret changing the controls to something more familiar, using ABXY to jump, dash, etc? Or should I just get over it and hammer at it until I develop the muscle memory, where kind of like hjklbyun it’s worth the pain of adjusting to?
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May 3, 2022 07:00
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It's not gonna make the game unplayable or anything if you switch to using face buttons, but even though it took me a while to get used to the default scheme it's very nice having everything on the triggers and never having to take your finger off of the right stick. I think it's enough of an advantage that it's worth trying a few runs with the default to see if it clicks.
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May 3, 2022 07:23
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Hollow Knight is heavily inspired by Dark Souls and its influences show both in aesthetics and gameplay. To say otherwise would be ridiculous and wilfully blind. It's as much a souls-like as Fallen Order.
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May 3, 2022 08:19
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LordSloth posted:My first Revita impression: I hate the game pad’s default control scheme. In the options menu they strongly warn you against changing it. Would I actually regret changing the controls to something more familiar, using ABXY to jump, dash, etc? Or should I just get over it and hammer at it until I develop the muscle memory, where kind of like hjklbyun it’s worth the pain of adjusting to? I turned on the "shoot without pressing a separate button by just turning the right stick" & switched jump to left trigger, dash to right. Feels a lot better to me.
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May 3, 2022 09:08
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fez_machine posted:Hollow Knight is heavily inspired by Dark Souls and its influences show both in aesthetics and gameplay. To say otherwise would be ridiculous and wilfully blind. It's as much a souls-like as Fallen Order.
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May 3, 2022 09:42
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goferchan posted:It's probably losing your currency when you die and getting one chance at making a successful corpse run to get it back. also spelunking through the ruins of a grand and fallen kingdom to piece together the cause of its demise, and having terse one-sided conversations with the scant handful of things that don’t aim to swiftly kill you, weighing the benefits of checkpoints against the fact that they respawn enemies on use, etc “Bug Souls” was practically the unofficial subtitle
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May 3, 2022 12:40
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Oxxidation posted:also spelunking through the ruins of a grand and fallen kingdom to piece together the cause of its demise, and having terse one-sided conversations with the scant handful of things that don’t aim to swiftly kill you, weighing the benefits of checkpoints against the fact that they respawn enemies on use, etc Oh yeah I agree with you and fez_machine above that that there are a lot of clear influences in Hollow Knight. Just that the death mechanic in particular is probably what gets a game the "soulslike" label in people's minds
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May 3, 2022 13:18
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Dropbear posted:I turned on the "shoot without pressing a separate button by just turning the right stick" & switched jump to left trigger, dash to right. Feels a lot better to me. I should give that fire-by-aiming setting a try. I'm worried it would mess me up with some of the guns though, there's a sniper rifle that particularly would be hard. Also re: Revita, has anyone else gotten pretty deep into progression? I'm on Shard 12 now I think, currently trying to unlock all of the alt-guns. Some of the mechanics on them are pretty wild. -- also still have quite a few secrets to clean up. A couple of them aren't too hard but go against my usual playstyle so much (like "offer 3 hearts to each area's statue") that I keep putting them off.
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May 3, 2022 13:23
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edit: I'm gonna stop with the derail, its doing my head in.
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May 3, 2022 13:31
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Jack Trades posted:
Why would you do this?
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May 3, 2022 14:30
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https://twitter.com/playunexplored/status/1521173150582648833?s=21&t=PNtVcFuX8IsO_MEiIM4xNg I picked this up when it was very early on in EA and thought the bones of the game were amazing but it still needed a lot of touching up. Looking forward to checking it out again.
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May 3, 2022 15:21
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goferchan posted:https://twitter.com/playunexplored/status/1521173150582648833?s=21&t=PNtVcFuX8IsO_MEiIM4xNg I played it recently and it was very buggy to the point of being unplayable, so fingers crossed there's some hefty patching going on for release.
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May 3, 2022 15:31
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I bought it for cheap when it was on sale on EGS, so I'm hopeful it will be a good game.
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May 3, 2022 16:28
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LordSloth posted:My first Revita impression: I hate the game pad’s default control scheme. In the options menu they strongly warn you against changing it. Would I actually regret changing the controls to something more familiar, using ABXY to jump, dash, etc? Or should I just get over it and hammer at it until I develop the muscle memory, where kind of like hjklbyun it’s worth the pain of adjusting to? Oddly enough this is the one game of this style that I use a mouse and keyboard for rather than a controller. If that's an option I can recommend it. Only issue I ran into with thos setup was accidently starting my runs by pressing E instead of selecting the tickets with space bar.
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May 3, 2022 16:53
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