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Mellow Seas posted:Yes. Vote for Democrats. loving Jesus Christ. You guys think this is some kind of complicated 3D chess match. JUST VOTE FOR THE PARTY THAT DOESN'T OPENLY WANT TO BAN ABORTION. How, exactly, will that fix the Republicans blocking and dismantling all the social gains of the last seventy years with their stolen court seats?
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May 3, 2022 15:34
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HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH You loving clowns (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2022 15:36
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Mellow Seas posted:If you don't like Republican appointed judges overturning human rights and still don't see why you have to vote for Democrats, which literally the only thing that keeps Republicans out of power, then you're the biggest loving idiot in the world and should get hosed, forever, end of discussion, sorry. we gave the democrats a trifecta in the federal government. They are the strongest they have been in twelve years. they are already saying they will not pass legislation to protect abortion rights. we held up our part of the bargain. they are not holding up theirs. as Joe Manchin just finished teaching you with the death knell of Build Back Better, preemptively surrendering to a bad faith actor is not the path to getting what you want.
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May 3, 2022 15:36
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Mellow Seas posted:Eat poo poo, you're so loving stupid, Jesus Christ. Like, you know you're way, way, way stupider than the other posters here, right? Does that not bother you? Turn on your monitor
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May 3, 2022 15:37
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:we gave the democrats a trifecta in the federal government. They are the strongest they have been in twelve years. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:some people do not respond well to bullying, and then there are the people whose reaction to being told "your sister deserved to die poor, jack" is "yes sir mister president sir, my bloodline is filth undeserving of life." Drink bleach fuckface.
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May 3, 2022 15:37
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Mellow Seas posted:HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH Democrats have had ample opportunity to stop what's happening and they haven't bothered. Sorry, OP.
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May 3, 2022 15:37
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Not that specific question. But, I found a poll from a few years ago that said that 78% of pro-life people don't think birth control is immoral. That doesn't mean they support free birth control for kids or in general, though. Just seems to me like free contraception is, at a minimum a middle ground and meeting point that both sides of this issue could agree on. Hoping for fewer unwanted pregnancies? Well, thankfully, there IS a solution. Liberal distribution of birth control and condoms obviously reduces the number of abortions. I'm just curious how much of the crowd that wants Roe overturned are also the same ones that preach abstinence or waiting until marriage. So that's about 1 in 4 which sounds about right to me. Glad it's not higher.
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May 3, 2022 15:37
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Mellow Seas posted:HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH Christine Pelosi? That you? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2022 15:38
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Arist posted:I'm telling you now, the right does not care about any of that. Their only goal is energizing their base with wanton cruelty, and this is how they do that. To reinforce this point, the moment Disney said even the most milquetoast thing to criticize the Florida Republicans in their hour of victory, the state government took immediate vengeance and voted to dissolve the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Yes, as it turns out the whole situation is far more complicated than they thought. Yes, they may have saddled one county with enormous debt and forced another into bankruptcy. Yes, they have zero plan for dealing with any of the consequences. They don't care. They've spent (from their perspective) a decade or two on the back foot in the culture war. Now that they have fresh momentum and they've elected a new generation of politicians who don't know or understand any of the old polite excuses for not doing things, they will do literally anything and stampede over literally any objection so long as they have the power to do so.
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May 3, 2022 15:39
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Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season!
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May 3, 2022 15:39
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Mellow Seas posted:HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2022 15:39
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Like, I'm pro-voting. I don't think it should be the only thing you do, but I think people should vote. I'm not super happy about it but I did vote for these people, but then they won and the bad poo poo is still happening and I'm still getting yelled at by people who've taken it upon themselves to cheerlead the Democrats, so at some point I can't begrudge people who give up on electoralism. That's just a rational response.
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May 3, 2022 15:40
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I've done repro rights work for a decade so I'm pretty loving bummed but don't take it out on posters, maybe?
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May 3, 2022 15:40
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Harold Fjord posted:I'd like to suggest that if you think getting people to vote for Democrats is as important as you say, you work on your rhetorical techniques for convincing them. The endless haranguing is not persuasive and is in fact a huge turnoff! This is upsetting stuff, but your feelings aren't any more valid than the way the rest of us feel about capitalism generally. I suggest reading Omelas for some additional perspective. Are you talking about the famous sci-fi short story where they use a dirty sad baby to power a utopia or the famous political science book about the weakness of parliamentary systems in South America? I'm not really seeing the connection either way.
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May 3, 2022 15:41
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes. Vote for Democrats. loving Jesus Christ. You guys think this is some kind of complicated 3D chess match. JUST VOTE FOR THE PARTY THAT DOESN'T OPENLY WANT TO BAN ABORTION. The party leadership are literally supporting an anti-choice pol against a pro-choice progressive in the primaries, right now. Meaning you can vote blue until you are blue in the face and not move the ball an inch toward the goal. What good does growing their legislative presence do if those people don't actually stand for what the 'platform'* is? * Hah! gently caress, even using that word feels dirty.
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May 3, 2022 15:41
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cat botherer posted:Meltdown May is awesome this year. You seem 100x as angry at people being pissed off at Dems than you are at a woman's right to bodily autonomy being destroyed. Both the people who did the bad thing (Republicans), and the people who refuse to help (you worthless non-voting motherfuckers) Weirdly everybody else seems mad at "DEMOCRATS" just like when literally everything else happens. It's so loving stupid. People used to have intelligent political conversations here. I'd like to thank LT2012 for attempting to be informative in between the kvetching that this is all the fault of the people who didn't do this and tried to stop it instead
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May 3, 2022 15:42
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cat botherer posted:Meltdown May is awesome this year. You seem 100x as angry at people being pissed off at Dems than you are at a woman's right to bodily autonomy being destroyed. That’s because the one is not doing the other, op
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May 3, 2022 15:42
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes. Vote for Democrats. loving Jesus Christ. You guys think this is some kind of complicated 3D chess match. JUST VOTE FOR THE PARTY THAT DOESN'T OPENLY WANT TO BAN ABORTION. Just to be clear, you're talking about the same party that is currently circling the wagons around an actual no poo poo anti-abortion representative to defend him against a pro-choice primary challenger, yes?
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May 3, 2022 15:43
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Harold Fjord posted:Do you not understand subtext? Then shamelessly voted for a $700 billion annual military budget so .001% of it could come back to her campaign coffers in kickbacks "Just can't afford it kids!"
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May 3, 2022 15:43
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Fister Roboto posted:Just to be clear, you're talking about the same party that is currently circling the wagons around an actual no poo poo anti-abortion representative to defend him against a pro-choice primary challenger, yes? a representative isn't blocking democrats from protecting abortion, two to three senators are.
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May 3, 2022 15:44
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Mellow Seas posted:I can be angry at both things Ok but you are defining "people who refuse to help" as "people who don't vote for the Democrat Party" and having a very cringe meltdown, I say as someone who also cares a lot about things and has cringy meltodwns. There are two key flaws here. One- Many people can't vote, don't have time to vote, live in places where there vote effectively does not count, in addition to the various arguments about why voting for Dems isn't enough since the Dems seem to not do enough when we do vote for them. 2- It's the party leadership itself that ever has real power to help and constantly refuses. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:a representative isn't blocking democrats from protecting abortion, two to three senators are. Doesn't matter to the point being made, at all.
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May 3, 2022 15:44
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I'm kind of done with things to melt down at these stupid loving assholes about so I can just get my loving probation already?
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May 3, 2022 15:45
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cat botherer posted:Obama promised to immediately work codify Roe vs. Wade upon entering office, and he had a filibuster-proof majority (even though you really only need 50). Never did. See also the beginning of the Clinton administration. Since you are resorting to base insults on people criticizing Dems, it sounds like you don't have much of an argument. You need 60 votes. Obama had that for 72 days in the middle of the battle over healthcare. Good luck convincing any of the Senators accused of killing grandma to now also vote on a bill codifying Roe vs Wade at the same time.
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May 3, 2022 15:46
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:a representative isn't blocking democrats from protecting abortion, two to three senators are. I'm aware of that. But it sure seems like the party should be taking every chance they can to purge anti-abortion members if they actually care about abortion rights. Like, you never know if Cuellar is going to be the guy blocking legislation in the future. Why take the risk?
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May 3, 2022 15:46
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Mellow Seas posted:Drink bleach fuckface. your preferred candidate won the election. he is in power. he has a trifecta. he has everything he told you he'd need to protect all the things you cared about. he is in charge of the one two year period per decade where the federal government is capable of resisting a decision by the Supreme Court. this is THE SITUATION your vote, and all the pragmatic sacrifices you made along the way, were for. and Joe Biden is telling you he's not gonna do poo poo. what conclusion do you draw.
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May 3, 2022 15:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's progress within the ranks of the party (which is still not actual legal progress) and not tangible progress on stopping babies from dying. They basically won no victories over and over for 20 years, then won a small victory in 1991, and then no major victory until (possibly) 2022. I agree with you that there was non-legislative progress, but we were specifically talking about a timeline for how long it should take a group achieving their stated political goals before you give up on them. That's only true looking at the progress at a national level and only in the narrow terms of legislation/judicial decisions. You're ignoring delivering things to their voters that matter consistently at the local and state level, or other "wins" like how many times they've gotten concessions from Democrats on the issue, like Obama making sure no ACA money would go to abortions, Planned Parenthood funding etc. It is a pretty bad misrepresentation to say they continued to elect people and "running their heads into walls". Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 15:50 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 15:48
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Willa Rogers posted:Yeah, good point about Manchin likely opposing the vote on infrastructure first. Suppose you're a teenager and you have a rich uncle who makes you a deal - he'll buy you any car you want, but you have to pay to maintain it. If you were sensible, you'd pick a very reliable car that won't drain your budget. But since you're an impulsive teenager (the civic equivalent being our local & state governments), you of course pick a Ferrari. The pick is super popular with everyone, but, of course, you can't even afford to change the tires. That is essentially what the infrastructure bill does. In theory, we have a massive infrastructure spending deficit. We need to repair billions of dollars worth of roads and bridges along with various other items. If the infrastructure bill only did that, it would be great. Unfortunately, that is never how it works. The bill delegates the spending of the money in such a way that every aspect of the actual spending is captured by political actors who spend money to build new infrastructure. So, instead of just spending money on repairing bridges, the highway gets a new lane. Instead of maintaining the sewer system it already has, a rural county gets a grant for an expanded sewer system. And we all want these things, but there is no ongoing commitment to actually fund the maintenance of that infrastructure. Who is stuck with the bill? In 20 years, the little rural county with the expanded sewer system now has an aging sewer system that it can't afford to maintain. The state has to spend more money maintaining new lanes on its highways that it doesn't need. The same pot of money has to chase an ever-larger amount of infrastructure. Fundamentally, the bill encourages overbuilding in places where we don't new infrastructure - think "bridge to nowhere." Infrastructure spending is good, but it has to be smart and targeted or you end up putting yourself in a worse position than where you started. I'm reminded of the City of Omaha, which was overbuilt to such an extent that it had to start tearing up paved streets and replace them with dirt roads. Problem solved for the city, but sucks for all the people who relied on those streets. Those people are abandoned because of short-term thinking, which is exactly what the infrastructure bill encourages. So in 20 years, the reward we will get for spending all that money to fix our infrastructure is needing even more money to fix our infrastructure, except this time the situation will be more dire than before. Concerned Citizen fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 15:48
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:a representative isn't blocking democrats from protecting abortion, two to three senators are. The actual point is that the party is completely fine with anti abortion support within its membership, loving Pelosi herself even said so. Fister Roboto posted:I'm aware of that. But it sure seems like the party should be taking every chance they can to purge anti-abortion members if they actually care about abortion rights. Like, you never know if Cuellar is going to be the guy blocking legislation in the future. Why take the risk? Otherwise they'd be doing this, as well as purging other regressive garbage like Manchin. the yeti fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 15:48
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Mellow Seas posted:HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH try voting
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May 3, 2022 15:48
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BiggerBoat posted:
Not to be a downer on an already tense day, but if the party decides to double down and go along that road, they already have the machinery ready, so it would take far less than the 40+ years it took to erode abortion rights.
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May 3, 2022 15:48
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Nucleic Acids posted:So, in other words, they’re going to do gently caress all about it then. I don't think it says anything about doing "gently caress all"? It does, however, make the point that legislative action at all levels of government requires a sufficient number of people supporting that action to be elected. Which is a very true statement. It's not really a novel or interesting statement, mind you, but it's hard to see where unilateral executive action would fit into something like this. Mellow Seas posted:Eat poo poo, you're so loving stupid, Jesus Christ. Like, you know you're way, way, way stupider than the other posters here, right? Does that not bother you? Mellow Seas posted:Drink bleach fuckface. If you're going to just hurl insults and abuse at people as a way of coping with bad political news, can you go do that on Twitter rather than here? Or even better, just loving log off. The fact that the GOP is a bunch of shitheads doesn't justify going off on people like this, no matter how annoying you think folks are here. If this thread is getting you this tilted, it might be best to back out of it for a while. We all know that yelling at each other has no actual impact on anything and we're all just trading words for fun or to vent, but you're being a bit too much of an rear end in a top hat right now.
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May 3, 2022 15:49
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm aware of that. But it sure seems like the party should be taking every chance they can to purge anti-abortion members if they actually care about abortion rights. Like, you never know if Cuellar is going to be the guy blocking legislation in the future. Why take the risk? And not electing presidents whose support for women's rights is perfunctory at best
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May 3, 2022 15:49
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TyrantWD posted:You need 60 votes. Obama had that for 72 days in the middle of the battle over healthcare. Good luck convincing any of the Senators accused of killing grandma to now also vote on a bill codifying Roe vs Wade at the same time.
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May 3, 2022 15:50
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I voted. Now what?
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May 3, 2022 15:51
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's progress within the ranks of the party (which is still not actual legal progress) and not tangible progress on stopping babies from dying. They basically won no victories over and over for 20 years, then won a small victory in 1991, and then no major victory until (possibly) 2022. I agree with you that there was non-legislative progress, but we were specifically talking about a timeline for how long it should take a group achieving their stated political goals before you give up on them. Getting virtually the entire party on board is a victory though as we're seeing now because Dems don't have that and therefore can't do anything legislatively They also had more victories between 1991 and 2022 chip-chip-chipping away at abortion rights: the federal partial birth abortion ban, bunch of roadblocks for women like mandatory ultrasounds, laws loving with abortion clinics and hounding them to close until there were only a couple in most Southern states, laws that made it functionally impossible for them to operate like requiring them to get admitting privileges to a hospital then banning public hospitals from granting admitting privileges to abortion doctors, state laws criminalizing abortions and miscarriages, the anti-choice stuff in Obamacare, the Hobby Lobby decision, Texas' abortion bounty law getting upheld last year...
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May 3, 2022 15:51
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm aware of that. But it sure seems like the party should be taking every chance they can to purge anti-abortion members if they actually care about abortion rights. Why not kick Joe Manchin out of the party at the same time?
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May 3, 2022 15:54
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SKULL.GIF posted:I voted. Now what? Now you get the privilege of donating money to politicians who are wealthier than you will ever be. Feeling empowered by democracy yet?
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May 3, 2022 15:54
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Harold Fjord posted:Doesn't matter to the point being made, at all. Fister Roboto posted:I'm aware of that. But it sure seems like the party should be taking every chance they can to purge anti-abortion members if they actually care about abortion rights. Like, you never know if Cuellar is going to be the guy blocking legislation in the future. Why take the risk? Again, a Texas representative isn't the problem. The problem is in the senate. The house has already passed abortion rights bills that the senate can pass at any time. Democrats aren't going to drive out members of their party that aren't pro-choice (much to our chagrin) because they generally believe in big tent politics. So again, saying Democrats are the problem in the same manner that saying People are the problem and you might as well not vote for people. Meanwhile, state democrats in places like CO are passing protections, and the governor is saying he will make sure the state is a haven for the sea of red around us. Honestly, it feels more and more like the national Democrats need someone like Jared Polis to pull them out of whatever the hell their doing right now. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 15:54
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Mellow Seas posted:No they didn't. You're loving stupid. Vote for Democrats, idiot. Yeah I guess Obama never had a majority that could have codified it, or nuked the filibuster then codified it.
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May 3, 2022 15:54
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Mellow Seas posted:If you don't like Republican appointed judges overturning human rights and still don't see why you have to vote for Democrats, which is literally the only thing that keeps Republicans out of power, then you're the biggest loving idiot in the world and should get hosed, forever, end of discussion, sorry. Essentially this, yes. Voting takes maybe an hour or two of your time once a year at the most, and once every four years at the very least. Any words or thoughts dedicated to not doing this are little more than mental masturbation or a rationalization to do nothing in order to feel superior to people on the internet. If that's important to (the royal) you, then have at it! But (again, the royal) you don't get to claim moral superiority. "Go vote!  " you say. Well, yes, unironically. Because besides voting or lobbying, your only other legal options are:
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May 3, 2022 15:58
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